Time to Come Home, Edward Snowden, and Stop Hiding Behind a Corrupt Regime

[DonViejo]

Michael Daly

The NSA whistleblower should face the music in America, and while he’s at it, he could criticize the tactics of the ex-KGB thug who’s offered him asylum.

Time to come home, Edward Snowden. Time to announce that you would rather face an American prison than endorse Putin’s thuggery with your continued presence in Russia.

Time to end your silence about the seizure of Crimea and the troops massing at the border with eastern Ukraine. Time to cease undercutting your own cause with the hypocrisy of speaking about Internet security even as you abet international piracy.

You appeared via video at the South by Southwest conference with the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution green screened behind you. But you did so while enjoying the protection of a KGB thug turned would-be czar.

more
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/16/time-to-come-home-edward-snowden-and-stop-hiding-behind-a-corrupt-regime.html

[BeyondGeography]

1. Of course...And, as a practical matter

aligning himself with a sworn opponent of the West is not a leverage booster for him.

[Igel]

8. For many it's both a lever and a fulcrum big enough to move the Earth. n/t

[ohheckyeah]

2. He'd have to be stupid to come back

to the US. Whatever he is or isn't, I don't think stupid is it.

[arely staircase]

6. he doesn't want to live in a country that spies on its citizens

so he is in Russia.

[BeyondGeography]

10. Viktor Shenderovich just laughed

[Mojorabbit]

31. He would be an idiot to come home at this time.

He does not have to try and influence the world on his own to make the author happy. He has done his part. He doesn't have to be responsible for Russian politics on top of everything else. The article is one of the most ridiculous I have seen on the subject.

[ohheckyeah]

49. True that. n/t

[Scuba]

110. +1

[Titonwan]

125. Exactly. n/t

[G_j]

126. agreed nt

[cui bono]

135. Well said. Plus he is stuck in Russia because the US pulled his passport, not by his own choice. nt

[idendoit]

143. He chose to fly there.

[cui bono]

146. and....?

I go through lots of places on my way somewhere else. I'm not usually forced to stay there due to my govt pulling my passport.

[idendoit]

147. Do you do so as a thief, liar and traitor?

[cui bono]

148. Possibly. How does that change anything?

[idendoit]

149. Well, then the US government is well within the law...

...to revoke your travel privileges.

[cui bono]

150. You're not proving me wrong here. What is your point?

I said he didn't choose to stay in Russia, the US govt revoked his passport. What exactly are you disagreeing with? Or are you trying to agree? I have no idea what you are trying to say.

[idendoit]

152. He's stuck in Russia because he chose to flee there.

The point being that, he's stuck there not because of what the government did but because of what he did. Catching on yet?

[cui bono]

156. No, he is stuck in Russia because the US govt revoked his passport.

That is exactly why he is stuck there. He was seeking asylum elsewhere but can no longer travel out of Russia due to having had his passport revoked by the US govt. Had they not done so, he could have gotten asylum and traveled to another country. Therefore, he is stuck in Russia because the US govt revoked his passport, not because he fled there. Because if his passport hadn't been revoked he could've left, even though he traveled there. To call it fleeing there is disingenuous as he had never planned on staying there. He originally fled to Hong Kong.

I love how it's always the lost souls who have to add that smarmy little retort to try to make themselves right about something. That's not how it works. If you make a valid point you don't actually need to do that.

[idendoit]

159. Your not proving me wrong here. What's your point?

[cui bono]

164. I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was dealing with a jr. high school kid.

My bad.

[idendoit]

185. I agree, it must be quite the burden.

[Capt. Obvious]

182. AND

does he dump strippers and have boxes in his garage?

More or less.

Passport revoked.

[idendoit]

183. Capt. Obtuse? Quo vadis?

[Capt. Obvious]

184. Cui hit the nail on the head

[ohheckyeah]

50. No, he doesn't want to disappear

in the US and never see the light of day again.

[arely staircase]

58. he and putin will teach us to love the motherland

[ohheckyeah]

84. But for most, love of the motherland

will never exceed love of the homeland. Amazing how much motherland and homeland sound alike, isn't it?

[Art_from_Ark]

170. We didn't used to be "homeland"

Somehow, that word crept into the American lexicon during the previous administration.

[ohheckyeah]

172. Yes, and I find it offensive.

I couldn't believe Bush was able to float that one by the American people.

[cui bono]

134. He is in Russia because the US pulled his passport. Not by his own choice. n/t

[MADem]

151. He can come home on the passport he's holding. He just can't go touring. nt

[cui bono]

157. He doesn't want to come home. n/t

[MADem]

158. Really? For someone who doesn't want to come home, he's doing a lot of whining.

And what's up with that Ben Wizner who tried to work a deal and said he'd trade the secrets he had for a ticket home? Doesn't sound to me like someone who "doesn't want to come home."

[cui bono]

165. Go complain to him about it. Not sure why you are being so combative with me.

If he wanted to come home he could according to you. He's not coming home. Therefore it seems he does not want to come home. You want to argue about it take it up with him, I can't read his mind and I don't really care about arguing something that is speculation and that doesn't really matter much.

