Local businesses can be as bad as Walmart to work for.

[JNelson6563]

There are many small businesses out there owned by people who want to be as wealthy as possible and do not care one wit about the people they employ to make it happen.

I worked at a local pie company for a year and they were such awful people to work for! They have somehow managed to achieve "much loved" sort of status in the community but they treat their people so poorly! Low wages, substandard equipment and bone grinding work for the people who actually make the stuff.

The holidays are a very special nightmare there. Thanksgiving is their very biggest holiday, sale-wise. Phone rings constantly with pre-orders. The bakers work over-night shifts. They'll work 30 hours in two days and then get a few days off to recover and, of course, keep hours down. As a baker there you will never get 40 hours, you're lucky to get anything over 30. But the hours are very early, the work heavy and the pay poor. Talk to management, get told you need to get a second job.

I just marvel at the conditions of this place and yet they are viewed as this wonderful family that has done so much for the community!1! (And of course they do support a local charity, every penny of it tax deductible).

I am so thankful to have found a different local business that is the ideal people think of when they think of working for a family business in the community. I still marvel at what the other place gets away with while keeping their reputation in tact.

So, take care dear DUers. Do not assume a small business or family owned automatically means anything good. I happened to find one that appears to be a shining beacon on a hill but is infested with a terrible rot (greed) inside. If people had any idea they were paying top dollar for stuff that comes out of mixing bowls so dented and rusted., made by people treated as slaves, well I like to think they would reconsider where they spend their money but I know better.

Julie

[TreasonousBastard]

1. Well said. After I found my specific insurance skills were...

not only not needed in the insurance industry but completely useless outside of it, I found myself working for various and sundry types of small business, and while most of them tried, some were horrific.

None of them paid particularly well, benefits were nonexistent, maybe you got one week paid vacation but usually nothing, overtime was unheard of and I was often paid as a contractor, meaning they got off easy and I had to pay 100% of SS and other taxes out of my low pay. One limo driver job I had to pay my own gas and tolls, too.

I hear Amazon is now the worst employer in the world, and retail sucks no matter how you look at it, but Wal-Mart, Target, and others at least have minimal job security and possible upward mobility. Not great, but they have their internal standards they meet, unlike the little guys who can screw with you because they have a hangover.

[chervilant]

2. Are we finally at the point

where change is inevitable?

I work for a small "family-owned" business. We got a sweatshirt and hoodie (with company logos) for Thanksgiving, and a ham for xmas. This may seem generous (and benevolent), but the owner of the company pays us barely a living wage, with no benefits (we "get" insurance that we have to pay for entirely).

Anyway, my colleagues (fervent Republicans, and predominantly racist) complained vociferously about the "tight-wad" owner.

While I am hoping that more of us recognize the ubiquitous (and financially measurable) disdain with which the wealthy view us, I found myself thinking how glad I am to HAVE a job, and how very warm is that hoodie...

[JNelson6563]

3. I can totally relate to that.

With nothing, well yes, one is generally grateful to have something. That's how I felt when I found that job. At least it was something. Yeah. Enough to be behind in bills and have to buy groceries on my credit card but it was something.

While still a baker I now work for a unionized local, family owned grocery store. They have several stores in the region and have always been good to their employees, many being there 40+ years. My gawd when I first started there (hell, even now many months later!) I still marvel at the luxuries! Equipment not as old as I am, taking breaks, great benefits for little money, respect and security.

It does seem though that many are so grateful to not be out on the street with nothing that they will put up with sub-standard working conditions. How sad that is.

Julie

[chervilant]

5. Exactly!

I'm so glad you get my point. The irony escapes far too many. However, I am hopeful that we're beginning to witness a sea change.

[JI7]

6. since it's a small business you might have an idea of how well the business is doing

and one might be more understanding of not getting more if they realize business is slow.

but if business is doing well then you deserve a lot more than a sweatshirt and hoodie. at least a few hundred dollars as a christmas gift at the very least.

the business mentioned in the op seems very selfish to me since they do well, get many customers coming in yet treat workers like shit.

but employees can have more power when it comes to a small business because they can't afford to train and just go through the entire hiring process as easily as large companies can.

