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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums18 year old sues parents for kicking her out and not paying her tuition
We love our child and miss her. This is terrible. Its killing me and my wife, Rachel's father, Sean Canning, a town administrator and retired police officer, tells the Daily Record. We have a child we want home. Were not Draconian and now were getting hauled into court. Shes demanding that we pay her bills but she doesnt want to live at home, and shes saying, I dont want to live under your rules. The rules, he notes, include reconsidering her relationship with a boyfriend who may be a bad influence, being respectful, and abiding by her curfew. He and his wife, Elizabeth, who live in suburban Lincoln Park, about 25 miles outside of New York City, have kept their daughters car because they paid for it, says Canning, and he admits that they did stop paying Rachel's tuition at the private Morris Catholic High School. A hearing is scheduled to take place on Tuesday in the Morris County Superior Court.
For months, Rachel an honor student, cheerleader, and lacrosse player has been living with the family of her best friend and classmate, Jaime Inglesino, whose father, attorney John Inglesino, is bankrolling Rachels lawsuit. Hes also requesting in the lawsuit that the Cannings reimburse him for the legal fees, so far totaling $12,597, according to the paper.
Rachels attorney, Tanya Helfand, is not taking calls as she prepares for Tuesday's hearing, her office tells Yahoo Shine. Rachel did not return a call from Yahoo Shine, and the Morris County court was closed on Monday due to inclement weather. But the Daily Record reports that, in the suit, Rachel alleges that her parents decided to cut her off from all support both financially and emotionally as of her 18th birthday, which was November 1. Her suit also demands the following of the Cannings: that they take care of an outstanding $5,306 Morris Catholic tuition bill; pay their daughters current living and transportation expenses; and free up her existing college fund, as shes already been accepted to several universities.
http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/nj-teen-sues-parents-for-cash-and-college-tuition-201404488.html
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I had to follow the rules until I moved out, now I have even more rules to follow.
Being respectful wasn't even an issue with me. Following curfew was normal practice. And my boyfriend was stupid even I knew that, I constantly reconsidered my relationship.
Mariana
(14,858 posts)Their statements shouldn't be taken as gospel.
I guess she better get a job, though.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)If they owed HER money, that'd be a different story.
Mariana
(14,858 posts)Absolutely. I was just saying it's possible the parents aren't being absolutely truthful about why the kid left the house. Could be she had good reason.
As bravenak said, she needs to get a job.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)But the second she left the home at 18, refusing to live according to the parental rules, well, she emancipated herself.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)There's a few things going on here.
Two things should jump out here:
"Retired cop"
"College fund"
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)unless her parents fill out the financial aid papers.
Even if the student is financially independent and files her own tax return.
Hopefully this lawsuit, whichever way it goes, will allow her to qualify for a "dependency override," which is sometimes given in connection with the FAFSA requirement.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)(except a hideous community college where the teaching level was BELOW high school level)
because my mother said her finances were no one's business and refused to fill out the forms.
My teacher's were livid; they said I could have gone to ANY college I chose. But there was
no budging my mother.
But if this young girl has some scholarships, wouldn't those forms have been filled out? I don't know
how scholarships work.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)not demanded, and absolutely not when acting out.
I think the same of lawsuits against estates. For example, if someone is not present emotionally, or physically to give care to elderly parents, he/she should have the decency not to demand an inheritance in court or anywhere.
PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)I filled out my own FAFSA for college back in the 90s. My mother wasn't on it. I was in my 30s perhaps that is why. I ended up just going with grant monies in the end.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)When you applied they probably asked (since you were above the age of expected parent help) if you wanted to include your parents income and you selected no. When I first fileld out a FAFSA in 1999 it was on it. I've been filling it out again since 2008 and it's an option on there but since I'm in my 20s I select no.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)1. She's 18. Who she picks as her boyfriend is not something the parents can control. No matter how awful he may be.
2. She's 18. Which means her parents are legally able to kick her out and not have to financially support her.
She may potentially have a case as far as her college tuition savings account is concerned. Maybe even a case with the tuition with the private high school. But the parents are not obligated to pay for her living expenses and transportation costs anymore.
As for the car, whoever the title is made out to and whoever pays the insurance and registration is who the court will likely declare the owner.
Ultimately the best advice for the daughter....get a job.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Parents are not obligated to pay for college. If it's just a form of savings, and not say a trust in her name, they are not obligated to spend those funds on tuition. What if she didn't even go to college, they could just remodel their kitchen if they wanted.
At best she may have a shot at her current school tuition, but I think that's a long shot.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)If it's a 527 or Coverdell and the account is titled in her name or even jointly, the money ceased to be in any part her parents upon her 18th birthday (unless she drops dead in which case it reverts back or to a named beneficiary) but there are substantial restrictions upon how it may be disbursed and what for.
If it's a regular old college savings account, yeah...they can do whatever they want with the money.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)The money belongs to the owner of the plan. The owner can decide to change the beneficiary at any point or not give it to the beneficiary (in which case the untaxed earnings basically fall under IRA rules). The owner is in charge.
She has no claim on the money in that type of plan.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)joeglow3
(6,228 posts)For another child, another relative, a friends kid, etc. it is an asset of the parent for the benefit of who they designate. My parents set up a 529 for each of the grand kids. If one doesn't go to college, they can roll it to the other grand kids.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)ownership of the parents, and can end the savings plan any time they desire, and can even refuse to hand it over. I know this for a fact.
She does need to get a job.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)and they can't transfer it to anyone else. It all depends on what kind of account they put the money in.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)In fact, in this still-difficult economy, I've seen plenty of college savings accounts cashed out by the owners because the family ran into some financial trouble. We'll see how this pans out.
WolverineDG
(22,298 posts)Yes, she's 18, but she's living in her parents' house & should abide by their rules. Just because you're an adult doesn't give you the right to do as you please in someone else's house. Don't like the rules? Move out.
Same for the college tuition account, unless it's in her name only (which I doubt it is).
Chan790
(20,176 posts)Any of the tax-deferred accounts like a Coverdell, it'll be a mess but she's prevail. They get the tax break for the deposit, she gets the contents for qualified educational expenses after the age of 18 tax-free.
They have no legal access or right to the money anymore. It ceased to be any part theirs, even if jointly-titled, when she turned 18.
The 529 is an asset of the parent. They can elect to use it for her college costs, withdrawal it and pay the penalty or roll it over to another 529 for the benefit of whoever they choose.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)I bet that's what it is, since the parents are saying now that they haven't touched the money.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)The are not uniform gift accounts
http://www.irs.gov/uac/529-Plans:-Questions-and-Answers
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The college fund is, of course, premised on college. They put her in that high school and she is performing well in it.
If they cut the high school tuition, it can mess up her college entry.
Then... Bye bye college fund. Oh, by the way, dad's retired.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)And the schools rely on those contracts when they budget for the following year. They don't let parents renege on those contracts because the parents are mad at their kids.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)Since the school is allowing the daughter to continue going to school, what
standing does SHE have on this matter?
According to the school, the parents signed a contract, and that is how the school
is entitled to be paid.
treestar
(82,383 posts)unless the state has a child support statute that covers it. child support does not stop at 18 if they are still in high school. It is 18 or graduation or age 19, whichever comes first.
A few states had college support statutes, but mosts of them fell because intact families were not liable for college.
If she is not emancipated the law might say they have some duty to support her. My state has a duty to support a poor person statute, if they fall into the categories of close relatives defined. Never seen it enforced, though. Most parents just don't use the 18 and you're out card, so how often will it come up? Not enough to create case law.
TeamPooka
(24,229 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)Pretty fucking ridiculous
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)now they think they're kings and queens, and everyone should bow to them.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They look like spoiled little brats from mean girls. Her parents should have done this a long time ago.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)We'll see what comes of this.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)See, we can find common ground
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)This punk thinks she is entitled to choose a boyfriend.
I blame the corrosive effects of such modern literature as Shakespeare for giving kids these days notions about romance with the wrong people.
TeamPooka
(24,229 posts)"Sean Canning said that a DCP&P representative visited his home for about three hours last fall, found nothing amiss, determined that Rachel was spoiled and discontinued the investigation. He said that he and his wife are beside themselves that discord with their daughter has reached this level."
Because she had said shit at school about how bad her life was, the school reported it to authorities and they sent someone to check the parents and home out.
All they found was a spoiled brat.
