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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMy health nut parents didn’t vaccinate me … unfortunately
"I had an outdoor lifestyle. I grew up next to a farm in Englands Lake District, walked everywhere, did sports and danced twice a week, drank plenty of water. I wasnt allowed pop; even my fresh juice was watered down to protect my teeth. I wouldve killed for white, shop-bought bread in my lunch box once in a while and biscuits instead of fruit, like all the other kids.
We ate (organic local) meat maybe once or twice a week. My mother and father cooked everything from scratch I have yet to taste a Findus crispy pancake and oven chips (fries, to Americans) were reserved for those nights when Mom and Dad had friends over and we got a treat.
As healthy as my lifestyle seemed, I contracted measles, mumps, rubella, a type of viral meningitis, scarlatina, whooping cough, yearly tonsillitis and chickenpox. In my 20s I got precancerous HPV and spent six months of my life wondering how I was going to tell my two children under the age of 7 that Mommy might have cancer before it was safely removed..."
http://www.thestar.com/life/2014/01/07/my_health_nut_parents_didnt_vaccinate_me_unfortunately.html
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Not to stir the pot unnecessarily, but this is an article well worth reading, and goes right to the point of many discussions here.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)alp227
(32,026 posts)"The 1950s were great! Because family values and GOD and innocence."
Reality: Racism, sexism, the Red Scare...
"I'd rather live like a caveman because things were more NATURAL and healthy back then."
Reality: Contagious diseases where you have no choice but vaccinations for cure, malnutrition...
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)shenmue
(38,506 posts)I remember it, around 1984. Extremely painful.
BobUp
(347 posts)you might get shingles later in life like I did recently, very, very painful. I'm going for a shingles vaccination soon, it won't prevent it totally, there a 50/50 chance to get it even after vaccination.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)it seems what we really need is a vaccine for Ignoransa propagandii.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)Drew Richards
(1,558 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...these diseases. I can only imagine it's because their own parents were responsible and vaccinated them, allowing them to live with the fantasy that these diseases are not really so bad.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)to have not had very many vaccines themselves growing up, and who got all the childhood diseases and recovered just fine, simply see it differently. Which is not to defend their choice, but to try to understand it.
I'm old enough, 65, that I had all the "standard" childhood diseases. I honestly don't think I know anyone personally who was greatly damaged by any of them. I am old enough to remember quite clearly the mass vaccinations when the Salk vaccine became available. Actually, the Catholic school I attended was one of the ones that was part of the testing of that vaccines. My older sister was part of the trials, but hers was a group that got the dummy, not the real thing, so she, along with the rest of us, had to get vaccinated.
Another thing that stands out in that article is how many other random illnesses she got, quite aside from the ones we vaccinate against. It definitely demonstrates how individual resistance or exposure to something matters a lot. My sister's kids, the same ages as mine, came down with various additional diseases mine never got. One daughter got scarlet fever several times as a child. Her son got meningitis. They were treated and recovered quite well. My two almost never got even a cold. Lucky them. I'm guessing it's a combination of genetics and specific exposures.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)My mom often looked confused about the addition of each new vaccine. She had 7 siblings and dozens of cousins (yes dozens, one family had 19 kids and her dad was one of 14). "We all had that and we were just fine. I loved it when I had the mumps it meant I got ice cream!" None of them were ever hospitalized. No one died. She did vaccinate me, however. Still, when the chicken pox vaccine came out, she thought it was ridiculous. So I think you are right that everyone's experience colors their feelings on this. Perhaps the author's mother was like my mom.
Before the chicken pox vaccine was recommended in our area, my daughter was exposed to CP 3 times and didn't catch it. When I say exposed, I mean directly, sharing sippy cups and sleepovers and so on. Not on purpose by the way, it's just how it turned out. Nothing. No chicken pox. A few years later, she suddenly got a horrible fever and headache that lasted 2 days. A week after that - chicken pox. And a really mild case for a 9 year old. The exact amount of pox needed for immunity (I think it was 30?) Then my 2 younger ones got it and they both had really severe cases. I'm not sure why my oldest didn't catch it after 3 exposures and when she did catch it (I have no idea how she was finally exposed) it was mild.
I think it also matters where you live. I lived in a remote area in the north were people are usually living in closer quarters...it's rare to see a house more than 1500 sq ft. And so, there were all kinds of illnesses from over crowding and from lack of sanitation in some areas (some of the First Nations reserves near by still had boil water orders, and some didn't have running water at all). We were constantly sick. Norovirus came 2-3 times a year. The flu once or twice a year. One daughter got scarlet fever. We dealt with a lot of strep, croup, bronchitis, laryngitis. And in between those, we had colds and runny noses. Oh, and constant letters from the school about lice in the class (thankfully we never caught it). From September to May, every year, we were sick.
We moved further south to a 'wealthy' suburb and while we still get sick, it's much less. We can actually go several months in a row in the winter with not one person in the family of 5 getting sick. That was impossible where we lived before. Here, the teachers are constantly cleaning the desks and getting the kids to wash their hands...something that wasn't common in my children's previous schools. It makes a big difference.
