Do you believe the United States of America is currently primarily a force for good in the world or

[Douglas Carpenter]

primarily a force for bad in the world?

17 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I believe the United States of America is currently primarily a force for good in the world.
	8 (47%)
	I believe the United States of America is currently primarily a force for bad in the world.
	3 (18%)
	I believe the United States of America is currently about 60% a force for good in the world and 40% a force for bad in the world
	0 (0%)
	I believe the United States of America is currently about 60% a force for bad in the world and 40% a force for good in the world
	3 (18%)
	It is somewhere between 51% a force for good in the world and 49% a force for bad in the world and 49% a force for good in the world and 51% a force for bad in the world.
	1 (6%)
	It depends - When the Republicans are in power it's primarily a force for bad in the world. When the Democrats are in power it is primarily a force for good in the world
	2 (12%)
	I believe New York City in terms of diversity, availability and quality of the highest level has the best restaurants on earth followed by the San Francisco Bay Area.
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
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[ManiacJoe]

1. Options 1 and 2 need to be rephrased.

Currently they contains options 3 and 4, which given the phasing of the other options suggests that a high percentage number was the intent for 1 and 2.

[Warren DeMontague]

2. I believe the US is primarily a force for good, with the exception of Manhattan

Sorry, but y'all are just way too damn self-absorbed.

There are some cities with exceptionally, consistently exquisite food that are also non-pretentious and not ridiculously crowded or pricey, but I sure as shit am not gonna tell you all where they are!

[Douglas Carpenter]

6. I could see a case for L.A. being # 2. But, # 1. - Come on... and I have never lived there

so I am looking at it neutrally and dispassionately

[Warren DeMontague]

8. You couldn't pay me enough.

'Course, I wouldn't want to live in L.A., either. But if I had to choose, I'd take So Cal in a heartbeat over the East Coast.

Just my totally subjective opinion, of course. No claim to neutrality here.

[TransitJohn]

3. It's a force for extracting profit from the world. Good or bad matter not. eom

n/t

[Wounded Bear]

4. This ^ ^

Though I voted 60/40 bad. IMHO we have virtually no moral high ground to stand on.

[moondust]

5. Losing ground.

As amoral corporate control increases, a general loss of moral compass and decline in moral action follows.

[Gravitycollapse]

7. It is primarily a source for corporate greed, regardless of consequence.

[Douglas Carpenter]

9. some more results

[Ken Burch]

10. Our values, at their best, are a force for good-the actions of our leaders, mostly not.

The key problem remains that, when faced with a choice between supporting democracy and supporting "market values", even our most liberal leaders(the few who have been liberal)usually give the preference to market values...which means we almost always stand, in practice, with the few against the many.


Phil Ochs put it brilliantly in one of his songs:

"We own half the world, oh say can you see,
and the name for our profits is 'democracy'.

So like it or not, you will have to be 'free'.
'Cause We're The Cops Of The World, boys,
We're the Cops of the World.

[yuiyoshida]

11. WRONG...WRONG ...WRONG...

San Francisco has more Restaurants representing nearly every country in the world. I wonder if you can GET Malaysian one night, followed by Cajin the next, followed by Hawiian and then food from the Philippines. Some one once said that even if you TOOK three months every night to visit a Restaurant from another Country, you would probably would still have many more to visit including African restaurants.

Of course I am biased...I am a San Francisco Resident!

[joshcryer]

13. I like that, restaurant diversity as a metric for multiculturalism!

You may be speaking tongue in cheek but that's really fascinating to me and I didn't read your post before I posted mine. I think the US is a very accepting culture, even the much maligned south has its "southern hospitality" and you'll see that on shows like "What Would You Do?" where even in Texas gay couples being harassed were defended.

[Douglas Carpenter]

14. I lived inside San Francisco for about 5 years. It is excellent for food that is why I listed it as

the second best restaurant city in the world with L.A. possibly being in the same league - but spread out over a lot more miles of highway. But neither are in the league of New York City. If I think of what was the very best restaurant in the Haight and the Castro combined - which is where I lived for five years - there would be a dozen equals on every corner of Greenwich Village or Soho or East Village - and Greenwich Village, Soho and East Village are considered the place where the new grads out of culinary school cut their baby teeth and learn their trade. In terms of diversity San Francisco is incredible - but it is sill not New York. In New York even the panhandlers and the crazies who carry signs and warn that the world is coming to an end - New York has only the best of the best of the best of even that.

