These photos contain tens of thousands of Muscovites.

[Gravitycollapse]

Just a few weeks ago I was in a protest which contained roughly 2000 people and it was only a small fraction the size of the group just in one of these photos.

Anyone who argues these Moscow protests only contained 2000 people is a liar.

[geek tragedy]

1. I'm sure they'll come armed with an article from rt.com saying it was 55 people

who were actually tourists from Finland.

[Gravitycollapse]

4. The problem with Russia Today is that it provides good coverage of stories...

unrelated to the Russian state. So it gives the fraudulent appearance of objectiveness when in actuality any story relating to the Russian state has to be positive.

[geek tragedy]

5. effective propagandists don't lie 24/7

salting the gold mine is an old trick

[msongs]

2. maybe most of them have been whisked away to camps in siberia by now nt

[William769]

3. No argument from me.

[Cha]

6. Wow! Thanks for the Pics, Gc.. I see the Ukrainian Flag there..

[alittlelark]

7. KnR... Thank You for this !!

[NuclearDem]

8. I swear it's the fucking Twilight Zone here.

A fascist homophobic imperialist asshole comes to power in a stolen election and prepares to invade another country on trumped up pretenses, and people on DU are excusing it.

This shit would NOT have flown here in 2002.

[newthinking]

9. How dare you talk like that of the new Government of Ukraine!

Seriously, at first I thought that was who you were talking about.

Because other than the "invading another country" that fits him as well. Instead of invading he used far right fascists (and continues to use them to "restore order throughout Ukraine - Surprise! Since Svoboda and Right Sector are in charge of national defense and security).

The disconnect with folks is truly amazing.
And before someone tries to stereotype, I am not in favor of everything Putin is doing and I prefer that Crimea stay part of Ukraine.

But I will be damned if I am going to close my eyes and ignore the facts that have the other half of the country terrified simply because our media outlets refuse to provide the full story. It is a "liberal thing" to try and understand all facets, and the reality is there is no white hat/ black hat thing going on, despite the propaganda that is fomenting 9/11 type "cold war" ferver in our people.

[Gravitycollapse]

10. Are you saying that justifies the Russian military incursion?

[newthinking]

11. No, do I have to? I understand how the events came to be though

And while I do empathize with the people of Ukraine wanting to get corrupt officials out, and thus the original agenda of Maidan, I recognize that they made serious mistakes. By allowing far right groups to "do the dirty work", they compromised their moral authority and seriously deepened the division in the country.

The way things came about it set the country on the way to civil war. And in fact even though the media is not mentioning the word, that is essentially what is forming in some eastern cities. They have already created their own militias and groups to oppose Kiev. Regardless what you or I think of Putin's intentions, If Russia were to pull out of Crimea tomorrow, it would simply unleash civil war. Crimea was preparing for a fight before Russia left their bases.

There is a lot else going on that is not in our media. Odessa is posturing and not accepting the new government either.

I have formulated the opinion, I believe well founded, that the current government would be much more aggressive if they could get away with it. I mean you just don't put people from groups like Right Sector and Svoboda in charge of your military and securing the country ("Patriots of Ukraine" are recruiting and traveling throughout the country to quell dissent, Patriot of Ukraine is a collation of Neo Nazis. However you will not see this in our media.)

[Gravitycollapse]

12. What utter bullshit. Russia is fomenting unrest in order to justify retaining Crimea.

I support Crimea as an autonomous region and if they want to knowingly join the Russian Federation, that is their prerogative. But there is absolutely no way of knowing now if any of the decisions of that region are being made independent of the will of the Russian state. There are no neutral observers and the press is being beaten up, kidnapped by police and deported.

And, regardless of the festering of the right-wing within the new Ukrainian leadership, the coup was their own and immensely popular. They have the right as a nation to determine their future even if that means picking the wrong leaders who are going to fuck everything up. Just as it was and continues to be the right of Americans do run this country into the ground with our own right-wing leaders.

So don't feed me that bullshit line that Russia is keeping everything together. This is exactly what Putin wanted. The more violence that grows in the Ukraine, the more justified he looks to the idiots of the world.

[uponit7771]

14. Not utter bullshit, the far right in Ukraine are some of worst anti Jewish people Ive EVER heard!!

I thought that shit ended in the 50s or something but this guy from the parliment was going on about how they wanted to fight the Jews and how they would put on Ukrainian close to go out and start fights with Russians to 'show' ukrainian pride.

Stupid shit, and this was on fuckin NPR last week!!!

...and if they wanted something "civil"" they would've impeached the current leader instead of just calling him corrupt and running him out of town.

Now we're support coupes!?!?!

John McCain was there... that's the cherry on top.... I know some stupid shit would go down after that

[Bluenorthwest]

16. Do you know what 'always' means? Crimea had a majority of Muslim Tatars until

the Soviet ethnic cleansing toward the end of WW2. In one of the swiftest mass depopulations in the history of the planet, the Tatars were put on trains and removed to distant Central Asian areas. You say 'The majority has always watched Russian tv and closely identified with Russia' but that has only been true since the forced removal of the indigenous majority about 70 years ago. The Crimean Tatars were not allowed to return at all until the 1980's, and there has never been a formal invitation to repatriate, much less any compensation for the loss of territory, lives and culture that resulted from the deportation of about a quarter of a million people to create that 'Always Russian Majority'.
Funny that you'd not know this, being an expert on local history.

[newthinking]

18. So then are you advocating to force those there now out? You sound like you hate Russians in general

I would think about it a little, since this is a "liberal" site, why is it you seem to be having such a hard time having some empathy for innocent civilians caught in an awful situation (empathy does not mean you have to agree with everything).

And while the history is important (go a little further back and the Ottoman empire threw the Russians out as well, so your "history" appears a little one sided), this conflict is not the place to resolve that.

[uponit7771]

13. Sounds EXACTLY like what the GOP did with the Tea Party but on Steroids! I heard one of the Ukraine

... parliament far right talk about Jews on NPR... I was blown away with what this guy was allowed to get away with!!

[newthinking]

17. Exactly. Which is why it is so interesting to see people here not paying more attention to

the reality of how the group came to power.

-International Republican institute and other "NGO"s fomenting false information, supporting radical right wing groups (and lesser right wing of course) and putting Billions of dollars in the effort

Neocons Have Weathered the Storm (and are back in force)
https://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/03/14-9

- Kagen's wife (Project for a New American Century) is firmly in the middle of things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland

- Alliances made with Neo Nazi groups (likely in return for the cabinet level positions they now have in government)

- The overthrow is firmly on the back of the Neo-Nazi's, who systematically threaten Party of regions officials and their families throughout much of Ukraine with violence, burn down offices, attempt to outlaw opposition parties, escelate the violence at maidan, ignore the agreement, then once the opposition is away from their offices in fear, they take the partliment buildings with the blessing of all.

- New government looks more like a far right "Tea Party" and does not represent the Ukrainian people in general

How the far-right took top posts in Ukraine's power vacuum
http://www.channel4.com/news/svoboda-ministers-ukraine-new-government-far-right