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el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
3. It does sort of raise the question of what is socialism? Is any government service socialism?
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 02:01 PM
Jan 2014

Is Socialism a Government system or an economic one?

Bryant

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
9. Excuse me if you know all of this:
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 02:47 PM
Jan 2014
Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy.[1] "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these.[2] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them.[3] They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.[4]

A socialist economic system is based on the organizational precept of production for use, meaning the production of goods and services to directly satisfy economic demand and human needs where objects are valued based on their use-value or utility, as opposed to being structured upon the accumulation of capital and production for profit.[5] In the traditional conception of a socialist economy, coordination, accounting and valuation would be performed in kind (using physical quantities), a common physical magnitude, or a direct measure of labor-time in place of financial calculation.[6][7] Distribution of output is based on the principle of to each according to his contribution. The exact methods of resource allocation and valuation are the subject of debate within the broader socialist calculation debate.

In the Marxist theory of historical materialism, it is predicted that further advances in technology and the productive forces will give rise to a more advanced stage of development referred to as communism, a society in which classes and the state are no longer present, and there is access abundance to final goods, and thus distribution is based on to each according to his need.

As a political movement, socialism includes a diverse array of political philosophies, some of which are in opposition. These include reformism and revolutionary socialism; state socialism and libertarian socialism, the former of which calls for the nationalisation of the means of production, distribution and exchange as a strategy for implementing socialism; and the latter of which opposes the use of state power to achieve such an arrangement, opposing both parliamentary politics and state ownership.[8] Democratic socialism highlights a central role for democratic processes and a democratic political system.

Modern socialism originated from an 18th-century intellectual and working class political movement that criticised the effects of industrialisation and private property on society. The revival of republicanism in the American Revolution of 1776 and the egalitarian values introduced by the French Revolution of 1789 gave rise to socialism as a distinct political movement. In the early 19th-century, "socialism" referred to any concern for the social problems of capitalism irrespective of the solutions to those problems. However, by the late 19th-century, "socialism" had come to signify opposition to capitalism and advocacy for an alternative post-capitalist system based on some form of social ownership.[9] During this time, German philosopher Karl Marx and his collaborator Friedrich Engels published works criticizing the utopian aspects of contemporary socialist trends and applied a new scientific understanding of socialism as an historically inevitable phase of development which will come about through social revolution to resolve the conflicting class relationships of capitalism.[10]


More, enough to turn your brain into oatmeal even, at the link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

IMHO:

Some things are just better done by government without discrimination against any group from a philosophy of what benefits the whole society. And that equality of opportunity will lead to prosperity for all. Division and inequality lead to economic costs that are in the long run not sustainable and threaten peace.

Also, socialist mechanisms such as community owned utilites are more efficient as far as actual work getting done or services provided, as there is no artificial skimming from the mission of providing the goods or services to squeeze out a profit. A corporation is based on a narrow focus of producing profit for the owners, heedless by nature of the effects on consumers, its workers, the community and environment as it was not created for those benefits.

When a necessity such as water or power is run by a city, for example, all efforts go to directly benefit the 'owners' which is the public. Thus it is cheaper and provides the public with more opportunity to start up and run private businesses through that advantage, instead of having the them compete for dollars with the provider of the services.

The opposite of this philosophy is privatization, which lead to a cruel form of economic apartheid, in which those connected to some businesses will make a profit by denying the basics to others. This is our problem now, brought to us by the memes of Nixon and Reagan.

Their mantra was that business will always do a job better and with more efficiency. The question to be asked which media will not ask, is who is profiting from efficiency of the type being espoused, with a profit and loss sheet. The functions of government are not to make money for the few, but to equal the field and increase the good for all citizens. A corporation is not evil, it is just not designed for that. The vaunted efficiencies of conservatives lead to social oppression and chaos, which also benefits some business.

Taxes are part of the floor of the system of a service or goods, but a fair and efficient utility pays for itself by increasing economic growth. In all cases it is a partnership of the private (individual) operating with the public (state) for mutual gain. And its shareholders are the citizens who get an input into what they want that utility to do. If they want green energy to produce their power then they say so. If they want to help those who are poor with their utility bill, they can contribute. They make long term plans to prevent economic disruption from known hazards as the benefit is for people.