That's some serious bullshit by that kid.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)There were witnesses to what was considered abusive behavior on the parents' part -- and these witnesses encouraged the girl to contact authorities.
http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20140302/NJNEWS/303020017/Morris-Catholic-HS-senior-suing-parents-who-won-t-pay-college?gcheck=1&nclick_check=1
Rachel Canning filed a certification with the court that contends her parents jointly decided on Oct. 29, 2013 that as of Nov. 1 her 18th birthday she would be cut off from all support both financially and emotionally. She said in her papers that Morris Catholic advised her not to return home and contacted the state Division of Child Protection and Permanency (known as DCP&P and formerly as DYFS) after Rachel alleged abuse.
My parents have rationalized their actions by blaming me for not following their rules, Rachel said in her court papers. They stopped paying my high school tuition to punish the school and me and have redirected my college fund, indicating their refusal to afford me an education as a punishment.
Morris Catholic President Michael St. Pierre said in a certification to the court that the school did call DCP&P based upon some allegations by Rachel and some difficult meetings between Rachel and Mr. Canning.
The court record also includes a letter from Morris Catholic English instructor and campus minister Kathleen Smith, who wrote that she was a witness to a rough encounter between Rachel and her mother in mid-October 2013 and heard Elizabeth Canning call her daughter a foul name and say she didnt want to speak to her daughter again.
Rachel has excellent grades and will not be removed from the school for this nonpayment; however, her parents do have a contractual obligation to pay. . . . . "
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)Get her out of that house! The poor dear....
My Mother kicked me out of the car about 2 miles from home once because I mouthed off to her. I deserved it. I walked home. I learned my lesson.
Come on. Let parents parent.
We are raising spoiled, selfish brats.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)the retired cop, and the daughter, that they were worried about. And they advised the girl not to go home.
If this school was worried about their tuition money, they'd have probably been pushing this girl to go back to her parents. The fact that they're supporting her in this is a pretty big red flag, I think.
Not every set of parents deserves the children they have. I don't think we have enough information about this family to know who is in the right. I certainly wouldn't jump in on the side of the parents, just because they were the first to put out their story.
get the red out
(13,466 posts)I am inclined to not judge this girl quite yet either. We haven't heard all of her side. Just because parents have been shelling out money for private school and providing a car for her (until her 18th b-day) doesn't mean there isn't some kind of abuse taking place. It's way to easy to see a kid that has "stuff" and think, they should just shut up, nothing could be going wrong in that family, that kid has it easy..... Not necessarily so.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)the worst things people are capable of every day. Besides, she's over 18 so she's no longer their problem.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)what authorities can do to them if they don't report absolutely any possibility of abuse
and counsel the student to find protection. They have to exercise caution. That doesn't
mean they thought there was real relevance to the accusations of abuse. It means
that the school wanted someone to check it out to be safe.... and actually, with some
children, the children need to be told by the authorities that things the children perceive
as abuse, really is not abuse. We just don't know the facts.
On edit: the actions that the school chose to take result in not only clearing themselves
of any issues at all, but insure that a third party outside of the home investigates fully,
so that both child and parents will hopefully obtain whatever assistance is required.
But it doesn't incriminate anyone in my opinion.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)are condemning the girl. We just don't know. But there ARE two sides to the story.
I don't think the school is just protecting themselves. She's over 18 now and they no longer have a special reporting obligation -- and yet they're still supporting her. (Which is why the parents stopped paying the tuition they owe.)
Also, the father is claiming in the DM article that the girl was alleging physical and emotional abuse. I don't know why people are dismissing that claim so easily, without us knowing anything except that CPS is no longer involved. They wouldn't be, since she's over 18 and is no longer at risk from them.
It will be interesting to hear how this works out, if we ever do.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)Once Rachel 'alleged' abuse, the school was required to report that information to protective
services. There might have been abuse, or not.
There were also statements to the effect that Rachel had been seeing a therapist and was
supposed to be taking medications, but was not doing so.
I raised a son with bipolar, and let me tell you, when you are dealing with someone who
can argue non-stop for over 12 hours at the top of their lungs, yep, some names get slung
around, until/unless you learn to accept that when a person's brain is in that mode, arguing
with them is doing nothing but escalating the situation. There is no way anyone can outlast
in energy or effort the biochemical, neurological forces motivating someone with bipolar
who is in a rage. And they always feel in the right and persecuted.
I'm not saying Rachel has bipolar, though. I'm just saying, we don't know the facts.
Just like my description above, most of the DUers commenting on this story are drawing
from THEIR life experiences, NOT from Rachel's, because there isn't a full presentation
of facts. Just a news story written with JUST enough information to get everyone
tantalized enough to comment.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Oh my, Heavens to Betsy. Goodness gracious! My stars and garters, how ever shall this poor waif endure such abuses?
*vigorously fans self*
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)This girl would have hated to live in the town I grew up in. The cops were called when my father was having a "rough encounter" with me and called me "foul names" because I was acting like a punk.
He explained to them why he had initiated the "rough encounter" and after investigating one of the cops pulled me aside and told me that he saw nothing wrong with the "rough encounter" and that I needed to "grow up" before hopping in the cruiser and driving off.
I still thank dad for squaring me away with that "rough encounter".
There's more to the story. She's probably FAAAAAAAAR from being the abused, neglected angel the lawyer and the school are making her out to be.
Mariana
(14,858 posts)I don't think any conclusions should be drawn based solely on his statements.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)thinking they can sign a contract with the school in the spring and then renege on it in the fall.
It doesn't matter what problems they're having with their daughter, or even whether she goes to the school. The parents still have a contractual agreement with the school. Schools have to budget months in advance, and can't suddenly have parents deciding not to pay.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)She's a grown woman now and she can do as she pleases, but it sounds like she may have to pay for it herself. Just as her parents can do as they please with their money. Unless she funded the account, it's not her money. Her Parents may be controlling which sucks for her, but she seems to be quite expensive and they may not like her enough to pay for her lifestyle. If she wants to live the lifestyle she's accustomed to she has to either pay for it herself, or make up with her parents. Life's not fair or easy, she will be a better person for learning that now as opposed to later.
If you want to run your own life as an autonomous adult it costs money. If you want to go to a private school and university it costs lots of money, and nobody owes that to their child. Most can't afford it and she has been very fortunate in her lifestyle up until she reached her majority. Very fortunate.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)which means the legal gift was already made, was final at that time, and can't be taken back now.
If you are a parent you can save money on Federal income taxes by gifting money to your child that you intend to use to pay for college. However, once you do that, you're stuck. You can't take back the gift if you're mad at your child later, because you already had the tax benefit.
So if this money is in that kind of account with her name on it, then her parents will be required to turn the money over to her eventually -- the issue to be decided is whether that will happen now or when she turns 21, or sometime in between.
Since her school apparently told her to report her parents' abusive behavior (that school personnel witnessed), it doesn't sound to me like she has been all that fortunate. Having parents with money isn't everything.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)If they put it in a gift account for her she should have access to it upon reaching her majority. It's unlikely that it was done that way, as she can't access it now.
Usually parents put money into an account that is in their own name to be used for college with tax benefits, if it's not used in the correct manner they would just have to pay the appropriate taxes and they can use it as they see fit.
If she feels that the money was an unconditional gift, she would have the burden of proving that in court, and the documents for that account and her parents tax forms would show that it was gifted over to her and taxed accordingly.
As far as owing for her transportation, and money for living expenses while staying at her friends house as an 18 year old woman, I don't believe she has a case at all. She is seeking more money than some people make in a year just on lawyers fees.
When I was 18 I saved up 1500 bucks working at a market research firm to buy a 1990 ford escort, and I kept it for a couple of years. If she needs a car to get around she may need to consider working for it as many youth do today. It's hard, but worth it to be able to do as you please.
If you and your parents dont get along, you can't expect them to pay your way through life. Sometimes parents are cruel and won't pay for college even if they can afford it. Just because they have the money, doesn't mean they have to spend it on her. They may want to just put it away for retirement so they won't need her to care for them. If this is how they act, they better be putting the money away for the future, because if doesn't look like they will have much help coming from the daughter they dont like.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)So she wouldn't automatically control the money at 18. But they, OTOH, couldn't spend it on anyone except her. A judge could rule however, that under the circumstances, someone else might be a more appropriate custodian.
If it's in a UGM account, there will be no problem proving that in court -- it's a specific kind of account all banks have, with standard paperwork.
