Boasting “GM is Alive” may defeat Democrats this fall.

[MrTriumph]

Repeatedly, the President and Vice President have highlighted the post bankruptcy success of GM. There is no question to have allowed GM to fail 3 years ago would have inflicted great damage on our failed economy. (It should always be pointed out that our economy did not fail by unknown circumstances. It was destroyed by Wall Street).

As Main Street continues to struggle look for efforts of Democrats to focus on GM foster resentment.

It should not be forgotten GM had lost half its market share over 2 decades. The company was badly managed. Cars were poorly designed and poorly built. Any review of JD Powers surveys over that period can easily be read as indictments of GM managers, engineers and employees.

So why does Main Street hold the government bailout of GM with disgust? Simple. Because GM did not deserve the bailout.

Fellow Democrats, be warned about placing a spotlight on GM. People on Main Street are still laboring long hours for little reward as they labor to get though economic catastrophe not of their own making. Hearing rosy stories about GM’s fortunes after a government bailout won’t endear them to the Democrats who saved GM.

[The Magistrate]

1. Your Concern Is Noted. Sir

Especially in Michigan and Ohio....

[TheWraith]

13. +1. nt

[bluestateguy]

2. Look, it's an Oh Noes! post

nt

[dewawi]

3. Retired bondholders were wiped out

In my parents retirement community a lot of retirees got wiped out. Normally, bondholders are among the last to take a beating, being just behind secured creditors and wages. The way Obama did this reorganization he wiped them out and they feel the union came out ahead at their expense - which is basically correct.

[The Magistrate]

19. Damn, Sir, You Are Everywhere Talking Made-Up Smack Tonight

"The mind wobbles."

[muriel_volestrangler]

74. They're no longer with us, Sir

Their use of breitbart.com and cries of 'drill, baby, drill - GOD has told us to!' were too much.

[CTyankee]

75. unfortunately, what he says is true. I myself had a portion of my retirement investments in

those GM bonds. I got them initially because of their high return, and needed it for my frail, elderly mother to go into a Special Care Unit at her Assisted Living home. She died soon after but the investment was great while it lasted.

The mistake I made was making a decision while in a tough spot and betting too heaviliy on this financial product. But no one dreamed GM would so spectacularly go over a cliff...

I was, however, able to sell almost half of my investment to speculators, so with the money I had already made in income added, I console myself that I saved half of it.

Other DUers also commented at the time that they had lost a chunk of money on those GM bonds...

[Fawke Em]

24. That's not GM's fault. That, my friend, belongs to Wall Street.

Place blame where blame is due.

[MrTriumph]

90. Wall street did not build GM's poor quality vehicles for 20 years.

As I pointed out, Wall Street brought this depression upon us. But the point is GM was responsible for designing, engineering and building cars for over 20 years and, during that time, losing over 1/2 of their market share. Wall Street is not accountable for that.

And the broader point is this: As much as our country could not afford a GM bankruptcy followed by liquidation, GM was absolutely undeserving of the bailout.

[spanone]

45. manure

[dionysus]

85. sleep well, sweet, sweet prince...

[SidDithers]

4. Nonsense...

Sid

[Gman]

5. Maybe...

but it is an example of the the administration working to save jobs. Yes, it was badly managed, but when it was about to go under the best guy available, Ed Whitacre, who is also very union friendly came in and straightened it out. To attack GM now is also to attack Whitacre and that doesn't sit well with a lot of corporates.

[Schema Thing]

6. You have the brain of a newt.

[Zalatix]

82. I disagree with the OP but your insult was uncalled-for.

[Schema Thing]

89. you think "a santorum" would be more appropriate?

that's just mean!

[Skinner]

7. Here's an idea: Let's not tout any of our successes.

Some people don't like Obamacare -- let's not talk about that either.

We wouldn't want to offend any homophobes by talking about the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell.

The former Iraq war probably still has some fans. We wouldn't want them to find out it's over.

[Tarheel_Dem]

47. Damn Skinner, you don't post often, but when you do, it's worth the read.

[ZombieHorde]

87. I laughed. nt

[liberal N proud]

8. As GM goes, so goes the nation

Maybe not so much anymore, but as GM prospers, main street will catch up.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

9. Jawing defeat from the snatches of MrTriumph.

How does that go?

[Old and In the Way]

10. You do realize that, not saving GM/Chrylser would have also killed Ford?

Ford relies on the same supply chain these 2 Auto OEMs use. There'd have been a ripple effect far beyond GM and Chrysler's demise. A negative multiplier of at least 5X what we would have lost in these 2 automotive companies going down. A fundamental shock to our economy that would have triggered a real Depression. There was NO liquidity for a controlled bankruptcy to happen....it would have been lights out for the automotive industry, their workers, and the 100's of thousands of pensioners.