A corporation goes against that every day, as it's not about giving a benefit to any of the people paying except the investors and owners, and every other social or ecological consequence is ignored.

Best I can do, gotta run.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
20. All repeat all economies are a combination of goods and services
Tue Jan 7, 2014, 11:13 PM
Jan 2014

provided by a mixture of private capital and public capital enterprises with a healthy mixture of quasi public/private operations.

Socialism would indicate a system that prefers the mix to have more public than a 'Capitalist' economy that prefers strictly limiting public capital enterprises.

As economies get more and more sophisticated the lines become more and more difficult to discern. Airlines appear to be private but they operate with significant public support in the nature of provided services, especially in the heavy cost of airports, which no airline could afford to own on their own.

Banks also serve as a quasi public/private enterprise because their supply of liquid assets is significantly enhanced by a central bank.

The difference between the Democrats in Republicans is not so much in the nature of that cooperation (I don't see Republicans arguing for privatizing airports and I don't see Democrats arguing for the nationalization of airlines) as much as how the roles are defined and which side should be the dog and which side should be the tail.

Stuart G

(38,448 posts)
4. Yes indeed...those socialist plows are everywhere..
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 02:03 PM
Jan 2014

Now, they are clearing the main street of snow by my house. There is lots of snow that has fallen around me..so that main street out there gets lots of passes.. I hear them, those socialist plows, they come by. again, again, and again.. yes, indeed.....

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
6. There's More Socialism Around Than One Might Think
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 02:31 PM
Jan 2014

And socialism is really an economic term but has been applied to political philosophy. All along our nation has been varying degrees of socialist and capitalist, the problem is since Reagan our mix of unabashed greedy, I'm getting mine screw you capitalism has exploded upward.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
18. since raygun, it's socialism for corporations, and privatization for the rest of us.
Tue Jan 7, 2014, 10:11 PM
Jan 2014

Or should I say corporatization? The bottom rung of capitalism? Not sure what to call it; not democracy, that's for sure.

former9thward

(32,082 posts)
8. Government services are not socialist.
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 02:35 PM
Jan 2014

Every government, including the Roman empire and German Nazis, has had them. I suggest learning some background in socialism.

HoosierCowboy

(561 posts)
11. Avoid dependence on evil socialist government
Tue Jan 7, 2014, 11:43 AM
Jan 2014

Tell the plow driver to raise the blade when he passes your section of the street.

 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
12. I used to teach my students. .
Tue Jan 7, 2014, 11:56 AM
Jan 2014

that every society is a mixture of socialism and capitalism. If you work
for the government providing services for reasons other than profit, then
you are a part of the socialist sector of society. This sector includes water
treatment systems, libraries, sidewalks, roads & highways, (most) schools, the military & police,
and unfortunately the NSA (where I used to work).
Societies with very small socialist sectors, like Somalia, tend to work poorly, if at all.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
13. I just wish the socialist SOB wouldn't plow 2/3rds of the street into my driveway
Tue Jan 7, 2014, 01:30 PM
Jan 2014

One pass down the middle, pushing it my way, back the other direction filling the driveways on the other side of the street with less than a 1/3rd of the snow, then back again pushing the remainder into my driveway. The plowed snow drift on my side of the street is twice the height as the other side.

Man, I love that you plow my street, but would it kill ya to run the route the other way once in awhile?

 

W.J. McCabe

(74 posts)
14. Excellent Example of Socialism
Tue Jan 7, 2014, 03:02 PM
Jan 2014

Conservatives in this country have turned the word "socialism" into a boogeyman to use on the ignorant who have no clue what socialism actually is.

ashling

(25,771 posts)
15. I had a very brite but very right wing student
Tue Jan 7, 2014, 03:24 PM
Jan 2014

in a class a few years back. I had the post on government regulation of business - particularly of hazardous industries. This guy's post was entitled "government regulation, a/k/a socialism"

BobUp

(347 posts)
17. Oh, look,
Tue Jan 7, 2014, 03:40 PM
Jan 2014

you can plow the whole neighborhood for under $1,800.00 !!!
http://plowhouse.com/?gclid=CM3xwvXn7LsCFcY7MgodkzUALQ

I don't know if that's one time, or many times, but I don't know if the draft horses come with the deal or not.

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