"Envy Versus Anger" by Paul Krugman at the NYTimes

[applegrove]

Envy Versus Anger

by Paul Krugman at the NYTimes

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/03/envy-versus-anger/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

"SNIP...............................



But the polling data don’t say anything about envy: when people say that they have lost their belief that hard work will be rewarded, they aren’t saying that they are envious of the rich; they’re saying that they have lost their belief that hard work will be rewarded. To the extent that people have negative feelings about the one percent, the emotion involved isn’t envy — it’s anger, which isn’t at all the same thing. Envy is when you have negative feelings about rich because of what they have; anger is when you have negative feelings about the rich because of what they do.

Think about it: Did the Occupy protests focus on how the one percent lives? Does muckraking journalism obsess over lifestyles?Yes, everyone knows about Mitt Romney’s car elevator, but it was the dorkiness rather than the luxury that made it a story. Actually, considering just how much the lives of the superelite have diverged from those of ordinary Americans, it’s kind of amazing how few articles there have been salaciously describing parties in the Hamptons and all that.

No, what’s really driving most of the ire is the sense that many of the rich didn’t actually earn that position, that they grew rich at the rest of America’s expense.

And what has happened since 2007 that might justify such a belief? Um, how about all those .01 percenters who were boasting about what a great job they were doing, but turned out to be leading us into a catastrophic financial crisis? What about the much-admired leaders who assured us that Wall Street was doing great stuff, and turned out to be totally clueless?




..............................SNIP"

[Igel]

1. "Envy" is a variant of anger.

It's not like we have a large palette of emotions. There are 4-6 of them, depending on whose research and conflation you prefer. (My understanding is that 6 is the most common, 4 is a newer formulation).

We have culturally conditioned variations on how to express them and how to shade them. It's like trying to draw a huge distinction between aquamarine and blue.

"That's in no way blue. It's offensive to think it's blue. How dare you say it's blue. It's aquamarine, not blue at all." As though English had 80 or 100 basic color terms.

[applegrove]

2. The point is that the 1% have taken specific and repeated actions to harm

the middle and working classes and they have every right to feel anger. All the Nazi comparisons the 1% are making assuming that they were just minding their own business when the masses attacked them with envy. The distinction is very important.

[senseandsensibility]

4. I agree.

It's a way of trivializing and ridiculing what is actually a very justified emotion. I am so sick already of hearing them whine about envy. It is really going to get old before the next election. Let's hope some Dems learn how or are willing to call them out on it.

[applegrove]

5. Calling it envy also implies the 1% who are wailing have done nothing wrong. That they and

their pure capitalism are pure and right. It happened again when the financial crisis happened and the banksters went to congress and refused to apologize. To this day they blame frannie and freddy for the bank crisis. Not their policies and capitalism. When they are not to blame for anything then they don't have to take responsibility for it and accept some change.

[starroute]

6. Envy is when you wish you were someone -- anger is when you're mad at them

It's possible to have a mixture of both. You can envy someone who has a beautiful house or expensive car that you'll never be able to afford while being angry at them for their selfishness and lack of concern for the less fortunate. But that doesn't make either emotion a version of the other. And you could envy, say, an entertainment or sports figure while being profoundly grateful for the pleasure they've given you.

And since you mentioned it, I've just done a little googling on those efforts to categorize basic emotions -- and envy doesn't even seem to be included. It apparently isn't visceral enough but is more dependent on complex social relationships.

[Jerry442]

8. Exactly. I'm envious of the kids I know because...

...they have youth and exuberance and don't have gray hair and arthritis. I'm not angry at them, but I am angry at the fat cat thieves and con men in the world that are screwing with their future.

[winter is coming]

10. Envy is what we felt for the rich when we had good-paying jobs and believed we'd retire in comfort.

Anger is what we feel now.

[flvegan]

7. And both are based in ego. n/t

[WCLinolVir]

12. Disagree. I can happily envy someone's possession but feel no anger.

Envy with anger is resentment of some form. Not the same thing. You can have envy, and you can have resentment concurrently, but let's not confuse the two. And then there is jealousy.

[Cha]

3. Kick.. no envy here. thanks apple

[daleanime]

9. K&R....

[davekriss]

11. Very well said, Dr Krugman!

"Envy is when you have negative feelings about rich because of what they have; anger is when you have negative feelings about the rich because of what they do" - precisely

[JayhawkSD]

13. I don't think it really matters.

I'm probably going to get flamed for my attitude here, but I think all of the focus on the rich is a huge distraction and waste of time. Suppose we talke all of their money away from them: is that going to help the middle class?

I think we should be focused on the issue that the middle class has been shattered and on how we go about restoring that. How do we "onshore" jobs and make the "unglamorous jobs," like welding and driving a truck, respectable and well paying again. How do we put millions of people back to work?

These are the things that matter. Venting our spleen about the fucking rich may feel good, but it wastes time and attention that should be spent focused on what matters in our daily lives.

I read a piece the other day that mentioned jobs such as pipefitter, welder and electrician, saying that they were "better than nothing." Really? I was appalled. These were the jobs that my generation aspired to, what we wanted to grow up to be. Men held these jobs and raised families on them with wives who did not need to work. One income could support a family. We need to be talking about how we get back to that. Not how pissed off we are that somebody has too much money.

[applegrove]

14. That is the whole point of making the

distinction between anger and envy. Anger for what someone does to you implies they have some responsibility. That it was there actions that hurt someone else. That all their capitalism is not totalky beautiful and beyond desrving of any examination. Said examination of the 1%‘s role,good and bad, would involve a discussion of how workers can better participate in a capitalist economy. By getting the 1% to think and agree it is just envy allows them to not do any self reflection. All parts of an economy have roles to play. And all those roles should be studied and discussed when the system is not functioning.

[JayhawkSD]

15. Thanks for missing my point...

...by continuing the discussion about anger against the rich.

[JoeyT]

16. You can largely blame the rich in your first paragraph for the problems in your last one.

Those jobs aren't something that can be offshored, but they don't pay much more than they did when your generation was aspiring to be them. Because rich assholes are keeping all the money. Tax income above 2 million at 90% and count all income as income, and uncap social security contributions, and you'll see kids aspiring to be in the skilled trades again.