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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Woody Allen Allegations: Not So Fast
It seems people here on DU will jump on things without actual evidence. Granted, his falling in love with his long time girlfriend's adopted daughter is weird, but that does not make him a pedophile.
There are a lot of great points made in this article. A lot of what people believe to be true is simply gossip run awry. Dylan grew up in a household with a mother who hated Woody at that point. The housekeeper said Mia tried to pressure her into going against Woody and that Mia coached Dylan in the home made video statements.
Before you react in horror about Dylan's letter, or now that you've already done it, read this to get some perspective. Below are some excerpts:
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Lets back up a bit: Mias allegations of molestation automatically triggered a criminal investigation by the Connecticut State Police, who brought in an investigative team from the Yale-New Haven Hospital, whose six-month long inquiry (which included medical examinations) concluded that Dylan had not been molested.
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As for the evidentiary videotape of young Dylans claims, its been noted that there were several starts and stops in the recording, essentially creating in-camera edits to the young girls commentary. This raises questions as to what was happening when the tape wasnt running. Was Mia coaching her daughter off-camera, as suggested by the investigators
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The videotape and the medical exams werent the only problems Mia faced in bringing abuse charges against her former lover. There were problems with inconsistencies in her daughters off-camera narrative as well.
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In the midst of the proceedings, on February 2, 1993, a revealing article appeared in the Los Angeles Times, headlined: Nanny Casts Doubt on Farrow Charges, in which former nanny Monica Thompson (whose salary was paid by Allen, since three of the brood were also his) swore in a deposition to Allens attorneys that she was pressured by Farrow to support the molestation charges, and the pressure led her to resign her position. Thompson had this to say about the videotape: I know that the tape was made over the course of at least two and perhaps three days. I recall Ms. Farrow saying to Dylan at that time, Dylan, what did daddy do and what did he do next? Dylan appeared not to be interested, and Ms. Farrow would stop taping for a while and then continue.
Thompson further revealed a conversation she had with Kristie Groteke, another nanny. She told me that she felt guilty allowing Ms. Farrow to say those things about Mr. Allen. (Groteke) said the day Mr. Allen spent with the kids, she did not have Dylan out of her sight for longer than five minutes. She did not remember Dylan being without her underwear.
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On April 20, 1993, a sworn statement was entered into evidence by Dr. John M. Leventhal, who headed the Yale-New Haven Hospital investigative team looking into the abuse charges. An article from the New York Times dated May 4, 1993, includes some interesting excerpts of their findings. As to why the team felt the charges didnt hold water, Leventhal states: We had two hypotheses: one, that these were statements made by an emotionally disturbed child and then became fixed in her mind. And the other hypothesis was that she was coached or influenced by her mother. We did not come to a firm conclusion. We think that it was probably a combination.
Leventhal further swears Dylans statements at the hospital contradicted each other as well as the story she told on the videotape. Those were not minor inconsistencies. She told us initially that she hadnt been touched in the vaginal area, and she then told us that she had, then she told us that she hadnt. He also said the childs accounts had a rehearsed quality. At one point, she told him, I like to cheat on my stories.
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Moses Farrow, {Woody's son} now 36, and an accomplished photographer, has been estranged from Mia for several years. During a recent conversation, he spoke of finally seeing the reality of Frog Hollow and used the term brainwashing without hesitation. He recently reestablished contact with Allen and is currently enjoying a renewed relationship with him and Soon-Yi.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/27/the-woody-allen-allegations-not-so-fast.html
TheMathieu
(456 posts)his alleged victim the benefit of the doubt.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)but the investigation concluded there was no evidence. So what is disturbing about defending him if he is innocent?
I don't know what the truth is, but the responses I saw on here were of outrage at him for being a pedophile when the investigation showed otherwise. Would you not say that is just as bad? To decide he is guilty when evidence showed otherwise?
It appears that the real damage done is Mia possibly using Dylan as a pawn to get back at Woody.
Response to TheMathieu (Reply #1)
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HipChick
(25,485 posts)to molest kids...are we going to make excuses too like the Catholic church did?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024428639
cui bono
(19,926 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)open letter postings (also dozens of times).
Many would say it's the writing of a sycophant no matter how much he attempts to protest. Me? This is a situation for this family, and I cannot pass judgment...and I was never a Woody Allen fan to begin with. Words that are read are rarely the full truth on either side, but I would never accuse a victim of lying... this is what this writer did, even though he is saying he didn't.
Edited to add:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4428403
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4429756
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4429054
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4428972
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024428965
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4428916
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4428759
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4428552
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4428266
And that was just the first few lines of the search results. I think it's been covered.
BainsBane
(53,055 posts)and sign off. I'm physically ill.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)I began to wonder where the hell I was.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)eleventy billion other threads?
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)has already been posted on DU about a hundred times.
A new member would think a large number of DUers are pedophile protectors.
BainsBane
(53,055 posts)This alleged perpetrator has a different occupation and religion. The crime is the same.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,749 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)I don't know if he did it or not, but it has been investigated and found to be false based on medical examinations as well as interviews. So we can't just assume he's guilty.
Just saying we don't know if he did it or not, even if you give more weight to Dylan's story, the facts of the investigations are there and should not be dismissed. That's all I'm saying.
