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Oppressed Majority (possible trigger - warning) (Original Post) boston bean Feb 2014 OP
Kind of a leap of faith there Orrex Feb 2014 #1
It's about the oppressed majority. boston bean Feb 2014 #2
Actually, those of us who know and appreciate chervilant Feb 2014 #7
+1 cinnabonbon Feb 2014 #12
"I wish the sexists and misogynists in this forum would watch and strive to empathize." Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #15
Or, chervilant Feb 2014 #17
hubris. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #64
Golly! Orrex Feb 2014 #19
Just keep telling yourself that. chervilant Feb 2014 #20
My apple cart is fine, thanks. Orrex Feb 2014 #26
Your disclaimer is unnecessary; chervilant Feb 2014 #43
**self delete** Orrex Feb 2014 #57
Well, I wanted to continue watching past the 2 minute mark. boston bean Feb 2014 #21
Okay, I've watched it from start to finish. Orrex Feb 2014 #24
You seem unusually concerned that others will doubt, sight unseen, that it was worth their time. Squinch Feb 2014 #31
Most persons are getting something from it. There is some reason to be happy with that! boston bean Feb 2014 #37
I'm good! I was going to try to stay away from DU today, so I could get Squinch Feb 2014 #41
Just been really busy with work and with life. boston bean Feb 2014 #42
Thursday night I shoveled out my car - AGAIN Squinch Feb 2014 #55
Who, in your view, is the target audience? Orrex Feb 2014 #38
How do you know who's clicked and hasn't commented boston bean Feb 2014 #39
It's basic psychology, no? Orrex Feb 2014 #46
So you would have preferred this not be posted in GD? boston bean Feb 2014 #52
**self delete** Orrex Feb 2014 #61
Who is the target audience? Well, it depends on how you approach it. Squinch Feb 2014 #49
Hmm. Orrex Feb 2014 #65
Let me point out though, that you still seem to think that the most important Squinch Feb 2014 #68
Maybe I should restate Orrex Feb 2014 #70
The difference might be subtle. The others are talking about whether they liked the film Squinch Feb 2014 #83
Then that's my fault for being unclear Orrex Feb 2014 #87
well, it masterfully played with my expectations. I identified with the guy, felt bad for him, BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #54
I find that hard to believe hfojvt Feb 2014 #72
Every single day? MadrasT Feb 2014 #78
that I also find hard to believe hfojvt Feb 2014 #82
Not in the mood to engage in this diversion. MadrasT Feb 2014 #84
and me hfojvt Feb 2014 #86
Then you are obviously not in a female body. Ms. Toad Feb 2014 #98
and you are not living in a male body hfojvt Feb 2014 #102
You expressed disbelief that the statement accurately reflected women's experience. Ms. Toad Feb 2014 #104
you have been horribly abused hfojvt Feb 2014 #107
It is actually fairly typical - which is the point. Ms. Toad Feb 2014 #109
That is interesting. MadrasT Feb 2014 #77
Me too. It made me realize how unthinkable it would be for me to treat anyone Squinch Feb 2014 #79
For me, it wasn't too long at all. I can imagine that someone uncomfortable with the message JDPriestly Feb 2014 #94
Kick and rec davekriss Feb 2014 #36
I've been wishing that for years now. Jamastiene Feb 2014 #80
I won't even start it without SOME idea/info. nt tblue37 Feb 2014 #53
Well, then! Squinch Feb 2014 #56
Usually I'm the same. AZCat Feb 2014 #60
I don't think a woman could watch much of it without recognizing right away what it is about. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #93
That was really good. MadrasT Feb 2014 #3
yes, it was uncomfortable for me as well. boston bean Feb 2014 #5
boston bean -- might you consider adding a trigger warning to the OP? MadrasT Feb 2014 #4
good idea. done. thanks. boston bean Feb 2014 #6
Thanks! MadrasT Feb 2014 #8
K&R... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #33
A trigger warning boston bean Feb 2014 #45
Thanks. nt awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #48
Including the message "trigger warning" is a courtesy MadrasT Feb 2014 #47
Thanks for the link. nt awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #51
k&r chervilant Feb 2014 #9
It really struck me too. boston bean Feb 2014 #10
Ironic, isn't it, chervilant Feb 2014 #13
DU Rec Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #11
Excellent! Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #14
Didn't watch but it's not ok for anybody to assault anybody DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2014 #35
The message of this video is much deeper than "assault is bad". MadrasT Feb 2014 #50
Watched it in its entirety DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2014 #59
Makes it all painfully clear. Well done. DamnYankeeInHouston Feb 2014 #16
K&R Whisp Feb 2014 #18
This well done film was excruciating to watch - Mira Feb 2014 #22
Yeah it was. boston bean Feb 2014 #23
K&R Starry Messenger Feb 2014 #25
At first I thought this was just a joke . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #27
You're welcome. Glad to have posted to give others a chance to view. boston bean Feb 2014 #30
K and R 1monster Feb 2014 #28
How about a not safe for work warning? TransitJohn Feb 2014 #29
K&R Chorophyll Feb 2014 #32
That was great. Squinch Feb 2014 #34
Powerful. LWolf Feb 2014 #40
Excellent!!! DeSwiss Feb 2014 #44
I have a clothing ratio for how seriously I take anything on TV and movies in particular..... marble falls Feb 2014 #58
I understand your concern cinnabonbon Feb 2014 #67
No doubt about it, TV has skewed values and behavior norms. The violence against women ... marble falls Feb 2014 #76
I agree with you. Media has a lot to answer for cinnabonbon Feb 2014 #89
I've had that pet peeve since childhood. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #69
Its like "don't listen to me, look at her." marble falls Feb 2014 #74
K&R because clever! JNelson6563 Feb 2014 #62
Watched it. westerebus Feb 2014 #63
Powerful film CFLDem Feb 2014 #66
Interesting film... PosterChild Feb 2014 #71
K & R SunSeeker Feb 2014 #73
Thank you for posting this video. justhanginon Feb 2014 #75
K&R Jamastiene Feb 2014 #81
Powerful video. MH1 Feb 2014 #85
K&R me b zola Feb 2014 #88
TV Tropes rrneck Feb 2014 #90
You just don't get it, do you? msanthrope Feb 2014 #110
Well done!!! 2naSalit Feb 2014 #91
Excellent. I posted this video under Feminism. Thanks. Everyone should see it. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #92
I watched the whole thing Loaded Liberal Dem Feb 2014 #95
KnR sheshe2 Feb 2014 #96
A truly fabulous amuse bouche Feb 2014 #97
K&R! countryjake Feb 2014 #99
I like the French twist to this theme. CTyankee Feb 2014 #100
Thanks Boston Bean Chiquitita Feb 2014 #101
k&r N/T myrna minx Feb 2014 #103
Did an excellent job of showing many issues women face. redqueen Feb 2014 #105
They got in about as many issues as I'd expect in an 11-min short... Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #108
Wonderfully done Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #106
What is it with France? burfman Feb 2014 #111