All I originally said was he was not in Russia by his own choice. He is there because his passport was revoked. Then you showed up to pick a fight apparently. I don't know why.

[MADem]

166. Combative? All I'm doing is correcting your misapprehension.

He does want to come home, he's willing to give back what he stole to do it, so his lawyer said, anyway.

He's in Russia by his own choice. He chose to keep running. He can travel on the passport he still has in his possession--back to the US.

[cui bono]

167. You're probably right that if the conditions were right he would come home. But since you say he

can come home now, I would say he doesn't want to under the circumstances. I can understand that completely.

As to being in Russia, no, he is there because the US revoked his passport. Coming home isn't really an option under the current climate of escalated whistle blower prosecutions. However, had the US govt not revoked his passport he would probably be in Ecuador by now.

[MADem]

171. Cuba wasn't going to touch him with a ten foot pole, and all roads went through Havana.

The ones that didn't go through, say, NYC or Montreal, anyway.

With or without a passport, Cuba wasn't going to let him pass go, of that, I'm fairly certain.

And Ecuador revoked that travel permission almost immediately--that was Assange's handiwork, and they fired the diplomat who allowed himself to be conned into that mess. See: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130628/15243323664/ecuador-pulls-ed-snowdens-travel-papers-because-julian-assange-thinks-hes-charge.shtml

President Rafael Correa halted an effort to help Snowden leave Russia amid concern Assange was usurping the role of the Ecuadoran government, according to leaked diplomatic correspondence published on Friday.

Amid signs Quito was cooling with Snowden and irritated with Assange, Correa declared invalid a temporary travel document which could have helped extract Snowden from his reported location in Moscow.

Correa declared that the safe conduct pass issued by Ecuador's London consul – in collaboration with Assange – was unauthorised, after other Ecuadorean diplomats privately said the WikiLeaks founder could be perceived as "running the show".

[Incitatus]

155. Not exactly.

He doesn't want the Bradley Manning treatment for exposing the crimes of the NSA. So he doesn't live here.

[L0oniX]

13. He should be a man and return for the torture and prison rape.

Really got to wonder about the intelligence of those that are calling for him to return.

[brush]

35. So let him stay. The hypocrisy of him being in Russia is deafening

Gays being beaten up on the streets, Crimea being invaded, he has to come out every few weeks and kiss Putin's . . . er ah, extol Putin's human rights bona fides — sounds like quite a little hell he's gotten himself into.

He's a defector. Did he expect heaven?

[L0oniX]

68. So I take it you would rather not know about what he has revealed about the NSA.

[brush]

117. I'm glad he revealed the NSA's domestic spying . . .

Last edited Mon Mar 17, 2014, 06:29 PM - Edit history (1)

which goes way past 4th Amendment provisions our Constitution guarantees, and for that he is a legitimate whistle blower and I commend him.

As for revealing the intricacies of his own country's international covert operations, he crossed the line into possible sedition, IMO.

That's the dichotomy in the Snowden case that most Eddie fans won't acknowledge — the domestic v the international revelations.

That's why I say let him stay in Russia. He made his choice to cough up details about international covert operations. Unwisely IMO but what do you expect from a somewhat self-important, naive and immature 29-year-old who got in too deeply into international matters. He should have thought the second part of the issue through more thoroughly.

He didn't.

He defected.

Now he has to deal with his decision.

[treestar]

64. BS

that is simply not the case.

[Cha]

42. Yeah, Russia is much for someone who doesn't want to live

in a country that spies on its citizens.

And, yeah.. he's not about to take responsibility for his actions.

[kelliekat44]

132. Or to stay. nt

[TwilightGardener]

3. As long as he has an audience in the US for his diatribes, he will have a place

and a purpose in Russia. When his stolen documents are no longer forthcoming or fruitful, or interest in him flags over here, he's toast. He knows this, he'll try to get asylum elsewhere (Brazil? Some country with little to lose in straining ties with the US), or cut a deal to come back to the US.

[msanthrope]

4. He's a coward. nt

[Cha]

44. Yeah, he is a cut and run coward.. now hiding behind Putin.. spewing

anti-americanism from Russia with hate.

[avebury]

114. BS. He is trying not to get kicked out.

He is a whistle blower who has seen how whistle blowers are treated in this country. Does he prefer to be in Russia ? I am guessing not but he was not able to make it to South America. He did the best he could to stay out of American hands where Whistle Blowers get prison time and actual criminals (Government, Wall Street, for example) walk free. I doubt that he could even get a fair trial in this country. He was smart enough to get out of the US before he blew the whistle. He should have been a tad smarter to make sure the made it to a decent country to take refuge in prior to blowing the whistle. If he had made it to someplace in South America you would not hear anywhere near the vehemence that you are hearing because he ended up in Russia.