[chervilant]

8. Yes, this is -- quite obviously -- salient

to this discussion. My company is doing well, in light of current economic woes. Key employees drive company vehicles, enjoy company gas credit cards, and receive annual bonuses -- in stark contrast to the rest of us -- the Hoi Polloi.

[pipoman]

10. How much are you willing to pay for a pie?

And how many pies can a person make per hour/shift? Pie is labor intensive if made entirely from scratch. My best pie Baker is 83 years old and she can turn out around 30 pies in 8 hours. 30 pies at $13 each is $390, that leaves $130 max for labor. She makes around $16 including benefits. .

Further this whole idea that people are somehow entitled to some great bonus at the holidays is petty, imo..at least the employer in the op did something. .

[notadmblnd]

15. The Honey Baked Ham store charges around $56 dollars for a pie.

Now what the hell could be in that pie that could possibly justify 56.00?

[pipoman]

19. I would sell zero pies at that price. .

Even by the piece, that's $7 per slice on an 8 cut pie..my market wouldn't even come close to that. .by the slice ours is $2.99, $24 for the pie with always a few pieces having to be discarded or dramatically discounted. .

[CrispyQ]

22. Our local pie shop charges $16-18. If you want gluten free, add $4.

They sell a lot of pies!

You are right that pie baking is labor intensive. I baked pies for holiday gifts for many years. Of all the gifts I've given over the years, I received more hand written & emailed "Thank you's" for my pies than any other gifts.

[JNelson6563]

26. There are different types of operations.

The company I mentioned in the OP has a facility that just churns out the pie crusts, bottoms and tops. We'd get them in frozen, cases of 50. A very big day during a festival in summer we'd make over 800 pies. Plus all sorts of other goodies. From scratch. They were getting $15+ a pie and much more for that which was sold by the slice.

The way we had it set up I could easily do a couple hundred pies by myself in an 8 hour shift if need be but, again, we did not have to make the dough.

Julie

[JI7]

32. most places charge far more than 13 dollars for a whole pie, and slices can get even better profit

[Hoyt]

4. Good post. Folks lament the passing of a lot of mom/pop establishments, but they weren't always so

great. Some are/were. Others weren't. Worse, a lot of employment laws do not apply to small businesses.

[pipoman]

7. Healthcare

More specifically, senior health care, is a place for people who know how to cook/bake to look for good work. Usually good pay and benefits. Selling food is a tough and very competitive racket..and we must not forget that Walmart is competition in baked goods too. .

Health care isn't in the food business and there is a revival in health care food service away from pre prepared foods back to homemade. I manage 5 health care kitchens. We pay fair wages, have pto, insurance, 401k, shift differential, and the work is rewarding because residents appreciate our efforts.

[Laelth]

9. k&r for the truth, however depressing it may be. n/t

-Laelth

[NealK]

11. Lots of assholes out-there

Good thing that they don't control millions of people's lives. You know what would be really cruel? Send Gordon Ramsey at their place to expose their crap..

[Act_of_Reparation]

12. I've had mixed experiences with small businesses

Some were terrific work environments where everyone pulled together towards a common goal, and where the owners were genuinely appreciative of their employees.

These were in the minority, however. Mostly, I found myself working for people who thought of themselves as magnates, despite their obviously limited success. In their minds, if it weren't for all those pesky taxes and workers' rights regulations, they'd be hitting the links with Warren Buffet every weekend. Ridiculous.

[skepticscott]

13. You make a very good point, my friend

In the end, it's about people, not size. If the people running a business put profits so far ahead of employees (or customers), it doesn't really matter if the company is mom-and-pop, small, medium-sized or large. "Family-owned" doesn't really guarantee anything, if the "family" is a bunch of greedy SOBs. Of course, as a business gets larger, it can get more and more difficult for a few good people to control everything that happens, but it's still possible to have a big business that cares about its workers.

Hope you had a lovely holiday!

[JNelson6563]

29. Thanks Scott!

Yes, it really is all about the priorities of the owners.

In other news, ha a lovely holiday! Lots of fun & big brunch with kids and then we were all off to my brother's place for great food, excellent wine and much hilarity! I saw from FB that you and Mrs. Skepticscott were celebrating in style! So looking forward to the next Adventure in Cocktails!