I can't believe I'm responding to this post.

[Fawke Em]

26. I'm glad you replied.

I'm a Ford owner, triple, (my hubby, my Mom and me and I have rights to all three). You are so correct!

[Arugula Latte]

11. "Saving a giant U.S. industry ... Can this be BAD for Democrats?!"

Fox News says "Yes!"

[steve2470]

12. GM did not deserve the bailout ?

Such compassion for auto workers.

[JBoy]

14. Speaking of poorly made, unreliable vehicles

[Snake Alchemist]

20. I had one of those. Put a corvette engine in it. Used to fishtail unbelievably. A lot of fun, but

VERY dangerous.

[Mopar151]

78. The skinny, hard, continuously smoking tires were the safety factor!

If it had "hooked up", the diff woulda grenaded. I've seen it happen with the original 1275 4 cyl. I think that the same rule applies to your monster, as it did to my friend, who had a flathead Ford V-8 in a Nash Metropolitan "You could get it to stop, maybe once...."

[Old and In the Way]

30. LMAO

Perfect...I had a buddy who had a TR-6...he figured he did about 1 hour of maintenance (himself or in the shop) for every hour he actually drove it.

[MgtPA]

39. God, I had a Spitfire in the 70's. Wouldn't start on humid days, and radio only worked

when the lights were on. Never again!!

[Mopar151]

77. The picture is not accurate

The young lady needs to be taking out the cardboard floor section to get at the crummy transmission, and 2 of those guys should be under the back end, replacing the gawdawful crappy differrential and the cheezy rubber CV joints.

I've been in sportscar clubs for 30+ years - All you need to do is say "Spitoon" or "Shitfire" and the guffaws and stories start. To be fair - On the rare occasion that the thing runs right, it's "top down" weather, and Joseph Lucas, Prince of Darkness has been banished, it is a joy to drive on a country road.

[ProSense]

15. Needs

visuals:

[Cali_Democrat]

16. LOL....you're kidding right?

That is one of the best things to beat the Republicans over the head with. Especially Rmoney.

[Canuckistanian]

17. The effort had to be made

Detroit is not just a city, but a symbol of American ingenuity and power.

To let it die unremarked and uncaring would have been a sin.

I have no love for GM, especially for what their culture did to destroy the electric car, which all of us could be driving today.

But I would have mourned it's passing if it was allowed to die.

[FSogol]

18. Unrec.

So much wrongness in a single post. "So why does Main Street hold the government bailout of GM with disgust?" They don't.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

21. Why thank you for that.......... I guess....

[Snake Alchemist]

22. So what car do you drive? nt

[MichiganVote]

23. This was an economic choice and it was a good one. 'Deserving'

has nothing to do with the price of beans. This is working, it will continue to work.

Two decades of mismanagement is small potatoes compared with the age, size and importance of this corporation.

In Michigan, we support it. Totally. And since Michigan has been a donor state to many other states in the country for more than two decades, well, I think you can imagine what we think of views to the contrary.

[neverforget]

25. All those workers would've been better off on unemployment

[jillan]

27. But people on "Main Street" jobs were saved because the auto industry was saved.

It's not just the car manufacturer.

It's the person that makes the parts.
The person that delivers the parts.
The dealerships.
The person who does the paperwork.

I don't have the figure for how many jobs were SAVED because of the auto bailout but it definitely is worth boasting about!

Sorry if you don't see that.

[Fool Count]

28. Saying that GM "does not deserve" to be alive is the same as saying that

US "does not deserve" to have domestically owned capacity to make cars and should leave
that business to more efficient foreign companies. Though it may, in some context, be true,
it definitely does not make for a good election slogan. So I'd go with "GM is Alive" thing,
particularly considering that the second part of that meme is an undisputed 100% winner.

[RobertEarl]

29. GM is Alive!!

Thank you President Obama and the Democratic congress. If the republican death dealers had their way the economic destruction would have hurt millions of people. Obama and the Democrats saved us from that.

[Fool Count]

33. Exactly. And Bin Laden is still dead! Take that austerity-mongering pseudo-patriots.

[elleng]

31. One of the first actions required by 'overseer,'

after U.S. 'takeover,' was remove the old guys and come up with NEW MANAGEMENT PLAN.

I suspect this acknowledgment has and will, in fact, 'endear them to the Democrats who saved GM.'

The truth WILL set us free.

[sharp_stick]

32. Thank you for informing us of this

I think we should immediately contact all Federal Democratic candidates and insist they back away from their support of GM and begin to back the puke line.

