General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe spin from the Putin's cheerleaders at Rt.com and elsewhere re: troops in Crimea:debunked!
Many of Putin's apologists and supporters have made much noise about the right for Russia to keep troops at bases in Crimea.
Here is the fact sheet from Putin's government from which his supporters and agents have been operating:
http://rt.com/news/russian-troops-crimea-ukraine-816/
This is not so clever deception. No one is arguing--no one--that Russia had a lease in the Crimean peninsula at which it was allowed to station troops.
What the Putinistas are trying to do is justify the armed occupation of Crimea--the sovereign territory of Ukraine--by Russian soldiers stationed at those bases.
Problem with that is, besides violating basic precepts of international law, it is a flagrant violation of several treaties Russia has signed (credit to moondust for finding this)
http://ericposner.com/the-1997-black-sea-fleet-agreement-between-russia-and-ukraine/
The treaty explicitly states that Russian troop exercises are to be conducted within the confines of its leased bases. See Article 8.2 below. Moreover, Article 6.1 states that
Anyone who tells you that the leases signed with Ukraine allow Russia's troops to leave their bases and assert authority outside the bases is lying to you out of some absurd loyalty to the Russian government.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)is opposing" types
I mean, people ask "why is CNN any more reliable than the Russian government?"
Mind-blowing.
PoliticalPothead
(220 posts)is that people actually think CNN is any better than RT when it comes to nationalist propaganda.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)CNN is a crap channel, but rt.com isn't a news network, it's the government.
PoliticalPothead
(220 posts)The fact that CNN is privately owned does not make it any less of a propaganda outlet.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)CNN is certainly imperfect, but its explicit purpose is not to help Barack Obama at all costs.
PoliticalPothead
(220 posts)Abby Martin spoke out against Russian military intervention on her show. She still has her job. That's more than can be said for journalists who dared to speak out against the Iraq war on mainstream US news outlets.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)PoliticalPothead
(220 posts)what would it say about US news outlets that won't even allow "managed dissent" on the topic of foreign policy?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)get no attention on CNN, Fox, MSNBC etc?
PoliticalPothead
(220 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)PoliticalPothead
(220 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)from engaging in a war of conquest against another country.
Do you know of anyone who thinks we should rubber stamp Moscow's actions?
PoliticalPothead
(220 posts)And like military intervention, it hurts the working class much more than it hurts the ruling class.
Also, Putin has shown no indication that he wants a war with Ukraine. He's just trying to protect Russian interests. Again, I'm completely against him using military intervention to protect those interests, but having the US get involved (more than it already has) isn't going to help anyone.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)the oligarchs?
PoliticalPothead
(220 posts)I'm just not sure how they would go about doing that.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)seize their bank accounts, stock holdings, etc
PoliticalPothead
(220 posts)won't just try to make up the difference by exploiting their workers even more, then I'd say go for it.
Number23
(24,544 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I mean, coherent, argumentative, apparently rational people. I simply refuse to believe it. I choose to believe that they know the holes in their argument and know it's wrong but simply won't let it go or admit they are wrong because of internet anonymity.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Real reason so many Republicans said Obama is a foreigner is they can't bring themselves to admit that any bad thing said about him is untrue.
Cha
(297,322 posts)talkin' to a brickwall, geek.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)The whole debate will be moot in a few days, anyway.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)mistaken if this is over after Russia annexes Crimea.
That's when the real pain for it begins, in terms of economic and diplomatic sanctions.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)It will be a quagmire that will last years.
Eventually Crimea will leave Russia, like all Russian occupied territories.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)EmilyAnne
(2,769 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)William769
(55,147 posts)They are pushing out more propaganda than a normal person can keep up with (and it's not even close to being truthful)! Kind of reminds me of Baghdad Bob.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,742 posts)William769
(55,147 posts)Who had the fucking nerve to say that? And if they did it with a straight face (pun intended), be very careful of them.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,742 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)It's starting to reek of desperation. I can't help but wonder where their emotional investment comes from.