Putting money in a UGM account means that it's taxed at the minor's tax rate rather than the parents, so some people do that to save money. But once they put the money in that kind of account, the gift is final.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I was stiffed out of my social security initial settlement when my dad died, because my mom had gone off the rails ( hs shot himself in front of her)and withdrew all of the money out our joint account ( I had been saving since I was 11, all of my permanent fund checks, my work money from weebees, and the 8000 I had gotten from social security). I was legally unable to do anything about it, so I moved out and shared a 1 bedroom with a couple of friends from foster care. It was supposed to be my college money, but I didn't gave enought money to go after that. I had to go to the social security office and show that my mom was not supporting me and gad moved to another town before I was able to start getting the checks in my name. I also had to pay back an overpayment that she had gotten in my name. That's why I think she won't win. Not because I'm unsympathetic, I've just been throughout it before.
I get along with my mom just fine now, and she fully admits that she had lost her mind for a few years. It sound to me like the whole family will be needing extensive therapy in the future.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)So you can understand well the kinds of things that can happen.
renate
(13,776 posts)I am so impressed that you're able to get along with her now--you must be a very forgiving person, and I admire that. She suffered terribly after your dad's death, so going off the rails is understandable, but you were hurt so directly by her choices that I would also find it pretty easy to understand if you'd chosen to cut her out of your life. And to have to deal with such a dramatic reversal of fortune at such a young age... well, you're admirable all the way around.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)My life wasn't too bad, not as hard as if I had been lacking in intelligence. I hit the jackpot in the natural intelligence department so I never had a problem finding good jobs if I wanted them. My sister too. She could never take that from us so she really didn't take anything that was important.
I just pretended I was 18, told them I had just graduated and started working. I never knew what I wanted to study in college anyway, I had always wanted to be a stegosaurus when I grew up , never figured out another plan.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)She's 18, an adult. Parents have no financial obligations once the student reaches 18.
treestar
(82,383 posts)to support the conservative agenda - right wingers have been jumping on it.
Nika
(546 posts)I hope this can be reconciled in a way the family can be reunited, but even if the parents are the heavies here, I don't see where an eighteen year old gets standing to force her parents to pay anything to her or for her.
kcr
(15,317 posts)I think that might be different
TBF
(32,067 posts)likely enrolled her there. Past that she might be out of luck.
I was lucky in that I had pretty great parents. They were also very poor. Sorry Rachel - you may have to get a job like the rest of us.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)They signed an enrollment contract in the spring and they can't renege on it, no matter how mad they are at their daughter.
TBF
(32,067 posts)nt
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)You might be wrong about the college money, in any case, if the money was gifted into an account with her name on it.
And that is interesting about the college $$. I hope she is able to keep that. She is not used to surviving on her own and is going to have a pretty rude awakening. In the end it may well make her a stronger person, but I'd like to know what the parents are really doing behind the scenes here. My guess is that they are trying to force her to break up with the boyfriend by pulling the purse strings (controlling parents have done this for ages) - nobody kicks anyone out over borrowing a sister's sweater.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)Off the top of my head, there might be a duty to fulfill a promise to pay for the child's schooling - breech of a promise can be actionable if the recipient relied on the promise to her own detriment (i.e. enrolled in a fancy school)
but I'm no lawyer.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)But your point is good about Rachel possibly relying on the promises of her parents to her detriment.
Parents sometimes purchase a car and its registration and insurance for their child on condition that their child do something in exchange. Promises like that can be upheld in court if the child was meeting the conditions at the time the parents took the car away.
It's likely that Rachel's lawyer has decent legal grounds to pursue if those were the circumstances. We'll see.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Could be that she violated the terms of the oral contract with her behavior and she is a spoiled brat and thinks she should get it for nothing.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Which is not dependent on any oral agreement the girl had with her parents.
In the spring, private schools require parents to sign enrollment contracts for the coming fall. Parents can't suddenly change their mind in the fall and not pay. They owe the funds no matter what their student does -- even if the student dies. If that is a problem, tuition insurance can be purchased. This is because schools have to set budgets just like any business, so they have to be able to count on getting the tuition payments parents have promised to pay.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Most currently, the school our kids go to.
That said, that is a different argument from the idea that they owe her one penny beyond the high school tuition (which they owe the school and not her).
DebJ
(7,699 posts)as far as her high school. It's just a collections issue between the school and parents.
She would have no standing.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)to register her for her senior year, and the school relies on those contracts when it hires teachers. Schools that rely on tuition can't afford to let parents renege on their contracts.
qazplm
(3,626 posts)then there likely isn't much of a detriment there.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)in a Uniform Gift to Minors account.
If there is such an account with her name on it, they can't take it back or spend it on anyone except her. If they put the money in her name, they got a tax benefit from doing that, so they can't change their minds now.
msongs
(67,420 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)...and to make a penny doing it
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)They're not asking for damages from these parents -- just the college fund the parents had already put aside from her.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)"Hes also requesting in the lawsuit that the Cannings reimburse him for the legal fees, so far totaling $12,597, according to the paper."
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)Which may explain his spending $12K to fight over a $6K private school bill.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)since you are a reasonable person, will leave you feeling the same as I do -- we don't know what the truth is here. I'm certainly not going to call her a spoiled brat based on these articles.
The school is apparently backing her up on abuse allegations, and advised her not to return home.
http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20140302/NJNEWS/303020017/Morris-Catholic-HS-senior-suing-parents-who-won-t-pay-college?gcheck=1&nclick_check=1
Rachel Canning filed a certification with the court that contends her parents jointly decided on Oct. 29, 2013 that as of Nov. 1 her 18th birthday she would be cut off from all support both financially and emotionally. She said in her papers that Morris Catholic advised her not to return home and contacted the state Division of Child Protection and Permanency (known as DCP&P and formerly as DYFS) after Rachel alleged abuse.
My parents have rationalized their actions by blaming me for not following their rules, Rachel said in her court papers. They stopped paying my high school tuition to punish the school and me and have redirected my college fund, indicating their refusal to afford me an education as a punishment.
Morris Catholic President Michael St. Pierre said in a certification to the court that the school did call DCP&P based upon some allegations by Rachel and some difficult meetings between Rachel and Mr. Canning.
The court record also includes a letter from Morris Catholic English instructor and campus minister Kathleen Smith, who wrote that she was a witness to a rough encounter between Rachel and her mother in mid-October 2013 and heard Elizabeth Canning call her daughter a foul name and say she didnt want to speak to her daughter again.
Rachel has excellent grades and will not be removed from the school for this nonpayment; however, her parents do have a contractual obligation to pay. . . . . "
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)Please explain exactly what this abuse was.
Thanks.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Do we really think those allegations shouldn't at least be seriously considered?
But the article I linked to before just says that the school observed the father's interactions with the girl, that the school advised her not to go home.
All I'm saying is that we don't have the facts, and it bothers me that so many here are automatically jumping to the conclusion that the parents are telling the truth and the girl isn't. Let the judge decide.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572711/Father-spoiled-high-school-cheerleader-18-suing-parents-claims-daughter-ran-away-believed-better-own.html
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)The girl is 18. She made her bed, now she has to lie in it.
IMHO, she is going to regret filing this lawsuit for many reasons.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Don't you think those allegations should at least be investigated?
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)What physical abuse?
Wasn't this abuse already investigated? Nothing was found, no?
Parents should pay HS tuition and college too....but nothing else.
I believe the friend's father/attorney should have stayed out of the entire situation.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)And CPS did investigate, but we only know what the father said about the investigation (that she was "spoiled" -- which doesn't sound like something a social worker would say -- to me.). But in any case, CPS is tremendously overstretched and is not going to spend its resources on a girl who was almost or already 18. She's not their problem anymore.
Why should the attorneys have stayed out of the situation? If money that was gifted to her is being withheld now, the only way to get it is through legal action.
It's easy for me to believe the daughter's story is true because I know that having a wealthy family doesn't protect a child from abuse. We have a young woman living with us right now who was abused -- no question -- her other relatives confirmed it to me. No one in her extended family ever offered to help her though, so she finally escaped and came to us. What did her relatives tell me? That her adoptive mother put her to work for her wealthy relatives -- that she was treated like an indentured servant -- while she was in high school. As a consequence, she didn't graduate. Since coming to us she's gotten her GED and she's almost finished an Associates Degree.
So now I see this other wealthy family, determined to keep this girl from finishing her education. I don't see much love there. Rachel's family seems to be all about control. I'm glad she has allies in her school and in the families of her friends.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)her parents' problem.
Sure, sue for the college tuition money, but nothing else.
She needs to get a job.
She didn't like her parents' rules. Lets see how she like the rules in the real world.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)immediately discounting that?
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)Her parents should pay her HS tuition and ethically, should pay for college. Other than that.......
