Pope defrocked 400 priests in 2 years

[steve2470]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/01/17/pope-defrocked-priests/4592907/

VATICAN CITY (AP) — A document obtained by The Associated Press on Friday shows Pope Benedict XVI defrocked nearly 400 priests over just two years for sexually molesting children.

The statistics for 2011 and 2012 show a dramatic increase over the 171 priests removed in 2008 and 2009, when the Vatican first provided details on the number of priests who have been defrocked. Prior to that, it had only publicly revealed the number of alleged cases of sexual abuse it had received and the number of trials it had authorized.

While it's not clear why the numbers spiked in 2011, it could be because 2010 saw a new explosion in the number of cases reported in the media in Europe and beyond.

The document was prepared from data the Vatican had been collecting and was compiled to help the Holy See defend itself before a U.N. committee this week in Geneva.

[Cleita]

1. But it doesn't count because according to the

anti-Catholics on this website he didn't send them to prison. Oh, but he can't.

[PeaceNikki]

2. You understand the pope who defrocked those 400 was Ratz, right?

[Cleita]

3. Yes thank you. I can read.

I'm glad he did do something good.

[PeaceNikki]

4. Ah, well maybe you should have read how people want

the Vatican to turn over records to prosecutors and punish higher-ups for covering up crimes and hiding money from victims. I don't think anyone expected or expects the pope to "throw anyone in jail."

But please, carry on with your outrage at the fact that people expect horrific crimes be handled properly rather than hidden.

[Cleita]

5. Actually there is a whole section on a catholic website that has

In detail all the accused, what the depositions were and how it was handled both by the church and civilian courts. You would know that if you looked into it with an unbiased reporter's eye. Don't ask me for a link. I'm on a mobile phone.

[PeaceNikki]

6. The Vatican does not have a great history of handling it well in any regard.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/religion/Cardinal-Dolan-sought-to-protect-money-from-claims-struggled-with-Vatican-to-defrock-abusers-b9943953z1-213832541.html

I have lived in the Milwaukee area my entire life. The abuses of the church are well known here as well as many other major cities. It's well known that the church moved these abusers to other parishes to continue abuse and paid them off while hiding millions from victims. That's no bias. It's fact.

[Cleita]

7. The Catholic Church is not unique in dishing out abuses.

I wish people would gain some perspective in this. I'm not catholic nor do I belong to any religion. But to single out any religion for hate slamming, will bring out the defense in me. I do the same when other religions are selected for hate slamming like Muslims. the fact is that very few people who practice those religions are abusive and use their religion for abuse just because their leaders are often jerks. I mean George W. Bush was a mean asshole of a President and he has made much of the world hate Americans because of his actions and he has not been brought to justice. But all Americans are not GWB. should they be part of the accused?

[justiceischeap]

8. However, it is unique in the abuses it dishes out

I can't think of any other organization that has had more cases of child molestation alleged against them. And as men who are supposed to be stand-ins for the almighty, you'd think they'd be more concerned about the children abused than the scandal it causes. There are too many reported instances of priests being found out and moved to another parish so that priest could start all over with his abuse in a new area. They have continually perpetuated the instances of child rape. This has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with how an organization choses to handle its employees when they are accused of breaking the law. And when said employee is found to have broken the law, this organization hides money so they don't have to pay out the settlement to the victims.

[Cleita]

9. I suppose the string of teenaged church secretaries than seem

To erupt in evangelical circles periodically aren't child abuse? How about that Jesus Camp thing? It may not be sex abuse, but it is child abuse. I haven't seen any of those guys lose their billions and their mansions or do any jail time.

[PeaceNikki]

12. Wait... so... you think the Catholic abusers should not be held accountable because... Jesus Camp?

weird.

Hey, I bet if you started a thread about how awesome one of those other evangelical scandal assholes is because he rescued a puppy, you'd see a number of DUers remind you how fucked up that is.

[Cleita]

14. Jesus camp is weird?

No honey, it's child abuse to the core. Also, I wouldn't blame one evangelical like lets say Jimmy carter, whom I admire, for what the others have done. But it seems Catholics are just ripe for bashing. It's nothing new. It's been around as long as racism.

[PeaceNikki]

10. Well, in context, when people lavishly praise the pope and/or the RCC, others will stand up and

point out the systematic and repeated harm they cause.

It's not 'singling out' Catholicism or Catholics. It's being discussed in context of another heaping kudos for something seemingly meaningless to those of us who feel harmed by the people or organization being discussed.

