Trayvon Martin 911 Calls: Can Voice Recognition Crack the Case?

[Quixote1818]

1 day ago by Peter Pachal

The shooting of Trayvon Martin has ignited passionate responses everywhere, but the only person who knows what really happened the night of the shooting is Martin’s killer, George Zimmerman, and he may be lying.

But there’s one piece of evidence that could be integral in proving Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence: recordings of 911 calls placed by people living close to where the shooting took place.

You can listen to one of the calls below. While the woman who made the call speaks with the dispatcher, someone can be heard screaming in the background, which abruptly stops after a shot is heard. Martin’s family says the screams are Martin pleading for help. Zimmerman says it’s him.

Voice-recognition technology could play a key part in finding out whether or not Zimmerman is telling the truth, and it looks like it will: The Florida state attorney in charge of the Martin case says her team will be hiring a voice-recognition specialist to help with the case.

More at:http://mashable.com/2012/03/26/voice-recognition-trayvon-martin/


I just listened to it again and man does it sound like a teen age boy. NOTHING like a man near 30 years old.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

1. A little too much CSI reruns for that one

You have a mix of very limited audio technology in use. It may come up with something, it may not. Don't count on it being a silver bullet.

Since the PD wanted to charge him that night, the State Attorney needs to answer up as to why Zimmerman is still free.

[99th_Monkey]

5. Maybe the FL State Attorney could go on Lawrence O'Donnell tomorrow and explain

his inexplicable actions, and what his/her relationship is with Zimmerman's dad,
and/or Zimmerman himself.

[Blue_Roses]

6. Different prosecutor

NT

[ProgressiveProfessor]

7. Who has had since Thursday to make that decision and clearly hasn't

[Blue_Roses]

13. This was discussed in another thread

nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. And we still disagree

[Blue_Roses]

16. Time will tell

nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

2. Nnnnnnnnnnope.

No more than videos ad nauseum could convince people that airplanes actually caused the Twin Towers and Building Seven to fall.

Confirmation Bias. Look it up. Voice recognition be damned.

If a "so called" voice expert said HELP! didn't come from Trayvon's throat, there would be cries of cover-ups, witness tampering, buy-offs, and every other means of obfuscation imaginable.

To wit... "does it sound like a teen age boy. NOTHING like a man near 30 years old."

I have a story to tell... and it's going to take a few paragraphs. Bear with me.

My Father and I went fishing when I was in the Navy. He had a trailer that we towed from his home near Moscow, Idaho, to a campground in Northern Idaho. We set up the trailer, and had a wonderful evening after cooking dinner, cleaning up, having a few cocktails, and watching the stars.

Little did I know that when we parked the trailer, my Dad turned on the stereo that was built into the trailer, but due to a loose wire, NO SOUND came from the speakers. He chalked it up to no reception, left the volume turned ALL THE WAY UP, and forgot about it.

We went to bed. At about three in the morning, whatever wire that was loose and kept any white noise from reaching the speakers made its connection.

WHITE NOISE!!!!!!!!!!!! TO AN EXTENT AND AT A VOLUME I'VE NEVER HEARD BEFORE...

My Dad screamed like a little GIRL and to this day he laughs so hard he cries when I describe the events of the night.

He was about 55 at the time. Sounded like a GIRL.

I'd bet MONEY that had his scream when the sound started could NEVER be connected with his regular voice.

[Cali_Democrat]

3. Wishful thinking on your part

I have tremendous confidence in the voice experts. Also, 3 witnesses already claim the screams sounded like a kid's right before the gun shot was fired.

If a jury were to listen to testimony from the voice experts and witnesses and also listen to the tapes, I'm pretty confident they will establish it was Trayvon screaming until the gunshot silences the screams.

[Quixote1818]

4. They also said they could make Zimmerman try to sound that way again

in the same location using the same phone and compare the two. If it was a major difference then they would have a pretty strong idea. At least enough to allow it into the trial. Also, they are more like pleads of help rather than screams. As she said they sound like whining. It's not like someone screaming like a little girl at the top of their voice.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. You mean like "If it don't fit, you MUST acquit?"