Just read that she was suspended from school twice last year, ignores her curfew, bullies her sisters and is supposed to be taking medication.
kiva
(4,373 posts)Not being argumentative, but I really don't understand why it's a moral obligation for parents to pay for an adult child's college education.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)But if they have a college fund already set up for her, I just believe that they should let her have it.
It's a crappy situation all around...maybe if they let her have the money or paid the tuition for her, they may be able to salvage a relationship with her.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)a) playing it safe for themselves, because they can be held accountable for not reporting abuse 'allegations'
b) playing it safe, for Rachel's sake, to insure there is an investigation
c) maybe they don't believe Rachel's allegations at all, but realize the only way she will accept that she is
not being abused is to hear it from another authority. Some children today have some really warped ideas
about what abuse and neglect are.
WE JUST DON'T KNOW.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)your tune. apologist.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)gives them the right to renege on the contract that they signed last spring with the school, to pay tuition funds that the school is counting on.
All private schools get enrollment contracts signed in the spring, and expect parents to pay the contracted funds in the fall. The schools have to budget for the following year, and they can't have parents suddenly pulling out funds at the last minute.
demwing
(16,916 posts)"Let a judge decide" right?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)they signed a contract with the school.
The issue I'm reserving judgement on is whether the girl or the parents or both are to blame for the problems they've been having with each other.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I have read the articles, including the one you posted, and cannot find where they are deadbeat parents. Where are you getting that from? What information given leads you to that conclusion? Just trying to pull out of the contract makes them deadbeats? From all of the stories posted, seems like they have done a pretty good job at raising a spoon fed little princess.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)They aren't excused by the fact that they're mad at their daughter right now.
They owe the money to the school even whether or not she attends it. Every private school has to rely on those enrollment contracts to hire teachers for the next year. The whole thing would fall apart if parents could pull out at the last minute for any reason. If parents want that option, that's what tuition insurance is for.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Her parents sent her to an expensive private school on THEIR dime, got her a car to use as she pleased on THEIR dime and saved THEIR money to send her to some expensive private college, and she leaves home and actually SUES her parents because she's such an entitled shit that has never had to earn a single thing for her own self all because she doesn't want to follow the rules of their home.
She's a fucking little brat that has been handed free of charge stunning advantages that I could never have even dreamed of yet I never considered that my parents were somehow "abusive" because they had some rules I didn't like. Having your child stick to a curfew and not wanting them to hang out with bad kids they can easily recognize as bad since it's them that are the grown-ups here and have been there, done that is just basic good parenting. But this girl that has never lifted a finger for herself her entire life and has been handed extraordinary advantages most could never god-damn dream of has "deadbeat" parents in your eyes.
If her parents made any mistakes it was allowing this girl to have TOO MUCH without doing a damn thing to EARN it thus helping to create the entitled little brat she is. Sending her to private school just put her in the company of scads of other even wealthier and even more entitled spoiled brats where she learned that instead of being privileged to be able to attend a private school her PARENTS have had to foot the entire bill for that she should be given even more without lifting a finger and run to a lawyer to sue her own parents when she doesn't get her spoiled brat way. I grew up surrounded by wealthy entitled shits like this that STILL expect handouts for their aged parents and never mind all the incredibly stupid life choices they made because they didn't want to work for a living and always coveted the things that wealthier people had that they didn't blaming their parents for not being wealthy enough for them yet having advantages due to the hard work of those parents that helped to create the monsters their kids became.
Her parents don't owe this asinine spoiled brat one single cent of the money THEY earned and THEY wanted to use to make HER life better but she's too entitled and nasty to recognize that and all because she doesn't want to follow simple basic house rules that ANY good parent would have. Instead of being smart and GRATEFUL for what her parents have done for HER with THEIR hard earned money and just follow the damn rules of THEIR home for a few more months until she goes to college she has a hissy fit, makes unfounded abuse allegations about her parents, voluntarily leaves home and into her boyfriend's home where her boyfriend's shitheaded father thinks it's a good idea to encourage her to SUE HER OWN PARENTS and taking on that task as her attorney for god's sake. I can certainly see where that kid became the bad apple her parents wanted her to stay away from with an ass of a father like that.
Her parents never OWED her a private tuition high school. They didn't OWE her a car for her that THEY paid for and pay everything else for in order that it be street legal and work efficiently. They never OWED her a college education, and I don't give a shit what kind of account they put THEIR money in to benefit HER. She never earned one single dime of it, yet thinks she's so entitled to whatever she wants that she doesn't even have to follow any house rules or be GRATEFUL for the advantages that her PARENTS worked and saved for HER. Fuck that nasty little entitled brat and the shithead attorney father getting in between a basic family dispute just to conjure a buck that happens every day everywhere by entitled little brats that have had everything handed to them on a platter by parents who only wanted their child to have every advantage they could give them.
"Deadbeat parents". Jesus Christ.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)payment they legally contracted last spring to pay. If they wanted to leave themselves an out, they should have purchased tuition insurance. Otherwise, they would be obligated to pay the school even if the daughter wasn't attending it.
All private schools have to develop budgets in the spring for the coming school year, and they do this based on the number of signed enrollment contracts that they have. Parents who sign these contracts and renege, even though they have the financial means to pay, are deadbeats, IMO.
Did you manage to overlook the part where her daughter accused them of physical abuse? What if that was true? Don't you think it is even a possibility that the girl may be being truthful -- as the school personnel clearly think. (The parents reneged on the tuition, by the way, after the school fulfilled its legal obligation to report possible abuse.)
This wouldn't be the first case where a cop brought thuggish behavior home, would it?
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Yes, she made allegations of physical abuse but not a one of them is backed by one single smidgen of fact.
It isn't the SCHOOL that is suing, or did you miss that? And maybe they aren't because the parents honored the contract with them and paid the bill. We don't know that since neither the school nor the parents have said anything about that. What we DO know is a lot of wild accusations by an entitled brat of a kid that voluntarily left home because she didn't want to follow simple and very basic house rules that any good parent would insist on. What we DO know is that her parents gave her advantages most parents couldn't do in a million years (like my own parents) in order to afford HER advantages in life that the average person can't get. And they did it with THEIR money that THEY worked to earn while this entitled little shit didn't contribute a single dime to nor anything else to EARN it.
Just can the cop-hate shit. What a foul and despicable excuse that's nothing but sicko rubbish and you know it. These parents gave her EVERYTHING with THEIR money so SHE could have advantages the average person couldn't god-damn dream of. But is she the least bit GRATEFUL??? Fuck no. She very obviously feels ENTITLED to these advantages by her own belligerent words that she never did one single thing to EARN nor contributed a fucking thing to. And because she doesn't want to follow basic house rules designed for HER wellbeing and safety anymore now that she's turned 18 she leaves home and tries to sue her own parents because SHE'S AN ENTITLED BRATTY LITTLE SHIT. If you somehow missed that very obvious bit about her and what she's done all because she doesn't want to follow basic house rules you're willfully blind to her being AN ENTITLED BRATTY LITTLE SHIT that is writ large and clear all over this ugly story.
What a travesty that instead of her parents using THEIR hard earned money for their own retirement and sent her ass to public school, didn't hand her a car they paid for and pay the upkeep for or she might have learned like the rest of us that the world doesn't owe you shit, and what you want you have to earn for yourself. What an absolute travesty that her parents love her so much that they saved money for HER so SHE could have extraordinary advantages that instead of being grateful for she throws it in their face in an absolutely epic way ALL because she didn't think she had to be respectful and follow basic simple house rules designed for HER wellbeing and safety. Fuck her.
Done with you.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)I would think they're not suing yet because they don't have to at this point. They know the girl is suing and they're waiting for the outcome of that.
And how do you know there isn't a "single smidgen of fact" backing up the girls allegations? Have you had a special peek into the CPS or court files? If so, please share!
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)God, what that person must think of my own parents for teaching us that life is hard, you have to earn what you get, and at 18 not only are you a legal adult but they worked very hard to teach us HOW to be an adult at that age. All while growing up surrounded by entitled shits of wealthy parents that handed them everything on a silver platter and still blame their parents for all their own adult mistakes believing their parents assholes for not bankrupting themselves to give them even MORE and on a gold platter.
treestar
(82,383 posts)to file a lawsuit, there has to be a cause of action in the law.
Logical
(22,457 posts)madaboutharry
(40,212 posts)who got in the middle of a family.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)madaboutharry
(40,212 posts)who got in the middle of a family.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)The school advised the girl not to return home, after school personnel witnessed what they thought was abusive behavior. The school says she's a top student and a wonderful person. They clearly think the parents are the problem.
