Why is the term "people of color" still used?

[CheapShotArtist]

The way I understand it, every single human is a different shade of brown. There are no people who are literally black, white, etc. Another thing I want to touch on is how it includes both racial groups AND ethnic groups. My favorite example is how Latinos are considered "people of color", even though there are many who look like the average white person, as there are those who are darker-skinned. This is why I don't care for the term "people of color". I just think that it is outdated and somewhat misleading.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

1. have you seen people in Minnesota?

there are definitely people who qualify as virtually having no pigmentation at all.

Hispanics that look white often aren't discriminated against in person. They are when their name on the resume says Jose Dominguez.

[BainsBane]

5. Hey!

I take that personally. I do have some pigmentation. The bitter cold turns me bluish, as you can see in my selfie below.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

6. lol. Minnesotans have been known to spontaneously combust when visiting tropics

[BainsBane]

7. Actually there are a lot of Scandinavians here

who tan quite nicely. We also have the largest Somali population in the US.
As for me, I descend from the pasty peoples of the British isles. I'm pale even for a Minnesotan. Essentially I verge on translucent.

[WatermelonRat]

163. You speak the truth.

I once got sunburned on an overcast day...

[AverageJoe90]

2. I believe it originated back in the '60s or thereabouts.

My knowledge in this particular regard is admittedly a bit rusty, though; maybe it originated with the black power movement?

[RKP5637]

105. Might have also originated from the "Colored People" signs I used to see as a youth when

traveling in various states during segregation. ... being from up north, I recall asking my mother as a little kid what those signs meant when we stopped at gas stations for gas and also motels, etc.

[redqueen]

119. No, it most certainly does not.

Frenchie Cat answered the question succinctly in post 8.

[RKP5637]

121. Thanks! Yep, Frenchie Cat certainly did! n/t

[Gman]

3. You should see my wife

She's so white she's clear. (With apologies to Bill Murray and Larry Bird for stealing their joke). She's that white.

[El_Johns]

4. When did it begin?

''I've seen 'people of color' used in English as early as a 1793 pamphlet about a yellow-fever epidemic,'' reports Prof. Wilson Moses of the Afro-American studies program at Boston University, but the citation is not at hand. ''It was probably used earlier than that, however. It later became an attempt by the free black community to dissociate itself from the Africans, and was replaced during the 1920's, when 'Negro' became the militant word to use. You will probably find 'people of color' rooted in French.''

Gail Anderson, at New York's Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture, agrees: French-speaking colonies were the first to use 'gens de couleur liberes', which translates as ''free people of color.''

She cites an 1818 pamphlet in English entitled ''Report of the Committee, to Whom was Referred the Memorial of the President and Board of Managers of the American Society for Colonizing the Free People of Color of the United States.'' (Who-Whomniks who object to this use of their favorite word can write to the Committee, all of whose members are safely dead.)

Perhaps the association of 'free' with the phrase 'people of color' gave the phrase its positive connotation; speculation aside, today 'people of color' is well received by most blacks while 'colored people' is not.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/20/magazine/on-language-people-of-color.html

[libodem]

67. I just recently read that term (last night)

Gens de couleur liberes in the book I just started, Cane River. Odd how you learn a term then start seeing it.

[RKP5637]

108. +1, n/t

[FrenchieCat]

8. Means those folks who have a skin hue that ....

doesn't qualify them as being considered White/Caucasian....

It is a way of putting various ethnic groups who have been historically discriminated against
under one umbrella.

[stevenleser]

44. FrenchieCat!

[JustAnotherGen]

49. Oooh!

One of my favorites!

[LiberalAndProud]

86. !

Good to see you!

[Journeyman]

9. The comic strip "Bloom County" did an hilarious take on this topic . . .

can't post the comic itself, but here's the link:

http://www.thecomicstrips.com/store/add.php?iid=85999

[enough]

13. !!! (nt)

[TeeYiYi]

28. Interesting...

TYY

[Throd]

10. I always thought it was an odd term, that it establishes "white" as the norm, and moves from there.

I'm a white guy, but a pretty dark one (black hair, brown eyes, olive skin). Compared to a very blonde, blue eyed guy, would I be a "person of color"? In Ghana or Indonesia, I would be the person of color. Seems like an antiquated term.

[M0rpheus]

11. Sigh...

[kwassa]

12. LOL! them white folks telling black folks what words to use.

[M0rpheus]

15. Ugh... This sh... nevermind.

Let's just say that I really want this to be sarcasm.

[kwassa]

16. I think will just have to go with clueless ...

my, the learning curve is steep around here.

