You can call me a bleeding heart commie pinko liberal, but

[Scuba]

[unblock]

1. bleeding heard commie pinko liberal!

fortunately, there a better way -- just give the money to poor people instead of those rich lazy bums!

[brooklynite]

2. ...and the Puffin?

[Qutzupalotl]

44. ...has to sleep out in the cold.

Fuck puffins. Seriously, FUCK PUFFINS.

[Warren DeMontague]

71. They're going exticnt.

Barbara's Bakery or no.

[PowerToThePeople]

3. All the lazy trust fund bums have been living off us for ages

No one gives a shit about that.

A slight double standard taking place there.

[truebrit71]

4. ...and corporations....and churches....

....but we can't tax THEM now can we???

[PowerToThePeople]

6. Exactly.

Oil subsidies, no-bid contracts for military contractors. 60% of budget going towards Military...

[7962]

29. 20% of the budget is spent on defense and International Security, not 60%.

But theres still no reason to have anyone going hungry in the US. Right, do away with those oil subsidies and ,ost of the others as well!

[rickyhall]

48. Which planet are from? 20% OMG

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5347680

[7962]

50. Thats a useless chart. "Cost of military spending AND PAST WARS" Thats not the budget.

Here's what an actual budget pie chart looks like
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/defense_budget_2012_3.html

And if you want to compare REAL spending by country, try this one
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS
You'll see Russia and others spend just as much of their GDP on defense as we do

[mbperrin]

52. GDP is a meaningless number.

Country A spends 10% of their $1 billion GDP on war = $100 million
Country B spends 1% of their $16 trillion GDP on war = $160 billion.

Guess who created more war, more havoc, more casualties? Yeah, the 1% guys. You don't get an extra discount for having a small GDP so that you get more stuff to kill strangers you never met.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/defense-spending-fact-of-the-day_n_1746685.html

"The United States spends 58 percent of the total defense dollars paid out by the world's top 10 military powers, which combined for $1.19 trillion in military funding in 2011. With its unparalleled global reach, the US outspends China, the next-biggest military power, by nearly 6-to-1."

[7962]

61. You believe China and Russia and what they report?. GDP is NOT meaningless when it comes to economy

China has been building up their navy and other military divisions without a large uptick in their spending. I guess they could be using forced labor and little pay. You REALLY think they only spend 120 billion? With a force of 5-7 million?
And the subject of what we DO with the military is another thing. We're talking about spending and what we can afford. Sure, we wasted lord knows how many 100's of billions on Iraq. I hate using that term "wasted" since we lost 4k+ people there, but as I'm sure we both agree, that war was criminal.

[toby jo]

64. Do you believe what America reports?

[7962]

65. Well,compared to Russia and China, yes. Do I think we know EVERYTHING, no.

But for the most part I think we do. Certainly there are line items that cant be explained, i.e. secret operations. But there's only about a thousand different non-gov groups who dissect where the money goes. And depending on which party is in office, half of those groups are looking for something wrong to throw at the current administration.

I also believe there IS room to cut. We have about 1000 military bases overseas. I'm sure we could close a good number of those without sacrificing any capability. That would save a LOT right there. Operating even a small overseas base takes a lot of money. And without losing jobs here in the US, like would happen if we started closing more bases here. We already have a lot fewer in country than in years past.
And then there's the weapons programs that the Pentagon doesnt want. I would think they would want anything that would help them, so if they deem it expendable, it should be looked at. Of course, congress doesnt want to lose the jobs in their district making whatever it is on the table, either.

But with the world the way it is today and the economy being global compared to 50 yrs ago, we cannot afford to give the appearance of not being ready to stand against some aggression elsewhere in the world. Or we will regret it, as we have in the past.

[mbperrin]

68. All wars are criminal.

Total waste, nothing else.

And if you don't believe the reports from the ground, how will you get a better number? As I said, GDP is a meaningless, easily manipulated number used because it's convenient and cheap to get, not because it's an indicator of any kind of quality of life.


Remote island, disease-free, food grows just for the picking, no need for clothes, even. No manufacturing. Paradise. GDP: $0
Same island, wracked by cancer in every inhabitant, most expensive hospitals and treatments built and administered with a 25% cure rate. Hell on earth. GDP: billions of dollars.