[Motown_Johnny]

34. Sorry but that sounds crazy to me

Bush and his insane tax cuts for SUVs contributed to the problem. (D)s helping clean up the mess is just par for the course.


IMO.. GM Is On Top Of The World and Bin Laden Is At The Bottom Of The Sea !!!

Say it loud, say it proud.

[scheming daemons]

35. The concern trolls are certainly working hard, arent they?

[Nye Bevan]

36. If companies like GM and AIG had been allowed to fail,

thousands more people would have joined the ranks of the unemployed.

[FarLeftFist]

37. BULLSHIT. TAKE THIS BS OVER TO BREITBART.

[AtomicKitten]

51. Ghost Breitbart isn't available right now but you can leave a message.

[HughBeaumont]

68. Better bring a flashlight and a couple of shovels!

[GoneOffShore]

38. Thanks for your concern.

Now go away.

[Ikonoklast]

40. If GM was allowed to fail, there would be no domestic auto manufacturers left.

Conservative estimates were that 3.5 million people would have lost their jobs, instantly throwing this nation (and Canada) into a Depression.

Yeah, that was a terrible thing to do, keep that disaster from coming to pass.

One of the biggest successes, and you take the Fox Snooze line that it was a failure.

[Historic NY]

43. +1 ... people forget Ford also went to DC looking for a grub stake

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2011/09/19/ford-looks-hypocritical-in-new-anti-bailout-commercial/
<snip>
It’s the first direct blow delivered by Ford since the two companies emerged from government-managed bankruptcies in the summer of 2009. Until now, Ford had largely avoided any public criticism of its two rivals. In fact, Ford chief executive Alan Mulally sat shoulder to shoulder with GM and Chrysler when they asked Congress for government help so that a collapse of the companies and their suppliers wouldn’t take down the entire industry. Now the gloves are off.

But wait a minute. OK, Ford didn’t file bankruptcy or get bailed out by Uncle Sam, but didn’t it receive $5.9 billion in low-cost government loans in 2009 to overhaul its factories and bring out more fuel-efficient technology? What would have happened to Ford if Congress hadn’t authorized taxpayer money to fund that $25 billion Energy Department program during a moment of crisis for the industry?

It’s hard to say, of course, but the fact is, with the aid of that taxpayer loan and a well-timed bank loan of $23 billion, Ford managed to tiptoe past the graveyard and avoid bankruptcy. Since then, it has run its business well and reduced its debt from $33.6 billion to $12.2 billion.
<snip>

[ProSense]

41. More

relevant posts:

Obama's True Brilliance Was Shown BEFORE the Rescue of the Domestic Auto Industry
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/1002367514

Made in America - Obama for America 2012 Ad
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002342712

[Swede]

42. MrT. I pity the poor fool that was and or is against the auto bailout.

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. Possibly the dumbest post of the year

That said, it is only March.

[onenote]

46. and the OP hasn't been tombstoned

so he/she has a chance to top his/her personal best! And you just know its possible.

[Old and In the Way]

53. We really need to have a forum to showcase threads like this.

Odd, he's not defending his thesis here. Oh well, at least he got an education. It's one of DU's not-for-profit services we provide.

[Tarheel_Dem]

48. I certainly don't wonder that you've abandoned this trainwreck of a thread.

I certainly hope you aren't a "Democratic" strategist, and if by chance you are, I hope you're severely underpaid.

[karynnj]

49. Even if you assume that the companies were extremely poorly managed, you can defend the bailout

because there were so many smaller companies that provide parts and services to Detroit, that would fail - no matter how well run.

Note that many using this argument were people who defended TARP, without which the financial industry could have failed. They were managed even worse - and took advantage of Bush SEC head Cox allowing leverage to go from 1:12 to 1:44. They made enormous profits before the House of Cards failed, exposing how over leveraged they were.

To me, the argument is from the authoritarian right wing perspective. The auto companies were irresponsible therefore they need to fail as a consequence - ignoring the pain that would result to people who did nothing wrong. Allowing the economy of Michigan and the surrounding states to crash harder than they did would have pulled the national economy down.

[babylonsister]

50. Hahaha! Name noted, who are your trollish friends? NOW we know, and you

will be watched! Or, you could slink away quietly.

[indykatie1955]

52. Similar to Northerner Make a Negative Post & Doesn't Stick Around for Discussion

Given that this post was an opinion and not a posted link to bad news for Obama and Democrats, one would expect further input from the poster. I would think that GM being saved would be one of the few very things that all DUers could agree on but apparently not.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

54. Shoot the messenger if you like,

But I don't believe I have met a soul in real life who has expressed support for either the Wall Street bailout or GM and Chrysler bailouts.