[Squinch]

18. Yeah, but... no.

[CheapShotArtist]

41. Um...I'm Black.

How smart of you to assume what I am without even seeing me in person.

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. For real

[BainsBane]

38. I was hoping

Maybe someone was maybe posting from Siberia?

[JustAnotherGen]

51. Out gif'd again

Damn you M0rpheus!


Post the Eddie Murphy one now!

[M0rpheus]

59. Ya gotta be up in the wee hours!

I got you covered though.

[JustAnotherGen]

65. Ha!

Thanks for bringing this to GD!

[freshwest]

170. I'm often up in the wee hours myself. Because I gotta wee...

Used to get aggravated about it...

Then considered the alternative...

So now it's happy time!

[M0rpheus]

171. You forgot your wee hours Gif...

I fixed that for you.

[freshwest]

172. Is it a twitter pic? I can't see those. Thanks anyway! nt

[CreekDog]

89. Results of your Jury Service

Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
On Fri Feb 28, 2014, 11:52 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Sigh...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4576751

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

If this poster didn't like my thread, why did they post this here? There is a "trash thread" button.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Feb 28, 2014, 12:00 PM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Because talking among people who only agree with you is really, really, really boring, and really, really, really dumb.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerting on "SIGH" ?? Not enough for me to form an opinion on here, so leave it for not enough to even form an argument of violation of ToS on.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yeesh. This one apparently expects a damned low bar for the necessity of moderation.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter needs to clarify the reasons for the alert such as a note saying it was "insensitive". I initially considered this post as humorous or whimsical prior to reading the other posts within the thread.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: my response to the alerter:

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[gollygee]

95. LOL

Love juror #6

[CreekDog]

143. juror #6 is a real piece of work

[M0rpheus]

148. :)

[Number23]

157. GIFMan strikes again!!

[M0rpheus]

98. My first alert... And it's on this?

[ScreamingMeemie]

106. .

[JustAnotherGen]

120. A Toast for your accomplishment!

?itok=Z3a3LP1y

[M0rpheus]

130. Backatcha!

[JustAnotherGen]

136. oooh

Big D animated!

[LiberalAndProud]

131. omg you crack me up.

Awesome,awesome gifs.

[Number23]

158. I'm sorry. I just love you so much!!

I really hope there are no more gifs for today. My sides TRULY cannot take it!!

[M0rpheus]

160. No more GIFs. I promise.

You're safe for the day.

[pintobean]

14. I blame The Wizard Of Oz

[Number23]

159. I don't even know what this post means

And it's still the PERFECT response to this OP.

This thread is really magnificent. I haven't laughed so hard here in a long, long LONG time

[Lex]

17. I have heard black folks use this term mostly

so I figure if it's ok with them, it's certainly ok with me. Seems pretty inclusive to me.

[Blue_Tires]

19. If you want to get technical, we shouldn't use the word "minority", either

There are a hell of a lot more people with pigmentation than without...

[pnwmom]

20. Should we pretend that the differences don't affect people's lives?

And if we're not going to, what term should we use?

Racism is alive and well in America, no matter what terms we use to distinguish between groups.

[hunter]

21. Two grandparents used the term "colored"

One even boycotted my Catholic "Mexican" wedding.

A white California thing.

Guys like me didn't marry, in my grandpa's words, "Mexican girls."

Like he should talk... his male ancestors married Catholic Irish "girls" and had to run away to America for that.

Pretend WASPS.

How sad is that?

[leftyohiolib]

22. term applies to everyone since we are all colored

[M0rpheus]

29. No. Just no.

"People of Color" intentionally does not include everyone.

You can't just appropriate the term because it suits you.
If there were no distinction, then it would just be "people".

[onpatrol98]

33. Wow!

M0rpheus, although I admire your attempt to educate...sometimes the work is just too much.

[M0rpheus]

34. Nah... Not educating. Just stopping something before it gets started.

'Cause there's quite enough *ish in GD today.

The OP is a drive by anyway. He won't be back.

[leftyohiolib]

45. so it's ok now to discriminate against me because im white ? just people is what it should be.

i am a person of color to call me otherwise is racism

[ScreamingMeemie]

46. Are you serious?

That's a RW argument. Why in the hell would you bring that here? No, you are not a person of color. You don't get to redefine what words are used for to make yourself feel more comfortable. Cut it out.

[leftyohiolib]

47. i never liked the term person of color , like im invisible i dont care if it's a rw talking point

my dislike of the term has nothing to do with the rightwing.the term is not a good term. i am a person of color. iam not colorless. im sorry if that upsets u

[ScreamingMeemie]

48. No you are not. End of discussion. You should really be apologizing

right now.