So, it's likely a combination of genetics, exposure and simply where you live. Lifestyle matters too. People who socialize more are going to get sick. People who work with people are going to get sick. My mom is always getting sick from her work because she works with hundreds of people every day. My dad never gets sick because he works with 5 people. My dad has also never had norovirus. Ever. Why? Who knows. Last year I was living with my parents temporarily and my 12 year old barfed all over the floor in my room the night before I had an exam. I made my dad clean it up, because I always get sick within hours when I clean it up. It worked, because I never got sick (and neither did he). Some people just are genetically predisposed to be immune to certain things.
The only problem I have with the article is how she lists illnesses that aren't covered by vaccination that she contracted as being her mother's fault. Back then there was no vaccination for meningitis, chicken pox or HPV in the schedule. I also had yearly tonsillitis (I was fully vaccinated) and it turned out to be allergies as I got older, and strep was also frequent. Some of those things are common in children, vaccinated or not, healthy food or not. And it can be individual - my brother never had tonsillitis like I did, and never developed hay fever or asthma like I did, but instead has a deadly allergy to fish. It's funny, because he was breastfed and I was not. My mother always gets upset, like, "I breastfed, isn't that supposed to prevent that??". You cannot predict everything, even if you do everything 'right'.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)For some things, like small pox, you get it once and if you recover, you're immune forever. Getting influenza gives you a long-lasting immunity to other similar flu viruses.
It's my understanding that the common cold is caused by a limited, although rather large number of specific cold viruses. I've read numbers that range between 500 and 5,000. So once you get one specific cold, you won't get that one again, although there are still plenty of others. Which is why children, unless they live in relatively isolated circumstances as you pointed out, tend to get frequent colds when young. I certainly had my share growing up. In recent years I get maybe one very other year.
And head lice! I'd forgotten about that. My oldest son went totally bald from alopecia areata when he was four years old. I used to laugh when I'd get the head lice notices from school, because without hair, he simply couldn't get it. The same sister I mentioned before went through the Head Lice From Hell when her middle child was about seven. Said daughter has very thick hair, and the strain going around was very resistant to the standard treatment. I think maybe others in the family got it. Not fun.
Hand washing with soap and water is probably the very best public health measure out there. I often point out that the conditions surrounding the 1918 flu epidemic were very, very different from today, not the least of which is that most people have running water and soap in their homes, and most people wash their hands reasonably often.
I have just recently read two different books about human evolution, The 10,000 Year Experiment by Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending, and Paleofantasy by Marlene Zuk. The short version is that human evolution is ongoing and we've evolved quite a bit more than most people realize, especially since we developed agriculture. Another book, The Cancer Chronicles sheds light on the vagaries of cancer. Taken together, I feel as if I have a far better understanding of the vagaries of genetics and why some of us get one disease and others don't, or get something different entirely.
MsPithy
(809 posts)their exceptionally precious children, is because THE REST OF US DO. If these diseases were rampantly claiming thousands of children, the antivac parents would be clawing their way to the head of the line for vaccinations.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Her story smells fishy, like so many anti-Obamacare stories. The obvious exaggerations just make it stink.
In addition to the problem with her HPV story, there is no vaccine for tonsillitis that could have saved her from her annual case. Also, scarlet fever is a complication of strep throat, which is treated with antibiotics, not vaccines. I'm surprised she hasn't had polio and ended up in an iron lung.
Disclaimer: I get annual flu vaccines, and my children have had all the vaccines recommended by their pediatrician. Last year, I got the adult form of a pertussis vaccine, to help protect my new granddaughter.
But I don't think it helps any discussion to make your point with exaggerations and lies. There are plenty of good reasons to use safe, fully tested vaccines -- but not because of stories like this.
bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)...answering one common objection to science-based treatments - that we get sick because of the low quality of food we eat, or because of our artificial lifestyles. I've read very often that a "fix" for health issues, even cancer, is to eat organic natural foods, exercise and live a more natural outdoors life. All of which I actually do myself, but not because I think it protects me from sickness.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)made her susceptible to that long list of diseases. I was just pointing out that she didn't strengthen her case by including diseases that vaccines wouldn't have prevented.
But you're right. A healthy diet and exercise isn't enough to protect us from contagious illnesses.
Which is why I want to get the shingles vaccine this weekend.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)We just got the diseases. Fortunately, we lived thru it all. Lots of people died. I was just gastly ill with measles. Chickenpox wasn't quite so bad. Mumps on both sides while we were on vacation.
Whooping cough killed so many children. Smallpox was awful.
I get vaccinated.
bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)I was sick at home for two weeks - the only time I ever missed more than a day of school. Of course, my brother and sisters got it too. Two siblings had it bad enough to get facial scars, which used to be very common.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)Or those poor people who had terrible scars from smallpox.