The attorney-father is working for free for this young woman. Good for him.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)the school might just have been doing/saying whatever they could to try to get some kind
of resolution (ie saying well if you don't feel safe then don't go home), without having any
real idea or evidence that there was abuse. This would have been the safest strategy for
the school to employ, considering possible legal ramifications for the school.
And school administrators can make real doozies of 'decisions' that are hideous for a large
number of reasons, especially in today's litigous environments.
We just don't yet know.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)The school, having witnessed her parents' behavior, advised her not to return home. That raises red flags for me. Maybe the parents are right -- or maybe the young woman is. I think people should withhold their judgement.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)and she moved out. She is 18. When things got bad, they refused to pay the private high school she goes to, and the high school wants its money. She also alleged she was being "abused." When the school called Child Protection Services, the rep said that she found the girl to be spoiled. The lawyer that is suing claims that her "friend" (I guess her boyfriend) is "distraught" over his girlfriend's parents not supporting her.
She is 18. How long do parents have to pay for someone to party-party-party?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572315/High-school-cheerleader-18-sues-retired-police-chief-father-college-tuition-legal-fees-kicks-refusing-live-rules.html
Mariana
(14,858 posts)don't have anything negative to say about her. If the school were having any problem with her behavior, I imagine they'd take the opportunity to kick her out for nonpayment, but they aren't doing that. I'm more convinced than ever that the parents aren't telling the whole story.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)reached 18, since her relationship with them (the parents) had gone to hell in a handbasket. Tuition is money, which is what all schools survive on, and particularly private schools which are through-the-roof costly. Schools take their money very seriously They want that money, and I'm sure they wanted somebody to pay it.
More importantly, she didn't live with her classmates or her school administration, so they only saw her when she was at the school, and it was not they (classmates or school administration) who were paying the high school tuition. If she was being an ass, mouthing off, and being a complete jerk, well, that's her choice, but at 18 they owe her nothing.
We'll see what the judge does. I'd give $ just to sit in on that sham if it ever gets to trial. No self-respecting judge will allow that to even remotely rear its ugly head in a courtroom unless he's in the mood for comedy and bs.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Imagine the joy of teen years knowing there is a retired cop at home all day just for you.
Yes, I'm sure she was very disresptful.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)one way or another because the parents are contractually obligated.
In fact, if the school was mostly worried about their money, they would probably be taking the parents' side in this, and encouraging the girl to move back in with her family.
It's funny that you accuse the girl of mouthing off, because a teacher reported hearing the mother use foul language against the daughter.
How can you accuse this case of being a sham based on a few articles in a few papers? How can any of us outsiders know where the truth lies in this she-says/they-say situation?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)after witnessing the parents' interactions with her.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)and invite a great deal of trouble. Also, morally reprehensible to publicly
reveal things about the actions and behaviors of a minor or a student
in their charge. Who would send their child to a school if the school
feels free to announce to the press how their child behaves?
Catholic Schools actively recruit parents in many cities because
they need the tuition money that few can afford these days.
They used to be funded more by church plate collections, but
those are waayyyy down these days. When I went to Catholic
School(which I loved and am most grateful to the Sisters of Notre
Dame for their complete devotion to my excellent education),
my parents paid $60 a month for me, $30 a month for my sister,
and the third and following children (some people had 12-14 children
in their families in the 1960s) went FREE. They can't do that anymore;
there aren't enough Sisters and Brothers who used to live in poverty
and teach just for the love of God and humanity, and as I said,
church attendance and collections are way down.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)But we also know that school personnel witnessed what they thought was inappropriate behavior, and they advised the girl not to go home.
The school will get their tuition money one way or another, because every school gets parents to sign enrollment contracts in the spring, and holds parents to them.
yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)Asking the parents to pay for the private school (which they sent her to and contracted to pay) tuition is hardly paying for her to party. As for CPS - that is the dad's version of events you are citing and FWIW it does not sound like a term a professional CPS case worker would use but it does jive nicely with what the dad has said and is still saying. Seems like a convenient claim to me coming from the dad. The school called CPS partially based on an observed interactions between parents and daughter. 18 year old girls sometimes have boyfriends their parents do not approve of. I know that is shocking but it is not a reason for parents to cut off support.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)choice to send her to a private school was very, very generous of them. If there is a financial contract between them (parents) and the private high school, that's a financial agreement, and financial agreements need to be honored.
On a side note, I'm very, very familiar with Morristown, New Jersey (where they all live) and the public schools there are unusually fantastic, which is pretty shocking with such as Christie. The reason for this, is that Morristown is one of the wealthiest towns in the U.S. So, the parents are not some horned, evil freaks if they chose to send her not to even to a great public school, but to a private one.
Here's the key to choices of boyfriend or choices in lifestyle - if she has reached majority (18), you're 100% right, the girl has a right to choose how to live her life, no matter what that decision is. She can move out, hang out with anyone she desires, and do anything she wishes without asking her parents. On the other hand, when offspring reach majority the parents have no financial obligation. The only obligation here is to honor any financial agreement to the private school.
Regarding the college tuition savings plan (which everyone keeps mentioning might belong to the beneficiary), most if not all state tuition plans are owned by the initiators of the plans. I just googled New Jersey's own tuition savings plan, and in New Jersey these are owned by the initiators of the plan, and this can be anyone who starts a plan, a parent, an aunt or uncle, grandparent, friend, anyone. They are not owned by the student. In fact, as I've mentioned in another post, these plans are often cashed out by the initiator/owner for whatever reason without any regard for the beneficiary they started the plan for, because they are owned by the owner of the plan and not by the beneficiary. In fact, they can even be transferred from one child to another, or to the beneficiary upon the beneficiary reaching 18 (if the owners desire to do this). I reviewed New Jersey's Tuition Plan Withdrawal Form, and there is only a need for the initiator/owner of the plan to sign and submit the form in order to cash out the plan. The person for whom it is purchased (the beneficiary) is not the owner and can do nothing with the plan.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 3, 2014, 08:01 PM - Edit history (1)
Her parents are not responsible after age 18, but I wish they'd rethink the level of control they're expecting to have over her. If the boyfriend were such a bad influence, she wouldn't be such a good student. This is going to ruin the relationship between the girl and her parents. As a mom, and as someone who had controlling parents, I feel bad for everyone involved.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)The parents should pay (out of niceness) the high school until she graduates. I think the judge will laugh his behind off and fall off the chair when he hears the sheer frivolity and bs of this lawsuit which is going to clog the speed of justice for folks with real cases.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)but I don't think 18 is too old for a kid to still be supported. And I do think this is controlling.
Still, they have the legal power to be controlling.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)and she's one narcissistic freak, well then, she's done. I hope we get to find out what happens. I hate to be a voyeur about it, but it's such an absurd thing, that I'm curious.
The bad thing for the student is how everyone is taking it. All across the net the student is getting trashed for suing her parents, for seemingly absolutely nothing but a desire to control them.
cali
(114,904 posts)and way over generalized.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)with very, very bad results.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)We don't know the truth in this case, but the father says that the girl was alleging physical and emotional abuse. And CPS has dropped the case -- but they would in any case since she's over 18.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)I'm discussing the current trend in raising kids, and you're comparing it with criminal activity and crime.
You're not making any sense at all.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)based on such little, and such conflicting, information.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)They have no idea the value of money because they never had to work for anything in their life.
This young woman has a lot of lessons to learn about life.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)For example . . .
The school is supporting the girl, who is a considered a great student there. After witnessing interactions between the girl and her parents, they advised her to not go home and they reported the situation to CPS.
The parents themselves are deadbeats who are trying to renege on the enrollment contract they signed last spring -- maybe because they are mad at the school for taking the girls' side.
If the school only cared about the money, they'd be pushing the girl to make up with her family.
I say we don't know enough about this case to know who's really in the wrong. I'm certainly not jumping to the conclusion that it's the daughter, just because it was the parents who made this all public and got their side of the story out there first.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)sure that that isn't true? Are you completely sure that the father is right when he claimed CPS said the girl was just "spoiled"? Is "spoiled" a word you think caseworkers would generally use?
Have you ever heard of a case before where the CPS overlooked a case of abuse? Especially when the child came from comfortable circumstances?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)which is the vehicle many parents use. It allows them to pay reduced income taxes on the money -- and they can't take it back because they don't like what the child is doing at age 18.