[Cha]

115. Yes, a coward hiding behind Putin..

BuzzFeed Benny ✔ @bennyjohnson
Follow
Snowden condemning unwanted and illegal government interference in peoples lives from Russia
6:42 AM - 10 Mar 2014 104 Retweets 41 favorites •Reply
•Retweet
•Favorite

[Zorra]

5. Teh stupid, it hurts.

[randome]

7. The silence of the snow.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[Whisp]

19. There's no business like Snow business.

[randome]

37. When it rains, it snows.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[Whisp]

43. Snow me da money.

[randome]

105. Snow today, gone tomorrow.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[Cha]

45. Snow business I know..

la la la


BuzzFeed Benny Heavy check mark @bennyjohnson
Follow
Snowden condemning unwanted and illegal government interference in peoples lives from Russia

6:42 AM - 10 Mar 2014

104 Retweets 41 favorites

[Voice for Peace]

52. DUZY & sub-thread duzy

!!

[davidpdx]

116. Good one

[xchrom]

9. AND TURN YOUR SELF IN TO ANOTHER CORRUPT GOVERNMENT, GODDAMN IT!11

'corruption' and governments create extremely low bars.

[L0oniX]

11. Yes ...you'd think he would rather be in a country that lies itself into a war...

and then lets the war criminals go free. What's not to like?

[Thinkingabout]

26. Sounds like you are describing Russia, they have lied in many wars and have war

Criminals and criminals with crimes against their own people.

[randome]

38. Wow. That was almost too easy, you know?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[LittleBlue]

51. Replace the word "Russia" from your statement with a blank

and I'd bet you most of DU fills in that blank with the United States.

You all are arguing about to which war criminals Snowden should surrender himself.

[MattSh]

12. Sad that an article like this would be taken seriously

especially here at DU.

[DonViejo]

15. Why not? Your comments are to be taken seriously,

aren't they? Some DU'ers are Snowden supporters, others are not, I doubt the sides will ever agree on much.

[Maedhros]

21. Correction: Some DU'ers are democracy supporters, others are surveillance state supporters.

And no, we will not agree on much.

[DonViejo]

22. Sorry, I'm not interested in guessing the motivation behind what this DU'er or

that DU'er believes or why they believe it.

[oldhippie]

29. That's OK, plenty of other people are. nt

nt

[Maedhros]

32. Bullshit. You defined posters' motivation as supporting Snowden (or not).

The fundamental issue is the long-term abuse of the Constitution by the NSA and the fundamental negative effect of the NSA's activities on the health of our democracy.

A large number of DU posters are very concerned with the NSA's activities, while a small number of DU posters insist on making the issue about Snowden.

So it appears that you are indeed not interested in "guessing" the motivation behind posters' beliefs. You are interested in defining what that motivation might be, for your own purposes.

[DonViejo]

65. Sorry you disagree with me but,

Snowden supporters (my term) ARE "DU posters...very concerned with the NSA's activities." Some members of DU do not support Snowden; some "insist on making the issue about Snowden" while other non supporters, because of the strategy he has used since the start of his odyssey. Like it or not Maedhros, Snowden and concern over the NSA's activities, are not mutually exclusive; Snowden (and Greenwald to some extent) are seen by many as the leaders/spokesmen of folk concerned about the NSA's activities.

So it appears you indeed do not know what you are talking about when you start with your psycho-babble filled analysis of folk you don't know, and have never spoken with before. As I wrote earlier, I don't get into guessing games about motivation; you, on the other hand, apparently do. Enjoy!.

Adios

[Cha]

46. No, it's not sad at all.. What's "sad" is Snowden's Fucking Hypocrisy.

[baldguy]

55. You can say that when every other pro-Snowden post on DU

comes directly from Rand Paul's propaganda feed?

[Tarheel_Dem]

100. They've been at it for awhile now. They're obsessed with this site.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002243976

"Another well-known Libertarian, who plows these fields regularly and diligently, is Glenn Greenwald, associated with the Cato Institute. The day after the November 2010 election, Glenn Greenwald addressed Paulites in Wisconsin to discuss the possibility of splitting progressive voters away from the Democrats. Greenwald’s strategy then included Libertarian support for Citizens United, Bradley Manning, and the Tea Party, as well as attacks on Obama, in the hopes that the Democrats would lose still more seats in 2012..."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125179195

"Take a look on Democratic Underground

They have the gov't paid trolls out, trying to limit the outrage & rebellion on there.

If that is the reaction of hard core Dems to the news stories on the NSA, I want to stoke up some more of it.

Lots of traffic on DU.

It's the most popular Dem internet site, except for Huffy Po - where everything meaningful gets censored".

http://www.dailypaul.com/288556/clapper-and-feinstein-get-caught-lying-big-time#comment-3103138

Sadly, they don't even have to pretend anymore, and even when they do, you can spot 'em a mile off.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Time for Ed to come home and take up spying on the TPP negotiations, drones, and

other secrets our "transparent" government doesn't allow the citizens the know about.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

16. On what moral or honorable ground does our own nation stand? nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Whatever (alleged) moral or honorable grounds were drowned in the Gulf of Tonkin.