Julie

[Shankapotomus]

14. a couple hundred

well placed anonymous flyers would fix that bakery with the community good. I have encountered my share of local businesses like that and have no sympathy for them. They are usually run by right wing A holes.

[dotymed]

16. My Son worked for a small family owned restaurant.

His very small paychecks kept bouncing....

I have 2 nephews who work for a family owned Budweiser distributorship. They own most of the middle Tn. market. Nashville included.

Last month they quit paying their drivers commission (which was most of their pay) due to "hard times."

Of course that did not stop them from buying 2 more distributorship's in Tn.

Using the money they stole from their employees to pay for them.... hey they are not going to spend "THEIR PROFITS."

WE HAVE TO STOP THIS GREED (APPROVED BY BOTH MAJOR PARTIES) AND CREATE A DIFFERENT PARADIGM, and peoples party.

I WOULD FOLLOW SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS AND HIS IDEALS ANYWHERE. ONE OF OUR FEW REPRESENTATIVES FOR THE PEOPLE.

[davidthegnome]

17. I know the type.

Yes, I still work for eight dollars an hour, too. In the small, more rural area where I live, most of us are considered fortunate and expected to be grateful if we can find a job offering even that much. In the thirteen years since I joined the work force, the one job that came anywhere near paying a living wage was my work for the 2010 Census. 13.25 an hour, plus .55 cents per mile. The job lasted a little less than two months, where in most areas it took three, if not four or five. This is because up here we have a great many eager workers, and not enough jobs to go around. Offered the chance to work for more than ten bucks an hour, most of us here will jump at it - unless we're lucky enough to have more professional careers.

For all that, it could always be far worse. I think of the people (especially the children) all over the world making produce for walmart, building computers for Dell, Microsoft, Acer, and other companies. They earn pennies per hour, while the management, particularly upper management, could easily afford to buy several yachts and retire after a few years.

I never assume anything about small businesses, or large ones, other than that if I end up working for them, I'm going to work really hard just for gas money. The Census Job was the exception - that was great.

It's the world we live in, most of us, in this Capitalist rule. Profit is King. These companies and individuals, particularly the wealthier ones, are not going to offer living wages or fair benefits unless or until they are forced into it. This is because such a thing would eat into their enormous profits. Meanwhile, Bush gives them tax breaks for their "hard work" while most of our spineless politicians are more inclined towards cringing and boot-licking than demanding anything better for their people. Of course they are - especially since the Citizens United ruling. These wealthy individuals and wealthy businesses fund their campaigns.

If we want something, anything better than this, then I believe it requires a change in our societal perspective. Perhaps we might ultimately come to the conclusion, that there is far more greatness in giving a loaf of bread to a hungry child, than in pushing your way to the top and making hundreds of dollars an hour. Should even a majority of us reach this conclusion, then I believe the world would be a much better place.

For now though, I'll work holidays for eight dollars an hour, struggle to hang on to my car and earn enough to pay for gas to get to work - and pray the student loan people don't finally garnish my wages. I'll thank who ever I have to thank and work for whom ever I must if it means the difference between survival and starvation. I expect that most of us see it this way. If there were a better alternative, perhaps we would leap at it. The alternative though, needs to be created first.

[Skittles]

27. excellent post, davidthegnome

you're one of those folk who truly knows the real world

[JNelson6563]

30. I think part of the answer

as far as the changes we need to make, is a renewed effort to unionize. The benefits I have at this unionized employer are things folks at the pie place can only dream of.

It helps that the company owners actually do care about the people that work for them and are decent people to begin with. I marvel at how long so many have been there for.

I do hope things turn around for you soon. I know just how you feel and had actually forgotten what it was like to not feel/live that way (barely scraping by enough to subsist).

I know many, like you, know there is a better way to live & grab any opportunity to do so. Sadly too many become convinced that they really are the lucky ones to have a job that keeps them out of the homeless shelter but little else.

Julie

[glowing]

18. No, but targeting a very large multinational/ global company helps to bring

all tides up. If their is a law to provide living wages AND for a Union that supports workers in a small business setting: these two things could greatly help the many who work for the small, under the radar Scrooges.

And really, the owners have been created in a perverse sense of rubunlican/ free market/ trickle down BS. If more people had a little more money, including their staff, their pie orders would increase.