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
1. Kind of a leap of faith there
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 10:50 AM
Feb 2014

Posting an 11-minute video with no commentary.


I wonder how many will watch it all the way through without having any idea what it's about before they click on it.

boston bean

(36,222 posts)
2. It's about the oppressed majority.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 10:51 AM
Feb 2014

How they are treated, how they feel, but the shoe on the other foot. Give it a whirl and let me know your thoughts.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
7. Actually, those of us who know and appreciate
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 11:10 AM
Feb 2014

Boston Bean's feminist activism will use our critical thinking skills to suss the focus of the video. I did, and I watched it. I'm glad she posted this video, and I wish the sexists and misogynists in this forum would watch and strive to empathize.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
15. "I wish the sexists and misogynists in this forum would watch and strive to empathize."
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 11:26 AM
Feb 2014

They either won't watch it, accuse BB of false equivalency or justify male behavior because, well, apparently, "boys must be boys."

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
19. Golly!
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 11:49 AM
Feb 2014

I'm sure that your thoughtful reply will inspire the sexists and misogynists who lack your critical thinking skills to view the video in its entirety.

Others may be hesitant to check it out without some idea of its content, regardless of who posted the link. This has nothing to do with misogyny or sexism or a lack of critical thinking skills and everything to do with the fact that it's a vanishingly rare YouTube video that's worth watching past the two-minute mark.