I've seen that one pulled before.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)the parents were trying to take the money back?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Divorce is a difficult time for the practiced tax evader.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)who would otherwise have paid for college still needs to do that after a divorce -- the divorce doesn't change anything, even though technically support isn't usually owed past age 18.
This makes sense to me.
In my family's case, my mother agreed to settle for a flat sum, so she wasn't dependent on my father for either alimony or my brother's college tuition. Under the circumstances, I think that was a smart choice. Every month could have been a fight, otherwise.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)I have never seen one in my days practicing as a tax CPA and that appears to run contrary to IRC Sec. 529.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)She sounds like a good kid and I bet she is.
Mariana
(14,858 posts)are permitting her to continue to attend, even though her tuition isn't being paid. If she were a rotten kid, I think they'd just toss her out.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)These don't seem like neglectful parents, or they wouldn't have been paying for private school. And apparently the report of the state re the abuse complaint was that there was no abuse, so now this.
I don't really understand the purpose of it, unless it is to embarrass the parents in the hopes of getting them to pay college tuition.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)that the girl was alleging physical and emotional abuse. He says it was all a lie -- but how the heck are we supposed to judge that at this point?
I think it's telling that the school is strongly supporting her - and they know her better than any of us do.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)school, and morally advisable actions that would be taken even if the school
has absolutely no idea what is going on in the home. In effect, the school
transferred any responsibility in protecting the minor from themselves to
an outside source. There are no statements of 'strong support', just the
statement that Rachel alleged abuse and so they reported it for investigation.
The school also reported the use of strong language by the mother in one incident.
That could merely be evidence of hurt, anger, frustration, a great deal of pain on
the part of the mother.
We just don'tknow
H2O Man
(73,559 posts)I wish her success.
Response to H2O Man (Reply #39)
Post removed
madville
(7,412 posts)I have a teenage son and he has to play by my rules if he wants perks like a vehicle, car insurance, gas money, etc. As long as he does decent in school and stays out of trouble we're good.
He knows the second he messes up with school, drives drunk, does drugs, gets in trouble with the law, etc it's all gone. He's tested me before with the school part, parked the truck for 6 weeks for an F on the report card.
If he wants to play by his own rules he can do it on his dime, pretty straight-forward deal.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)"include reconsidering her relationship with a boyfriend who may be a bad influence"
Sure.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Has his school ever told him he should move out?
I'm sure that hasn't happened, so it seems as if your situations may not be comparable.
tabbycat31
(6,336 posts)I heard she works at Friday's (Buzzfeed found her FB page).
idendoit
(505 posts)If not then the parents, I would think, would be eligible to a counterclaim.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)Whether she has a case or not is another matter. She may have a breach of promise case.
idendoit
(505 posts)Or on what grounds she can lay claim to future earnings of her parents.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)Like I said up-thread, it's probably not as cut and dried as the headlines suggest.
At the very least, the parents owe expenses accrued while she was under their roof and/or acting on prior promises to pay her high school tuition.
Worse case for the parents is what some of the attorneys quoted in the article suggest and what seems to be precedent in New Jersey law:
Helfand says her client has not moved beyond (her parents) sphere of influence and per New Jersey law may be deemed non-emancipated.
A childs admittance and attendance at college will overcome the rebuttable presumption that a child may be emancipated at age 18, reads an earlier state court decision.
But the attorney for Mr. and Mrs. Canning Laurie Rush-Masuret is claiming Rachel removed herself from that 'sphere of influence' when she voluntary left her parents' home.
Family law attorneys Sheldon Simon disagrees.
A child is not emancipated until theyre on their own Even if a child and the parents dont get along that doesnt relieve the parents of their responsibility, Simon told the DailyRecord.
It really isn't cut and dried.
The court isn't going to take kindly to throwing a promising honor roll student to the wolves and there IS precedent to consider the child un-emancipated in family court.
The grounds she has to lay claim to the parents' future earnings are the same grounds a divorced spouse has - New Jersey law, precedent and what the family court judge says.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)And so that will depend on how her parents saved that money. If they gifted it to a Uniform Gift to Minor account, they can't ungift it.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)bank or investment account, then it's hers. They can't take it back or spend it on anyone but her. The only question is when she will be able to direct the spending; until then a custodian will do it for her.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)the day they turn 18. I know. I set one up for my son when he was 8. He walked into the bank with his ID and birth certificate a week after he turned 18 and the bank took my name off the account and turned the money in the account over to him.
If what is in dispute is a UGTM account, then Rachel should have been able to walk into the bank on her 18th birthday and withdraw the funds.
Perhaps the college fund account in her case is a different vehicle or maybe the UGTM rules have changed so that the 18 yr old can't unilaterally withdraw the funds anymore?
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)gather all the 17-year-olds and their parents at the beginning of the school year and have the talk about "what happens when the student turns 18".
Mariana
(14,858 posts)It sounds like the parents agreed to pay her tuition, and then decided to renege.
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)This family needs to go to family counseling and not a courtroom to resolve their differences.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)with her name on it, then she is legally entitled to it and the judge will award it to her.
You can't legally gift money for IRS purposes and then ask for it back or try to withhold it.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)involving elements of contracts law AND family law. Not frivolous at all and I'd bet many lawyers are going to be watching what the outcome is on this case.
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)Sometimes parsing nuances in the law need to take a back seat to good old fashioned American common sense.
mackerel
(4,412 posts)Whose parents stopped paying the tuition when she turned 18. She worked a deal out with the school and got a job. (This was back in 2011 economic downturn)
brentspeak
(18,290 posts)One side's lawyers wanted to publicize this.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)becomes like a business deal. Should she stay and abide by their rules so she can continue to go to college, or should she just cut ties and start her own life? Either way the relationship is going to be hurt. My husband and I had to make some adjustments to allow our daughter to have a little more freedom when she turned 18 and graduated high school. The most important thing to us was that she be able to go to college which she probably wouldn't be able to do if she had to move out on her own.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)offspring when they become 18. The point is you are supposed to be giving them the freedom to make mistakes at that point and that includes dating the wrong person.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Most of the folks in this thread miss the point.
Just what sort of college fund are we talking about here?
Is that the kind that was used to shelter income? The kind that gets a deduction and no capital gains?
Because if they have the right kind of "college fund", then they could see a windfall by discontinuing her senior year tuition and screwing up her entry chances at a pricey college.
Or... is this an ordinary savings instrument which has for years been promised to her as her "college fund" by her parents.
I want to know more about this "college fund" and what this honor student daughter was doing which made it just impossible for her to stay in the house?
And if the answer is "having sex with her boyfriend" then I hope she gets every penny of it.
I'm sorry, but having myself taken in my kids' teenage friends when "mom & dad kicked me out", and having seen mine grow up and leave (for now), I think there is something just bone dead stupid about kicking your own child out of your house unless they are a dangerous psychopath threatening your very existence.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)She gets nothing under the fancy schmancy book learnin' laws of "ipso facto SHE'S A BRAT!!!!!!!! Imperium delectum post Mortimer"..... Therefore she gets NOTHING!!!!!!! ...... NOTHING!!!!!!.... Do you here me? NOTHING!!!!!
Never mind the attorney apparently says there is precedent for determining an adult child can be deemed "un emancipated" by the courts. But what does a family law attorney know? NOTHING!!!!!! GET A JOB!!!!!
DebJ
(7,699 posts)They claimed she chose to leave.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)TeamPooka
(24,229 posts)The court cannot compel the parents to act here without risking an overturned verdict in a higher court.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)If they did so, the IRS and everyone else will say that it already belongs to her. It probably already does, if she's 18.
TeamPooka
(24,229 posts)to pay for college then it is no different than a money jar of cash that has been saved for a rainy day.
You can decide to spend it when it is sunny if you want to.
It the account was in the daughters name already the money could be hers but it doesn't sound like that is the case because she has no access hence the lawyer asking for the money.
I like how the lawyers bill is $12K for his teen age daughters friend.
What a tool.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)All you have to do is fill out a form at the bank for a Uniform Gift to Minors account, name your "custodian" and deposit the money.
The age in her state for getting full access is 21; before then the custodian -- who is probably the parent -- is supposed to manage the money for the benefit of the child.
You've misunderstood about the lawyer's bill. He's not charging the girl $12K. He's paying $12K to a different lawyer to represent her.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)I doubt they transferred the tuition plan to her name upon her reaching 18, since she's been behaving this way prior to 18 and upon reaching 18, and now, after having reached 18.
