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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMagazine covers are more important than abortion rights.
10 Dangerous Anti-Abortion Bills That Are Already Gaining Traction This Year
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/02/18/3299871/terrible-abortion-bills/#
This was posted as a GD OP yesterday and sank like a stone. Meanwhile, we have umpteen gazillion posts about swimsuit models, objectification, white knights, and the like.
The state where I am registered to vote is one of the states where this nasty attack on women's reproductive rights is going on. I've contacted my state representatives. I hope the rest of you will take a break from the ongoing gender controversy du jour to do the same.
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theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)A rec and a 
cali
(114,904 posts)and substantive issues often sink like stones.
I see that more and more.
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)More and more.
It's a very sad thing to me.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)But thanks for telling us lowly women what IS important....what would we ever do without you?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)There isn't much disagreement on the DU about abortion rights, it's a settled issue here and there's nothing substantial to argue about.
Put a small clique here agitating regularly against abortion rights and you'd see some huge flaming threads about it.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)How about what should be done to roll back the assault of the neanderthals?
Personally, I'm a bit flummoxed. How do we change these right-wing state legislatures?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)wonder why...
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)h/t Groucho
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)
Feral Child
(2,086 posts)emphasizes the point of the OP.
Ignored.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)JUST to try and insult me....
that is the utmost example of hypocrisy I have ever seen!
Ignored back!
Response to Fumesucker (Reply #4)
Autumn This message was self-deleted by its author.
zazen
(2,978 posts)You are right of course that while those of us here writing on discussion boards discuss a multitude of issues, we must continue to be mindful of electoral maneuvers as well and active in that sphere. Social change (and regression) occur across many fronts.
The objectification of women's bodies is related to the assumptions that we aren't capable of making difficult life and death decisions about our own pregnancies.
The sexual objectification we've seen mushroom in the past 30 years is one way to keep Western women, who've otherwise seen advances in rights, focusing our limited energies on obsessing over our failure to live up to impossible standards and the judgments/limitations applied to us therefrom.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)I just don't think we need a score of simultaneous threads on the same subject, including the obvious flame-baiting ones. Likewise, just how many threads do we need on "White Knights"? There are many other interesting, serious discussions folks here were trying to have that have been shoved right off the page to the back of beyond.
Anyway, I'm going to try and find some threads I was following and hope folks will save some room for more than two topics on the front page. Peace.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)It seems obvious to me that those that now dominate this site have their own agenda and it has nothing to do with politics.
deutsey
(20,166 posts)
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Because you cannot select multiple threads at once.
GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)Open GD, then open the threads you want to trash in new tabs behind the original window.
Trash each thread and close that window, then reload GD.
All cleaned up.
I'm using a Mac and Safari, though you can do it with Chrome and Firefox.
It takes a little bit of time, but easier than going to each thread, trashing it and then clicking back to GD (or any other forum).
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)tabs. Mostly I don't use the trash although I just went through and cleaned out some GD silliness..
GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)And there was war in GD and sometimes the Lounge: Skinner and his minions fought against the dragons of silliness; and the dragons fought Skinner and his minions.
News at 11.
deutsey
(20,166 posts)
Feral Child
(2,086 posts)They're not here to discuss, they're here to vent.
It's as simple as that.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)We know that boots on the ground/contacting our representatives is the only thing to combat it - the presumption on DU is that everyone agrees that they're terrible (even if we know that Skinner allows anti-choice posts if they're polite.) The underlying view on women that fuels these bills, tho', that's something we see here on DU too, albeit in a less extreme form. Women are objects, women aren't autonomous human beings, women can't decide over their own bodies, women are there for the enjoyment of men, women must be the property of men, women's sexuality must be policed, must be for only certain men's enjoyment, and on and on. Very familiar vibe, I would say. Fighting that is fighting against these proposed bills too - even if it is more trying to change society so that they aren't proposed at all, rather than directly fighting them in legislatures.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)that someone, somewhere is arguing over swimsuits they won't wear, worn by models they don't know, who work in a profession they aren't in, and on the cover of a magazine they don't read and in which they won't feature.
