Do any of you have a moment when...

[F4lconF16]

Last edited Wed Feb 19, 2014, 06:39 PM - Edit history (1)

after a long, intelligent, and interesting conversation about something, you switch to politics and everything goes downhill?

I ask this because I had a wonderful discussion with a young woman I met about some aspect of photograpy. We gradually switched topics, and hit upon politics. There, her intelligence and general decency seemed to disappear almost instantly. You could tell that she watched Fox regularly; everything was Benghazi or Obamacare. Her care towards others evaporated, becoming irritated speech about those entitled takers that all poor people are, and things like that. It was truly surprising, because she seemed so much better than that.

I guess my question for you lot, then, is how do you respond? I made an honest effort to discuss and talk with her before she stated that Benghazi discounts any other effects of Obama's foreign policy and that also he was too friendly to the EU communists, upon which I gave up.

What do you do in this situation? And is it wrong for me to feel such an intense dislike for someone I don't know all that well? (I don't feel bad in the slightest; I'm more curious about whether I should.)

[lillypaddle]

1. Welcome to DU

I just avoid those people like the plague. But yes, it is disappointing, and I find I dislike them immensely.

[justiceischeap]

2. I've got a couple of friends I've met through photography

and when I found out they were Republicans, I had to work hard not to immediately dislike them because prior to learning of their politics, I liked them very much. That's when I realized the problem is me and not them.

I'm fortunate that my friends are not the offensive "Benghazi" idiots and that makes things much easier but when I hear one of them spout off how great Bush was I cringe a bit inside and keep my mouth shut... I find every aspect of their friendship excellent except their politics so why dishonor that friendship over political ideology? I just prefer not to engage in that aspect of their intellect.

[F4lconF16]

17. That's exactly what I usually do.

But it has begun to bother me more and more. Actual people are being hurt by their beliefs (even if only indirectly through voting and such). It pains me to lose a good friend, but at the same time, I hate the idea of ignoring the issue. I do a better job when it comes to religion (I've learned the hard way never to discuss that if I want any friends at all), but someone's politics affect so many others that I feel like I'm implicity consenting to their views if I ignore them.

[anniebelle]

3. Sad that it's come to this.

I never talked politics with anyone outside my family until the last few years, but since Clinton, it seems the Republicans have become crude and rude. I don't allow them to take up space in my head or in my house. I ignore them when I can and I certainly don't try to have a conversation with them. They spout their hatred and bitterness to anyone who will listen. That's not me. It's weird, I've developed this uncanny ability to identify one almost from word one, or seeing their shiny little flag lapel pin.

[kag]

4. Our family doctor is a wingnut...

Other than that I like him a lot. He's the only doc in our small town so my whole family goes to him. When we're talking about anything but politics we get along great, but when he begins talking about what he heard on FOX radio I just want to belt him. And he'll throw out these little zingers about how "liberals don't like FOX because they're threatened by it" and then just change the subject so quickly that I can't respond.

Sigh. And he's such a great doctor.

[CJCRANE]

5. I've been in the same situation.

Back in the summer of 2009 I was doing a temporary job and I met someone at work who seemed nice (also doing a temporary job).

I arranged to meet up with her after the job was over. I then friended her on facebook and was taken aback to see lots of Fox News and GOP "likes" (basically every RW pundit and pol was on her page plus a big anti-Obama sign).

Anyway, I spent a few days with her and she came out with all the talking points we've been hearing for the last few years (they haven't changed much since then).

She was a nice person but I found it annoying that she was so fixed in her viewpoints and simply changed the subject if it got too difficult to back up her points.

We lost touch in the end because I couldn't see it working as a close friendship when we were both so passionate about the opposite ends of the political spectrum.

[merrily]

6. I never got the Maitlin - Carville type thing.

[CJCRANE]

8. Same here.

In theory you could try to change the other person.

The thing I found was that I knew a lot more information and facts than my friend (which is not surprising as a DUer vs a Fox fan). But she had these built-in barriers that didn't accept inconvenient information. The Fox viewpoint is that all information is biased and all sources are biased to either liberal or conservative. So if I presented some facts to her my friend would say that they were from a "liberal" website and that she could find the opposite facts from a "conservative" website.

[merrily]

11. Yes, no such thing as reality or objectively verifiable facts now.

It's only the liberal version vs. the conservative version. What actually happens is irrelevant. Only the spin and opinions of one side or the other count anymore.

:rolleyes:

[F4lconF16]

18. It's a scary world

where only opinions about a fact can exist, and not the facts themselves.

[merrily]

19. Agree also a bizarre world. Welcome to DU.

[another_liberal]

7. Benghazi?

Conservative women are poison (I know what I'm talking about). Don't waste your time on her. Life is far too short.

[freedom fighter jh]

9. It's amazing how some of this stuff can make some people turn off their minds.

I have a friend with a PhD in biochemistry, a very rational person. I know her from a job I left about 18 years ago. We live far apart now, but we have stayed in touch.

When we talked about Obamacare, she said she'd be passing on the exchange, staying on her old insurance, because none of the exchange plans where she lives allow admittance to a decent hospital -- only the sub-par hospitals. Fair enough; I felt fortunate that where I live that issue does not come up. Then this devout, pro-life Catholic expressed resentment that under Obamacare she would have had to pay for other people's maternity costs. Didn't she get it? People in different groups have different needs and we all pitch in for each other. As a woman in her 50's, if she had chosen Obamacare she would probably have benefited from that element of insurance, since she would likely need more care even than a woman going through childbirth is likely to need.

How to communicate that? I was rescued by a line I heard somewhere -- can't remember where, but it was probably DU: She is right that not everyone gives birth. But everyone does get born.

She got it. She changed the subject.

[Locrian]

10. emotional development

>> Her care towards others evaporated, becoming irritated speech about those "entitled takers"

That's really the nut of it. Her Obamacare and Benghazi arguments are just supporting 'facts' to her that give her ammunition to criticize and complain. But the real scaffolding is the lack of empathy.

These types always seem to have that self-centered worldview. Like they never developed above teenage mentality of me-me-me (with apologies to teenagers). Which is sort of funny given how they are always the ones touting morality, strength of character etc.

In the end, it's weakness and probably a good dose of fear. They can't see that we're all in this together and that caring and being in the world 'outside oneself' makes you (and everyone else) stronger. The cost of that is that sometimes you make yourself vulnerable. But the benefit is that you see the world more clearly and you're not afraid since it becomes greater than yourself.

They still have that zero sum game of it's 'me' against everyone else. And in the end, it's a lonely cold existence. Only warmed by hate and 'security' of money, power, etc.

[WinkyDink]

12. Clever variation on the "Can any of you help me refute....?" bogus query. THIS NEVER HAPPENED.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. I was thinking the same thing.

I've never heard anyone anywhere use the phrase "entitled takers".

[F4lconF16]

16. My apologies.

That was not meant as a direct quote, but as representative of her general ideas. I'll reword the op.

[noamnety]

13. Just my personal experience here

but I've never had an ongoing friendship with a fox viewer that didn't eventually result in them spewing something incredibly racist.

[Thespian2]

14. Politics

is a dangerous subject if you don't have some knowledge of the political stripe of those with whom you are speaking. If the low-information people you are speaking to are constant watchers of Fox, then you are much better off ignoring them. You will never change the minds of these folks; only you will be hurt by such a "discussion."