BainsBane
(53,055 posts)There was just a decision this week in my area to not prosecute the local archdiocese for failure to report charges of sexual abuse.
I know that his daughter says he did it. You apparently think it's acceptable to suggest the girl is a liar. I don't call rape victims liars because I do not want to see rape and child abuse continue as it is, virtually without consequence in the case of adult rape and far too prevalent child abuse, precisely because victims are disbelieved. Woody Allen hasn't even denied the allegations,, but the fact he is male and famous is enough for people to rally behind him and smear his daughter. That is their choice. Just as some defend Assange and virtually every other accused rapist. We all make our choices in life. Mine will never involve standing behind an accused rapist or pedophile. I will always believe a credible victim. The fact he married the teenage daughter of his girlfriend was enough to tell me the man was scum. I didn't know whether the child abuse allegations were true until I read the girl's letter.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)by doctors that came up as saying there was no evidence anything happened.
I think you're wrong that Woody didn't deny the allegations, he held a press conference.
It's highly possible that Dylan was used as a pawn to get back at Woody.
But I'm not going to just discard the facts that are on the record.
Not sure why you are bringing Assange into this. My understanding of that is that he had consensual sex without condoms. Perhaps I didn't hear about a rape case with him?
This is a very emotional subject, and due to the fact that a lot of victims of rape and molestation are further victimized people react in a very emotional way, but in this case there have been investigations and medical examinations done and they said there was no evidence. The nanny says the same thing and said that Farrow was pressuring her to support the accusations and quit because of it. She wanted no part. So I'm just saying, there's a reason to cast doubt in this situation.
"Consensual sex without condoms." There is an arrest warrant for two accounts of sexual assault against Assange in Sweden that he is evading. That is why he is hiding out in the Ecuadorian embassy. It was consensual in his mind, but that again depends on disbelieving women who raise charges of abuse. The arrest warrant has been posted on this site multiple times. I myself posted it in HOF a couple of months ago. I brought it up because Assange is another person who benefits from most favored accused rapist status on this board. I could have added the Heisman trophy winner and virtually ever accused sexual predator since several people turn up to defend every single one, though not in the numbers Assange and Allen enjoy.
Woody Allen's rape apologist in the Daily Beast said that he did not address the recent letter by his daughter. That POS in the Daily Beast raised innuendo of Mia Farrow's adultery as some sort of defense for Woody Allen's alleged rape of his daughter. Now apparently it's not enough to attack the moral purity of rape victims but such allegations now extend from the victim's mother across generations. That more than anything shows the guy is desperate to excuse Allen and doesn't give a rat's ass about what happened to the daughter.
Your supposed facts are a failure to prosecute. You now have an adult woman's clear recollection and account of her repeated abuse at the hands of her father. That is enough for me. Many accounts by children and adult women are not believed because we lived in misogynist culture that elevates men and treats women and children as liars. That is exactly how and why only 3 percent of rapes result in jail time (even as short as thirty days).
Your Positivist appeal to facts in fact ignores all of the recent evidence. That the prosecutors disbelieved a seven year old child, or didn't believe the evidence strong enough to go to trial, does not negate Dylan's current testimony as an adult.
It is a very emotional subject. Child abuse destroys a person's life and impacts subsequent generations. I find your dig at rape victims offensive but entirely predictable. Emotion at hearing about the abuse of a child is a normal reaction that is part of human compassion. Suggesting that is somehow aberrant is a typical and transparent ploy. There is nothing inherently rational about believing accused predators over their victims or believing men over women. That is a clear demonstration of bias, a kind of bias I find unconscionable. I have my own bias, which I have been clear about. I will always believe a credible victim because I despise rape and child abuse.
20-25 percent of women in this country are victims of rape at some point in their lives. If you factor in physical abuse and other forms of sexual assault, the number climbs to 1 in 3. False allegations, according to the FBI, are exceedingly rare, yet somehow some people find a way to attack every victim and defend every perpetrator. The "facts" support nothing of the kind. The facts make clear that tens of millions of American women have been violated (as have a smaller number of boys and men). Yet somehow, someway, "facts" become a trope for excusing most of the men charged with those crimes. That has nothing to do with fact and everything to do with perpetrating rape culture.
Woody Allen will not stand trial. He faces no threat of paying for his crimes unless he reoffends (and I shudder to think how likely it is that is has and is reoffending). The only possible penalty he faces is social sanction. I and others have every right to denounce him and never watch any of his absurdly overrated movies for the rest of our lives. That is precisely what I intend to do.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)that making excerpts of the article just puts it into your own perspective and clarifies very little. The article, whether a valid argument or not, should stand on its own in its entirety and should stay the way the author wrote it.
My personal take on the article supports the position that making judgments about a particular family's bickering, motives or tragedy is beyond the ability of any of us Internet peepers to know... ever.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)As to the article standing on its own, it is linked to in my post. I selected what I did because I was surprised to see so many posts of disgust and shock that he is a pedophile, when investigations have shown otherwise.
I agree with your personal take.
polichick
(37,152 posts)Why would Mia let Ronan and/or the world think that Allen was his father if she believed the man to be such a sick criminal?
(I have no idea if Allen did it.)
Response to polichick (Reply #15)
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uppityperson
(115,678 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 2, 2014, 09:03 PM - Edit history (1)
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