I get that the vast majority are not evil or abusive. But we're not discussing the vast majority. This OP and your replies seem to act as though we should all give the pope or RCC 'credit' for 'doing something'. There has been a lot of horrible shit in these abuse cases. Are you familiar with the St John's School for the Deaf cases? It and many other cases were pure evil done in the name of the church. Covered up and allowed to continue by the church. And the church is still actively fighting the victims.

So, yeah... defrocking. woo fucking hoo.

[Cleita]

11. Defrocking is actually the most serious thing they can do in the

Church today to priests. In the old days they could be "questioned" by the Inquisition, burned at the stake and other punishments, but they can't do more than that today within the Church. This is where the civil authorities need to take over and in many cases they have, imprisoning them, fining the churches they worked from, etc.. In many cases the victims refused to testify which means the courts couldn't do anything.

[PeaceNikki]

13. Did you notice the part in OP about how it could have been due to MEDIA coverage?

I believe it. God knows (lol) that the Vatican knew about the massive abuse for DECADES and did nothing but hide it. Once the world found out though, they scrambled to make it look like they were 'doing something'.

[Cleita]

15. And the Vatican was wrong. But now that the new pope is trying to change those

Things and benny the rat tried to right a wrong, they still deserve the firing squad?

[justiceischeap]

16. I think they deserve all the shit that gets heaped on them until one of them

stands up and states a zero-tolerance policy, states that they have in fact covered for many pedo priests over the years allowing more abuse to happen, apologizes to the victims, pays what juries have determined the victims are owed--basically, accepts responsibility for what they've allowed to happen to hundreds and hundreds of children all over the world.

[Cleita]

20. I can agree with that and I hope these steps they are taking will

lead to and end up with that result.

[PeaceNikki]

18. Who suggested a firing squad? I sure haven't. They don't deserve execution.

Oh, are you equating bringing up the horrific crimes of the church on DU to death? Hyperbolic much?

Yeah, in addition to the abuses and crimes they've committed and hidden, some of us also have a real hair up our asses because the pope and church actively and systematically work to oppress us. And we find that annoying.

But it's super cute how you are there to valiantly defend them from the likes of us. Those poor oppressed Christians... what ever would they do without you?

[Cleita]

19. You do know what a metaphor is I hope. n/t

[PeaceNikki]

21. I love how you keep avoiding points just to get a cute lil 'dig' in on me.

Hope that felt good!

[warrant46]

35. And various Diocese declaring Chapter 11 Bankruptcy

To get out of paying jury determined Judgments for the outrages committed by their "frocked"

[El_Johns]

30. +1

[Cleita]

31. Thank you. n/t

[Ohio Joe]

17. They could hand over what they have to the police

oh... But they won't.

[Cleita]

22. What makes you say they won't.

Many of the priests have been convicted in courts and either imprisoned and/or fined. So that would suggest evidence had been handed over to the police and courts.

[Ohio Joe]

23. UN slams Vatican for 'efforts to cover up' pedophile priests in sex abuse scandal

The Vatican faced blistering criticism from a United Nations committee Thursday over allegations it protected pedophile priests at the expense of victims in what constituted a worldwide sex abuse scandal.

It was the first time representatives of the Holy See were questioned in public on cases of sexual abuse by Catholic clergy around the world.

The U.N. committee's main human rights investigator, Sara Oviedo, led the most intense grilling the Holy See has received on the issue, according to a report by The Associated Press.

Given the "zero tolerance" policy of the Vatican, she asked, why were there "efforts to cover up and obscure these types of cases?"

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/16/22324032-un-slams-vatican-for-efforts-to-cover-up-pedophile-priests-in-sex-abuse-scandal

"Many of the priests have been convicted in courts and either imprisoned and/or fined."

I'll call bullshit on that statement unless you have something to present as evidence... It sure looks like they are doing a cover-up to pretty much everyone else.

[Cleita]

24. There's a whole website out there of priests accused and

The results of their cases. It's on a catholic newspaper website. But call all the bull shit you like cause I'm done here. Just ask yourself a question though. If a DA issues a subpoena for records and evidence, do you think any church can refuse?

[Ohio Joe]

25. You miss the point... They should be handing it over when they have it, not wait for a subpoena

They are a church, right? Doing the right thing and all... No?

[Bluenorthwest]

26. I figured after that UN information hit the thread you'd declare you were done.

That's some blistering stuff to be defending.

[Cleita]

32. No one is defending wrong doing, but accuse the right people of it not

the one who might be the best chance of doing something about it.

[UTUSN]

27. Yet, he missed defrocking HANNITY and O'LOOFAH!1 n/t

[Cleita]

33. Well, they aren't priests but he can excommunicate them.

However, have either of them been accused of child molestation? I know O'Loofah is guilty of sexual harassment.

