POLL: Should Snowden Come Back to the US to Face "Justice"?

[snot]

Pls rec this so we get a bigger sampling.

94 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes.
	15 (16%)
	No.
	73 (78%)
	I don't know.
	1 (1%)
	I don't care.
	5 (5%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Scootaloo]

1. Oh good, there's an "I don't care" option

The two-way cult of personality around this guy is ridiculous, and distracts from the meat of the story. if he comes back, whatever, I hope he like prison food. If he doesn't, whatever, I hope he likes airport food. Now what about the information he's provided?

[Aerows]

20. The information he has provided is the key

His personality is meaningless. It's the message that is important, not the messenger.

[delrem]

48. My guess is that he'll find a safe refuge.

He's very bright and I quite enjoy reading his thoughts and opinions.

[Shoulders of Giants]

2. No, it will just be a kangaroo court.

The fact that the person who the government is going after most in regards to illegal spying activities is the whistleblower tells me everything I need to know. Snowden should stay far away. I am so glad he beat the system. Going after a whistleblower is the actions of a tyrant. If he comes back he will not get "justice." He will get to spend the rest of his life in prison, so i recommend he stay out of USA. I am getting really tired of the way our country thinks the action of whitleblowing is always worse than the crimes the whistleblowing uncovers. I think some other people in our government need "justice" instead.

[treestar]

89. BS

stupid excuse on his part. Proving his motives were not what he claims they are.

[Shoulders of Giants]

116. If its not BS, then why aren't people being prosecuted for the crimes he exposed?

Why is the only one who has charges against him the whistleblower? That tells me everything I need to know. Its a Kangaroo Court and a Kangaroo Government.

[T. J. Kong]

95. It would be extremely detrimental to the American people (not to mention 'Justice')

if he were to return to face the wrath of the 'gangsters' currently running our 'security' institutions, whose sole purpose would be to silence, not him, but FUTURE whistle-blowers.

That is THE main reason they want to get their hands on him, to make an example of him (just like the MOB does).

It is incredible that he was forced to seek protection in a de facto 'witness protection program' from our/his own government.



How much creepier can our gov get, spying on EVERYONE, bullying the planet, barking orders at sovereign nations, and declaring illegal people voting for their own interest, while at the same time FULLY supporting a neo-fascist led, violent overthrow of a democratically elected head of state?

Just because they chose to ignore the facts on the ground, do they really think they can get everyone else to pretend along with them that all this hasn't happened? (Well, besides their elite buddies, in there paid stenographers in their M$M)

Is this what a failing empire behaves like in the end?

[SidDithers]

96. Paul Revere!...nt

Sid

[2banon]

112. ^^^This! 1000+^^^ T.J.Kong!

Excellent Post!!

[RC]

3. As stated elsewhere, Those against what Snowden did, are for the surveillance state.

No matter how they slice and dice the distinctions that really are not that much of any distinctions.
So no, he can't come back till we regain control of our government again. That could take a while.

[jazzimov]

14. Wrong. nt

[7962]

18. Agreed.

[sabrina 1]

88. I agree with RC having chatted with a few of them. They are truly scary in their blind loyalty

that obliterates all reason when it comes to the harm that was done to this country by Bush and his outrageous anti-Constitutional policies. But not to worry, the rest of us will join the fight to restore your rights no matter how long it takes.

[bravenak]

4. Do not care.

He can stay there in a country that protects freedoms.

[delrem]

53. I don't think it's about whether Russia "protects freedoms". nt

[bravenak]

76. I dont think so either. But he seems to like it there. He can stay.

If he comes back, i'll have to hear about him again.

[delrem]

78. My guess is that he'll move on.

Regardless, you will hear about him many, many times in future.

IMO the world would be impoverished without his discussion points.

[bravenak]

94. Rarely do i disagree with you.

I just don't have much interest. The government has been spying on black people (and other special groups like communists, women's rights advocates, abolitionists) since before slavery ended, its nice to see that it's finally a problem with everyone else. I'm used to feeling spied on. Not my biggest issue.
Makes me smile to see some people all pushing the 'we would have never known if not for The revelations of Snowden lines'. Jiminy crickets!

