SIGH. Having an argument with an Ayn Rand fanatic on another BB.

[arbusto_baboso]

he claims there's "no proof" that she collected social security benefits while she was alive, and that it's just on "anti-Objectivist sites".

Okay, who can link me to conclusive evidence on impartial sites?

[spockeye]

1. Here is one source...

http://www.patiastephens.com/2010/12/05/ayn-rand-received-social-security-medicare/

[fascisthunter]

2. I am convinced Ayn Randians are Fanatical Nutcases

[hifiguy]

9. The best quip ever about Rand and Randroids

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

[fascisthunter]

28. hahahaha... hey...

I liked Lord of the Rings!

[Johonny]

31. +1

[jtuck004]

33. ^Warning. Do not attempt to swallow coffee and read this at the same time.^ n/t

[WCGreen]

32. As well as having no sense of what constitutes literature or irony...

[gratuitous]

3. He's entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts

And yes, St. Ayn (you can abbreviate it Stayn if you like) collected government benefits after her money ran out. Naturally, to avoid the stigma, she collected the benefits under her maiden name, but she took that money from the evil government just the same.

The larger point shouldn't be lost, and that is that one of the reasons we organize ourselves into a society to take care of each other. Folks who begrudge others the means of existence are a hard-hearted and mean-spirited bunch, and I prefer not to associate with them. Sooner or later even many of them wind up needing a little smoothing of their life's path, and while it would be justice of a sort to kick them when they're down, that's not the way the world works, nor should it work that way.

[uncle ray]

4. why wouldn't she have collected?

it aligns perfectly with her self-centered, juvenile theories. "objectivists" merely project their selfish greed on the poorer folk.

[w8liftinglady]

5. Rand defended receiving Medicare and Social Security to Reason magazine

http://reason.com/blog/2011/01/30/rand-on-the-dole
She stated since she paid into the system,she deserved it.

I was a Randian Objectivist in college.I soon saw the error in my ways.

[gateley]

8. Great find! And I'm so happy you saved yourself! nt

[Aerows]

10. When we learn the errors of childhood, we change

I, too, for a brief spate in high school bought into the gig and read the Fountainhead. I loved it. Then I read Atlas Shrugged, and it kind of changed my thinking that this was a rather insidious philosophy.

Then I grew up, and realized she was insane with no attachment to reality.

She applauded a serial killer for making his own morality and not being afraid to exercise it.

That should tell you what you are dealing with when dealing with Randians. They make their own morality, and if it includes offing everyone on the planet in brutal ways, hey, they are just following their calling.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

14. Didn't she say something like when she would die, the world would die

and she therefore felt no compassion for the human race and no interest interest in the fact that other thinking, feeling human beings lived apart from and outside of her own subjective reality? This is not only a belief in the law of the jungle, but a rejection of Christian morality. How can Christians be Randians?

[Aerows]

15. In her beliefs

When she died, the world died, since in her mind the world revolved around her beliefs. She said that multiple times. Her life was the only one of value in the world, and she encouraged others to think that their lives were the only ones of value in the world.

That's the basis for Randian philosophy. They have no regard for anything except that which would prove them superior human beings by their success.

She worshipped a serial killer for his "morality" that was "self-fulfillment" which is why I also can't imagine anyone that is moral, religion aside, thinking she is a visionary.

She envisioned all that is wrong in my opinion.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

20. I was particularly thinking about all the supposedly upstanding moral Christians

who seem to follow the teachings of someone who didn't have any regard for the 10 commandments and didn't believe in the afterlife. The modern Republican party is filled with people like Ryan who are devoted Randian cultists. Ryan even requires all his staff members to read Atlas Shrugged.

[Aerows]

23. I can't speak for all of them

but the Randians I have known believe selfishness is the truest, first virtue. Helping an elderly neighbor, or sharing is a "dishonor" because you aren't forcing them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, or just die because they can't contribute. They don't say it like that, but that is what they mean.

Someone that gains notoriety by murdering people is more affectionately looked upon by their religio-philosophy than someone that lives in society and gives to the poor.

[Aerows]

17. I'd like to point out, too

That Randians have never believed that it should be open to the masses. The design of it was to produce people that were "less".

The foundation of most such philosophies is that "If I have more, you have less, therefore you are less than me."

They twist it with ideas of who is more worthy, but ultimately, it comes down to "I have more, you have less, you are unworthy."

[gateley]

6. The founder of the media department at the Ayn Rand Institute, Scott McConnell,

in his recent Oral History presented that she received SS under the name of Ann O'Connor -- her husband's name was Frank O'Connor. He got the info from someone @ Rand's law firm.

Here's the piece (I can't seem to cut and paste this morning) but it's from HuffPo so it will be discounted.

HOWEVER, I went to the Ayn Rand Institue's site and he's definitely a contributor there.

AND, the book is for sale on Amazon -- with more search there might be an excerpt from it somewhere that covers this.

http://www.amazon.com/100-Voices-Oral-History-Rand/dp/0451231309


Good luck, but she could rise from the grave, knock on this person's door and say "Yes! I had to go on SS to pay for my medical care!" and he still wouldn't believe it.

[JHB]

7. That doesn't seem like a rational response...

...dismissing something out of hand because it does not come from a "trusted source".