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
26. My apple cart is fine, thanks.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:12 PM
Feb 2014

I would submit that I'm not the enemy that you seem to want to believe I am, and in any case a mild criticism is not a sexist or misogynist attack.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
43. Your disclaimer is unnecessary;
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:48 PM
Feb 2014

I'm sure you're confident about your apple cart.

Interesting, though, that you leap to the conclusion that I see you as "the enemy." You might want to examine that. You are on my list of members who regularly criticize, deride, minimize, belittle, derogate and/or snark threads on porn, rape, rape culture and other feminist issues. Given your response herein above, I doubt you'll examine that -- apple cart, and all...

boston bean

(36,222 posts)
21. Well, I wanted to continue watching past the 2 minute mark.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 11:56 AM
Feb 2014

It was that good.

I don't think I need to give a summary... and the thread will sink, grow, or whatever. Thanks for the advice. I'll post how I would like. Or someone else could view it and make another thread.

Did you happen to watch past the 2 min mark? If so, what are your thoughts?

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
24. Okay, I've watched it from start to finish.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:05 PM
Feb 2014

Well executed, I agree, and it certainly makes the point. The most effective element IMO is the way the lead character conveyed his dismay and helplessness at the fact that, having identified the absurdity of the oppression, he was still largely powerless to change it or even to find allies among the equally oppressed. Rather like real life, I should think, for the people who do actually live under that kind of oppression.

Don't you find it fairly conventional, though? I mean, I watched very similar films in my Women's Studies classes in the early 90s, so the current video seems like more of the same.

Obviously, the fact that the message bears repeating is itself significant, but short of a captive audience (like the guy who sat in the back row of the aforementioned class), I don't know that anyone who really needs to watch it will sit all the way through.


I can see why you didn't post a summary, but I would think that the video would convey its message more effectively (to an audience that really needs to see it) in a more compressed format (with an awareness of the two-minute YouTube issue).


Squinch

(50,956 posts)
31. You seem unusually concerned that others will doubt, sight unseen, that it was worth their time.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:28 PM
Feb 2014

You report that you found it too long, too unconcerned with the YouTube time issue, whatever that is, too repetitive to things you have already seen, too 90's. You report that you don't see why anyone would be interested enough to sit all the way through it.

Given that you found it so inconsequential, your concern about it seems to be misplaced.

I sat through it. Thought it was great.

boston bean

(36,222 posts)
37. Most persons are getting something from it. There is some reason to be happy with that!
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:31 PM
Feb 2014

On another note... how you been? Been seeing all around, but I haven't had much time for posting lately.

Squinch

(50,956 posts)
41. I'm good! I was going to try to stay away from DU today, so I could get
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:43 PM
Feb 2014

some work done. It doesn't seem to be working!

How are you doing?

boston bean

(36,222 posts)
42. Just been really busy with work and with life.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:45 PM
Feb 2014

But that is a good thing. Wish this winter would end though. I'm about at my wits end with the cold, ice, snow.

Squinch

(50,956 posts)
55. Thursday night I shoveled out my car - AGAIN
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 01:03 PM
Feb 2014

and went to sleep. Woke up for work Friday, and found that they had plowed 4 feet of ice behind all the cars parked on my street. Took me from 7 till 11 with a few rests to shovel myself and the car belonging to the old couple who live next to me out of the ice, and had to call out from work!

I love winter, but I won't be sorry to see this one go!

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
38. Who, in your view, is the target audience?
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:35 PM
Feb 2014

Is it targeted at people already sympathetic to the message and therefore more likely to watch all the way through? The positive feedback in this thread seems to confirm that people already on board with the message have no trouble watching it.

Or is it aimed at people who are resistant to that message? What makes you think that such an audience will watch it in its entirety?


Also, what did you think was great about it, exactly?

boston bean

(36,222 posts)
39. How do you know who's clicked and hasn't commented
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:38 PM
Feb 2014

and from there what they may or may not have taken away from this short film?

The thread is fine, the posting of it is fine. Your concern is duly noted.

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
46. It's basic psychology, no?
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:52 PM
Feb 2014

If someone posted an 11-minute video on a topic in which you had no interest or to which you were unsympathetic, how far long would you watch it before bailing?

If the intent is to inspire people to consider another point of view when they are not already inclined to do so, then I submit that the length is not ideal to this intent. That's why pre-movie commercials are usually shorter than 11 minutes, for example.