[yuiyoshida]

15. You may be right about having the best Chefs....

AND maybe NYC has the best chiefs, but as for DIVERSITY, NO ONE BEATS SAN FRANCISCO. We have restaurants represented from EVERY corner of the EARTH. I am even talking about rare places where certain vegetables not found anywhere other than in places like Hong Kong or Taiwan. IF you were to look in a San Francisco Yellow pages, (Unfortunately I do not even think they are printed any longer) You would find the section on Restaurants the thickest section, listing restaurants with every kind of cuisine you could possibly imagine and some you would never guess. Ethiopian, Indonesian, Singaporean, Salomon Islanders food, Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, Tahitian, South American from Chile to Peru. Haitian and Louisianan Cajun foods. Philippines, and Malaysian specialties. African foods from Egyptian to the Congo! Multiple Chinese styles..from different Chinese regions, Greek, Turkish, Hungarian..Russia.. the list goes on and on. I don't think NYC can compete with the International Restaurants that make up San Francisco and here's another fact. There are even pure Vegetarian restaurants in the city, making veggies taste great. I have had a three foot vegetarian spinach burrito.. amazing stuff!

San Francisco has very few Fast Food Restaurants here. The reason is so all the Restaurants in the city get a fair shot at having customers, without McDonald's, Burger King or Kentucky Fried Chicken soaking up all the customers.


You may have lived here five years, But I have lived here all my life. I am a proud San Franciscan and one thing I have to point to is the diversity that is part of this small city by the bay. YOU CAN EVEN DINE out on the SAN FRANCISCO BAY...on a boat if you want to. We have some amazing sea food restaurants here, some of which even will fly in a Maine lobster to put on the menu.

[AsahinaKimi]

16. I will confirm this...

My little sis is correct.

[Douglas Carpenter]

22. have you spent any time in NYC? Again I want to say that I lived in the Bay Area for 9 years/5

inside inside San Francisco in the Castro and the Haight. It is incredibly diverse - food wise and I all respects. But frankly nothing in the league of New York - not even close - not even close to being anywhere near the same league. I would strongly recommend spending at least one week there.

[yuiyoshida]

26. I have been to NYC yes...

You know what this reminds me of? "YANKEES!! NO...GIANTS!! YANKEES!!....NO GIANTS.." But we had Micky Mantle,,., BUT WE had Willie MAYS..." SO no, this is never going to be truly answered. Keep your Yankees.. I will be a Giants fan forever..and I prefer my city by the bay to NYC.. any day of the week. The Insults from Los Angeles people about how SAN FRANCISCO is a "quaint" little town can stand.. but When it comes to food, IMHO...San Francisco rules in terms of food.

[Douglas Carpenter]

34. no, not really I have actually lived in San Francisco - I have a lot of ties to San Francisco

When I moved from San Francisco to Boston some years ago I was shocked at how many light years San Francisco is ahead if Boston food wise. I have never lived in NYC and don't even have one single friend currently living there. I would be very happy to argue that San Francisco is the food capital of the world - if it were true. But it's not. Although it's way, way, way ahead of any city anywhere in the world that is even remotely close to the same size.

[snooper2]

28. Actually, wrong, HOUSTON beats San Fran

Restaurants, Shopping, Clubs, and Nightlife

Houston has more restaurants per capita than any other city in the world. With over 11,000 to choose from, virtually every cuisine is available. Local favorites include Américas (Pan American), Mai’s (Vietnamese), Chuy’s (TexMex), Mi Luna (tapas), T’afia (eat local-the gourmet way), and House of Pies (diner fare). For more information on Houston restaurants, see here.

http://sociology.rice.edu/Content.aspx?id=133

[joshcryer]

12. I vote for "good" for one reason, and one reason only.

While discussing politics with my non-American friends, nationalism and racism come up often. This still never ceases to amaze me. My Mexican-American immigrant friends will talk about race on a level that I have never considered before. They actually notice racial characteristics and they will point them out, while I, having been brought up in a very fundamentalist household, don't notice them nearly was well.

One could take that as a negative thing but I think it's just really interesting. I actually don't think I should get into a discussion about what was said in these conversations, because one might unfairly judge the immigrants I am close with. I can give a general idea, though. A close friend of mine was really fascinated by the racial groupings that happened in her school, and that ultimately there were bands of groups. I never experienced that, where does that come from? While out shopping or hanging out those sorts of observations would be blurted out and I would be perplexed. "Where is this coming from? Why is it an issue?"

My European friends, likewise, have a really different view of nationalism. In EU having flags flying everywhere makes you an ultra-nationalist, but we, in the US, don't care, we fly flags whether we like the colors or not, I mean, it's just a weird and unexpected thing I came across. One can find someone extremely critical of the US government still flying a flag on the 4th of July. In the EU said behaviors are extreme. Here it's normal but we have yet to have a new Hitler.