[randome]

40. Or the 'honorable ground' in Ukraine?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[reformist2]

18. What a joke. The neo-cons are the ones in the pit, they need to stop digging themselves deeper.

[marions ghost]

20. Thanx for the laugh

[MNBrewer]

23. No corruption here! Nope, not in the U.S. of A.!

[LittleBlue]

24. Yeah, he should totally do that

Because he needs to "man up" and spend the rest of his natural life in solitary confinement.

Daily Beast

[seveneyes]

25. Because prison life is so much better

Screw that idea. Maybe this author would like to sit like Buddha in a 10 foot cell for life. Prison should only exist for people that harm innocents.

[bvar22]

27. LOL.

Last edited Mon Mar 17, 2014, 02:41 PM - Edit history (2)

Back before 1776,
the conservative Royalists believed that the "insurgents" should turn themselves over to The Crown for judgement.
They also called them "cowards" because they ran away to fight another day.
They believed the early insurgents should just line up and let the "Government" shoot them down.

I think the early American insurgents were SMART.
Snowden has proved he is SMART too, and those calling him a coward because he won't stand still and let the Forces that support the NSA pass "judgement" on him are laughable and transparent.

Chelsea Manning (and a multitude of other Whistle Blowers) have already showed The WORLD what our "authorities" will do to people who rock their boat and embarrass them in public.

General Clapper showed the World who is really running the show here in the USA
when he LIED under Oath to the Senate Oversight,.... and walked away laughing.

Yeah.
Snowden should turn himself over to the authorities!


Keep running, Eddie!

*Rampant Government Secrecy and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Persecution of Whistle Blowers and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Government surveillance of the citizenry and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Secret Laws and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Secret Courts and Democracy can not-co-exist.

*Our Democracy depends on an informed electorate.

You either believe in Democracy,
or you don't.
It IS that simple.

[MannyGoldstein]

127. +1000 nt

[Titonwan]

128. I can't recall the poster who said this

but it's funny--

"I was in a coal mine once and there was this narcissistic little canary.

Little bird was all like "look at me, I can't breathe! You're all going to die if you don't get to fresh air!"

It was all about him. We told him to shut up.

Right before we passed out."

Quite apt, if you ask me.

[Thinkingabout]

28. He could return to the US and we would have the cost of a trial and his imprisonment or

He could remain in Russia and when he tries his crimes or he becomes useless to them then they will take action. Our hands would be clean and we could save the cost of prosecution and sentence.

[jsr]

30. Trust Us

[Cha]

47. Or trust.. "How Vladimir Putin and his Homophobic Henchmen are Brainwashing the Russian People"..

•All gay people are paedophiles regardless of age, even 13 years old. They present a threat to all children.
•HIV/AIDS is spread by the LGBT population.
•Gays are responsible for the depopulation of Russia and low birth rates, not the wide spread social problems such as alcoholism/drugs/poverty/unemployment.
•One can become gay by observing gay behavior.

These are the four key tenets of the homophobic creed being propagated across Russia by Vladimir Putin and his cronies. To the rest of the world, or at least the vast majority, these precepts are ludicrous, even scandalous. But in Russia, as demonstrated by recent opinion polls, millions of people believe they are true, so pervasive and insidious is the influence of Putin's propaganda machine.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russia-homophobia-lgbt-gay-rights-nazis-vladimir-514311

[backscatter712]

33. Getting a trial at home worked so well for Chelsea Manning! n/t

[idendoit]

142. That's because Manning is a military whistle blower.

She stayed to face the consequences of her actions. She deserves our thanks. Snowden is a thief, liar and traitor.

[dgauss]

34. If Snowden had stated that the reason he left the US was

that he could never live in a country that would seize Crimea, this article would be slightly less ridiculous.

[Luminous Animal]

36. Yes and all those who seek asylum to the U.S. should criticize the U.S. government.

What a stupid article.

[DirkGently]

39. Hmmm. Russia is bad, so Snowden must be wrong.

GREAT fucking logic. Just really ... great.

[stevenleser]

56. If that was the logic, you would be right. But it's not.

He is against the idea of a surveillance state, so he set up shop in a country that is even more of a surveillance state.

He is against a government that behaves criminally, so he set up shop in a country that just engaged in the war crime of an unprovoked aggression culminating now in the permanent annexation of another country's territory.

[ohheckyeah]

72. Oh BS....

he didn't set up shop, he took asylum where he could.

[VanillaRhapsody]

93. and the irony oozes all over the idea of the one he chose...

[ohheckyeah]

96. Um, he didn't have any choice...

nobody else had the guts to stand up to the US and take him. Remember?

[VanillaRhapsody]

137. Yeah right....I forgot!!!!!

Putin is Snowden's hero!

[ohheckyeah]

138. How old are you? n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

139. How old are you?

As if....

[DirkGently]

131. Oh, but it IS the logic. And the many-th bad faith one at that.

You will recall the arguments that

- The NSA was doing nothing wrong, because something something FISA Courts IT'S ALL LEGAL!