[leftyohiolib]

50. like i said im sorry it upsets you.end of discussion is correct

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. Upset? No. Flabbergasted as hell to see this come from the keyboard of

a lefty? Heck yeah.

[leftyohiolib]

75. am i allowed to have a different opinion than yours even if it upsets u?

[ScreamingMeemie]

78. Am I not able to comment on your opinion?

See how that works?

[leftyohiolib]

80. yes u r but i'd say youve done more than just comment but that doesnt answer my question

[ScreamingMeemie]

81. You haven't answered mine. Have your posts been deleted?

[leftyohiolib]

85. i just updated the post to answer ur question now answer mine. quit bulling me

[ScreamingMeemie]

87. See:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4580321

Answered.

Anyone can post an opinion, just don't expect to not have to defend it. That's how most discussion boards work.

That's no bull...or bulling, or whatever.

[leftyohiolib]

88. i wont defend this anymore u dont like my opinion so your going to try to bully me in to accepting

your opinion. youre part of the tolerance party try acting like it. im done talking to you about this you want to keep going feel free.
part of a discussion board is that people willl say things you dont like if you cant handle that stay off it or better yet just put me on ignore and move on with your life.

[ScreamingMeemie]

92. Dear Sir and/or Ma'am

Part of a discussion board (particularly a Democratic message board) is commenting on comments pulled directly from Rush, Glenn, etal. to defend one's myopic vision on racial inequality.

I don't do ignores, and it's apparent that I can handle what you've posted here because I've responded.

Also, punctuation matters.

Have a nice day.

[M0rpheus]

56. So let me get this straight...

As a group, we've been called everything under the sun but a child of God specifically because of our color.
We've suffered real consequences as a result of our color.

But when we acknowledge our solidarity with each other with the descriptor "People of Color", it's us that are the racists, because that term doesn't include you?


And... You're serious?


I'm just askin'.

[leftyohiolib]

73. am i allowed to to have different opinion on this?

[LanternWaste]

93. Absolutely. Regardless of how sub-literate, inaccurate, or petulant it may be.

Absolutely. Regardless of how sub-literate, inaccurate, or petulant it may be.

However, we also must recognize that individuals illustrating such sub-literacy, such inaccuracy, or such petulance are not in fact, denying you in any way your allowance to have an opinion, regardless of the melodramatic martyrdom that distinction may deny you...

[M0rpheus]

104. You are allowed your opinion just as I'm allowed to disagree. And I do... Vehemently.

What we call ourselves as a group or individually has nothing to do with you.
Literally, nothing.

The fact that you're upset that you're not included... That's your issue.

All I can do is shake my head and walk away.

[JustAnotherGen]

145. Ha!

Gifs are gifts of joy to DU!

[redqueen]

122. Love.

Love love love love love.

That's it, just love.

[gollygee]

57. Are you serious?

Does it not embarrass you to write something like that out?

[leftyohiolib]

74. am i Allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours?

[gollygee]

76. um

If your opinion is that you are discriminated against for being white, then you are "allowed" to have it but I'm going to point out that you are completely wrong and that you should be embarrassed to say that where people who actually face discrimination due to race can read it.

[leftyohiolib]

82. im not making light of any discrimination i just dont like the like the phrase

[LiberalAndProud]

91. Just so you know.

White is the absence of color, in the strictest sense of the definition. If you are of the Caucasian persuasion, you are not a person of color. Keep your opinion, if you will. But it would be wrong.

[kwassa]

127. No one can prevent you from having an opinion. It is a foolish opinion, however.

You might examine your own reasons for disliking the expression so much.

[rustbeltvoice]

23. current linguistic fashion

[redqueen]

124. If by "current" you mean "since the 70's". nt

[Bombero1956]

24. maybe because

Melanin enhanced person is too difficult?

[RC]

111. Probably, because Melanin is too hard to spell for the

bozo's that it unnecessarily matters to, or matters way out of proportion to the actual importance.
We are all people, all individuals.

I used to be a people of color at one time, then I got a inside desk job and it faded. My hair is even grey now, instead of the dark brown it used to be.
My land lady (hope that is not a sexists term here) at the time, thought I was an Indian (She was 73 back in the early 80's, so I apologize for her use of the out dated, non-PC term on her behalf).

[redqueen]

125. The consistency...

it just says so much.

[RC]

129. Why? Because I am too obtuse to see the world as you do?

I like it that way and so do the women in my life. None of them, including my daughters, would be a good fit for the HoF.
Consistency does have it advantages.