If the intent is to appeal to the sensibilities of people who already agree with the message of the video, then 11 minutes is just fine.

If the intent of the OP was to invite feedback, then it seems to me that thoughtful feedback would be welcome, even if it isn't purely positive.


If the intent instead was to get an unflinchingly positive response, well, there's a group for that.

boston bean

(36,222 posts)
52. So you would have preferred this not be posted in GD?
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:55 PM
Feb 2014

People are very welcome to make non positive responses. I can't possibly stop that now, can I? Hell it's never stopped 'em before.

And my non comment to anything else you have stated does not imply agreement. I just don't feel like arguing the minutiae about target audiences with you.

Squinch

(50,956 posts)
49. Who is the target audience? Well, it depends on how you approach it.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:53 PM
Feb 2014

For those who approach posts for "youtube issue" rule-following, and who feel that they need to thoroughly critique the formats of posts they are not interested in, and who are very concerned with pointing out those videos that some people might not click on, YOU definitely are that target audience, and seem to be having a great time with that. So enjoy.

As far as the content, the target is anyone who either has or has not considered what pervasive sexism looks like. For those who have experienced it, it is validating. For those who have not experienced it, it is instructive.

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
65. Hmm.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 01:39 PM
Feb 2014
As far as the content, the target is anyone who either has or has not considered what pervasive sexism looks like. For those who have experienced it, it is validating. For those who have not experienced it, it is instructive.
Now that's a very strong point that I hadn't considered. I'm still not convinced that a hostile audience will watch it, but it's entirely reasonable to offer it to a receptive audience seeking validation for their experiences of daily oppression.

You have convinced me, and shame on me for not seeing it sooner.
I hereby withdraw my previous objection and apologize for gumming up the thread.


Upon re-reading the preceding sentence, I see that it looks like snark, but I truly don't mean it that way.


Squinch

(50,956 posts)
68. Let me point out though, that you still seem to think that the most important
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 01:47 PM
Feb 2014

issue with this post is whether or not you are convinced it is valid. You need to rethink that, too.

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
70. Maybe I should restate
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 01:56 PM
Feb 2014

*Your* articulation struck me as valid and thereby convinced me of my error in dismissing the film out of turn.

You have caused me to reconsider my response re: the film's validity. I don't know what more I can offer, since everyone else is likewise offering their own responses re: the film's validity.

Squinch

(50,956 posts)
83. The difference might be subtle. The others are talking about whether they liked the film
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:46 PM
Feb 2014

or not. You appeared to be questioning whether this thread should exist because of your objections to it. You seemed to need to be very vocal about your desire to dismiss the OP.

I often dismiss OP's because they don't speak to me. When I do, I don't need to post all my reasons for doing so. I assume that there is some value to others, because obviously there was some value to the poster. I know that any given thread isn't required to appeal to me.

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
87. Then that's my fault for being unclear
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 03:10 PM
Feb 2014

Others in the thread have expressed the opinion that providing a brief summary or comment about a video's subject--especially a comparatively long one--is basic netiquette. It's on par with not including "NSFW" or "trigger warning," and I note that both of these concerns were expressed elsewhere in the discussion.

That was my initial point, though I subsequently got sidetracked.

I often dismiss OP's because they don't speak to me. When I do, I don't need to post all my reasons for doing so.
Maybe that's the lesson for me.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
54. well, it masterfully played with my expectations. I identified with the guy, felt bad for him,
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 01:02 PM
Feb 2014

felt afraid for him, felt enraged for him at his powerlessness against an entire social norm.

Felt relieved that I (and the characters I immediately identify with--the women--) weren't being treated that way. They had power, which is not our everyday reality. So it felt good to "be powerful" for a moment….

And then, at the end, the sudden twist that brings us back to the reality that, indeed, we women are living that reality. A punch to the gut.


So, that's what's so great about it. For women watching it.

For men…..well, first, a male viewer would need to be interested in gaining empathy. A perspective other than their own...…walking a mile in a high heel….feeling for the main character as a fellow man and then extrapolating to women.

Perhaps there are women in your life you care about, and would like to see more clearly and feel for them?

