Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

WilliamPitt

(58,179 posts)
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 01:33 AM Dec 2013

I am incredibly grateful for the Duck Dynasty guy

...because the whole country is talking about it. I've had a hundred conversations about it, and each one has been an opportunity to be a teacher again, if only for a little while, and on the subject of the First Amendment and free speech.

Perfect example: a good-hearted good friend posted the following on Facebook: "I don't donate to the Salvation Army because of them being openly against gay people, but that is my choice. Free speech is allowed, the man from Duck Dynasty said things that disgusted me but I believe he has the right to say it as much as I have the right to say that I believe jesus never existed and the Bible is a fairy tale with great moral meaning. But for him to be suspended from the show I think is wrong no matter how horrible what he said was. He has the right to be an idiot and say stupid things without persecution."

To which I replied: Flip the script a bit and consider the irony of right-wingers having a meltdown over a corporation executing its rights over an employee...and remember: the First Amendment protects you from governmental interference with free speech. It does not in any way protect you from your employer if and when you fuck up in a way they deem unacceptable. Maintaining certain behavioral norms to retain employment isn't an issue of rights; it is an issue of common sense. A&E has rights, too, and they deployed those rights.

To which another person I don't know replied, "You had me up until the last sentence."

...which earned from me: "They don't have rights when it comes to the behavior of their employees? Can I come work where you work? Because if I did what he did, my ass would be streeted before the echo faded. Short version: it's not 'persecution.' It's 'consequences.' Significant difference."

My friend agreed, stating, "I agree will, I didn't really look at it that way. If I say dumb shit behind the bar and openly offend someone I would be fired as well."

...which earned my final comment in the conversation: "Exactly correct. There is a magnificently common misunderstanding of the purpose and scope of the First Amendment abroad in the land. 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.' The first word is 'Congress.' A company can do whatever it damn pleases within reason, and withing the bounds of the law, when an employee verbally steps on his meat in a way that embarrasses the company...and the only reason I keep hammering this particular nail is because that misunderstanding of the First Amendment has been stomping the terra lately like Godzilla in the aftermath of this Duck shit. It makes me want to eat my face. "

One of a hundred conversations.

My point: it's a teachable moment. Yes, it's incredibly goddam stupid that the whole country is going WHAARGARBL over a fake reality show, even as it is incredibly important that ridiculously bigoted nonsense is getting properly called out...but this controversy has shown, at least to me, that waaaaay too many people have a protein-deficient understanding of their most important right.

Be a teacher.

10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

Lint Head

(15,064 posts)
1. I had a long time friend place a positive post on Face Book regarding DD. I replied.
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 02:11 AM
Dec 2013

"Did you know that what Robertson said was not only a bigoted statement but a racist statement? I know that some people cite the Bible when they make anti homosexual statements but this guy is racist. Does the Bible say it's OK to be racist?"

My friend is white.

She replied back that she had not read his entire statement. That if she had she would not have posted what she did on FB. She has a daughter whose fiance' is black. She is not anti gay but was arguing from a free speech perspective which I disagree with also.

I was able to get her to delete the post and change her mind.

SNL had something on the News Update segment that said it all. They showed a photo of Phil Robertson and said, "Sometimes you CAN judge a book by it's cover.

I have also found that most people have not read or heard his entire diatribe and think it's just anti gay. Which is despicable by itself. The media is responsible for this misconception and I point that out every time and usually win the any pro Phil "KKK" Robertson argument.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
2. More to the point is that he probably wasn't fired anyway...
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 02:11 AM
Dec 2013

and this is a scheme they both bought into to send the last season's ratings through the roof.

The last season starts in a few weeks, and our "suspended" hero is in all but the last episode, since all but the last were filmed and in the can already. Be interesting to see what that last episode will focus on.

Check A&E's schedule for anything but ducks today. Tonight. Probably tomorrow.

They are laughing hysterically all the way to the bank at how this is going down.

moondust

(19,993 posts)
3. Employers have a lot of power.
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 02:38 AM
Dec 2013

Last edited Mon Dec 23, 2013, 03:18 AM - Edit history (1)

Dress codes, standards of behavior, etc. I've always had concerns about surrendering so much freedom at the door to the workplace but that's how it's always been.

TlalocW

(15,384 posts)
4. I posted a really generic First Amendment rant on Facebook about it
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 02:50 AM
Dec 2013

"It is completely unAmerican to allow any kind of media, channel, or network to punish one or more celebrities for voicing their deeply-held personal convictions because that speech may not be popular with a certain segment of society, and they're more worried about their bottom line than the freedoms we all enjoy today. Like if you agree."

This surprised and delighted a bunch of my more conservative friends who liked and commented about Duck Dynasty, etc. I let it go for a day or two then replied with the following:

Oh, just figured out what you were referencing. Sorry for the confusion, but I was NOT talking about Phil Robertson...

I think I was talking about Martin Bashir when he (admittedly rudely) talked about Sarah Palin...
Or wait, maybe it was Phil Donohue losing his MSNBC show when he questioned Bush and the Iraq War?
Uh, the Dixie Chicks being banned from country music stations? Could have been...
No, wait, it was Ted Koppel when he read the names of soldiers who died in the Iraq War
Bill Maher losing his show on network tv?
Could have been Mike Wallace on 60 Minutes... Memory isn't what it used to be...
Uh, Sinead O'Connor being banned from SNL for ripping up a picture of the Pope?
Gilbert Gottfried from Aflac for tasteless jokes?
Paula Deen?
Alec Baldwin?

Actually, it's not unAmerican. The First Amendment applies to government not interfering with the right to free speech. Privately owned companies can do what they want - with some limitations - if they decide an employee/representative of them has become a liability. Sometimes it's people we don't like saying things we don't like, and we're all, "Yeah! That''ll teach 'em!" and sometimes it's people we admire saying things we agree with, and we get pissed, but they're not First Amendment issues.

TlalocW

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
5. I had exactly this same opportunity with my young niece
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 04:21 AM
Dec 2013

She was very receptive to reason after having first been outraged.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
6. I'm incredibly grateful that the Duck Dude has been put in his place...
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 06:08 AM
Dec 2013

... His flamboyance matches Rush's and I was afraid he would become the TV version of Rush if he wasn't put in his place soon. The MO of that show (IMO) is to glorify ignorance. Ignorance is NOT cool.

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
9. I talked with
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 07:42 AM
Dec 2013

my older sister about it earlier, and when she asked what I thought, I told her that I think the guy is a bigot. She made the case to me that Robertson is just an idiot, rather than a racist or a homophobe. She told me that she thinks those are just his misinformed beliefs because to her, it didn't sound like he said those things in a really mean way like people such as Limbaugh. It was kind of a long conversation I had with her about this, but then she basically went on to say that she thinks the reaction to what Robertson said may be a little too knee-jerk, and will end up hurting the cause of those fighting for equality in the long-run.

TBF

(32,064 posts)
10. I posted the Southern Poverty Law Center's piece
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 11:46 AM
Dec 2013

on my Facebook page. Not only did Mr. Robertson disparage gay Americans but he disgustingly stated that black Americans were better off being subjugated. Both statements were horrendous and the SPLC did a really nice job addressing the second point --

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/news/duck-dynasty-star-oblivious-to-the-suffering-of-african-americans-during-pre-civil

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I am incredibly grateful ...