[ScreamingMeemie]

133. I would never, ever speak for my own daughter.

Wow.

[RC]

135. I would. I raised them, I know them. I know what kind of women they are.

I am proud of both of them and support them in what they want and what they are doing.
You sound like you may not know yours all that well. In that case.I feel sorry for you.

[ScreamingMeemie]

138. You can ask her if I know her well. I sure as heck wouldn't speak for her.

That's sad. I am super proud of my daughter. Proud enough that I actually let her speak for herself. Just WOW.

[RC]

139. Ahhh, the pile on begins.

Any slight on one is a slight on all?

My kids are not on DU. They are too busy living their own lives. But I do know both of them plenty well enough to know what they are like and lock-step to someone else's drummer is not on their agenda. I raised them to be independent and to think for themselves.
Sorry if that offend you.

[ScreamingMeemie]

140. Pile on? I don't understand, or you've been taking inaccurate notes.

I spend most of my time here, in GD... The rest in the Sports forum. Care to explain what you mean?

I'm just stunned that a person would dare to speak for their grown children. People find many things that appeal to them on their own, without their parent's input. What one would see in a forum is not what someone else may see. It gets even more sad as this thread goes on.

You can, for your notes, run through my posts. If you are talking about History of Feminism, I think I've posted there a total of 20 times. A blanket assumption is always bad. I called you out strictly on the ick of your post.

[RC]

141. They why the big deal about me knowing my daughters well enough to know what they would think on

whatever subject?
There was no Ick there, none, except in your head. You don't know me and you know even less about my kids. I raised them, so I think I know them better than you about how they think. So what is the big deal?
BTY, their mother packed a suitcase and walked off down the street, when they were 3 and 5 years old and left me a note telling me the kids were at the baby sitters. I raised them. I was Mr. Mom. So yes, I know them.
Oh the horror, a man knowing something about raising kids and girls no less.

[ScreamingMeemie]

142. The difference is I don't claim to know every thought or idea in my (or your) kids' heads.

Nowhere did I say I knew anything about your children. Whether or not their mother left them has nothing to do with this discussion, which was about race and not feminism. You lumped anyone who dared to question you into a group... and I proved that to be false.

My husband passed away when our kids were 9 and 17. That didn't make me Mrs. Dad, because I can't replace him. Single parents do their jobs, male or female, and all should be lauded for it without silly titles. This has nothing to do with "raising kids" and everything to do with assuming you know everything your children think. And yes, I find that gross. My daughter lives 1100 miles away from me. I would not presume to know everything she thinks.

Why are you changing the conversation?

[RC]

144. I am not try to or changing the conversation.

I never said nor inferred I knew everything my kids think.
One daughter in going for her graduate degree in, as she calls it, "Dirt Engineering" in Ft Collins CO. The other lives 20 some miles away from me, so I get to see her.
Why do I have the feeling that if they were boys, this exchange would not be taking place? And why do you care in the first place?

[ScreamingMeemie]

146. The gender of your children never came into my mind.

You are bringing that up. Just as you made an assumption about me with regard to HOF and "Pile ons." I don't take or keep notes. I come at everyone fresh, and I certainly don't participate in pile ons.

If it somehow matters to this thread, I have both a son and a daughter, and I would never presume to know every thought that would go through either of their heads, nor every action they would take. That's my point. My gender, your gender, our children's gender, and our parenting skills/stories aside.

[RC]

149. What is your problem.

I only alluded to know one opinion of my kids, period. I know my kids. I know how the argumentative attitudes of the people of the HoF. Neither would have a very high opinion of that group. I don't need to ask them, I already know.
There are more that a few people right here on DU that don't have a high opinion of the Hof, either. So what's the problem here? You responded to me, saying I could not possibly know what my own kids would think. If you know your kids, yes you would have a very good idea of what they think on any particular subject.
Enough already of trying to tell people, who you do not know, what they know or not know.

[ScreamingMeemie]

150. Let's see... I told you what I thought about you thinking you know everything your

kids would think/do.

You then, I don't know...for lack of a better word..."accused" me of being a HOFer and a person who piles on, which I proved wasn't quite the case, and I'm sure you did your own checking. No, I love my kids, and I like to think I raised them well. Well enough for me not to have to speak for them. On any subject, because, on a good many, I wouldn't really know exactly what they would say. You then brought up being a single parent (gender doesn't matter in parenting IMO), which had nothing to do with the conversation either. That doesn't sound like a "problem" to me. That sounds like an opinion. But continue to derail a thread on race with whatever hangup you have with a group that neither one of us actively participates in.