- Nothing to hide; nothing to fear, etc.

- Something something, Snowden has boxes in his garage and a pole-dancing girlfriend

And now, suddenly the problem with Russia is what a "surveillance state" it is? That's a bit of shoehorning, wouldn't you say?

Putin's an authoritarian, so surveillance is probably among his many bad policies, but he's hardly made news for collecting metadata or constructing false chains of evidence so the police can prosecute citizens based on warrantless spying, has he?

The overall premise that Snowden is endorsing Russia by taking refuge there is likewise specious. We muscled every vaguely democratic country in the world -- save perhaps the UK, which apparently has its own illegal spying ops to protect -- into shunning the guy.

And of course, the underlying message that somehow repeatedly attempting to fling Snowden under various buses protects Obama's precious rep somehow is equally nonsensical. He's not going to be President forever, so if there's something -- like illegal mass spying on Americans -- that we don't like with a Republican executive, it's far past time to not like it under a Democrat.

[Cha]

41. "..But you did so while enjoying the protection of a KGB thug turned would-be czar."..

Something a lot of Snow fans would like to just pretend isn't happening..

"Yet the only time you even referred to your host country was when you suggested that the NSA amasses so much data that it overlooked a Russian warning about the elder of the brothers alleged to have bombed the Boston marathon."

“We might have caught them,” you told the SXSW audience.

At the very least, you might have noted that the NSA also missed Putin’s decision to send those first masked and unidentified soldiers into Crimea."

So pipsqueak is still pimping for Russia.. And, someone was scratching his head at "why so much Snowden hate?".. I do hate world class hypocrisy that fairly oozes from this libertarian asshole with a hearty sized god-complex.

snip//

"Among the questions tweeted to you at the conference was, "What are you doing in Russia now that the Crimea situation is escalating?"

But the folks running the event did not include it with the ones actually posed to you. You were instead asked questions such as, “What steps can an average person take now to ensure a more secure digital experience?”

You offered some sensible advice, then said, “You’ll be much safer.”

How safe do you think the Ukrainians are feeling?"

Yeah, Snowden has sooo much to say.. but not a gd peep about Russia's aggression.. that would have been rich if that question would have tweeted through.. Snowden would be like b b b b b b I dunno know

Mahalo Don.. Good Find!

[Thinkingabout]

59. I am not so sure I would have a warm cizy feeling living in Russia. At one time

I had hope things was changed in Russia but not now. For those watching the interview, do you think he was able to speak freely or was his words being listened by authorities in Russia. If he was speaking freely then it continues to show he has been doing lots of work for Russia's benefit.

[Cha]

60. Snowden can speak as freely as he wants to about BAD USA while not saying a Peep

about Russia.

[Thinkingabout]

61. Just what I thought, so it goes to my thoughts in the past, if he returns to the US we

Will be obligated to persecute him for the crimes and imprison him if found guilty all at the cost of the US. If he continues to hang out in Russia it does not cost the US.

[ohheckyeah]

73. Seriously?

He can't say a peep about Russia as long as it's the only place he can get asylum.

[Cha]

78. Such a fucking hypocrite.

[ohheckyeah]

82. Why yes, yes you are. n/t

[ohheckyeah]

71. Oh good grief...

he's not going to criticize the only country in which he can get asylum. Plus, it's not HIS country to change, it is merely his prison.

[Cha]

77. That's right.. he's going to keep bitchin' about the USA while hypocritically hiding out in Russia.

[ohheckyeah]

80. What a ridiculous

comment.

And you can keep hypocritically bitching about Snowden while hiding behind a keyboard, never having to make a hard decision about exposing government corruption and whether or not to face being disappeared in the US. At least he tried to warn us. Russia isn't his to change, it's only his place of asylum. I'm sure you're such a touch guy you would have no thought for your own life and future.

[Cha]

48. I see Snowden fans would rather see him stay in Russia with these Assholes..

"How Vladimir Putin and his Homophobic Henchmen are Brainwashing the Russian People"..

•All gay people are paedophiles regardless of age, even 13 years old. They present a threat to all children.
•HIV/AIDS is spread by the LGBT population.
•Gays are responsible for the depopulation of Russia and low birth rates, not the wide spread social problems such as alcoholism/drugs/poverty/unemployment.
•One can become gay by observing gay behavior.

These are the four key tenets of the homophobic creed being propagated across Russia by Vladimir Putin and his cronies. To the rest of the world, or at least the vast majority, these precepts are ludicrous, even scandalous. But in Russia, as demonstrated by recent opinion polls, millions of people believe they are true, so pervasive and insidious is the influence of Putin's propaganda machine.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russia-homophobia-lgbt-gay-rights-nazis-vladimir-514311

Fine.. the little chickenshit can just stay there.

[ohheckyeah]

75. You know what...

I support equality and everything that entails but it's not the only important issue in the world.

[Cha]

79. It's the only important isssue to those who are under oppression and I stand with them.

[ohheckyeah]

81. No, you sit behind a keyboard for them.

I'm a woman but women's issues aren't the only ones important to me.