TeamPooka
(24,229 posts)Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)They sound like a couple of control freaks, just from the little I've read. You can't kick your 18 year old out into the shit world you helped create. One generation fucks up everything and leaves this country worse than their parents left them, and their parents before them, and so on, and so on. As a result, college graduates can't find jobs and their tuition is their mortgage, so they won't be able to buy a house. These crap parents probably vote Republican, too. You could have kicked your kids out 20 years ago and they'd do okay, but not now.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)I don't care what 'arguments' you have with your teen...you don't just decide to not pay their tuition (especially if they are doing good in school as it seems this girl is) and kick them out unless you are an A1 asshole/shitty parent.
I don't think this girl is 'spoiled' either. Too many people here at DU think 'spoiled' means a kid who expects to be supported by their parents. Guess what, you have a kid, you support that kid, unless, as someone said, they are some kind of psychopath and you are in danger from them. I've had so many family members (yep, all conservatives) declare my kids are 'spoiled' but there is no basis for that except that I don't spank. My oldest has a steady p/t job, babysits regularly, is an honors student and activist. My second daughter had a paper route for more than a year and is also an honors student and plays a lot of school sports and is active in the drama club. My third daughter has had a 'perfect' report card for 3 years in a row now. My youngest for 2 years in a row. All their teachers RAVE about how much they love my kids. I mean, seriously, pull me aside to tell me how great my children are. I have friends and relatives who are always commenting on how well behaved they are. I'm in university and one test prep class I had to bring my youngest daughter for 8 hours every week and everyone in class and my instructor commented on how she was the most well behaved kid they had ever seen in their lives.
So, I KNOW my kids aren't 'spoiled'. For some, 'spoiled' means a kid who isn't beaten into submission I guess. How dare a child have an opinion or options! Don't they know they were LUCKY to have food and water for 18 years goddamnit!
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)and the parents can't take it back or use it for any purpose except for her (i.e., for her support, or for educational expenses). The only question is when the custodian -- probably the parent -- lets the daughter control the funds directly. But they can't spend it on themselves or a sibling. That's not an option.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)home at age 18, but I did pay for my entire college education without help from my parents with the exception of about $250 when m oldest brother was short that amount. My parents then gave each of us (three brothers) $250. I was a freshman at the time. Actually, it never occurred to me that my parents owed me the money to pay for my college tuition. What a difference a generation makes.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)changed in the 90's?
When I went to college, a student could declare herself financially independent at the age of 21, and get federal financial aid. Now you have to be 24 to do so -- even if you have a job and file your own income taxes. Until you're 24, you can't get financial aid unless your parents fill out their financial information on the FAFSA forms.
It's a different world now. That's why students are graduating with such horrible debt.
At the University of Washington, estimated annual costs for students living with their parents are now more than $19K; for students living away from home, they are $27K. How many college students do you think can get jobs that could cover costs like this?
https://admit.washington.edu/Paying/Cost#freshmen-transfer
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)I did not qualify for financial aid so I had to get student loans and worked to pay for school. My two brothers did the same.
MissB
(15,810 posts)borrow $5500/year her freshman year. That won't cover tuition at a university, let alone room/board/books/fees.
It used to be possible to work part time and borrow the maximum in student loans and graduate in a reasonable time frame. Given that many college jobs are minimum wage, her prospects for paying college on her own aren't great.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)to pay my tuition. I also managed to liveat home my freahman and sophmore years. I managed to follow my parents' rules.
MissB
(15,810 posts)I was able to fund my college by taking federal loans and working part time and doing an internship. I worked as a cashier during high school, but shifted over to engineering jobs/internship in college which didn't pay nearly as well!
Tuition back then was about $1000/term.
Our state university's current tuition is $9000/year, and room/board/books/fees are another $9000. That's actually a pretty good deal - some states are charging $25k/year and on up.
Suddenly that $5500 in guaranteed federal student loans for freshman year doesn't stretch very far. $13,000 is the gaping hole each year. If they have a bit more than that set aside before their freshman year then they may be able to swing that. But starting from zero (like the kid in the story) would require an average of 3/4 time working at slightly more than minimum wage for a student. Nearly full time working and full time student don't mix terribly well. It can work, but it'll be a fairly rare individual that can keep that up for four straight years.
I do agree with what you seem to be saying about commuting! I was able to do the same thing (though I had my own apartment or roommate setup during college instead of living at home). Not all kids can commute from home (like the girl on the article - I think we can agree that she is unlikely to be living at home ever again!!!). One of my coworkers really regrets not sending his kid to community college for the first two years then letting his kid commute to the in-town state university. It's markedly more expensive to live on any campus!
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)and then to a state school in the 80s. Yes, college tuition has skyrocketed since that time. Big pharmceutical is pilloried but I think big education should also be taken to task for what has happened at colleges and universities.
My brother's kids went to a private university. Thankfully, two of tbem overlapped for three years and they got a two-for-one deal on tuition.
MissB
(15,810 posts)I have two in high school, one year apart so that two for one does sound great.
The difference in tuition costs from when dh and I went to college and now is horrific. We've been saving in 529 plans for years, but still.
TeamPooka
(24,229 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)I get very bad vibes from these parents.
1awake
(1,494 posts)this aside, she needs to grow up and except responsibility for herself, her choices and actions.
nolkyz
(55 posts)MissB
(15,810 posts)about establishing - legally - that her parents are unwilling to pay for college.
She is going to be unable otherwise to attend the college of her choice at.all.
As PNWmom pointed out, she is reliant on her parents for their financial info when applying to colleges. Since she is supposed to be an excellent student, it isn't inconceivable that she is applying to a college that requires a CSS profile - well, at least the FAFSA. To fill these out, one needs ones parents to cooperate.
The ONLY way around that is by proving that your parents are unwilling.
Granted, she could apply to somewhere like University of Alabama (well known for its generous merit aid that, depending on her chosen course of study, may give her enough $ to only need the maximum federal student loan amounts. Or she could start at community college.
But I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on the abuse claims, and I think it's reasonable to assume she may just be trying to establish that she can't get her parents to provide the detailed info that is required. That'll give her access to a bit more federal money at least.
Edited to add: EFC is established based on the FAFSA (based on parents' income) and the CSS profile delves deeper into the details of her parents' financial ability to pay. Her EFC is likely quite high at this point as her parents make enough to send her to a private school. Establishing that your parents won't contribute is a necessarily difficult thing to do otherwise all parents would simply state they are unwilling to pay a cent. College acceptance deadlines are only a bit under two months away. It's an issue that needs to be worked out soon, otherwise a gap year is in order.
Gah. EFC is the expected family contribution.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Either her parents will have to cough up money that's in her name because it was previously gifted. Or, they won't -- and she'll have demonstrated that they really were that intransigent and that she deserves to have the dependency override from the FAFSA requirement.
Since I went to college they raised the age of expecting a parent contribution from 21 to 24. I don't think many are aware of that, unless it affects them directly.
MissB
(15,810 posts)independent status back in the late 80s. I'd spent my senior year of high school crashing on friends' couches, working evenings and weekends because my parents moved out of Alaska at the end of my junior year of high school.
However, is moved down to the Pacific Northwest to live with my dad after I graduated from high school as I took a gap year. That shot down any chance of being an independent (even though he contributed nothing). It worked out, but I know what sort of a setback that can provide.
Blue Diadem
(6,597 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)since she's over 18. But hopefully any future employer won't penalize her for being the victim of abusive parents, IF that is the case.
(Her father claims she alleges physical and emotional abuse, and the school reported interactions they were concerned about.)
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)Until this goes to court who - knows. I want more details.
But look at my subject line . . . I always thought it terribly unfair that in NY State (as one example) a child of divorce could have their non custodial parent on the hook until the age of 21 (including university) and a child from an intact home did not have that legal standing.
This could be a test case - if she is successful - that could be used to challenge state child support guidelines across the country. If the age of majority is raised across the board to 21 for ALL individuals in every state regardless of their parents marital status - it shifts things. Especially in these days of rising college costs . . .
Now look at who HER atty is -
http://www.newjerseyfamilylawyerblog.com/
Whether one agrees with this young woman or not - 'Well played madame. Well played'.
I'd love to be a bug on the wall when this kid goes in and asks for child support.
Note the Emancipation rules in NJ
ETA: the link to the state's overview - http://www.njchildsupport.org/assets/documents/Child%20Support%20Handbook.pdf
I hate to say it - but if she was a C.O.D. - her non custodial parent might have been court ordered to pay for her University. Is she asking for anything different than a child whose parents are not married, who has decent grades and has an opportunity to go to college?