[RC]

152. Link? Link to where I said I think I know everything my kids would think/do.

You jumped in and acted like the HOF do. What am I to think? In fact you still are with your post title.

[ScreamingMeemie]

153. I "jumped in and acted" like something. That's a crazy statement.

I posted a comment; you accused me of "piling on" (when there are still only 2 of us here). I've been clear and concise with you. I have no idea of your history here at DU or with any groups. You appear to have an agenda. I don't need to link to something that's stated all over our conversation here.

[BainsBane]

169. Yeah, It increasingly seems

that hostility to the voices of women and people of color go hand in hand. The common impulse is that only "I" and what "I," the white man, thinks counts. If he says race doesn't matter, you are a bully to disagree with him. And any disagreement with him is part of a great HOF conspiracy to make his life miserable, even when the person disagreeing isn't talking about gender and doesn't post in HOF, as the subthread below reveals.

You have to wonder how such people deal with people who disagree with them offline? Do they decide the person was sent by HOF to make their lives miserable?

[FarCenter]

25. Wasn't "colored" the adjective used to designate things to be used by black people?

For example, water fountains for coloreds?

It collectively designated black, mulatto, quadroon, octaroon and all other non-whites, such as Native Americans, half-breeds, etc.

[Eleanors38]

26. IIRC, "colored" in South Africa referred to people of white and Indian mix.

[redqueen]

126. Yeah... see the strip linked in post 9.

26 years later and somehow people are still having issues grasping this.

Sigh.

[NJCher]

27. I don't think it's been in use that long

It's a difference caused by syntax.

It used to be "colored people," which is indeed antiquated. That was a long time ago.

Then about four years ago, maybe five, I started hearing the term "people of color."

There is a difference, I think. "People of color" refers to a much broader spectrum of people, whereas "colored people" used to refer to African-Americans exclusively.

Think of the difference in the syntax of the book title What Then Must We Do?

Now that's a considerably more elegant than So What Must We Do Now?"


Cher

[jberryhill]

30. Spanish speakers continue to be confounded...

...by what is the difference between "colored people" and "people of color" and how to translate these terms to express a distinction between them.

[FarCenter]

31. "People of color" may have been started by academic race theorists a couple of decades ago

There was an attempt to promote the idea that there was a natural solidarity among all non-Europeans. However, various non-European groups don't actually buy into it.

[JDPriestly]

40. It refers to people who were discriminated against all over the nation but especially in the South

for a long, long time.

People forget that the Chinese and other Asians were discriminated against in the US and often still are.

And do we need to even imagine the horrors that Native Americans have experienced. That goes way beyond stop and frisk, not that stop and frisk is anything but an abomination. But African-Americans surely remember that other groups have been stereotyped due to the ignorance of Europeans and the color of their skin. Today, in some parts of the country, African-Americans have it better than people who are perceived as being "Mexicans." (Many of them are not, of course, and some of them were here before the Europeans. Never mind.)

Words are just words. The emotions they convey are in the ear of the hearer as well as in the voice of the speaker. It isn't what words are used. It is what is meant by them. And some people of color like to read into words sentiments and feelings that are not intended at all aby the speaker. What words would you use instead of people of color to refer to the many groups who have been abused because of their skin color or appearance.

If you listen to Martin Luther King's speeches or read the writings of Eleanor Roosevelt on race, you will hear and see the word, "Negro." That was the word that conveyed respect to African-Americans when I was a child. We did not hear or use the words "black," (considered to be insulting in my social milieu or African-American. That was a long, long time ago but within my lifetimes. Words are just words. It's the sentiment and action behind the words that mean something. A police officer may use a word you like while stopping you and frisking you. The word doesn't make the discrimination go away. Nor does the phrase "people of color" convey an intent to insult or discriminate.

[antiquie]

52. A lot longer than five years ago.

Person of color is a term used primarily in the United States to describe any person who is not white. The term is meant to be inclusive among non-white groups, emphasizing common experiences of racism. People of color was introduced as a preferable replacement to both non-white and minority, which are also inclusive, because it frames the subject positively; non-white defines people in terms of what they are not (white), and minority frequently carries a subordinate connotation

Although the term citizens of color was used by Martin Luther King, Jr. in 1963, and other uses date to as early as 1793, people of color did not gain prominence for many years. Influenced by radical theorists like Frantz Fanon, racial justice activists in the U.S. began to use the term people of color in the late 1970s and early 1980s. By the late 1980s and early 1990s, it was in wide circulation. Both anti-racist activists and academics sought to move understandings of race beyond the black-white binary then prevalent.
According to Stephen Saris, in the United States there are two big racial divides. "First, there is the black-white kind, which is basically anti-black". The second racial divide is the one "between whites and everyone else" with whites being "narrowly construed" and everyone else being called "people of color". Because the term people of color includes vastly different people with only the common distinction of not being white, it draws attention to the fundamental role of racialization in the United States. It acts as "a recognition that certain people are racialized" and serves to emphasize "the importance of coalition" by "making connections between the ways different 'people of color' are racialized." As Joseph Truman explains, the term people of color is attractive because it unites disparate racial and ethnic groups into a larger collective in solidarity with one another.