Cha
(297,322 posts)"They will even alert-on and hide posts that call out RT's cheap propaganda techniques" Wow.. "what putin says goes and nobody better deny it ". Stomps little boots
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)Cha
(297,322 posts)Euromaidan PR @EuromaidanPR
Follow
30 Seconds to Mars just finished their concert in #Kyiv. Jared Leto with #Ukrainian flag |PR post
1:07 PM - 12 Mar 2014
102 Retweets 68 favorites Reply
Retweet
Favorite
http://theobamadiary.com/2014/03/12/the-president-and-first-ladys-day-2/
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)Cha
(297,322 posts)getting their marching orders from someplace.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)are attacking the belligerent John Kerry for advocating diplomacy.
Putin's illegal invasion is justified they say.
Cha
(297,322 posts)ground and help him then. Look the Ukrainians in the face instead of hiding behind their social devices.
Euromaidan PR @EuromaidanPR
Follow
30 Seconds to Mars just finished their concert in #Kyiv. Jared Leto with #Ukrainian flag |PR post
1:07 PM - 12 Mar 2014
102 Retweets 68 favorites Reply
Retweet
Favorite
http://theobamadiary.com/2014/03/12/the-president-and-first-ladys-day-2/
sheshe2
(83,791 posts)Cha
(297,322 posts)Somebody called out their favorite propagandashites.
I posted something the other day that I thought might get a hide depending on the jury.. but I did it anyway because it was worth it, imv.
This looks like one of those truths that can't be hidden just 'cause a bunch of snowden fans were on the jury.
Thanks sheshe~
sheshe2
(83,791 posts)Uncalled for and the work of dirty people.
I was alerted on for saying to someone "he haz a sad". Seriously? I did not get a hide as Whisp did. Yet WTF is going on here!
Cha
(297,322 posts)wanted to say that I've been on more than a few juries lately that we were all asking " IS Up with the alerter?". Little whiny thin skinnies. One in particular .. someone on the jury had predicted a 6-0 Leave Alone.. and they were right.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Mar 10, 2014, 08:58 PM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter needs to not bring the jury into a "difference of opinion" dust up. The post as is.. is okay.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This will be 0-6.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter is advised to get a life.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't see anything uncivil about that comment.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Judging this post only...I see no reason to hide.
sheshe2
(83,791 posts)Thanks Cha, you made me smile, even though I don't feel like it.
Thanks~
Cha
(297,322 posts)I like it when it's done for me.
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)these folks to take over DU because there's a strong anti-American presence here. It's run a few folks off.
sheshe2
(83,791 posts)It's out of control! Completely out of control!
Cha
(297,322 posts)bad mushrooms.
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)hide or not hide posts, and their reasoning isn't within DU guidelines they need to be kicked off jury duty. I think there's a need for 7 jury members, but that isn't the real issue.
Cha
(297,322 posts)JI7
(89,252 posts)States as being the power behind everything bad that happens in the world. these people are ignorant of the world outside .
Tarheel_Dem
(31,235 posts)quite frankly, a bit frightening & fringey!
Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).
Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)total CT. I think many of the people we're talking about have been here a while and they're serving on the juries. I hope Skinner takes this seriously, it's ruining the site. But for all we know Skinner agrees with them. I have to wonder why he isn't monitoring things more.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,235 posts)brings out the crazies. Most of the crap gets it's start over at NorquistDogLake, and spreads out from there, and you're right, it's ruining the site.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)I'm shocked at the support for Putin and for RT it's an extension of Putin. Those same people poo-poo our media as being biased. Wuuuuutttt? It makes me dizzy.
sheshe2
(83,791 posts)My head spins too.
They make the top of the page daily. I am shocked.
Cha
(297,322 posts)Well, the oppressors are trying to keep me down
Trying to drive me underground
And they think that they have got the battle won
I say forgive them Lord, they know not what they've done
'Cause, as sure as the sun will shine
I'm gonna get my share now, what's mine
And then the harder they come
The harder they fall, one and all
Ooh, the harder they come
Harder they fall, one and all
Behind the Aegis
(53,959 posts)When many of us were protesting and making waves about the horrible anti-gay laws passed recently in Russia, many of the same people were posting RT crap that actually defending the law. "So what if he cut off one of your hands? You have two, right?!" I also find it strange that the same ones who screech about "corporate controlled media, mouthpieces of DC," have no issue with state run media sources!