I still can't figure out what new information he gave us. I had either known or strongly suspected everything he revealed except for the irrational things he declared the government guilty of like knowing your thoughts as they form. Wtf? I'm over him.

[delrem]

97. When DiFi got on her white horse named silver

and shook her lance to the sky, I knew we'd be at least twice fucked over before she was done.
But that's a different topic.

I think "The Snowden Revelations (tm)" are in fact important -- tho' I know that Snowden is an accidental figure -- because they put focus on a black on white proof of the existence of a total dragnet of internet data. The particulars and nomenclature of that dragnet is now part of our common vocabulary, so we can speak about it without fear. I mean e.g. the fear of sounding like some fisheyed freak.

But as to whether anything has changed: no. I don't think there's any change. The issue became part of a media cycle which, perhaps counter-intuitively (?), immediately inoculated us against any notion that the issue had importance.

[2banon]

113. Good point..

But as to whether anything has changed: no. I don't think there's any change. The issue became part of a media cycle which, perhaps counter-intuitively (?), immediately inoculated us against any notion that the issue had importance.

I am somewhat encouraged now that the issues are being discussed in the media, but underneath is the knowledge that if past is prologue, it will eventually get swept under the rug, just as g'tmo and drones and the rest.

[Jamaal510]

107. This.

"He can stay there in a country that protects freedoms."

[itsrobert]

5. And the Death Penalty

why not?

[Logical]

6. So you are in favor of the death penalty? n-t

[LittleBlue]

7. Justice would mean facing a kangaroo military court

being convicted automatically, and spending the rest of his life in isolation.

No, he should never return.

[itsrobert]

9. Because he is a coward

he won't return.

[LittleBlue]

12. Because he has functioning brain cells

he won't return.

[bvar22]

19. +1.

Snowden would have to be STUPID to return now,
and those calling for him to do so are likewise.
Snowden has proved he is NOT stupid.

The Colonial Royalists (authoritarians) also called the early American "insurgents" cowards
because they wouldn't stand up and let the Forces of the Government administer Justice (AKA Shoot them down).
I think the American insurgents were pretty smart.

The fact that General Clapper can openly LIE to the Senate "Oversight" Committee under OATH
and then walk away laughing PROVES the our government is the LAST place Snowden need to go for "justice".
Our system is BROKEN.
There is NO justice for Clapper.
There is NO justice for Manning and the other Whistle Blowers,
and there certainly will be NO Justice for Edward Snowden here in the USA.

*Rampant Government Secrecy and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Persecution of Whistle Blowers and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Government surveillance of the citizenry and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Secret Laws and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Secret Courts and Democracy can not-co-exist.

*Our Democracy depends on an informed electorate.

You either believe in Democracy,
or you don't.
It IS that simple.

[SoapBox]

31. Not only a coward...

but a stupid fucking dumbass.

Flees America (the country that he would supposedly love so much that HE would expose "National" secrets), shits on the girlfriend and craps on his parents. He weaseled information out of co-workers to gain access and then tries to give us the "poor little me" act.

I want to know who really put him up to this, got the plan rolling, etc. I will never believe that little Eddie innocently stumbled upon the NSA activities.

Enjoy Russia and King Putin, Comrade Eddie...because you are never, ever fucking coming back here...TRAITOR!

[delrem]

55. "coward" is an easy word to use.

But Snowden is no coward. There isn't a single person who calls him "coward" who has even a smidgeon of the courage he has demonstrated.

[oldhippie]

13. He wouldn't face a military court ....

He is not military, he is a civilian. UCMJ has no jurisdiction.

[delrem]

56. The fact is that the US has proven deficient w.r.t. matters of justice

on all things that might be wrapped up in the "post 9/11" ball.

You have to know this.

[oldhippie]

87. WTF? No, I don't know this .....

... What are you trying to say?