Furthermore, the term persons of color has been embraced and used to replace the term minority because the term minority could, but not necessarily according to proper context, imply inferiority and disfranchisement. In addition, people of color constitute the majority population in certain U.S. cities, in most countries, and in the world as a whole. However, some people who do not identify as white, as well as people who may be of mixed race, feel alienated by the term, feeling that it places too much emphasis on the color of a person's skin, and that skin color is not what determines race or even ethnicity or heritage.

[Gravitycollapse]

32. It is a term in popular vernacular used to describe those who are not caucasian.

In other words, anyone who isn't white. And being white is as relevant now as it was 60 years ago.

[Smarmie Doofus]

35. It's a good question.

It ( 'POC') is an linguistic atrocity and anachronism that obscures and confuses more than it clarifies.

Are dark complected, curly haired Sicilian Italians "people of color"? "Of *course* not, silly. They're *Europeans*." ( As if that matters; Carribean- Brit's w. ancestry from Barbados are by definition "Europeans." Yet they are inarguably "people of color".

"Ah... but the Sicilians nerved suffered *discrimination.* "

Oh.... really? You sure about that? Maybe you should have known my Irish-American grandmother ( b. Circa 1875, died 1965.)

Let's let "people of color" go the way of "colored people." A well earned, ( Good intentions should count for something.) peaceful death from disuse and a dignified, full-honors burial at sea.

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. Oh fer fucks sake

[JDPriestly]

39. Would you prefer the term, non-Europeans, or maybe non-white?

It's a way of talking about people who don't enjoy what DUers seem to be calling white privilege. That's what it means. It includes Native Americans, Asians, North Africans, people from the Pacific Islands, etc.

[RC]

118. Only a Group of DU'ers are using "white privilege", not DU as a whole.

[The Straight Story]

53. We could just call people "not privileged straight white males"

[Wolf Frankula]

55. Why Not Drop the 'of color"

and just call them people? Also we could drop the 'white' from 'white people' and just call them people.

Wolf

[gollygee]

58. Colorblind ideology is a kind of racism

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/colorblind/201112/colorblind-ideology-is-form-racism

[Wolf Frankula]

166. Everything is racism to the perennially offended.

People are people. To the Martians, we are all Earth apes.

Wolf

[NM_Birder]

60. well........

African American is the acknowledged acceptable term for black people right ?

What do you call the white people from Africa ? ...........
Are all black people from Africa ? .........

Why is it OK to call someone from Spain-Spanish, but calling people from Mexico-Mexican is insulting and are to referred to as "latino"


In the rush to show how in-offensive they are, people have become bumbling idiots regarding "race designation", the sooner it is no longer calculated what race you belong to, the sooner racism will disappear.

[gollygee]

61. It's based on how language has been used

if language has been used to be hurtful, then kind and compassionate people stop using the language that has become hurtful and start using the language the group that is being discriminated against prefers.

And see the above article about "color blind" ideology and how it's a form of racism. Or google "color blind racism."

[NM_Birder]

62. well ........

Why is it still called "the black Caucus"
"the negro college fund"
"National Association for the Advancement of Colored People"


Just a question, why have none of these entities changed with the times ? Why are they not seen as insulting ? The answer I've been given in the past is "because African American's don't want it changed"..... see the irony ?

[gollygee]

63. The names were created when those words were used

and the groups decided to keep the names instead of going through the process of changing them, and losing recognition value when they did change them.

And it's up to those groups, not you. It is not ironic. It just isn't up to you, or about you, or apparently understood by you.

[NM_Birder]

64. What group decided that "black" is wrong, African American is correct.

and again, .......can you answer what are white people from Africa called ? And are all black people from Africa ?

[gollygee]

68. What difference does it make to you?

I am white so it isn't my call. African Americans I know personally seem fine with both black and AA. But I try to be sensitive to what they like to be called. If African Americans I know IRL and here generally seemed to indicate that "black" felt bad to them, I'd stop using it.

