Please take street harassment seriously.

[redqueen]

It isn't some rare, harmless occurrence. It isn't just an 'occasional wolf whistle from a homeless man'.

It is a harmful display of dominance, intended to gratify the abuser's ego and reinforce women's lower status in society - a homeless man can abuse a woman of higher social status this way, anytime she's out in public without a man (her owner, in the eyes of these abusers).

The abuse is common, harmful to society, and it can result in injury and even death to girls and women.

[quinnox]

1. And also, it is not always just men either

There was a car full of drunk college girls carrying on at people, including me, in the street the other night.

[seveneyes]

2. A group of teenage girls tried to kill an innocent girl with a brick recently

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Cops_seek_teens_who_hit_Temple_student_with_brick.html

Police are looking for the group of teenage girls who hit a Temple University student in the face with a brick, and are warning students to be on alert near the school's North Philadelphia campus.

In a message sent to students and staff Monday night, the university said its campus safety department was aware of "multiple off-campus assaults on Temple students" in the area of North 17th Street just west of the campus.

[quinnox]

6. Yep, my friend was harrassed last year, by a youngish (early 20s) girl. She was real nasty and

as obnoxious as any guy could be.

[blueamy66]

54. They are going to attack the wrong person some day and regret it....

nt

[Hip_Flask]

3. Don't be rude...

Seems like good advice for anyone...

[Zambero]

4. A slightly diffrent dynamic

Just my observation here and there are always exceptions to any "rule" but those women who create scenes in order to intimidate generally do so in groups, and rarely alone. Men with this mindset have less hesitation to select their targets on a one-to-one basis, and some may actually prefer doing so.

[question everything]

5. So what should a woman do? Call the police?

give the abuser a dirty look? Or just ignore and keep moving? I doubt that a police will do anything and, besides, she will have to wait for the police to arrive instead of just move away. And, of course, the abuser will not stay in place.

Seriously, just asking.

[redqueen]

9. That's up to each woman to decide, based on the circumstances.

My focus is not so much on helping women to deal with these piece of shit assholes, as making sure that people who care about feminist issues understand that they aren't helping when they attempt to minimize them, silence discussions, etc.

[lark]

26. I was a rape counselor eons ago and this is what they told us during training.

Walk with strength of purpose, head high, have your keys out (if walking to car or house) in your hands and carry mace. Ignore the creeps. Avoid dark areas like the plague when you are by yourself. If there's a van with a guy or guys in it next to your car, don't go there. If someone approaches you and tries to get your keys, throw them as far as you can one way and run the other way yelling as loud as you can. Just some general advice.

[question everything]

30. Very sound advice

including to avoid dark areas. Too bad, someone will say that "I have a right to walk anyplace I want, including dark places."

Sure you have a right. And your attacker probably will be found and sent to jail. Too bad you will be dead or seriously injured to derive much satisfaction.

[Sheldon Cooper]

39. I what universe does is the attacker "probably will be found and sent to jail'?

Don't you get that rape is the ONE crime, I'll repeat, the ONE crime, for which "attackers" are routinely set free? In no other crime is the victim blamed to the extent that they let the perp go because hey, she shouldn't have been in that dark alley.

[question everything]

44. In a perfect world?

I probably should have added the "even if." Even if the attacker is caught and sent to jail, if you are dead, or in a coma, this measure of justice won't do you any good.

Sorry.

[pipi_k]

47. About the keys...

I read somewhere that keys can be a pretty good weapon.


Just carry them so that each key is in the space between two fingers, with the notched (keyed) ends sticking out, like claws.

In an emergency, they can be raked across the face or eyes of one's attacker possibly giving you time to get away, and with the added benefit of the attacker being more easily identified.

[hfojvt]

48. holding them in a fist

makes for a sturdier weapon.

One local cop is really big on this self defense stuff, and that was one thing he mentioned.

[lark]

53. Yep, now that you mention it, I remember that part.

It's been 20 years so some of the details were fuzzy.

[closeupready]

7. Steubenville, Tailhook, that poor girl in Texas - this abuse happens

in the US, all the time. K&R

[magical thyme]

8. it's not just in the street.

They will harass you in your own home as well. And you are right, it is especially true if they perceive you as "higher" on the socio-economic scale as they are. They cannot stand to see a "successful" single woman. I'm 60 now and have always been single. There have been incidents through my life -- once I became more successful at work, the "office stalking" started. I've beeen harassed in my home, my property trespassed on, etc. And almost always it is men who are "lower rank" either by their job or their home (renter versus owner, trailer versus house).

