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pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 06:00 PM Dec 2013

Bitcoin lawsuit shakes the industry.

My advice? Don't get bit.


http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/a-bitcoin-lawsuit-shakes-the-industry.html?cid=ps01902money

Mt.Gox, the Tokyo-based exhange that currently handles about three-fourths of all Bitcoin trades in the world, is suing the Seattle-based Bitcoin exchange CoinLab for about $5.3 million.

Last February, the two companies announced a partnership--CoinLab would become Mt.Gox's exclusive North American agent. The deal made sense, largely because Mt.Gox couldn't serve the American market efficiently. But by May 2013, things had gone awry. CoinLab claimed Mt. Gox breached the contract. "Defendants have breached the exclusivity provisions of the Agreement by directly servicing customers in the United States and Canada since the Agreement took effect," CoinLab alleged. The exchange announed it was suing Mt.Gox for $75 million.

While that case is still pending, Mt.Gox released its countersuit earlier this week. In it, Mt.Gox argues that when the partnership was dissolved in May, CoinLab was sitting on about $12 million of its customers' money. There are 12 counterclaims in total, but the most urgent is this: Mt.Gox says that CoinLab handed over about half of the money it received from Mt.Gox customers, but is still squatting on some $5.3 million.

SNIP

Regardless of the result, the turmoil between the two exchanges is likely a roadblock to major Bitcoin adoption. In the short term, the severed partnership has essentially made it more expensive for customers to withdraw money from their Mt.Gox accounts. But the longer-term effects of the litigation will likely hit the public's perception of Bitcoin. In other words, if Bitcoin exchanges like Mt.Gox and CoinLab can't assure the public that they'll even be operational in the next year, is it really likely that large numbers of businesses--not to mention average Americans--will consider using the crypto-currency?

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Bitcoin lawsuit shakes the industry. (Original Post) pnwmom Dec 2013 OP
Bitcoins are the new tulips. TeamPooka Dec 2013 #1
That's what I've thought all along. n/t pnwmom Dec 2013 #2
Except tulip bulbs have actual value. tridim Dec 2013 #3
Not when the bubble bursts, tridim. longship Dec 2013 #4
Yes, I meant relative to bitcoin tridim Dec 2013 #5
Can one of you guys tell me what the underlying value of bitcoin is? What is it backed by? grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #6
Here's their "FAQ" It explains pretty much... nothing. SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #7
LOL, "Bitcoin is backed by mathematics." grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #8
omg Incitatus Dec 2013 #9
Yep.. You gotta love the line: SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #13
"As with all currency, bitcoin's value comes only and directly from people pnwmom Dec 2013 #17
i have a friend heavy into bitcoins.. he's a huge libertarian too. dionysus Dec 2013 #14
Yes, the libertarians think they can get around the restraints pnwmom Dec 2013 #18
yep. yet some to rush to buy gold (at an inflated price, they're fools) dionysus Dec 2013 #22
Gold is too high. pnwmom Dec 2013 #23
And there is a finite amount of gold and an infinite amount of math. grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #31
It amazes me that Libertarians that hate, fear, and distrust the Fed because Bilderbergers Ikonoklast Dec 2013 #24
It is backed by belief. n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #11
Smoke and mirrors. n/t pnwmom Dec 2013 #15
Quite literally nothing backs up bitcoin. It makes the US dollar look like a gold standard. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #27
I've asked a similar question, but it still makes little sense to me: Blue_Tires Dec 2013 #29
Douglas Adams explains IDemo Dec 2013 #10
+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #12
Awesome... SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #16
I sold my bitcoins and made my money. That bubble has been milked. Xithras Dec 2013 #19
What you did was basically like buying a lottery ticket pnwmom Dec 2013 #20
Well, my intent was to buy some pot, not play the lotto ;) Xithras Dec 2013 #28
And we should have bought Microsoft in the first year. pnwmom Dec 2013 #32
I value Bitcoins at $0.00. bobclark86 Dec 2013 #21
We still have gold reserves and gold has a tangible value, pnwmom Dec 2013 #25
It's a new kind of casino.... defacto7 Dec 2013 #26
Bitcoins are the new Nigerian prince scam. HappyMe Dec 2013 #30

longship

(40,416 posts)
4. Not when the bubble bursts, tridim.
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 06:29 PM
Dec 2013

The Dutch couldn't even eat them when the market crashed.

Of course, BitCoins don't even exist except in the arguably murky world of Internet and mathematics.

tridim

(45,358 posts)
5. Yes, I meant relative to bitcoin
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 06:35 PM
Dec 2013

Which can be worth exactly nothing at any time for any reason.

Typical of all pyramid schemes.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
7. Here's their "FAQ" It explains pretty much... nothing.
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 06:50 PM
Dec 2013
http://bitcoin.org/en/faq

It seems to me this is like a guy walking up to me on the street with a Juicyfruit wrapper and saying "This is going to become a new currency. Buy it from me".

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
8. LOL, "Bitcoin is backed by mathematics."
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 08:15 PM
Dec 2013

"Why do bitcoins have value?