The people who are referred to as "black" or "African American" are the people who get to decide.

How is what white people from Africa are called relevant to this?

[NM_Birder]

103. How is in NOT relevant ?

African American is the accepted term for black people, it's true and you know it.

You just never considered the fact that not all African's are black, now that you know not all African's are black,...you don't care what the white ones are called...what difference does it make, after all they are just more white people.

A black man/woman born in the US, is no more African than I am, yet "African American" is used....why ?

[gollygee]

113. I'm not sure what your issue is

I am and was aware of the history of colonization in Africa and the fact that there are people of European descent in Africa. However, I don't see how that is relevant to what African Americans are called.

And African Americans are called that because they are at least partly of African descent and that is the part of their history and appearance that causes them to face discrimination.

You can call yourself European American if you want?

[Lex]

70. So? I'm called Caucasian even tho' I'm not from the Caucasus region.

That's the way language works. It is often fluid that way.

Your posts on this topic seem intentionally obtuse and race-baiting.

[ScreamingMeemie]

71. When did you decide race baiting was the proper way to conduct a discussion in GD?

[Lex]

66. You don't get to decide what's offensive to others.

If Robert says, "I prefer to be called Bob." Then call him Bob. Don't get offended that he doesn't mind if his grandmother calls him Robert.

It's his call, not yours.

[ScreamingMeemie]

69. That is an excellent way to put it in easy-to-understand terms for the terminally obtuse.

[NM_Birder]

101. If Bob is black, from Illinois, why does society call him an Afican American.

You also missed the point.

[ScreamingMeemie]

102. Who's the common denominator here in the comprehension Olympics?

[NM_Birder]

107. "comprehension olympics"....very clever, now

None of you can give me a straight answer, can you ?

It's Ok, ......not many can, and certainly not in view of others right ? It takes a very real look into your own views of other people, and the guilt you carry as a member of society. In personal relationships it's easy to get over this baloney because people are people regardless of color. In groups, you must conform to the pre-approved message and delivery method.



take care.

[ScreamingMeemie]

109. You were already given a straight answer

And, it was broken down into an easy to understand way. In other words, it's not about you.

[NM_Birder]

110. "broken down in an easy to understand way"

That phrase, plopped in a discussion about race, tells me you don't want to discuss the reality of what I'm saying.
like I said, it's not an easy topic, especially when what your peers think is the single most important factor.

take care.

[ScreamingMeemie]

112. Once more, with feeling...

It's not about you, and you don't get to decide. That simple. Really simple. So simple, in fact, that I find your posts to be deliberately obtuse. See references to that up above.

You take care too.

[NM_Birder]

100. If bob is black, and born in Illinois,

Why is he called an "African American" by society instead of black.

You missed the point.

[Lex]

114. Why am I called "Caucasian" if I'm not from the Caucasus region?

YOU missed the point and you don't even know it.

[NM_Birder]

161. the whole point was, why aren't you just called a "person"

why, and to what end,.... does it even matter what "race" of person you are called ?
On a liberal website, NOBODY even thought of that did they ? I could draw you a picture, but I doubt it would help.


take care.

[Lex]

164. Oh yes, YOU are the first person to ever think of that!

A person! Just a person! Wow. You are astounding.

[NM_Birder]

168. LOL.........

Did you flail your arms about after you typed that ? lol
I've got an image in my mind, thanks !

Unless you can put words together in a manner never before assembled, ( or unless you have another theatrical performance) just hang on to that thought. I'm sure someone has already thought of whatever you are about to say...lol

take care.

[chrisa]

77. African American isn't a synonym for black.

You wouldn't call a black citizen of France who has never been to the US "African American." That would be ridiculous.

[NM_Birder]

97. You described my question.

Now what do you think ?

What would you call a black person from France ?
Is he simply "black" if he/she is from France? And if so, why is it different here in America ?

Not every black person here in the states is from Africa.
Also, why aren't white people from Africa called "African Americans", the whole thing is ridiculous.

[libodem]

72. In the 50 's it was polite

But so was Negro. When I read the Covenant which was a long book about Africa, I had to get used to seeing colored used repeatedly. The Apartide was so strict that any mix of blood put you on the outskirts of town in a shanty. It was a horrifying segregation even if you looked white, you were punished by subhuman conditions.

What shall we do about the, NAACP?

[treestar]

79. A good point

it harkens back to while people using that term to describe the non-white.