To be able to go to a female friend and say, I understand more of what you live with, and I stand with you, more than ever……now that would be a positive outcome.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
72. I find that hard to believe
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:00 PM
Feb 2014

as a general statement.

"They had power, which is not our everyday reality."

In my everyday reality, it seems like the women have at least as much, if not more power than I do.

And they know it.

Maybe that is just because of my status on the totem pole. That being at the bottom of society everybody has power over me, in SPITE of my Y chromosome.

this video just does NOT seem like "what you live with" on an average day for most women.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
78. Every single day?
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:21 PM
Feb 2014

At almost age 50, well established in my career, and no longer bothering to present as obviously female? Maybe not.

Still often enough that the video resonated very strongly? And reminiscent of scenes from my past too frequent to enumerate?

Absolutely.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
82. that I also find hard to believe
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:35 PM
Feb 2014

"too frequent to enumerate"

As a math major, I know of no such "frequency."

Impocerous!

There are 366.25 days in a year. 1,440 minutes in a day, and sixty seconds in a minute.

As such, I have been alive 18,946 days or 27,282,240 minutes or about 1,636,934,400 seconds

OR (and here he grits his teeth)

1.64 times ten to the 18th nano-seconds of which I "wasted" about 3 times ten to the 11th writing this post.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
86. and me
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:59 PM
Feb 2014

I am late for my weekly lap swim

but I am still not telling you to fuck off.

The list of numbers.


That was supposed to be funny.


Clearly I gotta work on my act.

Ms. Toad

(34,076 posts)
98. Then you are obviously not in a female body.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 09:43 AM
Feb 2014

Granted, advancing to rape or physisical sexual assault does not happen every day - but the rest either happens daily or the threat from the previous day lingers enough that I always hesitate when I enter the parking garage where my car is parked, or when I leave the building after most of my co-workers

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
102. and you are not living in a male body
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 12:53 PM
Feb 2014

I see a number of women every day, and most of them seem confident and self-assured. At least as powerful as I am. Like I said.

"In my everyday reality, it seems like the women have at least as much, if not more power than I do."

I might be just as nervous in a parking garage. Sometimes men get killed in them too http://pix11.com/2013/12/15/breaking-short-hills-mall-on-lockdown-reports-of-a-shooting/#axzz2swCq3jCV

The rest of what? Random guys on the street or even groups of guys make crude or suggestive statements about your body, every day? Every other day? Once a week?

Ms. Toad

(34,076 posts)
104. You expressed disbelief that the statement accurately reflected women's experience.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 01:09 PM
Feb 2014

I was sexually abused by a stranger who started by making suggestive statements about my body when I was 12 years old. Around the same time, a classmate grabbed my breast in class, in the presence of the rest of the class and neither the teacher nor my classmates did anything more than giggle. I was molested by my brother at around the same age. I was raped my freshman year in college by a stranger - again by someone who started by making crude or suggestive statements. Those are the bigger events which stand out in my memory - but there have been large parts of my life during which the comments were a daily occurrence.

Although I have refused to allow my conscious behavior to be controlled by reality based fear that my experience with sexual abuse has instilled in me, for two decades after that, I unconsciously made myself invisible by packing on 50-75 extra pounds. During that period the cat calls were less frequent - perhaps only once every couple of weeks, or once a month. I lost most of that weight when I was moving into a new job. Dressing for a prison visit shocked me into awareness of why I had been carrying all that weight when I found myself pawing desperately through my closet for something to wear to make me look fat. I still struggle with the eating habits I developed trying to maintain invisibility - and every time I lose weight the crude or suggestive statements pick up to a pace that is at least once a week.

The fact that this experience, and this frequency of sex used as a weapon is incomprehensible to you explains you you believe men have it just as bad as women. You literally have no clue.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
107. you have been horribly abused
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 03:17 PM
Feb 2014

I don't think that is an experience of most women.

Most women are not gonna say "I was sexually assaulted at age 12" and "I was raped my freshman year" and "I was molested by my brother".

I am sorry that you went through that, but that does not equate to the experience of all women.

And if there is one comment a week or even one comment a day that makes you feel vulnerable, there is still the rest of the day and the rest of the week for you to have power.