[delrem]

90. I'm saying that the US has much to clean up.

Hard to do that when so much is ultra-top-secret security clearance secret, including, it seems, evidence against some supposed perps held in US prisons.

[oldhippie]

92. derp. nt

[delrem]

99. Your "derp" is small consolation to the accused, in post 9/11 US.

[msanthrope]

28. Military??? Wrong court. nt

[LittleBlue]

37. Same outcome

Indefinite detention or sham trial, same outcome for Snowden.

Only a complete moron would chose that over freedom. Must be irksome to the NSA pimps to know he'll be free forever, never having to worry about US "justice".

[JoePhilly]

115. Forget it, he's rolling.

[Bad Thoughts]

8. He can be a hypocrite in Russia if he wants

Snowden losing credibility doesn't bother me.

[Shoulders of Giants]

15. To me its irrelavent if Snowden is a hypocrite.

I agree, things are much worse in Russia. However, Snowden is merely an unemployed computer programmer and not a public official. He doesn't owe us anything. I'm grateful he exposed what he did. If it it was Ariel Castro who exposed the information I would still be grateful. Therefore, the content of Snowden's character matters nothing to me. He's already done enough for one lifetime. If he gets the goods on Putin somehow, then he'd be even better. However, he doesn't owe us that.

[truedelphi]

10. Oh for Pete's sake, if there was even half the indignation and anger

Over Pelosi taking impeachment of George W off the table, or of Obama "Leaning forward" and forgetting the past, especially as it relates to the torture and other crimes such as leading our nation into an illegal war, committed by his predecessors, this would be one terrific world to live in.

[Shivering Jemmy]

11. Thank you for the "I don't care" option

[baldguy]

16. Should Dick Cheney & Karl Rove be prosecuted for outing Valerie Plame?

Funny that there are hypocrites here who claim to be progressive Democrats, who would cheer at seeing one pair of Republicans in orange pajamas being led to face their crimes, but turn around and cheer when another Republican escapes justice for doing exactly the same thing.

John Adams is rolling in his grave.

[Pholus]

26. If it is justice you want....

ask President Obama why it was worthwhile to "look forward" and let Cheney walk instead of showing that we the people did not endorse what was done in our names.

Or quit your crocodile tear shedding over old Dick.

First, You obviously approve of Dick's bastard progeny of an out of control surveillance program -- your position on Cheney's evil is already fatally nuanced.

Second, figures that you'd have a soft spot for the signer of the Alien and Sedition act.

Two great tastes that go great together, nicht wahr?

[baldguy]

36. I'm guessing you failed your reading comrehension skills tests in 7th grade.

Cheney's "bastard progeny" is Edward Snowden. They both committed crimes against the United States & it's citizens. They both should be in federal prison. The only reason they're running around free is because TPTB in the corporatocracy that supports them has made a cynical calculation that such distractions make it easier for the 1% to maintain control. More so when useful idiots do most of their work for them.

[Pholus]

43. It takes a steely-eyed "realistic" Democrat to note all that, huh.

Too bad that instead it is you. Neocon suckups are one of the MOST useful idiots to the 1%'ers.

But hey, it ain't all bad. You have influenced the debate and actually changed my opinion about something! Back in the day, we used to argue the same side of gun control though I do admit I usually regretted it when you chimed in on my point because you are as subtle as a battering ram and only about half as good at making a coherent argument. But nobody had heart like you as a name-calling low information rabble-rouser I admit.

But sadly I have had a change of heart since last June, listening to neocon apologists blab on about the need for warrantless dragnet mass surveillance, openly questioning the loyalties of those concerned about it, and making transparently false excuses as revelation after revelation showed just how deep the rabbit hole goes....

So, it happened, I am now of the opinion that the gunners saw something I didn't see and fully appreciate. Something that fully justifies their toys as a good spoiler or at least a speed bump to some of the nastier places that Dick's PNAC baby might take us.

I owe it in no small part to you!

[baldguy]

50. Your juxtaposition of blinding ignorance and sophomoric sarcasm is very interesting.

Is that something you work at regularly, or does it just come naturally?