I don't see the difference. I never have.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)exboyfil
(17,863 posts)depend on the status of the parent's marriage. I disagree that a parent should have any financial obligation to the child once the child graduates from high school or leaves high school after age 18 or if the child reaches 20. Special needs may be an exception.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)Disagreeing with a parent having any financial obligation to the child once they . . . It's the state of family law in America today.
Not in all states - but NJ is very similar to NY. Non Custodial parent - there's a reason why the acronym C.O.D. came into play.
Now having had a brother who had custody from the time my niece was 15 and on - and considering her mother threw her away once she had her shiny new toys (aka new family) - I'm very glad when he went back for custody he had that written in. Ironically - what he could not get in C.S. over the years - her appealing on her own behalf when she was 18 with her father is how she has been able to go to R.I.T.
These stories/situations happen to both men and women. Before we throw up a new gender war - let's be aware that men also receive c.s. And have to fight for c.s. And have to go for wage garnishments.
Now - I think we would both agree - all or nothing.
If children of intact homes are not guaranteed financial assistance for University - no one should be.
And note - my parents paid for the vast majority of my private Catholic University education. However - for me that was a PRIVILEGE. Not a guarantee. And the rules were they didn't pay for anything less than a B.
If you received less than a B - you owed them money back.
exboyfil
(17,863 posts)state school for both kids, and I am very active in their education. I have paid for several courses for both kids outside of the 529 (they are still both in high school) as well. I actively tutor them in many of their clases.
I do this out of love, and they do not view this as something which I owe them. I am also deciding what I can do to help my younger daughter out in medical school. I have told her I won't help, but if I can treat my other daughter the same (give her equivalent money to start a business or buy a house for example) then I still continue to help so long as I am financially able to do so. I have been fortunate that my employer has given very nice bonuses the last several years. The bonus money goes straight into the 529s.
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)Waiting for details.
treestar
(82,383 posts)This is where the news makes sensationalism out of something that could be ordinary, or an interesting legal issue that isn't resolved, or just a bad lawsuit with little chance of success. The media sensationalizes but never gives us any education or elucidation on the state of the law.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)on my local news and he stated that the daughter will get the college fund they have for her.
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)instead of going the shallow, 'inherit her riches' route. She has ambition and, in spite of this upheaval, she not only stayed in high school, but is excelling while taking on extra curricular school activites. I, for one, am proud of her.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)Sad for her.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Do you know them personally? Some people in their community seem to think very poorly of them.
I never hurled pejorative epithets at my children, ever, in all their years with me, but Rachel's mom did, not in private either, but in front of other people, and her father conducted himself in a manner that concerned the school so much that they advised Rachel to move out.
Kind is not the right word for any of that.
Secondly, the assets may or may not be theirs. It depends on contract law, what promises they made to their daughter, Rachel, if Rachel reasonably relied on those promise and what family law is in her state. Those are all legal questions for a court to decide, which is why it has escalated to that level.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)And believe me, public schools in Morristown are great. Public school is expensive and maybe a bit more lavish.
New Jersey's college tuition plan does not belong to the beneficiary. It is an asset of the parents. Google it yourself. Most college tuition savings plans are.
As for promises, she's 18. Upon reaching adulthood, unless things are written down, or in her name, there's not much she can do.
As for epithets, how do you know they hurled epithets at her? You're assuming too much, yet pretending I'm the one assuming too much.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Even the greatest parents in the world expect some return on that kind of investment.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Any one submitting a complaint, especially if it is found valid.
Thing is, I don't know if this is frivolous or not, I don't have all the sides yet. All I know is, it's a young woman who is still in High School but reached the age of majority is suing her parents. Details pending, so it is mostly just gossip fodder for people who get scandalized that some "kid" is being a "brat".
That the school has mentioned that she should not go back to the household, and that a lawyer has taken her case, knowing how bad it would play in the Public? I am willing to keep quiet and wait for more information.
Still, going for a lawsuit just makes sure that this family will remain broken for a long while.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)Screw her parents if they promised her a college fund then she has ever right to sue for it, a verbal contract is also binding it is just harder to prove. However the existence of the college fund in her name is basically proof in of itself unless the parents claim they weren't setting a side money for her.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)They just refuse to fund a hateful little snot. Seems to me like they are possibly preventing inflicting on the world yet another selfish, self centered, self absorbed mean human being. Maybe she'll wake up and realize kindness and respect count?
She should consider herself lucky she gets the college fund. That says they STILL care.
They just can't tolerate that disrespect.
And I have a tremendous respect for her father. That email stated clearly - you aren't going behind my wife's back. We are a team, a unit, and we took vows. You will deal with my wife.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)I know it's the D.M. - but it's pretty clear -
She's suing her parents for Child Support.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2573165/My-mom-called-porky-dad-got-drunk-told-I-just-daughter-Explosive-claims-spoiled-cheerleader-18-suing-parents-support-ran-away.html
She states that her parents have a combined yearly income of between $250,000 and $300,000 and she is entitled to $654-a-week in child support.
But Elizabeth and Sean Canning, from New Jersey, furiously hit back, completely dismissing the stunning allegations and calling their daughter a liar and a thief, who is obsessed with alcohol.
They claimed her boyfriend Lucas Kitzmiller is a terrible influence and Rachel ran away from home after getting suspended from high school in an incident that involved him.
It's a fairly lengthy article - but it includes some eye opening emails.
Right now - if the bulimia is true - and she's not whole and healthy - I tend to believe her parents. And I say that having lived that self inflicted insanity for 13 years. Bulimics who actively engaging in that behavior are inherently sneaky people. Their illness requires it . . .
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)'The case worker told us that it was in her opinion that we spoiled our daughter. We gave her too much'
- Elizabeth Cannings
In Spanish we have a saying: Cria cuervos y te sacaran los ojos. (Raise crows and they'll tear your eyes out).
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)Of the hearing on NJ-12 this evening. 12 is our local 24 hour news station.
Her mom looked like she was in emotional hell.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)She's a vicious thing, this student.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)I think there are some stellar parents who are not friends - they parent their children.
You can be friends with your kids later - like in their 20's.
But I know too many people with children in their late teens - their teens aren't angels by ANY means. . . but they don't pull this crap.
And I'm thinking of this children of attorneys, physicians, and entrepreneurs right here in NJ. I.E. - People who have much more money than this family did. Their kids just did not and do not behave this way.
Being mouthy, cutting school, and getting into trouble is par for the course - but outright disrespect of your parents? Writing something like that to your own mother - who brought you through her body and into this universe? She oughta be ashamed of herself.
Out of line! Over the line!
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)lenient, over-generous "friends" to their kids.
Unfortunately, it's a trend, a fad, to spoil kids intensely. I have a friend who is secretary at a high school. Until I met her, I had no idea that a secretary at a school is one of the "gate-keepers" to the school. She has some stories that are doozies. Stories such as, a kid called a parent (after lunch) and said, "I want a chocolate milk shake. Pleease bring me one! Pleeeeeeeeeeease!" (This, during class, and another student heard her). So what did the parent do? She rushed out of work, went through the drive-thru, bought the milkshake, and was suddenly standing in front of the secretary yelling at her because she refused to take her kid out of math class so she could enjoy her milkshake. She finally had to take her out of class, and the mother and daughter sat there as she enjoyed her milkshake while the math class was going on. One of a father who walked into the school demanding to see his daughter immediately during a phys. ed. event. Apparently he wanted to give her a gift, and it had to be immediately so she could "get happy." Multiple stories of kids that claimed to be sick, when just a second before they'd been joking around and high-fiving, and suddenly the parents are there like johnny-on-the-spot to pick up the kid and take him home, and later the kids are seen out on the street enjoying themselves. Students that ask their parents to quickly do an essay asap and bring it to the school with the student's name on it so the kid could turn it in as homework. There are stories galore. Parents like these make school look like a zoo rather than a school. She sees a lot. The rest of us see a lot as well. It's insane and ridiculous, this trend to give kids a white glove royalty treatment. The results are quite evident. But you're right, not all are this way.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Last tweet, 12 minutes ago -
Update -
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Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)City Lights
(25,171 posts)blueamy66
(6,795 posts)Bet she's going to want to go home now.
shanti
(21,675 posts)that were read in court. i don't blame her parents at all, and she does sound somewhat spoiled. decisions like this are definitely a case-by-case basis.
when I turned 18, i felt that my parents (there were 3 of us kids) just wanted me to leave ASAP, so i made it easy for them. i left home on my 18th birthday with my 20 year old boyfriend...and married him 5 months later. i wasn't even a "bad" or disrespectful child either.