People mock the idea of multiculturalism, even as they experience it in their daily lives, they'll say "but the US cracked down on immigration." Except, from my experience, most of my good friends are illegal immigrants (some who have gone through serious, insane, hardships that I wouldn't want anyone to go through; having a parent deported for stupid reasons is beyond comprehension). They want to be part of whatever the "American dream" is. Whatever it is, and I can't say I know it even exists, they believe in it.

So that's why I vote good, my personal experiences with immigrants and people who observe our country.

No doubt, absolutely no doubt the US is perhaps the worst when comes to meddling, particularly during the cold war when I think the US was far more paranoid than it needed to be, and even during the Great Regan Decline where science was basically given the middle finger. But I think the US is back on a good footing, or starting to be, and I think the information age is ushering in rapid progress, never before seen in our history.

Ultimately though over the history of the US, it's been bad, but I think going forward it is "good."

[davidpdx]

18. I agree with what you said

From the point of view of someone who has lived outside the US for a decade most people I know like the US. They don't always agree on our policies, but we are still the envy of the world.

[mr blur]

23. "still the envy of the world"?

Er, I would imagine not. Yes, most of us like the US, but what are we supposed to be envying, exactly? Religious fundamentalism? Ignorance? Disdain for science? Gun-love? The murder rate? Adoration of the military? Imperialism? The lack of a civilized health system? American Exceptionalism?

[davidpdx]

37. I never said the US was perfect

Every country has their extremest. Look at Japan where the right wing denies things that were done during WWII.

I agree with you on guns and the murder rate, part of that is having an inept Congress that refuses to deal with those issues.

The health care system is starting to finally improve, but that will take time.

In terms of imperialism, I think it will take a long time to back down from where we have been the last 13 years. The problem there is we have to start talking more and intervening less.

Our country provides opportunities for people that are not possible in other parts of the world. We are still the land of the free and the home of the brave.

[eridani]

17. Whatchu mean "United States," Kemosabe?

The 1% that is served by the military-industrial complex, or the other 99% of us saps who just live here?

[cali]

19. I don't know, douglas, but I'm rather glad you asked this question

It's one I puzzle over.

I didn't answer the poll, but I think I'd have to say that, sadly, whatever the percentages may be, the U.S. is more of a force for ill than good.

We've exported the so many American values, habits and mindsets that hurt more people than benefit them- from eating habits and food to trickle down and austerity- and that's not even getting into wars for oil and profit to overthrowing elected governments, complicity with right wing regimes, and on and on.

[Douglas Carpenter]

20. some more votes

[Capt. Obvious]

21. Depends on what the meaning of "good" is

[fascisthunter]

24. This is a Hard one for Me

I think the US is both but more so negative due to the powers running our international policies.

[closeupready]

25. "Good" and "Bad" in this context are meaningless.

I think that the US adopts foreign policy goals on the basis to what extent does it enrich US elected officials' campaign donors.

Sometimes, the enthusiasm in doing so goes overboard. Typically, with bad results for those who reside in hostile lands.

[NuclearDem]

27. When we bring diplomatic and economic pressure against violations of international law

in conjunction with the rest of the international community, yes.

When we're the ones violating international law, causing mass civilian casualty attacks with drones, or recklessly destabilizing regions of the world through support of dictators or armed rebellions, no.

If we keep up with the trend of bringing our grievances to the UN and appealing to the international community, then we can be a force for good.

We're never going to be a pure paragon, but neither are we going to be solely responsible for all the world's ills.

[taught_me_patience]

29. The US is a force of economic imperialism n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

30. I used to believe it was a force for good --

but, with education and experience, I can no longer believe that.

When I see us step up and help in a world disaster, my heart flies -- THAT'S what I want our country to be about. I want measured, thoughtful leadership. I want consistency. I want forward movement. I want a foreign policy that understands the root of conflict and acts on that understanding.

[Zorra]

31. The government is not transparent, and often lies to us, so how can we even have a clue?

Former CIA Probers (Read: Church Committee) Urge New Investigative Panel - AP/ABCNews

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10024679175

[LostOne4Ever]

32. Good and bad are relative

So it is hard to say either way.

Are we talking good as in comparison to some of the previous world powers? Yeah I would say we are.
Are we talking about as far as the environment and social justice for the poor? Ehhhh not so much.

[Vashta Nerada]

33. The US just needs to mind its own business.

Unless, of course, a country is committing mass genocide or something to that effect.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

35. i believe we do whatever we need to retain power. that goes for any country with power

over any country/countries with less power

[Douglas Carpenter]

36. one more