[Pholus]

54. Well, so you find me interesting! That isn't reciprocated I fear...

But I can depend on you to ALWAYS respond in a predictable way that lets my whatever it was you said shine though.

[Chef Eric]

58. Speaking of 7th grade...

It seems you were absent the day your classmates learned the difference between "its" and "it's." Or perhaps you just didn't pay attention.

[JoeyT]

30. Funny that the same people that defend not prosecuting Dick, George, or Karl

are the ones screaming for Snowden's head. And those people have to defend not only not prosecuting the outing of a CIA agent, but refusing to prosecute fucking WAR CRIMES. Get back to us with your outrage when Snowden is personally responsible for murdering over a few hundred thousand people, waging a war, and torturing people.

Next time you yell about hypocrites, make sure you aren't looking at a mirror.

[baldguy]

41. Tell me: What's it like to be a RW dupe who gets caught up in his own propaganda?

When you look in the mirror you see Rand Paul staring back at you, don't you?

Dick Cheney = Ed Snowden. They both should be in prison.

[Mojorabbit]

64. Throwing Rand Paul in the thread for the fail. nt

[baldguy]

68. The failure is on the Snowden fans

trying to get everyone to ignore who he has CHOSEN to associate himself with.

[Pholus]

72. Awwww, your job just got harder!

Look how the Carlyle Group has it's tentacles all over your favorite spying programs!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/nsa-revelations-put-booz-allen-hamilton-carlyle-group-in-uncomfortable-limelight/2013/06/11/8f4d9138-d2ca-11e2-a73e-826d299ff459_story.html

Man, when I accused you of being a neocon Cheneyite I didn't realize that it was actually the whole BFEE in on this and it was for profit.

For example, your hero Clapper? Yup, Booz-Allen.

http://www.thenation.com/article/174749/edward-snowden-one-american-who-isnt-sale

Given the big-business approach to surveillance I shouldn't be surprised he probably has stock options on it for when he retires.

So, anyway. I interrupted you. You were saying something about ignoring your associations?

[JoeyT]

79. Dick Cheney hates Snowden.

In fact, when he talks about Snowden and the NSA he sounds more or less exactly like you guys do.

?t=46s

So Cheney projection attempt fail. I'm not even sure what to call the utter logical disconnect that led you to make that association. Ronald McDonald = Eva Longoria! Robin Williams = Alfred Hitchcock! It's like some bizarre word non-association game hipisters play after doing thirty shots of espresso.

You know your arguments are morally bankrupt because they more or less amount to either "I support spying on Americans" or "My president right or wrong!", so you can't drag those out, because they're arguments that make you look like either a rank authoritarian or a hypocrite. So y'all are basically reduced to frenzied yapping. Yelling "Rand Paul!" at anyone that walks by is not only not an argument to be taken seriously, it's not even an argument. It's just barking for the sake of barking.

[Pholus]

110. Nice Video Clip!

I am stunned that our "national security Dems" can't even apply the Cheney test to something.

Given how much of a fuckup he was, his endorsement of dragnet domestic surveillance and drones should be a huge assed warning that there is basic unwholesome evil in those programs.

[treestar]

91. funny the same people who insist on prosecuting

Dick don't think Eddie should be.

Dick at least was Veep and part of the national security apparatus. It would be much harder to do.

Maybe he should have been prosecuted, but how does that excuse Eddie? How does that mean the rest of us should have to suffer whatever Eddie decides to do with our national security secrets?

[Pholus]

109. It created a corrosive culture of lawbreaking.

"Looking Forward" was a cowardly decision that set the stage for much corruption.

So Eddie was the product of his environment and this was a leadership failure of the worst sort.

[1awake]

17. What the poll should say is

Who thinks anything Snowden uncovered will ever be addressed in a non BS way.

[KittyWampus]

21. Went with "I Don't Care", cause he's an autonomous human being able to make his own decisions….

and I am totally ambivalent and can argue either way.