[Warren DeMontague]

57. California isn't exactly a swing state.

The Midwest is full of them.

And letting GM fail would have set off a tidal wave of economic repercussions that would have been felt far beyond that one company.

[Monk06]

55. GM is alive and increasing market share and yearly production. This is unprecidented since they were

Chapter 11 not long ago. This is good news especially in a world auto market
that has too many manufacturers for too few customers.

Two years ago I would have bet GM was going the way of the dinosaur. Yet it
is Peugeot, Renault and Fiat that are facing distinction. And all of these manufacturers
make decent affordable and techically up to date cars.

If the Fiat 500 dies then the world is in a very strange place.

Short answer. Capacity has to shrink. It's just a matter of whether it is in Europe or
Asia. My bet is Europe. In the end it will be the Camaro, Corvette, the Mustang and
the Dodge Ram and F 100 that will save the American auto industry, with Toyota filling i
n the gaps in the 'patriotic', 'Right To Work States'.

Anyone who bets against the American Auto industry is an idiot and Anti American, which
includes most Freepers. Except the pick up drivers.

[NNN0LHI]

58. Do you mind telling us what you do for a living?

I would like to scrutinize the quality of your past work.

Don

[SunsetDreams]

59. Did you forget the link to the Onion?

[SunsetDreams]

61. sO yOu dOn't like American autOmObile cOmpanies?

Can yOu explain this cOmment?

"Is it crazy to hate inadament objects if their demecrats?"

Did yOu mean inanimate? Oh and it's spelled DemOcrats.

[alferoutou]

65. Hate American Cars fine by me

so go ahead and buy a car made by the people who bombed Pearl Harbor or stuffed people into ovens instead.

Just remember that foreign cars are made here because America is in effect Europe’s and Japans Mexico.

Many parts of America are now the home of cheap non-union labor.

The European and Japanese auto makers are laughing at you all the way to the bank.

[Codeine]

66. Wow. nt

[Old and In the Way]

79. Not sure if it's crazy to hate inadament objects, but

it's a shame that you can't communicate here in your native language.

[uppityperson]

84. Only if their demecrats.

"Is it crazy to hate inadament objects if their demecrats?"

[Old and In the Way]

88. Another one bites the dust.

A shame, had he stuck around, we might have been able to help him with his grammar and diction.

[alferoutou]

62. Voters who are against the GM Bailout

Would not and will not vote for Obama anyway.

Heck if Obama found the cure for cancer they would still hate him and vote against him even if he gave the cancer cure away for free.

[DCBob]

63. Can we boast about this: "Let Detroit go Bankrupt" -- Mitt Romney, NYTimes OpEd, 2008

The success of the auto industry bailout and Romney's published arguments against it will probably be the most effective issue for the President re-election this fall.

[JHB]

64. As others have pointed out, failure of GM would have had a cascade effect...

...which would have taken out the whole damn industry and all the industries that support it and are supported by it. "Let them die" was economic insanity.

What the Democrats could be doing a lot better to offset resentment (which isn't necessarily due to RW media spinning, but is definitely egged on by it) is to go into that "why" of it. And into executive mismanagement. And into Wall Street.

But that would be harder, and entail more pushback, than "GM is alive".

[Old and In the Way]

81. It would also take more than single sentence/phrase talking points to explain

to the low information voter that typically votes against their best interests. The "Drill, Baby, Drill" crowd would get angry if it took someone a few paragraphs to explain the situation.

[Codeine]

67. "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life.

Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf

[Atman]

69. Please allow me to pinch another loaf onto your turd pile.

Really. What a dumb rant.

[HughBeaumont]

70. Oh look, a drive-by concern post.

That's what was missing.

[deacon]

71. Thud. n/t

[marmar]

72. Extraordinary Fail.

nt

[sarcasmo]

73. This is what the unrec button was for.

[DemocracyInaction]

76. Scared much?

Hmmm...sounds like the anti-American repukes know this is a winning talking point and a grave stone for Mr. "Dog on Car"

[DefenseLawyer]

80. As the kids like to say: FAIL. n/t

[Old and In the Way]

83. MrTriumph, where are you? You have a thesis fail that needs tending to.

[The Second Stone]

86. GM alive and Bin Ladin dead

two things Republicans couldn't and wouldn't accomplish.

I'm none too happy about the GM and Chrysler bailouts, but it is far better than a full on economic depression. Romney's repeated position that he would not have done what was necessary is sufficient evidence that I don't want him in charge of any company or government that I am a worker or citizen of.