How is it possible to take the Snowden is a traitor charges seriously?

[noise]

Are we not allowed to question the credibility of the traitor accusers?

1)They keep lying about 9/11 failures. By that I specifically mean that the NSA had the legal authority to surveil Khalid al-Mihdhar. The CIA was legally bound to tell the FBI that al-Mihdhar was in the country based on the fact that the FBI has legal jurisdiction for counterterrorism within the US.

2)They overlook all sorts of conduct that truly damaged national security. For example the invasion/occupation of Iraq.

3)They seem to believe that the US should bend to their will. Meaning three hundred million citizens should submit to a world of invasive surveillance and eroding civil liberties based on the claims of a bunch of corrupt insiders.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. And Clapper intentionally lied to mislead Americans.

Why is he still in office.

[MrMickeysMom]

20. Why isn't he serving time?

While others are?

[mindwalker_i]

2. I have some serious questions about them

It seems to me like the argument often made, that Snowden stole stuff from the government, is just weird. It's like they don't want to know what the government is doing, possibly because it makes their guy look bad, but I'm wondering whether there's something else. Like maybe a certain conditioning to accept authority? It amazes me when people voluntarily submit to being searched as they leave Fry's. I always just walk right past them and find it creepy that it's even an issue.

The obvious counter argument is, what if you shoot a guy with a bomb before he or she sets it off, leveling a building? Are you then guilty of murder and should you get the chair? I think it's pretty obvious that you shouldn't. In this case, Snowden "stole" stuff from the NSA in order to expose what I would argue is a crime on par with blowing up a building, if not worse in certain ways because it undermines all of society and democracy.

The last argument is that it's legal. I'm not entirely sure of this, but I think parts of the patriot act can be interpreted that way. That definitely doesn't make it right. It seems pretty clear that it goes against what the constitution says about government needing to have a reason before searching all your stuff. So the argument goes that, until the courts rule it's unconstitutional, it's legal and we should do nothing about it. The courts won't rule until someone brings it to them, so it follows that we need to bitch and complain about it. But also, the courts seem to not want to go against the rest of the government, at least not much. It's our duty to say this is not cool, and to force the issue, in my opinion at least. In a democracy, power comes supposedly from us all, so sitting by and just letting this happen is an abdication of our duty.

So that's my answer: at the very least, the people who are calling Snowden a traitor are derelict in their own duty as citizens. Standing by and letting our freedoms be taken away, then actively helping to have them taken away, is fundamentally wrong and evil.

[SciFiRK]

3. Exposing your own government is one thing,

running to foreign countries offering information is treason.

[grasswire]

4. oh bother nt

[sabrina 1]

8. Who ran to foreign countries? Other than the liars and war criminals who dragged our miitary into

Iraq and are responsible for the deaths of over SIX THOUSAND TROOPS and ONE MILLION OR MORE, innocent civilians, a country that had ZERO to do with 9/11. They with their NSA stooges LIED to the American people. They ran to Afghanstan placing the lives of the troops in danger, to Iraq again placing the lives of the troops and all those innocent people in danger, many of them DEAD now.

IF that is who you are talking about 'running to foreign countries, then I agree with you 100% and hope that we all live to see the day when they are all PROSECUTED for Treason. Along with those who have been violating our Constitutional Rights with their illegal massive spying on the American people.

I don't know of anyone else who 'ran to foreign countries' offering information, AND you forgot, spending BILLIONS of tax dollars on their foreign adventures.

THAT is TREASON. Anyone reporting on those crimes IS A HERO.

Snowden and Manning and Binney and Tice, all heroes. Witnesses to crimes are obligated to report them. I'm sure you agree.

[Savannahmann]

17. So it's acceptable to bomb weddings with drones and no repercussions

It's acceptable to kidnap people, lock them in secret prisons, and torture them. It's perfectly fine to lie about everything they are doing, and it's admirable the way they spy on everyone. But if you go somewhere safe, and expose the truth, that is a crime.

As I recall, one of the first rules of warfare, you have to operate from a safe base of operations. Snowden appears to have found that in his war against the NSA/CIA/FBI/DHS spying on people. The other side has many such bases to operate from, why do you begrudge the man from avoiding what everyone here would agree is at best, a Criminal justice system. We know that fair trials are a joke. We know that if he was in the system as so many want him to be, that it would be a brutal incarceration and then the Defense would be prohibited from presenting any evidence since it is all Top Secret according to Big Brother.

If you can't fight and win conventionally, unconventional is the only way to go. If we've learned anything, it is that the Government rules the Conventional approaches to change, and will allow no one up that road. So Unconventional was the only path available to get the information into the hands of the people.

Blame the messenger all you want. Me, I'm far more offended and outraged by the actions of my Government.

[MrMickeysMom]

21. Funny how your tunnel vision works on that one...

What a myopic statement you made…

[msongs]

5. our drone murderers have a lot of never to criticize anybody else nt

[1000words]

6. Most aren't taking it seriously

Despite the comical efforts to convince us otherwise.

[chungking34]

7. I don't

Snowden is a true hero for exposing the NSA for the corrupt, ruthless organization that it is. He should be welcomed back into this country as soon as possible.

[Crabby Appleton]

9. He's not been charged with treason

below are the three charges in the criminal complaint:

18 U.S.C. 641 Theft of Government Property

18 U.S.C. ?93(d) Unauthorized Communication of National Defense information

18 U.S.C. 798(a)(3) Willfui Communication of Classified Communications Intelligence Information to an Unauthorized Person

[Alamuti Lotus]

10. it's not a credible or meaningful accusaton, but it is a great bellweather on the accuser

One instantly knows not to care about anything they could possibly say once that nonsense starts flowing. Personally, I am very grateful when a person makes it so easy to discount their entire world-view with the emission of psychotic, blind nationalist hysteria.

[KG]

11. it's traitorous when he makes someones favorite president look bad.

[bemildred]

12. It helps a lot if your income depends on it. nt

[Broward]

13. It's not, hero worship causes people to say some absurd things.

[baldguy]

14. Nobody on DU questions it when Cheney is called a traitor for outing Valerie Plame.

But somehow Snowden is a hero for doing exactly the same thing.

[kelliekat44]

15. +1000. nt

[B Calm]

16. Bingo!!

[Savannahmann]

19. That isn't even apples and oranges

That is apples and horse apples.

Scooter outed (with or without Cheney's directions is debatable) Plame for political revenge in an effort to discredit Wilson.

Snowden outed a systemic violation of our rights, and the lies used to cover up that systemic violation. Snowden put the truth out there for all to see. That is closer to the actions of Ambassador Wilson than Dick Cheney.

If you want a comparison, then the better one is that Wilson is more like Snowden. Unfortunately, that makes the Democratic Administration play the part of Cheney and the evil Rethugs.

Now, that I've fixed your analogy, please feel free to edit your post.

[baldguy]

23. You're making a determination of guilt or innocence

Based on your perception of their political objectives, rather than by what they actually did. But - just as with Cheney - we have no reason to trust Snowden and his political objectives, do we?

[MrMickeysMom]

22. On point with that one, bald guy ... eom

[99Forever]

18. It's possible...

... if you a moronic tool and a worthless anti-American POS.