[Aerows]

22. The message he had to the world is what is important

Not the messenger himself.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

24. Exactly

why I went with NO.

[840high]

46. ...^ that

[jtuck004]

23. Have to find it first. n/t

[Cryptoad]

25. Since Putin

gave him a new beach house in Crimea in exchange for a copy of the DOD's war book, its going to be hard to get him to leave.... plus Ron Paul is planning a summer trip over to stay with him.

[zeemike]

27. Wow...that has the same flavor

As one would find on a right wing crazy site.

[randome]

59. So why doesn't Putin give him safe passage somewhere else?

He doesn't need a U.S. passport to leave Russia. Putin wants him close at hand. Why do you think that is?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

[zeemike]

62. Well he would be a fool to do that

When the US brought down a plane by a head of state because they thought he might be on board.
That demonstrated the lengths they will go to...

But if you have a conspiracy theory about it then let's hear it.

[randome]

63. The conspiracy theory is that the U.S. brought down a plane in order to 'get' Snowden.

Yet they are surprisingly leaving him to stew in Russia without using these immense forces again.

That incident was so much the definition of 'kerfuffle' as anything can be.

And Snowden is a fool for many reasons, not the least of which is that he thought PRISM was a way for the NSA to download the Internet on a daily basis. He's not the brightest snow on the walk.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[zeemike]

71. So you don't want to talk about your CT.

You want to say that others have one about why we brought down a plane with a head of state on it.
Nice deflect.

[delrem]

75. That "incident" happened.

Your self-contradictory posting, above, also happened.

[Zorra]

29. You might as well ask, "Should Snowden voluntarily lock himself in a cage for the rest

because he reveled important to truths to the world?"

If Snowden came back to the US to face life in prison, he would be even stupider than the people who think he should.

[randome]

34. He DID lock himself in a cage.

He may as well run to the Ecuadorian embassy now.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[Zorra]

38. how so? nt

[randome]

49. He trapped himself in Russia by stealing hundreds of thousands of documents...

...that had nothing to do with what he supposedly wanted to tell us about. And then he complains about why the U.S. wants to stop him.

No one but himself set up the conditions of his incarceration. Any thief on the run will have their passport revoked. Russia can give him safe transport at any time but apparently Putin doesn't want that.

Strange that no one is questioning Putin's motives for keeping him.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

[WatermelonRat]

32. I'd prefer he attempted to take a dash for a country that actually shares his professed values.

My feelings about the guy would be a lot less mixed if he didn't buddy up with a country like Russia.

[JoeyT]

33. The reason what happens to Snowden matters is not for the sake of Snowden,

but for the sake of future whistleblowers. The people screaming for his head know that too, that's WHY they're screaming for his head.

I want to hear about future government abuses of power. That's why demanding Snowden face "justice" is support for the security state. You can't claim to not support the security state while simultaneously demanding anyone that defies it be made an example of. Well, you can, but everyone is going to laugh at you.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Justice? As in, "Lead the guilty man in for a fair trial and sentencing"?

[Helen Borg]

39. If Snowden came back...

He would be assassinated. Either by someone working for the Government, or by some nut with a gun (OKAY, these are not mutually exclusive, upon rereading the sentence). That is guaranteed.

[Martin Eden]

40. I voted Yes

However, I must point out that my concept of Justice may not be the definition intended in the poll.

Whatever might be said about Edward Snowden, I believe what he did was necessary. If Justice is served, he wouldn't be punished.

[rug]

42. You're assuming justice is here to face.

[840high]

44. Hell NO.

[Jackpine Radical]

45. The fact that you felt the need to put "justice" in quotes--plus

the fact that I fully agree with your perceived need to do that--pretty much summarize my sentiments on the issue.

[woo me with science]

70. Well said.

[Octafish]

47. Right after Bush and Cheney.

Until that option, there is no Justice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. I really do not give a shit

at this point it is so much more bigger than Snowden, really.

Constitutional crisis territory in fact.