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Quixote1818]

12. Don't argue with me, argue with the expert in voice Recognition

who made the statement. Are you an expert in the field which has been peer review tested using probabilities based on tens of thousands of tests?

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. I can't define "vice", but I know it when I see it...

That said...

Were I a juror... "probabilities based on tens of thousands of tests" ISN'T rock solid.

[Quixote1818]

19. What do you base your claim on?

You are just guessing on that. What if an expert says the probabilities are 1000 to 1 that it's one person or the other? Angela Corey who has taken over the case feels it's good enough to be brought in: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7403334n

[cherokeeprogressive]

22. We are BOTH just guessing until a JURY decides the matter.

Once again, I'd point out that I've heard men scream like little girls.

Would you stipulate that neither of us knows what evidence was collected... neither of us knows what information might come to light in the future... so neither of us knows FOR CERTAIN one way or another what happened?

Or are you SO convinced one way or another that you'd be the PERFECT juror in the case should it come to trial, because YOU KNOW FOR SURE WHAT HAPPENED?

[Quixote1818]

23. Of course we are just guessing

I am just throwing out something new and you claim to be more knowledgeable than experts in the field. I am sure Trayvon's parents are glad you won't be on the jury.

[cherokeeprogressive]

26. Well fuck me then... who do YOU think the Martin Family would prefer to serve on the jury...?

See how that works?

"Experts in the field" have NOTHING worthwhile to say until they say their piece in a court of law and have their testimony cross-examined. Agreed? Sort of like peer-review?

[Quixote1818]

29. I do agree 100% with your second statement

It would all depend on how well each side presents their arguments. If there are holes in Voice Recognition then they should be brought out but if the probabilities are backed up in a convincing way then I think they could be quite convincing if the judge allows it. My guess is it can't be any less reliable than eye witness testimony which has put a lot of innocent people on death row over the years.

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. So we agree that it's all just speculation until a jury hears it, if they hear it at all.

Who you gonna believe? Your lyin' eyes...? Or your lyin' ears...?

Bottom line... Zimmerman fucked up. Bottom-bottom line... We don't know all the facts, nor will we, seeing as how one of the only two people who were there isn't going to be speaking up for themselves. It's the worst of all possible situations as far as deciding whether or not a crime was committed goes.

Either way, I think Zimmerman was WRONG... and even then I hesitate to say that because I DON'T KNOW what happened.

[Quixote1818]

38. We agree again

The two most important parts of that evening were not witnessed as far as we know. Without knowing who started the fight and how it ended up in gun fire, we don't have much at all. I think it will be tough to convict on what we now know. However, we do know that witnesses were ignored and they sent a narcotics agent instead of a homicide agent to the scene. That tells me the police were not taking this very seriously and that is what created this mess in the first place.

[cherokeeprogressive]

8. You have "tremendous" confidence until the experts disagree with you.

If you've ever heard a 55 year old man scream like a girl because he thought he was going to die, you might think different.

I've heard that, so I think different.

I'll go so far as to say that if an expert says there is no way to tell, or that it's more likely Z's voice than Trayvon's, you'll claim coverup, even though you're more than willing to go with what your "voice expert" says at this moment.

Should a "voice expert" disagree with you, your concrete confidence in that expert's opinion wouldn't be worth a nickel.

You've made up your mind, without the slightest bit of concrete evidence other than hearsay.

I wouldn't want you on a jury debating my innocence or guilt.

[Cali_Democrat]

15. I'll claim coverup if the voice experts say they think it's Zimmerman screaming?

Poppycock. I think you're projecting. Perhaps you're the one ready to doubt the voice experts because YOU'VE already made up your mind.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. If you don't there will be others that do

People need to quit looking for a silver bullet. Its going to be a totality of the evidence coupled with a dead young man.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. Witnesses are contradictory all the time...and there are some in this case too

Any expert testimony can be rebutted, and I speak from experience in that matter.

