Is an economic recovery possible if

[Harmony Blue]

most of the population of the United States shifts from consumerism to minimalism? All the useless items made now seem like a waste and sit on store shelves. It seems to me like the golden goose that lays the golden egg is no more if people don't have wages that can provide extra income to spend on useless junk.

Am I wrong?

[grasswire]

1. meanwhile, today Nordstrom announced two store closings in Portland.

One of them in place for fifty years.

And Radio Shack is closing 500 stores.

[2naSalit]

2. This could be the start

of a good thing. People who can't afford to buy new junk make better use of what they have and learn to recycle and/or barter items. What's good bout that is that it will facilitate starving the beast that is killing us. If we aren't buying their crap, they become insignificant, people will adapt to a new system of currency that cuts out the crooks who have put us in this place.

It could happen and sooner than many suspect.

[Adrahil]

3. Part of me thinks...

... that with the shift to globalism, the plutocrats don't really case what happens here. And their Republican dupes are smart enough to realize it. The other part of me think that NONE of them really were smart enough to realize that bleeding the working and middle classes dry would mean the slow death of a consumer-driven economy. Either way, there's a whole lotta stupidity going on over there on the right.

[democratisphere]

4. NO.

The wealthaholics are choking the economic stuffing out of those that bought ALL of their worthless crap. Disposable income for disposable crap has dried up. More and more former mass quantity consumers are now in survival mode. In a faux economy that is approximately 70% consumer based, it doesn't take a navigator to figure out where our economic Titanic is headed.

[Egalitarian Thug]

8. And no one is even trying to correct course. n/t

[democratisphere]

12. Agreed. When you know you're going to CRASH, why would you.......

continue to push on the accelerator and stay the course. Frustrating as hell.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. A consumer economy without consumers isn't going to end well.

[Egalitarian Thug]

6. If most of the American population went minimalist, the economy would collapse.

We paid for the goose to move off-shore years ago, so it will likely be fine, but we're still fucked.

[RobertEarl]

9. We are headed for minimalism

So what will we look like whence we've arrived?

One, a much wider-based mass transportation system.

Two, lots more vacation time and lower wages.

Three, homes smaller and closer together and cleaner air and water.

[Egalitarian Thug]

10. Possibly. The problem I see is that once it has progressed to the point I think we're talking about,

we won't have the capital to do those things. The parasites aren't just walking away and leaving us to our own devices, they are burying us in debt to finance their world.

The inevitable resurgence of entrepreneurship will be mostly good and the major reduction in consumption will be good, but these things will not be taking place in a vacuum.

Look at what the first world did to South America and extrapolate that to the U.S. Will we be allowed the option of telling the financiers to fuck off? Are American prepared to live within our means on a national scale?

We could do very well all by ourselves in most respects, but we no longer have even the infrastructure to rebuild a manufacturing sector, our water, sanitation, power, and transportation infrastructures are antiquated at best and more commonly crumbling. And even our natural resources are being plundered at such a rate that there's no guarantee we will have enough left by the time they're through with us. We will be starting over and I'm not convinced that Americans are willing to do that.

[RobertEarl]

11. 'Willing to do that'

Indeed, I don't see the same work ethic as when I was young. Heck, i don't have the same work ethic. Can't say i blame the young for the lack, it seems the harder you work the less chance you have of enjoying the simple life.

One thing we have, the one thing the world needs, is our food. That is our best card to play globally. It can pay many bills and keep the wolf at the door.

The US has 310 M of the world's 7 B. We are a minority. Our navy is what keeps us as a super power and we can't afford that much longer with the declining wages leading to declining tax revenue to pay for that Navy.

In a sense, the US is old and needs to just retire already. Take it easy. Relax. Accept the deflation. And put together a new WPA- Works Progress Administration, for our infrastructure. But, like you say: are we "willing to do that"? I think the young would go for it.

[Egalitarian Thug]

13. The current generation coming up does give me hope.

Their parents, my generation, are pretty much worthless and my parent's generation should either be out in the streets helping their grand kids or hiding in shame.

I think we're on the same page, and we can indeed retake our food production capacity as long as we protect our water, but there again we're seeing a concerted effort to destroy that resource by the plundering parasites.

For of all sad words of tongue or pen,
The saddest are these: "It might have been!"
- John Greenleaf Whittier

[RobertEarl]

14. Heh

We are a sorry lot, are we not?

Yes, we are on the same page. Having seen in my lifetime a burning river and seeing the actions taken to keep that from being a regular occurrence, has given me hope. I think the young do appreciate that aspect of the good we have done. It's weird, tho, i get bashed for working to keep other pollutants from polluting our world. Mainly from members in our age bracket. Youngsters have lauded me tho, so there is that.

I tell the young the best they can do to protect themselves is find some land. Land is wealth and security. Just ask the few remaining Native Americans.

[Egalitarian Thug]

15. Good advice. I'm working on that right now.

Our current dilemma is whether to buy a very small piece of a sane state, or a much nicer and larger piece of a borderline batshit crazy state that is showing signs of potential sanity, but also has a very long history of choosing badly.

[RobertEarl]

16. More is better

More allows a better chance to gather more water and be able to keep it clean. Plus it allows for more people to live on and work the land.

The way things are going, the state is going to have its hands full taking care of the violent people. People who are quiet and keep to themselves will be left alone. So being far away from the centers of activity, no matter where, would, imo, be a prime objective.

[Egalitarian Thug]

18. That state is Kentucky and I've worked there many times as well as attending the annual ritual of

The Grand Nationals has given me a fairly good picture of life there.

We can pick up very good land in the Bluegrass region at great prices and the ongoing expenses are negligible. But the thing is that we will never be accepted in our lifetimes down there.

An acquaintance of mine has lived in Tennessee for almost 30 years and the locals still call his place The (insert family name of the people he bought it from) Place. It's not like they openly dislike his family, but it is constantly made clear, even to this day, that his family are not one of them. Maybe his kids or grand-kids will be, but he and his wife won't ever get there.

The other place is southern Oregon, and I lived and worked there for a few of years as well. But they have a whole different assortment of problems, the land isn't nearly as good, and water is a growing problem. Ms. Thug and I are both westerners, so we are more confident dealing with Oregonians and the government is a little less sketchy, but there is a significant influence from California, which I already rejected as just too dysfunctional to tolerate a decade ago.

The last option is another country altogether, but that's a total crap shoot.

[Egalitarian Thug]

17. About our cadre, I have almost nothing to do with people my(52)/our age anymore.

With very few exceptions, I find them to be completely self-absorbed, ossified, authoritarians. They rarely have anything of relevance to say, let alone offering solutions, so I've decided that life is way too short to spend any more of it listening to their libertarian fantasies and complaints about how they can't steal as much as they used to.

Nope, it's the under 30s that carry our hope, IMO.

[Rex]

7. Recovery only possible if we give workers a living wage.

nt.