See?

[7962]

70. Guess we shouldve stayed outta WW2 , too? And no , I dont see.

[mbperrin]

72. Yes, we should have.

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

Senseless to continue any discussion with someone who will not discuss, so see you around.

[7962]

73. Wow. Whats to discuss? Your view is shared by hardly anyone.

[PowerToThePeople]

74. I agree that all wars are criminal. n/t

[mbperrin]

53. We financed those past wars, still paying interest on that money, so yes, that's a valid

charge. Your chart also fails to parse out how much of the medical is spend on military casualties and rehab - all costs of war.

[PowerToThePeople]

55. Maybe "budget" was not the correct terminology

60% of our collected tax dollars.

[xchrom]

5. indeed. nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. Bleeding heart commie pinko liberal puffin!

[sabrina 1]

8. You are a bleeding heart pinko commie and I agree with you.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

9. SAME HERE! No doubt about it. Thanks for posting this! nt

[Cleita]

10. Thank you and we need many more of those. n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

18. Puffins?

Well, yes, I understand the Icelanders are quite fond of their eggs.

[Cleita]

35. Smart ass.

No we need more bleeding heart commie pinko liberals.

[adirondacker]

39. Not just the eggs!

They are on the menus in many of the restaurants and served much like duck. It's one of two things I avoided eating there, the other was whale. I did however manage to keep the Hákarl down when it was offered during a backpacking trip. My thought were "why can't you keep to smoked herring". :/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A1karl

[hfojvt]

11. that's more lunacy than it is anything else

Do you really think we can win people to our side with lunacy?

[daleanime]

12. Why not?

Already proven that reason doesn't work. Lets speak their own language for awhile, who knows.

[hfojvt]

13. Has reason really been tried?

Has compassion really been tried?

I would argue that neither of them has.

[daleanime]

16. Feel free....

doesn't make it true, but please enjoy yourself.

[hfojvt]

20. are you sure?

If you read the fine print.

I believe in Section T4e subsection IV paragraph six line five that it specificially states

"When, and if, the party of the third person (okay, now here you have to go back twelve pages to read that "the party of the third person, going by the username 'hfojvt' on the website Democratic Underground..." although a careful reading would mean you already KNOW that.) argues that something is true, that makes it true."

Although, unless you have children, you may not have read "The Contract". It being a contract every parent is required to sign when a child is born in this universe.

Just FYI, that is how life, the universe and everything is set up.

I'm Zaphod Beeblebrox, baby. Can ya dig it?

[uriel1972]

23. Conservative's have won over a fair block with it...

Why not us?

[hfojvt]

24. well, lunacy does sell

but it only sells lunacy.

Kinda like an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, fighting lunacy with lunacy just makes the whole world insane.

I am trying to stop the insanity. Not feed it.

And one of the ways the rightwing wins. Is that they have a mighty wurlitzer of a RightWing Noise Machine. And one of the things that the RWNM likes to sell to the public is this idea that liberals are nuts.

Makes for an easier sale if it happens to be true, doesn't it?

So pull the cord, make it stop, and get off the crazy train.

[7962]

31. They cant even win over THEMSELVES! nt

[azurnoir]

14. True enough for me

Thanks for posting

[Puzzledtraveller]

15. It's why I love my job

SNAP and Medicaid caseworker.

[classykaren]

37. Thank you for the job you do

[riqster]

17. K & R

Fuck the labels, that is just human decency.

Huge kick and Rec.

[chompers]

19. Yeah, that works.

YOU should definitely be free to give as much as you please.

[PowerToThePeople]

21. Welcome to DU

enjoy your stay.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=312483

[chompers]

67. Thank you.

[uriel1972]

22. I'm good with this... nt

[Fantastic Anarchist]

25. This is my argument to the reactionaries.

With the added information about the comparison of the rape and pillage by Corporate welfare "people" with that of the combined fraud and abuse by a few individuals taking advantage of the system.

[Chico Man]

26. Can I say this?

The quality of DU was much higher before the cheesy MySpace gif meme phenomenon struck. Non-searchability notwithstanding.