I too have heard adult men scream like a 14 year old girl.

Not saying don't do it, but its not going to be what cinches it. It could add to the totality, but its not going to be the silver bullet.

[Blue_Roses]

11. I think the best person to know whether it's Trayvon

is his mother. When she heard the tape she flew out of the room in hysterics.

As a mother, I know my children's screams, cries, and laughter. As a mother, who is constantly listening for your child's every breath (as a baby) in order to make sure they are alright, to their screams of fear, joy, and excitement. For a mother, it's distinct and something that only a mother can hear and know.

Not to say dad's don't recognize it, it's just a mom thing.

Plus, why would an armed man be screaming when he is facing an unarmed man. It stands to reason that the one WITHOUT the gun would be the one doing the screaming.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. Given the frequency limitation of the phone system, the audio quality of 911 recordings

I am not sure such a subjective identification should be allowed. It would make for good courtroom theater.

[Blue_Roses]

35. Yes, subjectivity would be unreliable

and unprofessional if used alone in a court of law. WHICH brings me back to WHY this prosecutor has NOT had time to decide on a charge for an arrest. She is trying to do this objectively and right. That takes time.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

39. The whining over not charging Zimmerman that night was deafening

Then it turns out that the lead investigator did want to charge him and the State Attorney said not to. New State Attorney has had 5 days and a plethora of resources and still does not have him arrested, preferring to go the Grand Jury route which keeps things out of public view and sits on records that would normally be available to the public.

This is getting less and less defensible by the hour.

[CakeGrrl]

20. Exactly. WHY would Zimmerman need to scream when he had the weapon?

And we're expected to believe he got out of his car against the recommendation of the 911 dispatcher and suddenly became the victim in a life-threatening situation enough to scream until his gun saved him?

And Trayvon's last words were supposed to be "You got me" like a villain in some cheesy Western?

Bullshit. I'm tired of this racist's lying bullshit.

One of his 'friends' said early on that he thought 'this would all blow over'. He meant that he thought the Sanford PD would whitewash everything for him.

I won't shed a tear if they find a way to make use of Florida's DP. That would make neighborhoods safer in this case.

[Sulla]

24. Because his weapon was holstered . . .

and he was getting the shit kicked out of him?

Why did Trayvon allow Zimmerman to catch up to him? If he was truly scared, why didn't he just go straight home?

[uppityperson]

28. Trayvon didn't live there. He was visiting his father's girlfriend with his father. Good grief.

[Quixote1818]

30. I agree that your first statement could be true however your second statement doesn't have the facts

behind it. How do you know Zimmerman didn't drive up the street to cut Trayvon off? He did seem pretty dam upset at the idea of Trayvon getting away. SUV's are a lot faster than kids. Zimmerman sounded like a guy who might stop at nothing to prevent Trayvon from leaving the area before the police got there. Also, the two lady witnesses said after the fist fight Trayvon and Zimmerman ended up in their back yard which was closer to Trayvon's fathers girlfriends house than where the fist fight occured meaning Trayvon seemed to be trying to get home.

[Sulla]

42. How does Zimmerman cut him off?

Martin wasn't traveling along a street. He was killed on a sidewalk that ran behind the houses/condos, not far from his father's girlfriend's house. He should have made it home easily.

[Blue_Roses]

31. Have you seen the map

of where he was when he died? Pretty damn close and if truth be told, he was more than likely screaming out to his father or his father's fiancé.

Zimmerman had NO DAMN BUSINESS following him! The mother-fucker GOT OUT OF HIS DAMN CAR...but then he's gonna scream, "he's hitting me, he's hitting me,"...bullshit!

This guy has done nothing but change his story from day-one and I would bet dollars to donuts, his previous charge of assaulting an officer would have stayed as a conviction instead of a whitewash, since his daddy probably pulled some strings.