[OldBoss]

52. One shallow consideration ...

Set aside justice and the constitution, how will it impact mid-terms? Among my network folks regard for him is evenly split between hero and traitor. However, the one emotion people seem to have despite their position is passion. What if he is acquitted? What if he is convicted? What if he disappears? Or prolonged stay at Gitmo? I do not think any political class want him in headlines preceding the mid-terms.

[2banon]

57. No, but the NSA needs to face Justice.

The DOJ, CIA, DHS, DEA, and the FISA court, just to name a few. Toss in a few judges as well. Yep, they need to face justice, but not Snowden.

[grahamhgreen]

111. +1

[Catherina]

60. Not just no but hell no. n/t

[CFLDem]

61. Yes

I'll gladly provide the rope.

[Logical]

67. LOL, death penalty fan. Sure you belong here? n-t

[CFLDem]

77. Actually I prefer life with no parole

since the death penalty really isn't much of a punishment.

But in this case I'd hate to cheat Snowden out of a traitor's death.

[Logical]

80. So in other words, no logic at all. I get it. n-t

[CFLDem]

81. Let me guess

You once had bunny but not anymore...

[Logical]

82. LOL, 4 posts locked there. Temper Temper. I imagine your stay might be short. n-t

[CFLDem]

83. Too short to pick the higher up fruit, I see.

Well enjoy picking the low fruit since it's only in season for one more week.

[Logical]

84. You are the lower fruit? Confused, are you drunk? nt

[CFLDem]

86. I think it's time for bed my dear Logical.

I'd hate for you to miss the school bus.

[Trust Buster]

65. How not to run an intelligence agency

Don't be foolish people. If anyone with classified clearance can unilaterally decide to release classified information, then you don't have an intelligence service anymore. Sure he should come back and face justice. If he were to come back and live amongst us, how many of you would be willing to open your check books and help pay for the 24/7 security he would require ?

[Logical]

66. The 'Yes' people are the usual suspects. nt

[kenny blankenship]

69. No, and fuck the goosesteppers.

[Scuba]

73. When you expose a nation's crimes, you should not be subject to their "justice".

[GoneFishin]

74. Yeah. After the DOJ prosecutes all the criminal banksters, Cayman island tax cheats, and Bush era

war criminals.

[Tarheel_Dem]

85. Who gives a fuck? I hope they make him Emperor of CRIME-a.

[Tarheel_Dem]

93. Poll: Most think Edward Snowden should stand trial in U.S.

By Sarah Dutton, Jennifer De Pinto, Anthony Salvanto and Fred Backus
January 22, 2014

National Security Agency (NSA) contractor Edward Snowden leaked information about the secret program that collected the phone and internet records of people in the U.S. and abroad – and his actions are not well-received by the public.

Most Americans – 61 percent - think Snowden should have to stand trial in the United States for his actions. Far fewer – 23 percent - think he should be granted amnesty. Republicans, Democrats, and independents all agree on this as well.

Meanwhile, 31 percent approve of Snowden’s actions, while most, 54 percent, disapprove. Majorities of Republicans, Democrats, and independents disapprove

When asked to come up with a word that describes Edward Snowden, nearly a quarter volunteer either traitor or a similar word that questions his loyalty to his country, while 8 percent say he is “brave” or “courageous” or “a hero”. Just 2 percent volunteered that he is a patriot or patriotic, and another 2 percent say “terrorist”.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-most-think-edward-snowden-should-stand-trial-in-us/

Expect those approval numbers to drop even more precipitously in the coming days.

[Vashta Nerada]

98. The US govt. should face justice.

[Jamaal510]

104. Lock that Ron Paul-loving traitor up and throw away the key. nt

[JoePhilly]

114. I've always found that response interesting.

And so seeing a stack of them here is even more so.

Its as if you've welcomed them to a party of people you don't like. Hoping that will offend them maybe? Get the last word?

I mean, you could just ignore them quietly. But for some reason, you needed to announce it.

Do you need them to know that you will no longer have your beautiful mind sullied by their anonymous comments on the internet?

Its really fascinating.

[Tarheel_Dem]

108. +1