My own perspective would say that
1. Yes there are some really nasty and dangerous people in this world. Many of them men. Shoot, that one beautiful young girl was just shopping at Target at about 6 pm when she was kidnapped, raped and then killed by some piece of excrement who is now serving life in prison.

2. But at the same time, there is a much larger population of mostly decent people, many of them men.

Most even semi-attractive women know that if they say "jump" that a good percentage of men will jump up and ask "how high?" That, in fact, many men will volunteer to help whether the women ask for it or not. Not because they think women are helpless or need the help, but because they want, even if just for a moment, that woman's approval.

I don't look at is as negative, as in "just as bad", but other than people who are victims of severe trauma - rape, assault, homicide,. Excluding those people, women seem, in this society, to have it "just as good" as most men, if not better.

Ms. Toad

(34,076 posts)
109. It is actually fairly typical - which is the point.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 11:53 PM
Feb 2014

My experiences range from the fairly mundane every day drip of sexism and harassment,to the extreme. But the fact that it is ever present takes a toll on every woman I have ever discussed it with - and I have discussed it with many women. I've also recently done a bit of blogging about the emotional impact of living in a society which uses the explicit or implicit threat of rape as a weapon. The response was pretty overwhelming. Many echoed my experience publicly on my facebook page where I linked it, and many more responded to me privately - thanking me for letting them know they were not alone in their experience. None disagreed - or suggested that was outside the realm of her experience.

Personally, I am far from powerless - nor do I allow it to consciously impact how I live. As an example, my current boss is upset with me because I occasionally choose to stay in my office to finish my work after the building in which I have my office has closed. I have a door which locks, and I am careful when I leave. I have no idea what her personal experiences are - but what she is afraid of (and how restricted her own life is) is very obvious from the tug-of-war we have about me staying late. Staying late also means I frequently walk after dark to my car in an enclosed garage. If someone I trusted offered - or was walking that way - I would not reject company. But I will not live my life in a box to make myself safe.

But the point isn't what portion of the day I have power. It isn't whether there are good men around - I certainly know plenty. The omnipresent threat that the use of sex as a weapon has on virtually all women, including me, has a cumulative emotional impact that (at least straight cis) men cannot understand because they do not live in a skin which is constantly the object of that threat.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
77. That is interesting.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:16 PM
Feb 2014

When I watched it, I did not feel relieved to (vicariously) "have power". It made me feel uncomfortable that I share the same biological sex as the women in that video, because they were treating the "other" so unfairly and with such a narrow lens.

It felt... squicky to me.

Squinch

(50,956 posts)
79. Me too. It made me realize how unthinkable it would be for me to treat anyone
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:28 PM
Feb 2014

the way I am often treated.

However, the relief part was there too. The idea that the woman was perfectly safe on the dark road at night (till reality broke in) or that another woman was peeing in public with no repercussions. Those women did seem safe in a way we never do.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
94. For me, it wasn't too long at all. I can imagine that someone uncomfortable with the message
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 04:46 PM
Feb 2014

might feel a certain discomfort and impatience in watching it.

In my opinion it was just the right length. Had it been shorter it would not have conveyed the endless tedium that sexual harassment brings to a woman's life. The horror of knowing that if you smile too much at someone, they will think you are flirting. The constant questioning "Why me?" "Am I being too friendly?" "If I wear a skirt, will they stare at my legs or listen to what I have to say?" "Should I wear a sweater?" "Could I go without a bra just this once? The elastic in my bra makes my back itch?" "Is my boss more interested in my bra size than in my work?" "Is the interviewer thinking about what his wife will say if he hires a pretty woman as his secretary and maybe the one with about as much charm as a staff sergeant would be a better bet?" or worse yet, "Maybe if I offer a raise, she'll sleep with me."

I have not begun to express just how tedious sexual harassment is. Here's another one: "You look just like Demi Moore or Marilyn Monroe." REALLY. Shall I tell my husband how lucky he is?

The film is effective. It touches a nerve. And it is HONEST.

I don't usually focus on feminist issues, but that video struck a nerve, made me think back to the nightmare moments of my youth like another student saying when he learned I had an A in a course: "Boy, professor so-and-so sure grades on the curve?"