Now Zimmerman can't depend on dear-old-dad, because dear-old-dad has heard the tapes. He KNOWS his son fucked-up bigtime. Notice: ain't talking now. He can no longer say, "George, would never chase anyone..." since his son is being told by a dispatcher: we don't need you to dI that...". THAT voice on tape is VERY clear.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

33. How do you know what accounts have been given?

Nobody really does except the cops and the state attorney who are currently refusing to charge Zimmerman.

Assuming facts not in evidence is not going to help things.

[Blue_Roses]

37. What accounts are you talking about?

nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. "This guy has done nothing but change his story from day-one..."

in post #31

Facts are that Zimmerman has made no public statements. His attorney has said some vague things and then shut up. Anything he has said to the cops during his interrogation has not been released.

How can anyone legitimately say "This guy has done nothing but change his story from day-one" when his story (original or any version) has not been released?

Not picking on you personally, but the level of bad gouge over this is mind boggling. The bubba who posted the photo map is just unbelievable. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002482227#post14

[Blue_Roses]

41. I read the police report, also

it's public knowledge that his dad wrote a letter to the paper saying, "George did not follow...", and the tapes have proven him wrong. THAT is a fact.

Secondly, George was charged (2005) with interferring with a police arrest of his friend who was selling alcohol to minors. He was also charged with assault on a police officer. I read the police arrest report on this one too.It doesn't matter that he wasn't convicted in a court of law.He still did it because he plea-bargained.

I'm so tired of "doubters" trying to paint this KID with such a broad brush. (And no, I'm not directing this at you) It reeks of racism. It's a tragedy that needs closure--proper,honest closure. These parents can't even mourn their child.

Personal feelings in this matter can easily misconstrue assumptions as fact. As a case worker, believe me when I say, I understand the importance of gathering and assessing information, before stating it as a fact. But we are all frustrated to know what really happened, so this kid will not have died in vain. Emotions are runnig high and there is going to be info tossed around until the facts really seap out. Until then, people have to vent.

[Sulla]

43. Yes, I've seen the map.

It only reinforced my skepticism. With a good head start on the lard-assed Zimmerman and not much distance to cover, I just don't understand how Martin didn't make it home.

[Quixote1818]

25. Just being a devils advocate here

but if Martin did start losing the fight and was getting his head smashed in and began to scream for help then got lose and quickly fired before Martin could come at him again, it's possible. Thats his story anyway though the lady witnesses said the fighting had occured three houses down and they think Zimmerman continued after Trayvon after the fist fight. We will have to see I guess.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

27. My guess is that his story would be something along these lines...

He had broken contact but then Martin turned on him and decked him (the broken nose claim) and then attempted to hit him further on the ground. Meanwhile he was screaming for help from his neighbors. It was then, in fear of great bodily injury, with injuries already sustained, he drew his concealed (and therefore unknown to Martin) weapon and fired once in legitimate self defense.

Not saying I believe it and it looks like the lead investigator did not believe him either and wanted to charge him, but it is consistent with what has been rumored. There is so little hard data that it is really impossible to say. For example, the dialog you state has not been confirmed, though it was today's juicy rumor.

An example one of my suppositions is that Zimmerman carried his weapon in a inside the waistband holster. Typical for warmer climates. Martin, since he was not a pro, would likely not have spotted it.

[Quixote1818]

34. What I want to know was at what location the fight took place and where the shot was fired?

Were they two locations or the same place?

Because if the blond witness is correct and the fist fight took place three houses down, then Zimmerman's screaming because Trayvon was on top of him would no longer fit with the story. They said the fist fight was over and then the two somehow ended up behind their place (where no fist fight occurred) and they heard a child wining then the gun shot.

If that is what happened it sounds like Zimmerman might have been extremely angry (remember he has a history of anger and violence) at getting hit in the face and chased Trayvon down and shot him in anger?

I would like to hear from the two witnesses that saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman and ask them if the killing occured in the same spot or three houses down. That would change everything.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

36. Someone just posted a map

Lots of assumptions and I do not care for their post for other reasons but here it is: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=482787