About trusting the government...

[ljm2002]

...I was chided recently on DU for not trusting the government. The claim was that it isn't very "liberal" to not trust the government. After all, how can you want single payer health care, not to mention regulatory agencies like the EPA, and then turn around and say you don't trust the government? In particular, why all the mistrust of the NSA?

This seems to be a recurring theme around here, so I thought I'd do an OP on the topic.

First, obviously "the government" is a big thing. It consists of many agencies pursuing different goals, some of which mesh together nicely and some of which do not. Furthermore, some of the agencies pursue goals that I do not generally agree with, while others pursue goals that are more to my liking. I'm sure this is true of pretty much all of us, not only on DU but US citizens in general. We may differ on which agencies are generally good and which are generally bad, but I doubt there's anyone who is interested in government and politics who does not have a mixed view of the government.

I generally think the military is bloated and also that force is used too freely by Washington policymakers. That doesn't mean I hate the troops, it means I think the policymakers usually pursue the use of force for the wrong reasons. The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention Vietnam and the bombing of Cambodia, are all cases in point. Our government lied to us in each of these instances. Why would anyone believe our government does not lie to us now?

As to liberals vs. conservatives when it comes to trusting the government, that is a totally spurious argument. Yes, it is true that conservatives spasm at the though of single payer health care, and a national Department of Education, and social programs and the like; and a lot of their responses amount to misinformed paranoia. HOWEVER, I would remind you all, that this government we are supposed to blindly trust is the same government that cracked down hard on peaceful OWS protesters, while doing diddly squat in response to ARMED Tea Party protesters. This is a longstanding pattern of our government, and it matters not whether Republicans or Democrats are in charge: the left are suppressed while the right are kowtowed to. And you think I as a liberal should just blindly "trust the government"?

We should none of us, whether liberal or conservative, whether radical right wing or radical left wing or apolitical, EVER blindly trust ANY government. To do so is a recipe for corruption and disaster. Those parts of the government that are equipped with arms and are allowed to spy on and/or arrest citizens, must always be held to account even more closely than other arms of government, because they are able to inflict harm on citizens that may affect their lives permanently or even kill them.

Anyway I just had to get that off my chest.

[LiberalEsto]

1. +100

[bvar22]

2. I've seen that little bit of sophistry "catapulted" at DU, and there is an increase lately...

...especially with regard to the NSA and Secret Drone killings.

I'll clear it all up:

Liberals Question Authority.
Government secrecy and withholding information from The Public is an anathema to Liberals
who believe that an informed citizenry is necessary for a Democracy to function.
Whistle Blowers are seen by Liberals as protectors of our Democracy.

Conservatives crave Authority,
and trust their leaders to keep them safe,
even if that means being lied to.
Whistle Blowers are seen by conservatives as traitors.

[Theyletmeeatcake2]

4. Bravo!!! You've explained it quite simply...CLEAR THINKING I think they call it!!!!

I think people haven't the time or inclination to question why things happen the way they do. They just accept it as the done way...if you really checked out what happens and the way it's reported and by whom you'd see a thread tying it all together...tinfoil hat maybe but I refuse to believe in chaos theory....the 1% don't like uncertainty as they've too much to lose !!! pity the politicians can be easily got at.......

[ljm2002]

7. I agree to an extent...

...although I must say, my own approach is not so much about questioning authority per se. I respect real authority, and recognize that those in responsible positions may have more facts available to them about the stuff they're dealing with, than I do. They also may have specialized knowledge that most of us do not. It's the nature of reality -- we can't all do everything, and our time and information is necessarily limited. In fact we must accept authority on many topics, again because we live in a complex world and we can't all know everything that is relevant. But we do need to hold our government accountable, and if that is to work, we must make use of our critical thinking skills. I find it's usually pretty easy to sniff out when something is fishy -- politicians and their minions start hand-waving, giving substance-free responses or evading certain questions altogether, and they always start with the mealy-mouth words and carefully parsed phrases. When you find yourself having to read between the lines, that is the first clue. At those times, I never hesitate to question authority, and that's where your Liberal vs. Conservative division rings true for me.

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. LOL I had some person who prides himself on being a conservative democrat call me everything from

a Paulite to Randian to you name it because I didn't roll over and accept my new NSA Overlords. He called me paranoid for talking about police kicking down the wrong door in the middle of the night and killing someone, then proceeded to tell me the NSA should be revered because they protected us from car bombs. I told him there hadn't been a car bombing since McVeigh and there seems to be a story every week about police kicking down the wrong door and he ended the conversation.

Here's where it stands for me: I believe most bureaucrats who work for government agencies believe in what they do and have the best interests of the public at large in mind as they go about their appointed tasks. On the other hand, I don't think I could find three politicians whose heads I would bother to piss on if their hair was on fire. That's how cynical and dishonest I find politicians to be as a species. I would add that I find politicians who have family members that are ALSO politicians to be among the most cynical and dishonest of the lot.

Imagine if we could somehow get politics out of government... What a wonderful world it would be.

[ljm2002]

8. I agree with you about politicians...

...I used to not feel that way but now I find myself nodding in agreement when you say "That's how cynical and dishonest I find politicians to be as a species".

Sad, but there it is.

[AuntPatsy]

5. Worth reading, rec.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

6. Blindly trusting your government is very foolish.

Regardless if it is a D or R by their name, you should question everything they do. They more power people give their government, the less freedom they will have, as been basically said by multiple founding fathers.

[Blanks]

9. There's more than just the federal government...

When you talk about the different government responses to occupy versus tea party participants.

I used to work at a county appraisers office in a position where I was required to knock on doors - people have strange ideas about lumping the government into a single entity.

There are agencies that work against each other and if there is a conservative federal administration and a liberal state administration (EPA vs DEQ or federal DOT vs state DOT) or vice versa they may have different priorities. Then there's city, county and state cooperation. It may be their sole function to NOT cooperate.

They all need to be watched like a hawk.

[Rex]

10. Only authoritarians trust the government.

I was going to say only an idiot would but blind faith in any government, but that would probably be insulting to idiots.