I didn't see that thread and would like to give it a rec. Could you bump it? I can't find it.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I am sure that is what they told Black people during civil rights too...
That lunch counter and bus ride were totally worthless in the "big picture" right?
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)same as the SI swimsuit issue.
What a farce
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)"farce" too!
Just saying...
treestar
(82,383 posts)one could make the case.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Black kids being shot in Florida for being black kids is more important than Ted Nugent calling the President a mongrel,Gays being hunted down in Nigeria and killed is more important than the anti gay crap that Focus on the Family spews and girls being shot in the face for daring to go to school in Afganistan is more important than anti abortion laws in the U.S.
That doesn't mean those "less than important" things can't be discussed or are unimportant. There's a shitload of less than important things discussed here every goddamned day,only some of them get the "that's not as important as" treatment.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)I guess threads about some guy pissing in the sink at Pizza Hut really IS more important than pending anti-abortion legislation. My mistake.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Nor the kittens or Ted Knight.
Same old STFU feminist crap. A game.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)But, yes, I am calling out all the people who care so much about women's rights that they'll scribble hundreds of contentious posts about the evils of swimsuit models or MRA bogeymen, but don't apparently have the time or interest to even post a "Gee, that's horrible" response to a thread about encroachments on women's reproductive freedom.
Maybe in the tiny intervals between each post, you're down at the statehouse talking to legislators or out at the clinic providing safe access, but somehow I doubt it.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)No idea at all. I do more than my share, thank you.
Why would I need to discuss this here- I have no need to come here for a pat on the back, obviously you do.
JI7
(89,249 posts)their place.
RBStevens
(227 posts)Actually it's insulting.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)You don't call out the men who aren't doing anything about women's reproductive freedom? I challenge you to start lambasting men for not doing enough to stop their fellow men from being misogynists, and working to stop these laws. Otherwise, you're just empty words from a useless keyboard.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)I was responding specifically to post #10, which did bring up the subject of a variety of topics.
For me, it's not the subject but the score of simultaneous threads on the subject, some which were intentionally posted as nothing but flamebait. If you think I'm not a feminist, you'd be dead wrong.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)BettyEllen was responding to my post. I guess I'm just the STFU to feminists type? 
Must be because I fight like hell to keep threads about contraception, equality for women and reproductive rights from sinking like stones on GD.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Feminists here walk the walk, but it's assumed they aren't unless they come here to trumpet it.
You won't see the op whining about ANY other topic discussed here. None. But feminism truly riles em up.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)... to keep threads like those on pending abortion legislation, from completely dropping off the radar. It can be very frustrating because threads like that usually sink like stones from DU. I can't speak for Grumpy, but I suspect it's not the subject matter but the sheer volume of duplicate threads overtaking the forum which got to be a little much. I know he and I were posting like hell last night trying to keep the abortion legislation thread from sinking. I had already given up on one I had posted regarding lawsuits against the HHS mandate. We just need a little room for multiple discussions to be sustained. If my frustration got the best of me, I apologize.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Can't extend that to the OP. It's never anyone except feminists who get lectured that they should be doing something else.
Rude assumptions abound.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)a guy pissing in the sink in Pizza Hut?
Seriously?
Thanks for telling us how YOU feel too!
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Please don't try to paint me as an enemy. I can assure you that you can't be farther from the truth.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I think if YOU are such a great ally....then you should be stepping UP like some other men around here are doing and being praised for it by women.....
You joined the other camp....who are complaining....and "mansplaining" HOW WE SHOULD FEEL
Whatever would we do without what YOU think we should be upset about.
Do you do the same for the LGBT or Minority communities too?
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Okay, whatever you say.
Peace.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Feel free to peruse both my profile and my journal, including the archives.
Like I said, peace. I am not your enemy.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)but comparing the women complaining about the T&A in GD is EXACTLY like pissing in a sink at Pizza Hut.
or so YOU say....