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)boycotting of the Olympics and bringing up the human rights issues are causing more human rights abuse. The other one that I frequently hear is that we should mind our own business. I think you know specifically who I'm talking about without naming names.
Behind the Aegis
(53,959 posts)Has quite the following too.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)are just USING that for your own benefit and are just as bad!
try to figure that one out.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)They are a sensitive bunch, aren't they?
JI7
(89,252 posts)it's a fucking joke.
but not surprised after seeing the holocaust denial allowed to stand.
Cha
(297,322 posts)they can muster. But, let anyone say anything about their snowjob or greenwad gods-Oooops and it must be swept under the rug.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)They might come after you next.
Cha
(297,322 posts)but, I don't have a perfect record.
Number23
(24,544 posts)on Prosense. I alerted one doing the same old lame tired stupid BS about her being a paid shill and one of the leave it alones just typed "shrug."
The hypocrisy from folks around here is astonishing. I have a few fans that absolutely refuse to leave me alone no matter how many times I request it. And yet, someone told me that demanding that I stop being stalked was ME being the "nasty" one. And these same folks turn miraculously deaf, dumb and mute when one of their friends does the same thing.
I hear the Looney Toons theme song every time I see a post from that person. Words cannot describe how "special" that person is. But in spite of that, I don't have a problem with her asking someone to leave her alone and think anyone that would refuse to do so is even more "special" than she is.
i have to laugh at that "special one".i think i have seen a few others ask her to leave them alone also. mostly because responses never really have anything to do with what is being discussed. they just bring up some random crap from somewhere else .
Whisp
(24,096 posts)and in about the third sentence my head flops down on the keyboard and hits the zzzzzZZZZZzzzzz key. Then my dog has to wake me up: Baba, time to go upstairs, no?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I've seen some horrible stuff written about prosense that stands. It's also pretty much the same people defending the holocaust denial. Good thing prosense seems like one tough person who knows how to consider the source of those attacks and lets them roll away.
Behind the Aegis
(53,959 posts)Then, I found: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024661448
It seems it never ends. They are also the same people that claim to care about anti-Semitism, when convenient to their cause.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)how long the denier was allowed to post here before the administrators saw the light.
Behind the Aegis
(53,959 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)I'm not usually inclined to hide things unless there is a blatant attack on another member.
This doesn't rise even close to that level, even if I don't agree with Whisp most of the time.
It's called an opinion, and I can live with ones I don't agree with.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I see nothing offensive about it. If I'd been on that jury I would have told the alerter to "take a hike".
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)What an awful hide.
Obama get's shat upon daily at this allegedly Democratic website.
But for damn sure, don't mock or deride a libertarian opinion writer or his fugitive "source".
Sid
sheshe2
(83,791 posts)And yes~
blackspade
(10,056 posts)We are getting into "a noun, a verb, and Snowden" territory.
You undermine your very real point about Putin annexing Crimea in violation of international law by bringing Snowden into this.
It's irrelevant and needlessly inflammatory.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)There's more to international relations than Snowden and the NSA.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Watching the 5 or 6 people that always cry about this place is so amusing, especially when they don't get their way and pretend it is DUs fault. Then to watch them call out Skinner...
Tasteless but totally expected.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)It's 5-6 at any given time, but there's a larger group that rotates in/out
at least back in the day it was just the people who couldn't bear being oppressed by the 'unrec' button
functioning_cog
(294 posts)ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)Such hatred for President Obama..
Such hatred for the Democratic Party...
Such hatred for the United States...
That they cheer when a foreign country which did nothing but to throw off a corrupt dictator is invaded - because America is against it.
It's a sad, dark, sick, place these people are living in.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Thank you for saying this. I totally agree with you.
Cha
(297,322 posts)ignorance.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)The behavior is too troll-like for that.
PoliticalPothead
(220 posts)our government engages in. Then they have the gall to tell those of us who criticize military intervention that we "hate America."
It's that old "you're either with us or against us" mentality, and THAT is a sad, dark, sick place to be living in.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)PoliticalPothead
(220 posts)That includes Russian intervention in Crimea.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)This has been my issue with the whole Crimea situation from the beginning.
There was no legal justification for the Russians to leave their bases in the first place.
There were no 'Russian citizens' to protect.
This is a naked annexation of the Crimea.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)while I'm showering.
nasty business