Now I expect it. My property has no trespassing signs up and this spring (if it ever comes) I'll be putting up game cameras.

I've stopped not believing it. Now I expect it and am fighting back where I can.

[get the red out]

11. MT

That is just horrible! I hope you are able to fight back against this. I've always seen you as such a good person via DU that I'm outraged you are going through this.

[magical thyme]

13. it's getting better. putting up the signs was a good first step...

I'd put them up years ago and a (female) neighbor tore them down. She's long gone and this time they're being left in place and the neighbor across the street (who thought he was going to buy my property for half price one way or another) is heeding them.

But I'm following through because it's kind of a message to the universe: NO MORE.

But yeah, since starting in about '94 it's been unbelievable.


Good to see you, GTRO

[leftyladyfrommo]

20. You need a "locked and loaded" sign.

I just hate to be bothered when I am out walking. If it's just the neighborhood kids I just stop and yell "hi, how ya doing?" at them. They all know me and I don't want my car egged or something.

Complete strangers, older guys, I just get out of there. Not fair but those guys can get really dangerous.

[redqueen]

12. Good point.

I live in a low income area in an apartment complex, and I used to have a neighbor who would stalk me from my door to my car. It got to the point that I would dread going outside.

[magical thyme]

15. My last 3 years in Mass, a registered sex offender and his gang of thugs

would waiting outside the building door when I got home from work. It was like walking a gauntlet, with them yelling, taunting me with crap. He shoved porn under my door my last Christmas there. At one point, he had a video camera in his living room window trained on my car and a pole with a mirror sticking out his air conditioning duct in the back aimed at my bedroom window. Unfortunately a family member was the complex manager and she destroyed the evidence and then denied it existed. I was able to had the porn to the cops; he had torn his mailing address off one side, but didn't notice that it was addressed to him by name on the other side ("Taking it all off for Robert M. Levine&quot

I had all curtains and blinds shut for 3 years and yes, coming and going were awful. I ended up moving 500+ miles away because the police told me they had a file an inch thick on him and couldn't protect me.

[redqueen]

16. Jesus... that's horrific.

The worst this guy did was follow me way too close, and hang on to my car door, almost leaning in, delaying me when I was trying to leave.

The worst thing in my recent experience was in a public place, with families with young children around. I hesitate to to into detail since last time I mentioned it here I was accused of lying and personally insulted by some very kind and thoughtful fellow DUers.

[magical thyme]

17. sometimes what they do is so unbelievable its hard to discuss

because nobody quite believes it. Or nobody believes it because it's too horrible to think it could happen to them, so it becomes a defense mechanism.

I know I hadn't actually lived it I would have a hard time believing it. I never could could conceive of the behavior of some people. The sleep deprivation was the worst. His unit was adjacent to mine. They used to pound randomly through the night, night after night. It made it very hard for me to function at all...

[redqueen]

21. Yeah, it was hard hearing the standard accusations here.

i.e. 'you're lying' and 'you aren't attractive enough to harass / you must think you're so hot' type of shit

That was really an eye- opening day on DU.

[magical thyme]

23. "you aren't attractive enough to harass?" seriously?!?!

News flash (to them, not you). It's not about sex. It's not about attraction. It's about power.


If you are unattractive, then you just attract the worst of the "losers." Age matters not.

There's no explaining it rationally because the harassers are not rational. They have their own, perverted belief system fed by cultural lies, pornography lies, and their own warped brains.

All they (your critics) need to do is read the occasional horror story about 80 year old women getting raped in their own beds.

They need to feel more powerful than somebody. Our culture portrays women as weak and powerless. When they see a single woman behaving outside of their internal rules, or appearing more powerful than they are, then they need to put her in her place.

[redqueen]

24. Well I don't remember the exact wording...

It was a while ago now. I did try to find it so I could provide exact quotes but no dice. I remember being seriously shocked... something that doesn't happen much anymore.

[get the red out]

41. WOW

What planet does someone come from saying that and considering themselves a "liberal"?

[get the red out]

10. When I was young

I was just thinking back to when I was a young woman in college and how I used to feel so dirty and somehow bad when I would be harassed in the summer for doing something outrageous like riding my bicycle or walking down the street. I look back and wonder why I felt like I had done something wrong by just being where a man could see me and make comments? But I did. No one ever said they shouldn't do that. It really did effect me in a negative way.

This does need to be taken seriously. It is definitely not harmless.

[redqueen]

14. Mr Scorpio posted a thread about a man who ended up being killed trying to defend his daughter

after this guy started ogling her and "making inappropriate gestures"

Ignoring the problem is not helping.