Snowden stood against NSA spying against all of us and to me that's pretty damn impressive and important. He's paying the price being stuck in Russia.

[Cha]

88. I stand with LGBT Rights all over the World.

[Democracyinkind]

97. You post on DU, presumably while sitting.

Riding a high horse is also not "standing up".

[Cha]

99. How pathetic to think Standing With LGBT All Over the World is somehow on a "high horse".

[Democracyinkind]

103. How pathetic to think that posting on DU is standing with LGBT worldwide. nt

[Cha]

104. Well while you go around spreading your ignorance the rest of us will Stand up for LGBT.

[Democracyinkind]

108. High high horse...

You keep on pissing on Snowden and proclaiming it "standing up for LGBT". I bet I'm not the only LGBT to find that offensive.

[Cha]

112. Rights For All Our LGBT Family All Over The World~

[Democracyinkind]

113. On that we agree. nt

[Autumn]

53. Stay where you are, unless you want to be locked up

and have the key thrown away. And don't expect a fair trial cause odds are good you won't fucking get one.

Fuck Michael Daly

[840high]

63. ....

[baldguy]

54. .

[Tarheel_Dem]

57. Well, I'm glad someone finally said it. It's a shame it wasn't Glenn Greenwald.

[Cha]

83. What? That's Snowden's a fucking hypocritical chickenshit?..

in so many words?

[Tarheel_Dem]

89. Many people think Snowie wound up in Russia by accident, I never did.

[Cha]

90. Yeah, maybe that's why they're trying to cover up his

hypocrisy at all costs.


BuzzFeed Benny ✔ @bennyjohnson
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Snowden condemning unwanted and illegal government interference in peoples lives from Russia
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[Tarheel_Dem]

92. Bill Maher says everytime he opens his mouth, he says something stupid.

The icing on the cake was when he called Putin a champion of human rights.

[Cha]

94. I do believe Maher said ".. something fucking stupid"..

Called Putin that right out of the gate.. this blogger would disagree..



Travel Guide To Moscow

"First of all, Russia has become very corrupt throughout the last few years. Vladimir Putin has now been in office for twelve years and over those twelve years he has eliminated most elections, monopolized major media, and destroyed the democratic political system. Everyday people are brutally arrested for starting and participating in anti-Putin protests, while some are even detained simply for being nearby. Clearly, Putin’s actions are those of a dictator, and he plans to stay in power as long as possible."

http://sites.psu.edu/egorivanov/2014/01/31/travel-guide-to-moscow/

[Tarheel_Dem]

95. I stand corrected. And looks like Maduro's following close on Putin's heels.

[gulliver]

62. He's going to end up like Jim Bakker.

I don't picture him facing the music to earn respect for his cause. He's going to let his cause suffer by hiding in Russia. And that, in itself, shows what he is made of.

No, I don't see him volunteering to come back. More likely, based on the most recent developments, Putin is just going to rescind Snowden's asylum. Then he will be dragged sobbing from underneath a coffee table and shoved on a plane. Everything Snowden has done to date points to it.

[former9thward]

66. The NSA has activated their trolls in the media.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

69. Putin is doing Obama a favor by granting Snowden asylum

...bringing Snowden back would create a shit storm Obama doesn't need right now.

[Tarheel_Dem]

91. A "shitstorm" from who?

Poll: Most think Edward Snowden should stand trial in U.S.
By Sarah Dutton, Jennifer De Pinto, Anthony Salvanto and Fred Backus
January 22, 2014

National Security Agency (NSA) contractor Edward Snowden leaked information about the secret program that collected the phone and internet records of people in the U.S. and abroad – and his actions are not well-received by the public.

Most Americans – 61 percent - think Snowden should have to stand trial in the United States for his actions. Far fewer – 23 percent - think he should be granted amnesty. Republicans, Democrats, and independents all agree on this as well.

Meanwhile, 31 percent approve of Snowden’s actions, while most, 54 percent, disapprove. Majorities of Republicans, Democrats, and independents disapprove

When asked to come up with a word that describes Edward Snowden, nearly a quarter volunteer either traitor or a similar word that questions his loyalty to his country, while 8 percent say he is “brave” or “courageous” or “a hero”. Just 2 percent volunteered that he is a patriot or patriotic, and another 2 percent say “terrorist”.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-most-think-edward-snowden-should-stand-trial-in-us/

For awhile those numbers were about evenly split. As time goes on, no matter how many fake awards he receives from non-entities, he is increasingly seen as a traitor, and his approval numbers continue to decline. I suspect he becomes associated with Putin in ways he hasn't even begun to ponder.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

129. wow, that's pretty sad

Putin really is doing Obama a favor, first to spare him the shitstorm and now to swing popular opinion against him. My guess is public opinion would be much different if he were somewhere else, which doesn't say much about the public.