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)That was NOT the comparison I was making, I was responding to a very specific post. But you go ahead and make up whatever nasty, woman-hating portrait of me you want. Unbelievable. I'm done.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Don't tell me what I saw....
You joined the "club" that says women should STFU about T&A in GD because YOU don't think its important enough...Yeah we get you feel that way...
BUT would you tell an African American to shut up about something they take issue with?
would you tell someone from the LGBT community to shut up because its not "important enough"?
No you wouldn't ......but for some reason....YOU DID think you must chime in and tell women to just "calm down" what you are discussing is just not as important as say...."pissing in a sink at Pizza Hut"...
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)I explained myself in more than one reply in this thread. If you choose to ignore them all, that's your choice. I'm done.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)stop admiring it and put it on for heavens sakes!
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)RC
(25,592 posts)You can't win here. He twist what you say, assumes things not said.
In other words, you either have to agree 100% or you are blamed as being part of the problem.
Never mind we both know better what the real problem is...
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)your hair-on-fire routine about a magazine cover is simply ridiculous. I'm just as entitled to my feelings - that this is a stupid issue and has nothing to do with feminism at all - as you are thinking it's the end of civilization as we know it. I'm sick of "some" feminists - whether men or women - deciding how I should be thinking about an issue and if I don't come down on "their side" that I'm a traitor to the cause. Your opinion is simply not that important.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Do they also have a skimpy swimsuit issue with scantily clad men in provacative poses on the cover once a year?
Why is that?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)If there were a market for women ogling men, they would do it. Your insistence on making this about feminism is fucking laughable as these women are doing it willingly and are getting paid mountains of money so that covers the pro choice and exploitation aspect of it. That you have a problem with it is YOUR PROBLEM. Stop trying to make this about feminism when it clearly is not.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)You seem to be the only one who feels they can judge who is and who is not a feminist when you clearly have no idea what the word means. I don't see anyone else making that claim which is why I'm only responding to you.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)any poster here. Frankly, I find your hair on fire routine about a magazine cover an embarrassment to feminists.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)why is YOUR hair on fire over a few posts on a bulletin board?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)But I see you starting to get upset again because I disagree with you. Put me on ignore and put yourself out of the misery of having to defend this ridiculous argument.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)we women should just "shut the hell up and get back into the kitchen and make them a sandwich" I guess.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)to take this? How many more people do you need to think you're a ridiculous caricature of a feminist will it take before you take a breath and realize you're gone way over the top in accusing fellow DUers of being traitors to your cause?
treestar
(82,383 posts)eleventy billion
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I was on the staff of the ACLU during the fight over the Hyde Amendment. I served in the national hq of the League of Women Voters of the U.S. on establishing an abortion rights platform for the League's official policy, I was the Development Director for a feminist women's clinic that performed abortions and provided women comprehensive reproductive health care, I worked for Planned Parenthood of CT as its Major Gifts Officer, raising money from high dollar donors all over the state, to support the work of all the PP health centers statewide. I am retired now but just as active as a volunteer supporting pro-choice candidates and to GOTV.
My professional life has been primarily about preserving Roe and raising money for the reproductive health care of women.
Comrade, you REALLY asked the wrong person...
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)To see those nutjobs again. Thank god things have calmed down around here.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)our clinic defense group here in New Haven and they formed a human chain around the clinic with arms locked. The would-be invaders drove up and I could see their signs in the back seats of their cars. When they saw our defenders they just slunk away. It didn't happen again.
Yalies were HUGE supporters, both men and women, of our little clinic. The feminist community also rallied for us. Both provided us with clinic volunteers inside.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Your thousands of womansplainin' posts, not so much.
Now, back to work.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 19, 2014, 09:02 PM - Edit history (1)
Because that sure as hell ain't happening here. But sadly- bragging about making two lousy phone calls is.