[siligut]

18. Humiliation and shame may be the goal

We know that female sexuality has been the bane of misogynists as far back as recorded history goes.

[get the red out]

32. I never realized that

Until fairly recently in life. I believe it is a goal of people who do this.

[Iris]

38. I know that feeling exactly and this thread brought it back.

The worst was when comments were made by strangers and acquaintances in front of family members.

[get the red out]

40. I came home from College one time

And my Mother and I were in town for some reason. As we walked down the street some disgusting young man screamed horrible sexual comments at me right on main street in the middle of the afternoon in that Appalachian town of 5,000 people because of the dress I was wearing (one of those shirt dresses that were in style back in the 1980's), and I lost it and just screamed back at him "GO TO HELL". My Mother was enraged with ME, and couldn't stop telling me off about what an embarrassment I was to her for yelling at him.

Whenever I think about what I was wearing that day, which wasn't really all that revealing, I feel shame for my appearance. I just realized that, I think about how stupid I was to ever wear that dress and those tights! OMG!

Someone else brought up something about it often being men of perceived lower standing, this guy had probably never gotten out of high school and here I was home from college daring to wear something I got from the mall in a college town. I could just post in this thread forever.

[redqueen]

42. "I could just post in this thread forever."

This is why these issues, which so many dismiss and minimize, matter so much to me. I know how many stories like this that we have to tell. It is my opinion that we are gaslighted by society into discounting our feelings, into accepting that this kind of ubiquitous disrespect and humiliation is unimportant and something we shouldn't complain about. I disagree.

I don't think we will ever be viewed as full human beings deserving of equal representation as long as public abuse and humiliation are accepted as no big deal, rationalized as 'flirtation', or otherwise dismissed.

[Iris]

50. That's a really sad story.

And your conclusion is probably right. I also feel kind of bad for your mom - she probably felt as powerless as you.

[redqueen]

43. I'm so sorry ...

[Iris]

49. Thanks. And it's actually ok.

The power is in making a woman feel isolated. I would never have talked about this when it happened but at least some acknowledge it now and that empowers others who experience this. It's not our fault.

[LuckyLib]

19. I moved in to an apt bldg and began to be

stalked by a guy who lived in the bldg. I'd come home from work to find unwanted gifts outside my door, love notes, flowers, etc. I spoke with manager. "Nothing I can do. " he lived below me, and managers said he had a knife collection and had corked the ceiling so he could practice throwing. I went to police who told me there was nothing they could do, no crime had been committed. I moved out within 30 days of moving in, and of course, could not get back 2mos of deposit $$. As a young 20's working woman, I began to see that this was the way of the world, 1972. Until I was injured or dead, men had the power.

[redqueen]

25. That reminds me of this guy who worked in my building.

He shows up at my desk one day trying to find this woman, cause it was his last day at his job, and he wanted to give her a present. A few other tenants came in with him, all trying to help him find this woman. Cause isn't it so romantic. I didn't know this guy from Adam, and maybe they did but that's beside the point, really cause he had no idea who this woman was.

Didn't know her name, where she worked, nothing. He just saw her in the elevator now and then, and apparently had developed some weird fixation. This guy was asking other people to help him track this woman down. I couldn't believe anyone was doing so. I posted in Facebook about how fucking creepy it was and of course most of the responses were just incredulous about why it was creepy as hell. Sigh.

[get the red out]

33. Yea, the goo old days, sure..

God, this thread is bring up so much for me; being stalked before stalking was a term. Back in the eighties I endured threatening phone calls from an ex-biyfriend every day for months. It never occurred to me to go to university admin or the police; I was never told he couldn't do that to me if he wanted. A male friend that I grew up with was in a fraternity with this guy and he accused me of provoking this guy into doing this, that hurt, I had grown up with this guy in the same neighborhood but it was my fault this guy he barely knew threatened me. Thank heaven's my stalker failed out of college and had to go home, but I didn't even want a phone in my apartment for a long time after that experience.

[leftyladyfrommo]

22. Even the "harmless" stuff is embarrassing.

If the harassment gets to be more than embarrassing can you file a suit against the guys - if you know them and know where they live?

If I thought someone was really dangerous I would probably move, too. Not worth the aggravation.

[redqueen]

27. You can try but

as attested to so many times, until they physically harm you, there's nothing you can do.

[leftyladyfrommo]

35. And who has the money for that?

Our judicial system is a joke. No one has the money to use it.