You can search for "social security" in this book:
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0451231309

Based on the parts of interviews that turn up in a search, she REALLY didn't want to, and basically gave power of attorney to someone else to handle those matters, but still took it (economic security winning out over pride, as long as it was kept sufficiently remote).

My guess is your non-objective Objectivist will pounce on how reluctant she was, and that it was only for her family (that is, husband), but fail to grasp that THAT is the whole point of SS and Medicare.

[Aerows]

11. She praised a serial rapist and murderer

For being so convicted in his principles as a man that made his own morality and his own ideals.

I am not making this up. She admired him because he had the courage to "go outside of cultural norms to establish his own beliefs to take what he wanted."

"He is a modern man that is not afraid to be himself, even if it is despised by society, he makes his own morality."

There you have Ayn Rand in a nutshell.

She was a fruitcake damaged by her childhood in Russia, which her socialist family got her out of, and came to the United States to spread her bullshit. Unfortunately, some of the poison seeds of Republicans find fertile ground in this manure pile, and try to harvest their bitter fruit that "Might makes right", "You aren't trying hard enough", and "You obviously aren't rich enough to suck the right dick to make it" flourishes in their ranks.

[tjwash]

12. A story of 2 randroids I personally know...

...never miss an opportunity to kick and scream up a blue streak over "teh evils of teh socializm!!!11!"

Yet...one was Army for 20 years, and a cop for another 20. He lived of the taxpayers for 40 years, pulls 2 retirement checks off of the taxpayer dole now, and of course medical...dental...all paid for by the taxpayers. Another one...Army for 20 years, works at the VA hospital now...same deal as the other.

Apparently the evils of socialism worked out just fine for their whole life, but no one else should get them.

I guess the point is, that it is akin to dealing with birther nutbags. You are probably wasting your time, as most randian fruitcakes like these are so deep inside their cognitive dissonance and "I got mine fuck you" hypocrisy that nothing will ever get through that.

[TlalocW]

19. I'm Facebook friends with a Randian

I hung out with him a few times through mutual friends. I don't know how or why he considers himself an individualist - he works for the city's library system, which is about as socialist an institution as you can get. He bought his first home a few years ago and used a government program for first time buyers to help out. He considers himself a Christian, and I've challenged him to name one thing from either Jesus or Ayn's philosophy that the other would agree with. He's never answered me.

Ayn's philosophy is for those people who really, really never got over being picked on as a child and need revenge fantasies of how the world should be to help them get through the day. They don't realize that there would be no chance of their surviving with John Galt and others on the mountain or wherever it is at the end of Atlas when the rest of the world with all the leeches and parasites is burning and being destroyed.

TlalocW

[tjwash]

21. I never understood that brand of cognitive dissonance myself

I've also always found that there were 2 types of randbots...the wealthy ones that have everything and want to damn sure keep it that way, and those that have very little and blame liberals and minorities for it.

[raouldukelives]

13. Never read a Rand book. Guess I should at some point.

I did see The Fountainhead with Gary Cooper. I thought it was pretty good for an old Coop flick.
In the film he is a rugged individualist. A man who would take no part and indeed looks in disdain on things like organized religion or the military. A self made man who wouldn't be caught dead investing his hard earned money into the stock market so mistreated children could make tennis shoes and computer parts for him to profit from.
I don't know if this holds true through the other Rand books. Might have to check one out.

[tjwash]

22. The movie must have avoided the rape part of the book

A big part of the fountainhead was the rape scene, which I always thought was a bit of Rand's kinkiness and S-M fantasies coming through. Sort of like the "Starship Troopers" book that Heinlein wrote, majorly being a showcase for his politics, but the flogging part of it showing his little kink for whipping that he might have had.

Ask a randian if they really believe there's such a thing as "welcomed rape," you'll shake your head at the response you get.

Hint...it talks about Roark raping her like “a master taking shameful, contemptuous possession”

[raouldukelives]

26. Yikes! Yeah they may have glossed over that part.

Sounds pretty sick.
I've never read Starship Troopers either. I think I'll get to that one first.

[Rex]

16. You are probably wasting your time.

Braindead people tend to stay braindead.

[SomethingFishy]

24. Yup.. any links, any facts, anything that goes against

Ayn Rand will be challenged as "liberal lies".

There is no disputing the fact that Ayn Rand's philosophy comes partially from her boyfriend/mentor William Hickman who was a kidnapper and a murderer. But no conservative will ever admit it.

[Rex]

27. They live in a world devoid of facts.

Ayn Rand wrote a horrible book...how anyone can build a cult around it, just screams IDIOT in my book.

[hifiguy]

29. Rand and L. Ron Hubbard were the two greatest

and most successful hucksters of the 20th century. Both were totalitarians but Hubbard made the millions for himself, only Rand's zombie-eyed acolytes made the cash from her "philosophy."

[Rex]

30. HA! Yes let us not forget Ron Hubbard.

They are a true match!

[EC]

18. Since some sources are already posted here

for you, all I wanted to say was that when I talk to people like this I just ask them if they like being known as that nut that still reads Ayn Rand like it means something and aren't just outdated romance novels.

[Ikonoklast]

25. Never confront a religious believer about the tenets of their faith.

You cannot dissuade them using fact as a rational basis of argument.


Rand was nuts, and an enormous hypocrite, and so are her followers.