Finito.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
80. I've been wishing that for years now.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:30 PM
Feb 2014

I've been wishing the same thing about the homophobes. Every once in a while, one of them finally gets PPRed/TSed. The rest of the time, they just poke us and torture us. My grandmother had a saying about wishing for the impossible; wish in one hand, shit in the other and see which one gets full the quickest. Sadly, that probably applies to our wishes in this case.

AZCat

(8,339 posts)
60. Usually I'm the same.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 01:22 PM
Feb 2014

It's a rare youtube video that I'll watch without at least a brief summary.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
93. I don't think a woman could watch much of it without recognizing right away what it is about.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 04:33 PM
Feb 2014

It really describes the experience of young women in our society. And the US is not nearly as bad as some other countries.

I remember how my oldest daughter could not walk home from high school without hearing all kinds of comments about her appearance.


Truth is she dressed very conservatively and was extremely shy, an excellent student (Phi Beta Kappa, etc.) but a blond living in a minority neighborhood. It was really tough and it took her a long time to get over all the harassment she endured as a young girl.

She was just a kid. Men, leave women alone. Keep your thoughts to yourselves. Women don't want to be reminded of your sexual prowess as they walk down the street.

Especially leave young girls alone. They think you are old and decrepit at 19. Just leave them alone.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
3. That was really good.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 11:03 AM
Feb 2014

It made me uncomfortable and squirmy to see the role reversals... and I'm female.

Really highlights how fucked up it is to deal with what we have to deal with living in female bodies.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
4. boston bean -- might you consider adding a trigger warning to the OP?
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 11:07 AM
Feb 2014

I really appreciate the video but it was tough to watch.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
33. K&R...
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:29 PM
Feb 2014

Sad that this will fly over some heads. I have to ask, since I have been seeing it lately- What is a trigger warning?

boston bean

(36,222 posts)
45. A trigger warning
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:50 PM
Feb 2014

is to alert one who may have been victimized that it may trigger bad memories and put them in a bad place. It's a courtesy.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
47. Including the message "trigger warning" is a courtesy
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:52 PM
Feb 2014

to warn people that the content might include something that could cause a strong emotional response for some people (usually people who may have been victims of a similar experience).

Many times I see "trigger warning" posted with a bit of additional explanation to identify the type of trigger, such as "Trigger warning: sexual assault", or "Trigger warning: racism".

There is a good explanation here: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Trigger_warning

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
13. Ironic, isn't it,
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 11:23 AM
Feb 2014

Feminists are striving to enlighten more sexists and misogynists in just the last few years. I feel like we're back in the 70s!

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
14. Excellent!
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 11:24 AM
Feb 2014

Every male who thinks it's perfectly OK to assault a woman needs to be forced to watch this. Thank you for posting.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
35. Didn't watch but it's not ok for anybody to assault anybody
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:30 PM
Feb 2014

That's pretty well established. I would say it's a cultural norm for all cultures.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
59. Watched it in its entirety
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 01:14 PM
Feb 2014

-Misogyny is wrong.
-Sexual assault is wrong.
-Unwanted sexual entreaties is wrong.

Don't know what else I can say.

Mira

(22,380 posts)
22. This well done film was excruciating to watch -
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 11:57 AM
Feb 2014

The message is very clear and painful. The toughest was the police interaction and the wife.
Sadly so familiar.

boston bean

(36,222 posts)
23. Yeah it was.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:03 PM
Feb 2014

And then to see the wife walking down a dark road, with all those male voices, cat calling, threatening... Tying it all in at the end.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
27. At first I thought this was just a joke . . .
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:15 PM
Feb 2014

It is quite a bit more than that. Thank you for post one of the most deeply moving, even painful short videos I've ever seen.

"Self-knowledge is never good news."

Squinch

(50,956 posts)
34. That was great.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 12:29 PM
Feb 2014

The look on the face of the, "I should be talking to your wife" woman hooked me.

Thank you for that.

marble falls

(57,114 posts)
58. I have a clothing ratio for how seriously I take anything on TV and movies in particular.....
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 01:14 PM
Feb 2014

males and females must be each equally wearing or about equal amounts of the clothing/costumes. I'm made a bit angry that it seems that females seem under clothed the whole time that males seem to be over dressed. It sometimes seems like Benny Hill produces US TV from beyond.

cinnabonbon

(860 posts)
67. I understand your concern
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 01:40 PM
Feb 2014

however, I think in this case it was used deliberately, to show which gender had the power in society. They were meant to be like the men who jog without a top on. When they do it, it isn't seen as something obscene or titillating. They're not worried about being raped. Why would they be?