[Agony]

28. i hollaback

Yes, take it seriously. Street harassment sucks big time. Agony

http://www.ihollaback.org



What is Street Harassment?
Street harassment is a form of sexual harassment that takes place in public spaces. At its core is a power dynamic that constantly reminds historically subordinated groups (women and LGBTQ folks, for example) of their vulnerability to assault in public spaces. Further, it reinforces the ubiquitous sexual objectification of these groups in everyday life.
Street harassment can be sexist, racist, transphobic, homophobic, ableist, sizeist and/or classist. It is an expression of the interlocking and overlapping oppressions we face and it functions as a means to silence our voices and “keep us in our place.”
At Hollaback!, we believe that what specifically counts as street harassment is determined by those who experience it. If you’ve experienced street harassment, we’ve got your back!

Why Hollaback matters:
Dedicated to fighting street harassment, Hollaback! has empowered people in over 70 cities and 24 countries internationally to respond through a smartphone/web application. Users are encouraged to speak up when they see harassment by quickly documenting it in a short post (photo optional) and sharing it to a publicly viewable map. Anyone browsing the stories on the Hollaback! maps immediately understands 3 things:
1) If you’ve been harassed, you’re not alone,
2) Street harassment is used to exert control over others by making them feel scared or uncomfortable. It is much more than individuals just acting inappropriately.
3) There are street harassment “hotspots” in most cities often centered around high pedestrian traffic areas.
Hollaback! provides comfort to those harassed, and proof that street harassment is a serious problem warranting a serious response from policy makers.
- See more at: http://www.ihollaback.org/about/#sthash.P43CxEjT.dpuf

[redqueen]

29. Thanks for the link!

It's good to see women speaking up.

[Eleanors38]

31. Reaching in, pulling out, and aiming your...

Cell phone might be good self-defense. Are there good SD protocols for use of cell phones? I know someone walking or sitting alone while engrossed in some smart phone activity is a clear signal to attackers that a victim is no longer situationally aware, and some SD experts warn against the activity. But why not use the device to good effect?

Good post, Redqueen.

[Warpy]

52. I love that bunch.

Street scum probably don't own computers and are incapable of feeling shame if they did, but it is empowering to women and quite probably some of the men out there who realize their girlfriends and wives are going to be just a little less interested in sex after running a gauntlet of men screaming sexual slurs at them all day.

[Kurovski]

34. K&R. (nt)

[Jesus Malverde]

36. duzy

wolf whistle from a homeless man

[Harmony Blue]

37. Teenage girls used to harrass me all the time

walking home from high school. They were the most popular in school and had their mustangs while I only had a bike.

[ismnotwasm]

45. K&R

[11 Bravo]

46. Agreed. It's not "clever", and I can only guess how frightening it would be to be ...

verbally accosted by a group of larger, stronger (alleged) "men"; never knowing if they would limit their abuse to running off at the mouth. or perhaps escalate to a physical attack. Serious, indeed.

[Brigid]

51. I just give 'em the patented glare I inherited from my mother.

My sisters inherited it too. It's kind of funny when they walk off in a huff. Once in a while men get huffy because I will not talk to strange men on the street or on the bus or whatever, but I don't care. Best to stop trouble before it ever starts.

[stevenleser]

55. ihollaback.org has excellent information on this and what to do if you are harassed or see it.

http://www.ihollaback.org/

One of my favorite episodes of my show was dealing with this topic with guests Amanda Marcotte and Alden Wicker after Alden had been harassed one time too many and took to her blog to talk about it http://ecocult.com/2013/i-get-harassed-almost-every-day/

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lesersense/2013/07/28/making-sense-with-steve-leser--street-harassment-and-more


On Edit, this is ihollaback.org on what to do if you witness street harassment http://www.ihollaback.org/hollaback-guide-to-street-harassment-for-schools/#witness

Direct Action – As a bystander, you can directly intervene when you see a situation of street harassment by confronting the situation head on. For example, you can ask the harasser to stop bothering the person she/he is targeting.

Distraction – A bystander can take an indirect approach to intervening. For example, if you notice someone being harassed, you can approach her/him to ask for directions or say ‘hello’ as if you know them, thus de-escalating that situation.

Delegation – This is when you seek outside assistance to intervene in the situation. For example, a bystander can seek help or assistance from the police, a public transport worker or another outside party on behalf of the victim/target.

Delay – This is when you wait for the situation to pass and you check in with the person who was targeted to make sure that they are okay. Even if you were unable to intervene at the time, checking in later makes a difference to the person who was harassed.

[One_Life_To_Give]

56. Look if you can't

Look if you can't keep your man from shaking his Bermuda Clad Ass, than he gets what he deserves!

&feature=player_embedded
Thanks to gollygee for the original post of this video