General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShould a person be able to use a welfare benefit card to pay bail?
Suppose police arrest a person and the accused is unable to post bail because he or she is impoverished. However, there is a balance on their welfare debit card. Should the state allow the person to use those funds to post bail?
The debate is fired up in my local community, and I am curious what others have to say.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)I mean the poor in America have shown they can't really manage their lives, so why not put them in the hands of our prison system. After all we have locked up more of our populous than most other nations - we must know what we doing.
Recent experience suggests that I am better off noting that this is sarcasm.
Bryant
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)It's managed to keep me out of jail...at least since high school.
dawg
(10,624 posts)If it's a SNAP benefit, then no. That's for food.
The legislation says it is for food, but people can use an EBT card at a cash machine.
demigoddess
(6,641 posts)or at least you would hope so. And some small grocers might not take a card. Get a clue.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)I'm curious, primarily. My instinct says welfare should not be used to pay bail, but I cannot think of a reasonable argument to support the position. At the same time, the arguments to allow a person to use welfare to pay for bail also seem weak.
I'm hoping, indeed, to "get a clue."
Texasgal
(17,045 posts)and credit cards too!
PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 26, 2014, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)
Just food and ONLY food. There seems to be a lot of confusion about this, so let me explain:
EBT cards are primarily for food stamps since all but less then 1% of the assistance goes to people on foodstamps. (I'll get to the less than 1% later.)
For people receiving foodstamp assistance, their EBT cards have a certain amount loaded onto it. My MIL's was $102.00/month. She is not well now, but when she was able to do her shopping w/my assistance, I saw how it worked... There was no cash involved whatsoever. We'd load up her cart with the things she needed. This would include non-food items such as cleaning stuff, toilet paper, ect.
There was no need to separate the items because when it was rung up, the register automatically did it. In other words, that $102.00 went to her food, and her food ONLY... the non-food items had to be paid for w/cash (from her SS). No cash was involved w/her EBT card. Plus there was no way to buy anything other than food because the card would not do it. I really want to make that clear, since people seem to think other things (like cigs, alcohol, ect) can be bought w/them but it doesn't work that way. She was a FS only EBT card holder.
The only way cash comes into play w/an EBT card is if a person is receiving TANF assistance (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families). That is the less than 1% that I was referring to... They get their monthly cash assistance (and foodstamps) on an EBT card. That assistance does indeed come via cash, and can be gotten through an ATM. As an aside, the average monthly amount for a family of 3 is $486.00 (I will see if I can find the source. I just read about this the other day in my local newspaper...)
Just wanted to clear that up.
Eta The link I promised in my last paragraph:
It involves about 1 percent of Maine households and doesnt even cover a majority of children in poverty. As the name suggests, it is a short-term benefit for almost all its recipients, and those who stay on it longer than five years are likely to have a disability or be caring for a family member who is disabled. This is hardly the overgenerous and overused, out-of-control welfare program that its critics claim.
http://www.pressherald.com/opinion/editorials/Our_View__Welfare_bills_move_Maine_in_the_wrong_direction_.html
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Some states allow for cash benefits for certain very low income folks. A recipient can get cash back from a point of sale purchase.
PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)Cash back for point of sale purchases can only occur when money, rather than food, is it's actual purpose.
Maine's EBT foodstamp cards (the state being discussed) function more like a store credit or gift card. For example, you don't get money back on that $100 Walmart card your well intentioned niece gifted you. Even if you only used $88 of it. You just get a balance of $12 to buy more Walmart crap.
Food thankfully, can be obtained in places other than Walmart, but the premise behind it is the same as your hypothetical gift card. It's for food, and food only.
As far as Maine cash assistance for very low income folks... Perhaps you missed it, but I have already addressed that in the post you were replying to.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Your response helped me with my response to the Facebook discussion. Based on what you said, i went on a little research expedition myself and found some data for Maine. Here was my response.
"How often has this situation really occurred? I'd bet money it hardly ever happens. First off, welfare recipients are unable to use an EBT card for cash unless they are one of those rare people using TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) which accounts for about 1% of EBT users. Almost all EBT cards are only good for food. Currently there are over 200,000 people on food stamps in Maine (That's one in seven Mainers). Maybe 1 in a thousand Mainers (or 1 in 200 EBT users) could conceivably use an EBT card for cash, and an even tinier fraction of those might find themselves in jail. It's an interesting question, but it is a false flag creating a faux outrage over a problem that essentially doesn't exist."
Thanks.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)SNAP EBT cards can not be used that way.
Some people call their benefit cards EBT whether they're for TANF or SNAP. EBT just means electronic benefits transfer.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Along with food stamps. What difference to spend the cash aid for bail, or buy a needed tire.
kcr
(15,317 posts)redwitch
(14,944 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)What a crazy question.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)I guess they would go to jail.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)If you spend your food stamps on bail, what will you eat?
The proceeds from pawning stolen items, I suppose.
So, no.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)What are they going to do with the accrued balance on the card while in jail?
If they are dependent on the EBT card, then they should get a bail reduction if it makes them less of a flight risk anyway.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Maybe invest in some of the things that protect people from making the stupid decisions that land them in jail.
2naSalit
(86,622 posts)cannot be used for anything other than food, and not restaurant food or even a rotisserie chicken (hot, prepared foods)...
If a person has a cash benefits amt., usually from TANF or Child Support awards, then the card works like a debit card. There is a distinct difference in how SNAP benefits can be used and there is never a cash back option of any cash handled in either direction when SNAP account is used.