Bitcoins have value because they are useful as a form of money. Bitcoin has the characteristics of money (durability, portability, fungibility, scarcity, divisibility, and recognizability) based on the properties of mathematics rather than relying on physical properties (like gold and silver) or trust in central authorities (like fiat currencies). In short, Bitcoin is backed by mathematics. With these attributes, all that is required for a form of money to hold value is trust and adoption. In the case of Bitcoin, this can be measured by its growing base of users, merchants, and startups. As with all currency, bitcoin's value comes only and directly from people willing to accept them as payment."

Well, isn't that special.... I'm sure some schemers will make money with this but in the end it's a valueless currency, it seems to me.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
13. Yep.. You gotta love the line:
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 09:22 PM
Dec 2013

"With these attributes, all that is required for a form of money to hold value is trust and adoption."

"Trust us" is their backing.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
17. "As with all currency, bitcoin's value comes only and directly from people
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 09:47 PM
Dec 2013

willing to accept them as payment."

Translation: the more people who are duped into buying them, the more they'll be worth."

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
14. i have a friend heavy into bitcoins.. he's a huge libertarian too.
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 09:43 PM
Dec 2013

it's akin to the fools who rush to buy gold...

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
18. Yes, the libertarians think they can get around the restraints
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 09:49 PM
Dec 2013

of the Federal Reserve by setting up their own monetary system based on nothing.

Good luck with that.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
23. Gold is too high.
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 11:09 PM
Dec 2013

But at least there are actual uses for gold, other than as money.

With bit coins, there is nothing.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
24. It amazes me that Libertarians that hate, fear, and distrust the Fed because Bilderbergers
Wed Dec 18, 2013, 12:14 AM
Dec 2013

Rothschilds NWO Aliens (your choice) and feel that our money is backed by "nothing" have no problem with a currency invented by person or group of people unknown who control a large fraction of it, and can literally disappear from existence with the push of a button or be rendered worthless by mistake.

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
10. Douglas Adams explains
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 08:36 PM
Dec 2013

in "The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT:
Um listen, if we could, er, for a moment move on to the subject of fiscal policy -

FORD:
”Fiscal Policy”?!

MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT:
Yes.

FORD:
How can you have money if none of you actually produce anything? It doesn’t grow on trees you know!

MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT:
You know If you would allow me to continue!

CAPTAIN:
Yes let him to continue.

MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT:
Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt leaves as legal tender, we have, of course all become immensely rich.

FORD:
No really? Really?

CROWD MEMBERS:
Yes, very good move…

MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT:
But, we have also run into a small inflation problem on account of the high level of leaf availability. Which means that I gather the current going rate has something like three major deciduous forests buying one ship’s peanut. So, um, in order to obviate this problem and effectively revalue the leaf, we are about to embark on an extensive defoliation campaign, and um, burn down all the forests. I think that’s a sensible move don’t you?

MARKETING GIRL:
That makes economic sense.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
19. I sold my bitcoins and made my money. That bubble has been milked.
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 09:56 PM
Dec 2013

Bought my Bitcoins back when they were trading just under $2, and I was doing some purchases of a certain skunky herb from a certain silky road. When police pressure started to make SR risky, I went elsewhere and forgot about them.

When the price started to escalate, I sold my remaining bitcoins (which I'd paid around $50 for) for a couple grand. I thought I did pretty well until the price KEPT escalating. If I'd held them, I could have sold them for nearly $30,000 at the peak. Still, I'm not going to complain about "only" turning $50 into a couple thousand...I did pretty well overall.

I like the concept behind bitcoin, but it's clearly vulnerable to speculation and wild swings in value. It's not something I'd put any real amount of money in.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
20. What you did was basically like buying a lottery ticket
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 10:09 PM
Dec 2013

except that the overhead won't be paying into state school funds or whatever.

And you did win!

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
28. Well, my intent was to buy some pot, not play the lotto ;)
Wed Dec 18, 2013, 01:27 PM
Dec 2013

When I bought it a few years ago, it was already known to experience wild fluctuations in value. It could be worth $1 one day, $2 the next, and 50 cents the day after that. When I bought, I was more worried about what I would probably lose than what I could make. My only real goal was to buy some pot and hash oil before the value plunged again.

The fact that the price shot through the roof shocked me as much as it did anyone else. Of course, it's also a bit depressing to realize that I bought and used many hundreds of dollars worth of Bitcoins before I decided that Silk Road was getting too risky, and I spent most of those Bitcoins on pot. If you look at the potential value of those Bitcoins, and the amount of pot I got from them, even my stingiest pinners cost me hundreds of dollars. If I'd banked those Bitcoins instead of buying pot, I'd have turned a six figure profit.

Ah well. I should have bought AAPL too. Hindsight is 20/20

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
25. We still have gold reserves and gold has a tangible value,
Wed Dec 18, 2013, 01:08 AM
Dec 2013

since it can be used to make things we need (like dental crowns) or want.

Bit coins are nothing.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
26. It's a new kind of casino....
Wed Dec 18, 2013, 02:23 AM
Dec 2013

You like betting? You like taking big or little chances for a buck? Do it. It's entertainment not economics. But don't put anything into it you can't afford to lose.

And it's not based on mathematics, it's more like arithmetic.

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