YOU should get back to work!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)people, men as well as women. I never had a chance to thank each and every one of them...and anyway, that is not what they wanted. They wanted us to stay OPEN. And so they did what they had to do.
Please, will you stop? You were not there, you did not see what was happening on the ground as it was going on.
At long last, sir, have you no decency?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)them "back to work" - I suppose by that he means kicking threads, LOL.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)we still have to fight...and on a progressive liberal website no less...for the simple dignity of women. And I have 2 daughters and 3 granddaughters...so step right up if you wanna fight...
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)likely intended to eat up space that otherwise might be used to discuss things that actually matter.
Don't feed the trolls.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)nonsense and non-sequiturs, any random thought that comes into their head. The result of course is that any thread on any other topic is pushed off in a few minutes, keeping the "conversation" focused on the distraction du jour.
RBStevens
(227 posts)in liberal space is a distraction? Feminism is politics.
Response to RBStevens (Reply #80)
Egalitarian Thug This message was self-deleted by its author.
RBStevens
(227 posts)maybe I need a tinfoil hat too what with all of the mind-control feminists ordering me type scribbling onto the DU.
My life?
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)I re-read the exchange and I jumped in with an inappropriate reaction to what you actually wrote.
I'm sorry, please accept my apologies. Deleting now.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)"I agree"
"I agree"
etc etc
people don't go on the internet looking to agree with other people
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)and really long threads about his antics.
JI7
(89,249 posts)and everyone being in agreement with it
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)Who swear up and down they really really really support women's issues, are always dead silent in these threads?
Not a peep
Not a peep
AZCat
(8,339 posts)For me, at least, during the Bush years DU was a safe haven from what seemed to be an insane world. Sure, we all agreed that Bush was a bad thing, but just being able to talk to other people about his policies or the Iraq war without being denounced as a traitor was a relief. Maybe we don't have that same sense of a common ground, since there isn't a consistent, overriding threat uniting us?
JI7
(89,249 posts)this is a pattern we see regularly.
JI7
(89,249 posts)there
JI7
(89,249 posts)
RainDog
(28,784 posts)and spot on about what matters.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)K&R
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)But on the other hand, I can see your point RE: looking at the bigger picture. It is getting scary out there, to be sure.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)I'm so fucking sick of this passive aggressive bullshit. Look at that, you contacted your state reps and you were still able to post yet another thread on the gender "controversy du jour". But then, us folks from that group probably can't post and chew gum at the same time, amiright? 
All of those high fivers who are making this place an unwelcome environment for many women, feminists and their allies can just fuck off already. It's exhausting fighting this fight every day out in the "real world" let alone here where you would least expect to have to.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Women have a funny way of deciding for themselves what is important ... but most agree it is respect for women's autonomy
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)"And yes we will attack all website who report about it.
So be prepared DU. "
Facetiously...
-------------
Mechanic: Somebody set up us the (gender) bomb.
Operator: Main screen turn on.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)in regard to having their unemployment benefits denied and there is not a single post on the greatest page about their plight.
DU has become less about politics and activism and more about groups of people unable to resist the urge to fight with each other. I have been around long enough to know that there is a certain percentage of people that are compelled to argue and fight in order to feel relevant and alive.
Thanks for this post!
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)that get a lot of responses.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Topics with controversy will ALWAYS generate more posts because there is more opportunity for back and forth dialog. This is NOT a controversial topic. We are all in agreement. Thus, there is not reason for someone to post 20 times back and forth.
This is not hard to understand. Thus, I fail to see where your faux outrage is coming from?
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)I'm with you in being sick to death of thread after thread about "controversies" like SI, and I think to equate a magazine counter with segregated lunch counters shows a real lack of maturity, not to mention a lack of appreciation for just how serious some of these political issues are.
I enjoy the sport of politics as much as anyone. My favorite political show is probably Hardball, because Chris Matthews is all about the sport, the spin, and the score-keeping, even though he tends to be light on substance (in contrast to, say, Rachel Maddow). It's good fun, and it's a cheap thrill for people like me, who get no closer than Hardball to actual team sports (because I could give a good goddamn about sports).