However, the man who was wearing a lot more clothes got cat-called and blamed for his own assault.

marble falls

(57,114 posts)
76. No doubt about it, TV has skewed values and behavior norms. The violence against women ...
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:13 PM
Feb 2014

that seems to be growing even as its being exposed more daily is what made this Navy vet talk his daughter out of applying to the Academy. I really believe a lot of what causes this sense of privilege men feel over women comes from TV.

cinnabonbon

(860 posts)
89. I agree with you. Media has a lot to answer for
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 03:20 PM
Feb 2014

when it comes to our perception of the different genders. I think some people forget that we don't just get our values from our family and community anymore, we also get it from media, and we're only considered consumers then. I think a lot of the problems stem from the fact that what we need to see to grow as people isn't often entertaining, it is painful and uncomfortable... So it doesn't get shown. What is shown is a superficial, vapid and objectified image of the real thing, designed to be entertaining.

SunSeeker

(51,574 posts)
69. I've had that pet peeve since childhood.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 01:55 PM
Feb 2014

The constant undressing of women treats the female body like a bowl of fruit--to be displayed and consumed.

justhanginon

(3,290 posts)
75. Thank you for posting this video.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:08 PM
Feb 2014

It's good, even educational, to see so graphically portrayed, the shoe, so to speak, when worn on the other foot. I've often thought that were I woman I would probably be a raging feminist after some of the stuff I've seen in my many years on this earth. Hopefully, we're never too old to learn and grow.

MH1

(17,600 posts)
85. Powerful video.
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 02:49 PM
Feb 2014

I agree with a commenter upthread who noted that those who really need to watch it, probably won't.

For those who already get it, it's a bit like a sledgehammer on an already sore spot.

But at the same time, I think the reminder is good.

Thanks for posting.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
90. TV Tropes
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 03:24 PM
Feb 2014
Gender Bender
A character has undergone a complete physical sex change, usually through magic or Applied Phlebotinum. Depending on the medium, genre, and storyline, this may be a one-time temporary change, a recurring change (causing the character to jump the gender line often), or even permanent.

First Law of Gender Bending
"Once a girl has been created, circumstances will conspire to keep her a girl."
Not only are male-to-female Gender Benders a lot more common than their female-to-male counterparts, they are also a lot more permanent. One might think that the same Applied Phlebotinum that can change a male into a female should just as easily be able to do the opposite, but that's rarely the case in practice — most characters who try to reverse a male-to-female Gender Bender will learn that Failure Is the Only Option.

Women Are Wiser
In many works of fiction, the female member(s) of a group, be it a married couple, siblings, or True Companions, are often portrayed as inherently better grounded than the male members: more rational, more reasonable, more level-headed and sensible, and often morally superior.

Third Law of Gender Bending
Any gender bent character will either embrace or be subject to all of the stereotypes associated with their new gender.

Note: Contains various movie clips, some might not be safe for work.


It's a video designed to solicit a highly focused emotional response within a specified demographic. Either you "get it" or you "don't". If you do, you're on "our side", if not, you're "one of them". I "got it" within the first minute. I spent the other ten on this reply.

You're welcome.

 

Loaded Liberal Dem

(230 posts)
95. I watched the whole thing
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 06:52 PM
Feb 2014

But I'm not sure what to make of it: The opening moments reiterate the "women can't live without a man" BS, then the vid does a 180 as the man is sexually assaulted by women, and encounters the attitudes of real-life sex assault victims from the cops, and then his wife.

But the video seems to end with the wife, walking alone down a poorly-lit street, with misogynist voices trailing her. Was this supposed to "bring us back" into the real world? If so, I can assure you that I'm already aware of such, thus rendering the reminder unnecessary.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
100. I like the French twist to this theme.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 10:15 AM
Feb 2014

It's good to have the European feminist flavor here. It makes it all the more brutal, IMO...

good job, boston bean! Stay warm and dry up there...

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
105. Did an excellent job of showing many issues women face.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 01:10 PM
Feb 2014

Given the many issues it didn't touch on, I wonder how many more of these could be made.

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