[UTUSN]

36. Ha-HAH!1 Thanks for giving me the opening to use the Faux meme against them:

"SOME PEOPLE SAY that AS FAR AS THEY KNOW, Hannity and O'LOOFAH have NOT been accused of child molestation."

Sorry about my imprecise posting, it's just that I've been told that I (sometimes?) have NO FILTER, such that I let my brain synapses crackle as they might in the self-delusion that I'm being funny, only to come across as a dumbass.

My personal context is that of being some kind of lapsed Catholic for some 45 years, but it's so bred into one that it's like in the DNA, with the lingering nostalgia for "the olde religion," the way the first couple of generations after Henry VIII pined for "the olde religion," which for me is at the level of superstition, lighting candles, an invocation to St Anthony to find misplaced items, etc.

In the political context, one of my themes for years has been noticing how some of the biggest wingnut blabbermouths are Catholics, from a Catholic school background: Hannity, the BUCHANANs, unreliable Dems RUSSERT and Tweety, lots of other Italians and Irish. My radio local wingnut talkshow host has said about Liberal Catholics that we should stop pretending to see ourselves as Catholics if we are pro-Choice and other things the church doesn't rule for, that if one is calling 'self a Cath one should go whole hog with the dogma.

But the Catholic yakkers show the Catholic school education, the remnants of Classical indoctrination: all the tools of Rhetoric and dialectics; mastery of the subject, preparing for whatever direction the attacks will come from; rote; loosing anything that will slow down the response time; no shades of gray; scorched earth, all or nothing; using anything like ridicule, humiliation, scorn, mockery, whatever against the opponent. Being a motor mouth.

So my sort of irrational comment about "defrocking" the two jerks was just my slur against them, like wishing they could have lost their Catholic card before they got the very effective training with it.

[BlueStreak]

28. And there is no Pope to clean up the rest of Christianity

Anybody who thinks the perverts in the pulpit are limited to the Catholic Church is nuts. The things that make the Catholic Church different are:

1) There is a hierarchy that churches report to -- a strong one

2) The Catholic church is a huge target and it has deep, deep pockets. Not as deep as it used to, but they still have billions and billions in assets all over the world.

I guarantee you kids are getting felt up and raped at Pentecostal, Methodist, Baptist, Church of God, Presbyterian, and every other kind of church. But what are you going to do when it is a stand-alone church that doesn't have much money and no strong hierarchy to go after?

[Cleita]

34. +1000

However the Catholic hatred evident among certain factions here runs very deep and into the irrational. They really have no idea why they hate the Pope and Mother Teresa. They just do.

[BlueStreak]

38. At least the Catholics are held accountable. Can't say that about

any of the lesser denominations.

[PeaceNikki]

37. You might have heard that there is a UN investigation underway.

This is due to the damning charges of the rampant sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests in over twenty-five countries over the past 60+ years. On top of that, it's been systematically and deliberately allowed to continue and carefully and meticulously hidden from the public and authorities.

Also, not one damn person EVER claimed the abusive behavior was unique to the RCC. Ever. But the scale of the abuse and atrocities of the cover ups most certainly is. Your implication in #2 that victims are after the money is disgusting beyond belief.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/vatican_defends_decision_not_t.html

[BlueStreak]

39. Don't put words in my mouth.

I never said that the claims were primarily about money. In fact I said noting at all about any claims for money. If you think I said that, then it is YOU who have that on your mind, and maybe I should be taking offense at the way you are thinking.

What I said, and I didn't think is was that hard to understand, is that the Catholic church is the one everybody talks about because it is the big target. There is nothing else like the Catholic church in terms of international hierarchy and control, including centralized control over assets.

I have very good knowledge of child molestation at a certain Church of the Nazarene. But what can you do about that? The church isn't tightly affiliated with a larger hierarchy, so what is the point of bringing action against that one church? They already fired the "minister".

In fact very few of these cases, even with the Catholics, result in prison time. Most all of them are civil suits, so like it or not, that ends up being about money.

[Cleita]

40. Was that fired minister prosecuted? I'll bet not.

And if not, he's probably still out there in the population but as you say only Catholics are getting real scrutiny and shaming from the molestation police here.

[BlueStreak]

41. No. To my knowledge there were no consequences.

By the time the family found out about it, the guy had already been fired, so there were probably other cases. And he had left town, so they didn't press any prosecution. It might have been past the statute of limitations. And they were "good church people" so they didn't really want to take action against the church after the horse had already left the barn, so to speak.

[gerogie2]

29. This is average for child molestoers

There are 40k priests and 400 of them are child molesters. That works out to 1%. The normal in society is 5% of people are child molesters. It is just a sad part of life, but not unique to the Catholic church or any church for that matter.