[idendoit]

145. What it does say alot about is what an idiot Snowden is.

[Tarheel_Dem]

180. Sounds as if you're of the belief that Snowie wound up there by accident, I've never....

believed that. Which is why I think everytime he goes online to excoriate his home country, while being hosted by a rogue government, only works to the benefit of his new president. RIght or wrong, we'll call it the trouble of unintended consequences. He now looks complicit, and I think that's troubling for the American people.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

181. My comments here were directed at those...

who forgot that they were "for it before they were against it." That is beyond sad, it's pathetic.


This is what I think about the Snowden-Putin relationship.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4685224

[go west young man]

70. Weren't the founding fathers of the United States

considered traitors to England? Real change comes from left field folks...that is how it's done. Can't you guys understand the irony of an American exposing government spying and then having to hide in Russia from the US government who conducts the blanket surveillance?
The world has turned upside down and the only thing your argument is based upon appears to be nationalistic flag waving to your own detriment. He did you a favor and put his existence on the line...while you sit at a computer and call him a coward. He and Chelsea manning will be held up as future American heroes many years from now. That is how history works. Great empires that are used to having it their way always attempt to sweep these kind of characters under the rug but they always emerge as the best the society had to offer.

[Union Scribe]

74. Damn, I just ordered Topsy

by this guy. I hope it isn't littered with shitty writing like that article.

[Douglas Carpenter]

76. Who wouldn't prefer decades in maximum security prison over relative freedom in Russia?

Let's be honest now!! EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US - myself included would cherish being locked up for decades in a high security prison in the United States to being relatively free in Russia - EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US!! Tell me I'm wrong!!

[MADem]

168. He could probably work a deal where he works while he's incarcerated or gets early release if he

helps out the government. That is, if he's actually any good at what he says he can do, and isn't just all talk.

He'd be well supervised, but these things do happen.

Look at the Catch Me If You Can guy! He was sentenced to twelve and got out in less than five.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale

[ucrdem]

169. I wonder about Eddie.

Somehow I don't think he's what we're supposed to think he is.

[MADem]

173. I think he could be either a Falcon-Snowman or a deep cover US agent.

He could also just be a "too clever by half" hubris-laden fool who didn't quite think it through, too.

I don't know...but I wouldn't be atall surprised if his theme song turned out to be "This is Not America!"

The soundtrack of his life?

[ucrdem]

174. Which would make Greenwald the patsy

instead of the other way around. Which, given GG's general ineptitude and total lack of consistency, would not surprise me in the least.

[MADem]

175. A useful tool, most likely.

Or, who knows, maybe a paid cog in the machine, to make "the sale" more believable...since he doesn't have a reputation for personal or professional temperance or rectitude, anyway. Who'd believe that GG would take money (or a soft landing) for playing that kind of role?

The best cons have unlikely layers, though--so one never really knows!

[ucrdem]

176. Ain't that the truth.

On all points!

[on point]

85. Only when he gets a full anc complete pardon from the president. Nothing less

The US is not his friend, and shows no interest in cleaning up its act. Russia may not be great either, but is not after him.

So NO don't come home, unitl the USA offers the REWARD you deserve for being a patriot and hero.

[ucrdem]

86. Sooner or later Vlad will figure out that Eddie is bad feng shui.

Way bad. And back he'll come.

[AzDar]

87. What a fucking joke.

[Democracyinkind]

98. The stupidity of "Eddie loves Russia" is equal to the stupidity

of "protestors love Saddam" bullshit. They blusteringly demand that Snowden mind the company that he keeps but they steadfastely refuse to do the same for themselves.

The argument that Snowden is in Russia because of his love of Putin instead of geopolitical realities is worthy of a High School locker room.

[randome]

106. Yet it is Snowden who extolls the virtues of Russia standing up for human rights.

I understand why some want to see him as a hero (although I don't agree that he is). But it's also very clear that he's a hypocrite.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Sometimes it seems like the only purpose in life is to keep your car from touching another's.[/center][/font][hr]

[Democracyinkind]

107. When you become a whistleblower of his importance, I bet you'll manage not becoming one just fine.

And it's not as if he's constantly harping about the virtues of Russia. He made one unfortunate statement after being granted temporary asylum which is quite understandable since Russia just about saved his life.

You would have a point (and my agreement) if Snowden was on a "Russia is so much better on spying than the US is" campaign, which he is not. He'll have plenty of time to denounce the Russian surveillence state and Putin once he leaves Russia. Demanding that he piss in the face of the one place that granted him temporary asylum while still there is the hight of stupidity and hypocrisy. Any rational being with even the slightest interest in self-preservation wold not do that in his situation.

He did not go to Russia because of their flawlessness, but because they are America's strategic oppononents and therefore welcome his leaks. It's not as if he had much choice. Would you so stringently demand that a Russian whistleblower granted asylum in the US piss in the NSA's face? I think not.

[randome]

109. Fair point.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Sometimes it seems like the only purpose in life is to keep your car from touching another's.[/center][/font][hr]

[Democracyinkind]

111. Thank you.

If Snowden ever gets to leave Russia (something that I do expect to happen when enough time has passed) and he reasserts the ridiculous notion that the Russian surveillance state is any better than ours, I'll be willing to concede the point about him being a lousy hypocrite.

