there are a fair number of DUers asserting that the protest in Ukraine is a right wing

[cali]

set up.

Honestly? I don't know. I do know that there are several unlikely factions protesting in Kiev. I've also read from Russian sources that George Soros is the astroturf mastermind behind the protests.

What do I know? I know that the protests were largely peaceful. I know that the government is using snipers. I know that the government has provoked violence more than the protesters. I know that President Yanukovych is closely associated with that piece of pigshit, Putin.

Here's what I always believe when it comes to governments and protesters and I don't give a flying fuck and a half if the protesters are left wing right wing or whatever: I believe the government has the greater responsibility. It has the greater responsibility to negotiate and to restrain its use of violence.

[Bennyboy]

1. Well there are a few threads that suggest that...

It seems like it went from a one issue thing to a multi faceted issue thing with the people against the Gov't ideology now.

I see a lot of points in the rebels being supported by the Koch Bros etc in order to gain access to minerals in Ukraine.

[Bennyboy]

4. This thread has some good info

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4526436

[Iggo]

2. It helps them preserve their right to not give a shit.

America!

Fuck yeah!

[cali]

3. sorry, I can't make any sense whatthefuckever out of your post

[Iggo]

5. My subject line was a direct reply to your subject line.

The body of my post was a sarcastic cheer for Americans' right to not give a fuck about anyone or anything else going on in the world.

Come on, cali. That wasn't really that difficult.

[redqueen]

6. I agree with you.

As for any astroturfing, no idea. I just don't know.

But you are exactly right that the responsibility for restraint lies with the govt.

[Bennyboy]

7. CNN, twenty questions

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/18/world/europe/ukraine-protests-explainer/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

And, I don't think you should let your (or my) opinion of Putin cloud the issue. remember that is a media that has always painted the Russian President poorly.

[MattSh]

11. Yes, Russia has been the country the west finds fault with...

since at least the time of Napoleon. And it distracts from problems at home.

But in all fairness, they did paint Yeltsin fairly well. But that's because he basically did everything the west wanted him to do. But that's also why Yeltsin was recently selected as the worst Russian leader of the 20th century. By Russians, of course. Not by the west.

[cali]

12. Putin using homophobia as a tool is enough for me.

[Jesus Malverde]

8. Spend some time on live leak watching the videos of the fighting

You will see both sides acting violently.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fec_1392732158 (warning violence and possible death)

In this video I see the police getting the poop kicked out of them and maybe even killed.

To me, the police show incredible restraint in that video. Watch the policeman go down at :27 seconds..its brutal.

[11 Bravo]

9. Your conflation of Putin and pigshit is insulting ...

to pigshit.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

10. Well Putin is nothing if not opportunist

So even if he had little to do with directly stoking protests so there could be a crack down, he's certainly trying to move on this and get Ukraine back into Russian satellite status.