But that said, the political issues we talk about here are literally life and death for many, many people. I don't hate Republicans because they run mean attack ads, because they're cozier than Democrats with the nation's plutocrats, or because they're religious hypocrites. I hate them because they're murderers. I hate them because their mission, through their economic and social policies, is to increase the amount of suffering in the world in general and in America in specific. They do this by starting wars, creating poverty, withholding medicine, poisoning communities, fomenting bigotry, and rewarding others who do the same. Fighting Republicans--and Democrats who act like Republicans--is not a game.
It IS a game, however, to pretend that men on DU, because they're insufficiently offended by a magazine cover, are the enemy. It's a game about as enlightening, sophisticated, and original as a remarkably-similar game called Smell My Finger. Like probably everyone else on here, I completely support feminist causes. But if we're going to pretend that a magazine cover is as important as abortion rights, I have to call bullshit. Bullshit, and shame on anyone who thinks this game is more important than extending unemployment benefits. Or expanding, not cutting, social security and food stamps. Et cetera.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)We wouldn't want to post about something that is insufficiently important, so where should we apply for your approval?
Tip: Controversial topics get more posts. That doesn't make them more important, or more popular. It makes them controversial.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)We'd never know without you!
(Almost everyone agrees on the abortion threads, and there's not often misogynist crap in those posts. I reserve the right to call out misogynist crap in any thread, regardless of whether there are any threads about abortion in GD at the time.)
Autumn
(45,084 posts)discussion. It's the unending attack trolling that sidetracks us while the never ending assault on women's rights continue. Some posters focus on one thing only.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)what about registering voters, working on crucial campaigns, distributing literature and info?
Please link to your posts in your state forums where your actually "doing something" aside from kicking two threads.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)in favor of abortion rights. ???? Aren't we?
We here at DU should also be in favor of women not being looked at like pieces of meat.
The instigators of most sh*t here at DU are right wingers posting under the guise of lefties, infiltrating DU, pretending for a little while to be libs, then instigating all kinds of sh*t. I can sniff them out, pick them out, and if allowed, I'd kick them out.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)More and more, I'm beginning to think it's less RW infiltrators, but rather four run-of-the-mill predators, feeling emboldened and attempting to rationalize their behavior.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)they actually post of their "exploits" in DU on right wing extremist forums. They'll mention us by name, etc. etc. That's why I tend to think it's right wingers. Granted, there might be a couple of less-than-bright libs that might hang out with the right wingers under the mistaken assumption that these are libs who are just "different," but if I had to place my money somewhere, I'd say they're right wingers infiltrating DU under the guise of being lib and making complete asses of themselves, which is basically what they are.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)and the discussions there. Silly me, it sank like stone and was forgotten, wasn't it?
The horrible thing is that we know that the increased objectification of women goes hand in hand with the increased resistance to women's reproductive freedom. It's like a hydra with many heads, and now we are being lambasted because we cut of one head and not the other - it doesn't matter that we're cutting off heads as fast as we are able to, because we aren't cutting off the specific heads in the specific manner the men want us to. And these men don't give a damn about the body of the hydra - disdain and contempt of women who speak up. They're too busy feeding the heads nearest to them with more disdain of strong women to get it fatter and stronger!
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)I like googling things when I have the time, and some time back I decided to do a little research on DU members who were behaving rather un-lib. Turns out they were hanging out in right wing websites under other names, and how I found them was that they were mentioning the DU names of libs and ridiculing them. In fact, they were even posting chats and posts about them, and generally making fun of how much havoc they were playing on DU.
That was the first time I realized there are right wingnuts on DU, under the guise of being libs. In fact, they take on lib-sounding names, post a few lib-sounding things, and behave slightly lib. Meanwhile, all the while they're right wingers here to create chaos.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Post hoc ergo prompter hoc
I too used to pretend I knew what was or was not more important to other people too... I eventually grew up.