[WillyT]

27. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

[kairos12]

28. I'd put the entire population on the dole rather than give any corporate welfare.

[dembotoz]

30. we always suspected that about you

[kairos12]

32. I used to use a picture of the pretty bird to indicate no smoking in my house.. No puffin.

[cr8tvlde]

33. Count me in the BHCPL Party, too. Great Image...thanks.

[Bonx]

34. You must pay a lot of taxes they can support 1000 people -nt

[TeamPooka]

36. ditto

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

38. What more can be said? ...

Nt

[tclambert]

40. A co-worker once said, "That guy you gave $5 to might just buy drugs with that, you know."

I wasn't quick enough to say, "Yeah, he might. But you know what else he might buy with it? FOOD!"

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

63. And he might need those drugs.

A month's prescription of anti-hypertension meds (lopressor) runs $4 at krogers pharmacy. Ditto all sorts of generic drugs people use to stay alive.

[KG]

41. that ratio is prolly other way around anyway...

[Adrahil]

42. SO this. NT

[Chaco Dundee]

43. yes sir

That is what makes us human.

[Agony]

45. YES!

guilty until proven innocent is the fucking Repukelican world view.

We are better than that. and... we need to frame it this way every time.

[DeadLetterOffice]

46. It is the assumption in this country that if you are poor

you are unworthy; your job as a poor person is thus to convince TPTB that you are still in fact a good person, a person deserving of assistance, even though you are poor. We have been this way since we imported the Elizabethan Poor Laws across the pond.
I cannot even begin to imagine what this country would look like if we started with the opposite assumption -- that if you are poor you are deserving of help until and unless you prove otherwise. I'd be a good bit prouder of it, that's for damn sure...

[Paladin]

47. Absolutely. (nt)

[nikto]

49. Aw, 'cmon, do you think JESUS would agree?

I know he'd want them to have guns.

But food and shelter?

[myrna minx]

51. K&R

[me b zola]

54. K&R

[mountain grammy]

56. Of course, of course. There is so much waste of tax money

mmm thinking of 50 votes to repeal the ACA. I feel it's NEVER a waste of my money when it actually gets to the people and pays for healthcare, food and shelter.

[Rex]

57. Something we can all agree on?

I think?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

58. These bums...

[Nanjing to Seoul]

59. Troglodytic Radic-lib!

[ReRe]

60. K&R

I want a bumper sticker: "Proud Commie Pinko Liberal" with that little Puffin.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

62. Hunger hurts

damn it!

K&R

[Zorra]

66. Proud LGBT bleeding heart commie pinko liberal flag flyer reporting for duty.

[Bernie2016]

69. I agree with this sentiment.

Disinterest in economic work should not be a reason for poverty to begin with.

[Token Republican]

76. 1001

1001 people show up.

You have enough to feed the first 1000.

As luck would have it, 1000 are lazy bums and 1 is someone in need.

The person in need is last on the line.

What now grasshopper?

If we had infinite resources, your premise is valid. But good intentions mixed with lazy bums and scarce resources means those in need will go without.

[Scuba]

77. Your argument assumes that resources are scarce. That isn't the case. It's all a matter of ....

... priorities.

Answer this please: If we can't afford to educate our children, to heal our sick and tend to our elderly, just what is it the defense budget is defending?

[Token Republican]

81. Priorities

... priorities.

Answer this please: If we can't afford to educate our children, to heal our sick and tend to our elderly, just what is it the defense budget is defending?

In this thread, your example of the defense budget would be the lazy bums who waste resources.

Resources are scarce, in the sense they are not unlimited. The tipping point might be 1000 lazy bums, 10,000, 100,000 or a million. Lazy bums can be lazy individuals who play the system or have last name of Corp. or Inc. who play the system a different way.

Screening out Lazy Bum Inc & company is essentially setting priorities to make sure those in need are not deprived of resources by others.

[badtoworse]

78. Why should there have to be a choice?

[Scuba]

79. In fact, there isn't. Fraud is actually rare in safety net programs, and most of the fraud ....

... is perpetrated not by recipients, but by corporations contracted to administer the program.

Republicans, however, would seem to prefer to let thousands of legitimately needy folks starve rather than see one undeserving person get a benefit they don't deserve.

[badtoworse]

80. There ought to be a way to get help to the folks who really need it...

and still guard against fraud by whoever might perpatrate it.