As far as surveillance states go, I'd still prefer the American version, all other things being equal.

[Adrahil]

121. When faced with the choice of facing the music, or fleeing to a far worse offender and saving his

hide, he bravely turn around and fled. Oh yeah, and spilled his guts about a variety of perfectly legitimate foreign intelligence operations too. Screw him.

[Democracyinkind]

122. Actually, he fled before the music started.

And "legitimate" is in the eye of the beholder. I have worked in intel-related fields and see the need for some foreign operations. Most of what Snowden has revealed does not strike me as legitimate or necessary operations, even if they may be nominally legal.

I am not the only one that thinks that our intel services do - to a great extent - not work in the interest of the american populace but only for a very small and select subset of them. As long as that is true I wil cheer any reasonable effort at exposing them. I only feel that obligation towards services that act in my name, so I feel no need to add a general caveat that also calls out ALL other intel services. The other country that I am a citizen of manages quite well without all of these operations.

[Adrahil]

120. Oh yeah?

"These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations carried out by the powerful rather than the powerless. By refusing to compromise their principles in the face of intimidation, they have earned the respect of the world. It is my intention to travel to each of these countries to extend my personal thanks to their people and leaders."

[Democracyinkind]

124. In the context of geopolitics, I agree with that quote.

I did not read it as saying that those countries are flawless - it's more a tongue-in-cheek way of saying that those are the countries that aren't afraid of dishing it out to the American empire.

I have no illusions about government repression in those countries, and I'm not convinced that Snowden entertains such. As stated in the other subthread, these things will be clarified at the point when he is no longer dependant on those countries for his security and prosperity. If he keeps making those statements then, you might have a point.

[cantbeserious]

102. False Equivalence To Fan The Flames

eom

[Adrahil]

118. Yeah... Putin ain't gonna let him go. He might as well get comfortable. NT

[Adrahil]

119. This is all you need to know about Eddie's Intellectual honesty....

"These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations carried out by the powerful rather than the powerless. By refusing to compromise their principles in the face of intimidation, they have earned the respect of the world. It is my intention to travel to each of these countries to extend my personal thanks to their people and leaders." - Edward Snowden.

[Titonwan]

123. Even if Edward Snowden were to come back...

... it won't make a bit of difference on whether revelations will continue, because they will. Certain journalists hold that information now and Ed has none of it.
The cat's out of the bag. The genie's out of the lamp. The ship has sailed.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/

[cali]

130. fuck you daly.

[cui bono]

133. He didn't intend to stay in Russia. The US pulled his passport so he is stuck there.

I don't think he's "enjoying" anything.

[NCTraveler]

136. At this point, Snowden the person is insignificant.

He holds no information that we want and his inability to put thoughts together logical thoughts makes listening to him a waste of time. I could care less if he comes back or not. I wouldn't mind not seeing his name again. He has been a useful stooge for us. We all have our place, and that is his. We will benefit greatly from his actions, not his intelligence or fake yearning for a society free from government surveillance. Personally, I think he is where he needs to be. He is currently safe from "big brother". Maybe we could just allow him to commute from Russia to China at his own free will. So much time has been expended trying to determine if he is a hero or traitor that we have lost sight of the big picture.

[Glassunion]

140. They should teach logic in school. nt

[Incitatus]

154. They teach science in school, but some people still think Earth is 6k years old.

You can't fix stupid.

[Blue_Tires]

141. He doesn't necessarily have to come home

But I do think his rhetorical case becomes much stronger if he takes asylum in a different country...

[idendoit]

144. Eddie would have a tough time getting back here.

With his passport revoked and travel privileges denied, he'd need Uncle Sam to give him a ride. It's like the line from Gorky Park(the movie). A Moscow investigator replies to a woman complaining about lack of heat in his Lada.
Yes, state vehicles have heat, but they don't always take you where you want to go.

[MADem]

153. There may be trouble....aaaaa heaaaaad.....!

A little contemplative music for the champion of freedom who doesn't like to be spied on...unless, of course, it's Papa Putin doing it, I guess!

[oldandhappy]

160. I would be surprised if Putin let him out

of Russia at this point. I suspect he is a prisoner, maybe not in jail but non the less he is confined to Russia and probably for a long time. I keep expecting to hear that he has been married off to a Russian woman.

[Vincardog]

161. They are hiding FROM a Corrupt Regime, does your nose bleed way up there on that high horse?

[alarimer]

162. Jesus fucking christ

So I guess you approve of spying on citizens, then?

[bravenak]

163. I want him to stay in Russia.

Where they protect freedom.

[Deep13]

177. come home to a different corrupt regime. nt

[grahamhgreen]

179. Yeah, which corrupt regime are they talking about?

[Cha]

178. No, Stay in a more Corrupt Regime..fucking Russia.

I don't give a shite what Anti-Americanism the "Dupes for Putin" spew.