I was watching National Lampoon Xmas special with the family last night. One of the Big issues was the bonus so he could put in a pool for the fam. These days, bonuses are a free turkey, ham, $25 gift certificate to Walmart. I work for a much smaller, franchised hotel that makes much less than my husbands larger, multi property managed company that charges 2 or 3 times that of my hotel. And my Xmas bonus was $250. For the entire Xmas bonus, gifts, party, and xtras, the owners pull from their own pockets to provide a little extra for the employees.

My husband's company could pay out more... They put millions into renovations and always increase the price in rooms, banquet spaces, and food/ drink prices everytime they do an upgrade. And the types of people who are paying $250 a night for a room are making plenty of money that they don't even bother looking at the end price.

There is such a disconnect and "two Americas" as a perfect example of what is wrong with our society as a prime example. The biggest problem these larger hotels have is turn over. When your company is constnatly training newbies and one of these jobs is a done a dozen, they don't care. My husband managesin the restaurant/ banquet side. The kitchen does get paid decently , but the wait and bar staff could work anywhere. Plus the managing company that was there the past year, randomly spent each day picking a name out of a hat and drug testing them. The only tests that will "pop" are alcohol, weed, and cocaine. Two items the wait staff and kitchen staff in any kitchen I've ever worked with engage in; and the alcohol is normally free flowing after work to let off a little bit of steam! (Needless to say, he's constantly dealing with new staff and people who make so little that they really don't give a shit what some rich prick thought about how quick their room service was or that little Sophie and her $50,000 wedding wasn't just perfect because she had to wait 2 mins for a champagne refill. Disconnect and superiority complexes, burned into their psyche that it is proper and is right for them to be assholes and make those "under" them even more miserable.

[CrispyQ]

24. If there were a way to put an actual dollar amount on the cost of turnover

& stick it in a spreadsheet, maybe companies would pay better wages.

[Demo_Chris]

20. Walmart is BETTER than most of the small businesses I have worked for...

That's one reason why this whole Walmart hate thing has never resonated with me. Compared to the alternatives I have seen, Walmart jobs are freaking awesome. Yeah, they screw their employees, but everyone screws their employees.

[jeff47]

21. Yes, they can. But being small means there's lots of alternatives

Whereas Wal-Mart shutting down all those small businesses means there are no alternatives.

[CrispyQ]

23. It is sad, but true.

My mother worked for many small businesses & none of them paid well & most had almost nothing in the way of benefits. Usually she got six paid days off a year, which she could take as vacation or sick pay. She also got holidays off although many of the companies did not pay holiday pay, so the employees had to use one of their six days or take less pay that week. I have no idea how profitable or not these companies were, but exploiting workers is not just a big biz issue.

Humans can be such a rotten lot.

[KurtNYC]

25. Worked for a guy who made $3 mil in salary plus bonus

That's about $10,000 per work day. My bonus at the end of the year was what he made every 2 and a half minutes -- $50.

[PumpkinAle]

28. Taking vacation today

as otherwise I would lose it - yes, I know I do consider myself lucky I have paid vacation. This didn't stop the boss from calling and asking me to arrange their wedding anniversary celebrations at a casino in LV for Sunday.

Of course, it is at one of the luxury resorts and no expenses spared - but there have been no pay raises and no OT for the last 3 years because they can't afford it. (Yes, although wrong, we work off the clock - a lot).

And we are frequently told - aren't you lucky to have a job.

Yes we are lucky to have a job, but the way we are treated (which is better than so many) leaves a lot to be desired.

[Orsino]

31. Wal-Mart forces some of this, by its very existence.

Any business that would compete on that turf soon learns that it doesn't have to offer good wages, benefits or treatment.

[madinmaryland]

33. I have taken to buying "local" even though the local owners may or may not be dicks.

Being an owner of just about anything seems to make a person a Republican (has been that way for a long time). The only positive thing is the money spent at a local business typically stays in the community, unlike a large comglomerate, and they at least have a connection to the local community which should give them more incentive to provide better service.

An interesting example is Stew Leonards in Connecticut. They have three grocery stores (could be four now) and it turns out the owners (Stew Leonard) were good republicans and were caught skimming money off the sales from the little food stands they have around the stores. They were earning millions without that, yet had to try and make a little bit more. Stew spent time in jail as did his son.