If a $ amt. is accrued, it stays there for about a year and then goes away if unused.
So to answer the question in the OP, yes, if it is EBT CASH, it should be allowed as that is for use at the discretion of the cardholder.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)1. What debit card has a sufficiently high enough balance to spring for any substantial bail?
2. What bail limit small enough to be paid by benefit card couldn't be met by other means.
I would also say that bail is meant as a means of incentivizing a person charged with a crime to appear in court through threat of forfeiture of the monies/assets posted. If they use welfare benefits what is to provide that incentive? What threat is there to ensure compliance?
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)I would say it is fine. Your money, your choice.
Some believe the government is best at telling people what they can and cannot buy - I think a handful of wealthy people in DC don't have any business telling some poor person in rural Montana what they need.
The social contract is - you are down on your luck and need some help, here is some help. Period. When you get back to work you will be paying taxes back into that system should you or others need it.
It is a simple idea and system and should be kept simple (and yes, some will abuse the system - some will also abuse guns, but you don't see me wanting to get rid of them all based on what a few do.)
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)If so perhaps they don't need the card then, no???
mstinamotorcity2
(1,451 posts)You cannot buy anything other than food with SNAP benefits. But most cards are linked to cash benefits also. If there is cash available they should use it to get out of jail. Because it is the welfare of the children at stake with a parent in jail. Anyone can go to jail!!! You could be just as I was. Left home to hit the store around the corner. Toilet tissue on sale 1.89. Was down to last roll so I thought better grab some right quick. Left the house in my Jeep and was pulled over by police for a blown tail light (husband just replaced the day before). I had forgot my purse and had only the Two bucks for tissue. Before I knew it I had Four hundred dollars worth of tickets and my truck impounded!! And the officer politely informed me with no ID I could have been arrested and held until they found out who I was! Yes Arrested!! He even took me back to my residence in the squad car. Called my daughter before I got home and warned her I was coming home in police car, she asked what happened?? I told her me and a lady got into a fight over the last pack of tissue on sale and it was on. I really did say that. The officer was laughing and said that deserves a ride to the house. So I say this to say you could have a minor traffic violation that could land you in jail. Maybe even mistaken identity. If you have cash available on your card you should have the ability to get out of jail. Only Families with Children and elderly, disabled people are on these programs!!! And I am not one of them!! But if they had of locked my ass up I would have used any kind of card to get out
indie9197
(509 posts)to buy anything I want.
aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)On Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:27 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Should a person be able to use a welfare benefit card to pay bail?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024729068
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This rightwing flamebait (poor (black) people are criminals meme) couldn't be more obvious. "The debate is fired up in my local community." Bullshit, this stuff gets debated on rightwing blogs and websites, nowhere else. Go ahead and google the headline and you get heritage.org, theblaze, and foxnews links. This person has a history of sexist and other patently inappropriate posts here.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:37 AM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I am going to allow this post. However, I am not opposed to Admin taking a closer look at the IP address of this poster.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: i hear a dog whistle here
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't care for the question, myself, but the poster has been a member here since 2006. It does seem to be incurring a productive exchange from other members.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I thought it was an interesting OP.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I thought it was a potentially interesting topic, and it really doesn't matter where else it gets discussed/debated. Seems to me the alerter is reading more into it than the post actually says.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: My guess is this poster is not one of us. However, I'm hesitant to make that determination on this post. Keep an eye on them and maybe educate their ass here.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)It never occurred to me that a question like that would spawn a challenge, especially one that mentions race baiting. It is an awful implication. I just thought the EBT issue was a legitimate and interesting question that I was clueless to answer.
Thank you, jurors, for understanding.
If anyone (such as the alerter) would like a screenshot from the debate on Facebook, I can provide it in order to prove it was actually occurring. The facebook discussion was fairly interesting and drew strong responses from both ends of the political spectrum.
As for the accusation of making sexist posts (as in a post that shows "unfair treatment of people because of their sex" , I challenge the alerter to provide an example.
Juror #6 guessed that I am "not one of us". It's a good observation, and currently an accurate observation. I posted prolifically on SmirkingChimp for years, only occasionally dropping in at DU. I was definitely a part of the SC community, and they welcomed and thrived on healthy passionate debate. I left SC because the population fell off, some of the friends I'd made died or went off the radar, and I really didn't post anything for a couple of years after I bailed. I've only been posting regularly to DU for the past several months, and it has been a rough beginning.
Several people have accused me of all sorts of horrid things. I stuck my foot in my mouth in one very public moment of foolishness, but otherwise I've attempted to be rigidly polite, despite the fact that some of the folks here have been rather unpleasant. Yet at the same time, some of the voices here are delightful. Whether I become "one of us" is a question the DU community and I will have to determine as time proceeds.
Regards,
Andrew
aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)coyote
(1,561 posts)I really could careless what they use the money for. Why this is even a topic, I don't know.
surrealAmerican
(11,360 posts)... considering the accused's reliance on welfare? The judge should be taking this into account when the amount is set. If that's not happening, this is where the problem is.
What would you do if you were arrested for something you didn't do, and had no actual money to pay bail?
mike_c
(36,281 posts)I can't come up with any compelling reason why not, other than "even though you're presumed innocent until proven guilty, we want to start shitting on you as soon as possible."
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)... should just remain in jail .... they're poor they must be guilty
newdemocrat999
(37 posts)Iggo
(47,552 posts)And that'd be some pretty goddam low bail, by the way.