[AZ Progressive]

83. These are various "people of color" at least according to the definitions of some Americans

Dr. Oz, Turkish
[img][/img]

Juan Pablo, Argentinian
[img][/img]

Cristina Saralegui, Cuban
[img][/img]

Ana Kasparian, Armenian born in America
[img][/img]

Goli Ameri, Iranian
[img][/img]

Anousheh Ansari, Iranian
[img][/img]

[Cleita]

84. That's to call them, OTHER. Plain and simple. It's not rocket science. n/t

[Jamaal510]

90. I think the OP has a point.

Saying this as someone who is Black, I never did care for the "people of color" category myself, just because of how inconsistent it is. And cheapshotartist is right--my anthropology teacher did say that everyone is merely a different shade of brown (which is a color). Even the term "minorities" is more fitting than "people of color".

[M0rpheus]

147. No one was paying attention to anthropology when the original card was dealt.

The whole "White" vs. "Black", "Brown", "Red" and "Yellow" situation here in the U.S. is not one that we've created but, it's the one we have to live with until we come to some mutual understanding.

While "POC" as a term may be problematic due to U.S. definitions of what's white and what's not; it's still an attempt to bring disparate populations together without the extra stigma. I acknowledge the term as one we've chosen to accept, in lieu of the often maligned "minority", for the sake of a generally accurate descriptor when speaking of multiple "non-white" ethnicities.

[Jamaal510]

151. That's true.

"The whole "White" vs. "Black", "Brown", "Red" and "Yellow" situation here in the U.S. is not one that we've created but, it's the one we have to live with until we come to some mutual understanding."

I had made the mistake of assuming that people back then were taking anthropology into account, so that was the angle that I looked at it through and I got confused about it like the OP and others apparently did, too. I wish they'd teach this type of stuff in our history classes.

[M0rpheus]

156. It's all a work in progress. There is much to learn, yet.

I admit to more than a little frustration with the OP, based on the days activities in GD, the timing and, placement of the post. His name didn't help me with that impression either. All of that together led me to the impression that the whole OP was disingenuous. My first snarktastic post, was the result. In hindsight, I could have done better, your post made made me realize that.

That said, we would truly benefit from a true telling of history from all sides. The real unvarnished truth...

[AZ Progressive]

94. Also, pictures of people from Spain

[img][/img]

[img][/img][/img]

[img][/img]

[img][/img]

[CreekDog]

96. welcome back

[Lex]

115. I'm guessing this one has had troubles here before?

Or is a zombie? Certainly "CheapShotArtist" as a screen name should give MIRT some pause?

[CreekDog]

116. i'm not sure

just some Rip Van Winkling lately.

[TheKentuckian]

99. Because "non - white" implies white as default and language can be clumsy.

Racism is institutional in this country so the definitions are fairly baked in so it is impossible to tip toe around it.

Nobody is actually "white" either but we pretty much know who is no matter the tone of their skin.

I figure "person of color" retires either when it is updated to something else about as imprecise or when "white" has no applicable meaning.

[CreekDog]

117. why are you calling people "black"?

don't you know the color black is simply the absence of color?

[Puzzledtraveller]

123. because we can't say naggers?

[redqueen]

128. OMFG is it REALLY that hard to tell the difference between the words "of color" and "colored"?!

Oh my fucking holy goddess this fucking thread WTF!



That Doonesbury comic is from 1988 and we are having THE EXACT SAME FUCKING ARGUMENT NOW! SERIOUSLY! WTF!



Oh! Oh! Oh! And have this many people just completely forgotten how to use Google? This is not arcane knowledge!

[FarCenter]

132. One is a prepositional phrase modifying a noun and the other is an adjective modifying a noun?

[redqueen]

134. 1988

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4577629

[FarCenter]

137. I know, but overloading syntax with semantic meaning is bad language design

[johnp3907]

155. Thank you.

It was almost worth slogging through this whole idiotic thread just to get to your comment. Almost.

[Nye Bevan]

154. When I was a kid "colored" was polite.

Now "colored person" is offensive (except in the context of the NAACP) but "person of color" is enlightened. I don't really care and will use whatever term people prefer but it's interesting how certain phrases pass in and out of being politically correct. Similar to how "Negro" (except in the context of the UNCF) has fallen out of favor.

[CTyankee]

162. So did I but this is now, not 1950.

I would like to think that we have evolved somewhat from that (mostly bigoted, in my experience) era. It was a different world and thank god it got better, not perfect, but better.

[Travelman]

165. Of all the shit in the world to worry about

you are concerned about THIS? Seriously?

Cripes! I am not about to devote my entire life to trying to either name every possible ethnicity nor am I going to tiptoe around perfectly valid language just to help keep you from getting bent out of shape and deciding that your feelings are hurt.


Good grief.