There comes a point when you are just a money grubbing fuck.

[SmileyRose]

I have worked for 9 different small businesses in my lifetime. This man is by far the most generous to his employees.

I work for a poor little rich guy. If he liquidated he'd have about $17 Million right now. He whines constantly about being poor and means it. He was worth about $38 Million in 2006.

The jackass LOVES "Obamacare". He figured out medical benefits cost him $8600 per each of his 22 employees. Under "Obamacare" he can pay a $2000 fine per employee and walk away with the remaining $6600 per employee no further obligation.

He's convinced himself "letting" his employees use the income he currently pays to also buy medical care benefits from the government plan will give us all better medical care benefits. Now he's already cut all our salaries by 30% and not given a dime back - he wants us to use what's left to buy our own medical care.

$8600 worth a year............ We are going to end up with a pay cut of $8600 a year. That's a 3rd of what he pays me.

I will quit my job. It will actually be cheaper for me to sell off my car and walk to a McJob close to home.

He stood there, looked me in the face, and told me he's excited about the idea of shitting on my life so he can another 6 grand a year to his Millions. He actually thinks he's doing me a favor.

This is why I fought so hard against the Affordable Care Act. This is why I hope they kill it. There is a better way to get the good provisions it contains.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. There are some sick, sick people out there

Sorry that you work for one!

[lacrew]

2. Early on, I pointed out that Employers would just pay the penalty

I was widely mocked.

[Javaman]

13. I had noted that back then as well...

and I stated something a long the lines of "unless the penalty for not providing health care is more than what it costs to provide it, the employer will just not provide it, pay the penalty and laugh all the way to the bank with the cost savings".

And here we are.

[Blue_Tires]

14. +1

[lacrew]

31. And it goes beyond the cost of the premium

We have at least two full time employees, to deal with insurance. Pay the penalty, and these positions are no longer needed.

[Shankapotomus]

35. Then who pays for an employees'

medical care?

[Javaman]

38. Um, what?

did you read my post?

No one pays, that's the problem. businesses and corps skate away with a crappy little fine while having a huge cost savings at the expense of the employee.

if you make a fine larger than the cost of paying for health insurance, then it becomes in the best interest of the business and the corps to provide health insurance. See how it works?

[Shankapotomus]

39. Well, then part of the $2000 per employee penalty

is the employer may lose their employees. They may quit over having to pay their own health insurance. Even if they don't immediately quit, the result is it shows that a weak penalty wont work, which is probably what the President wants, because it further illustrates why even stronger reform is necessary. People just can't go on not being able to afford health insurance either through themselves or an employer. Something's got to give.

[Javaman]

40. Um, okay

I don't know why you are arguing this point. I perfer facts but if you choose to try and imagine what the president is thinking, knock yourself out.

I honestly don't think he was playing "rope-a-dope" with this part of the HCR bill.

But who knows.

[SammyWinstonJack]

3. rec.

[Ilsa]

4. I'm very sorry this has happened to you.

Your boss is a selfish bastard. He has no appreciation for how fortunate he is.

With 22 employees, was he ever required to provide a group health insurance plan? If not, I'm surprised he did it at all.

Single payer for all would certainly make me happy.

[JoePhilly]

9. Businesses with 50 or fewer employees are exempt. The story is BS.

Same story has been sent around in a variety of right wing email BS campaigns.

[FSogol]

17. +1 n/t

[sinkingfeeling]

24. +2

[redqueen]

26. Thank you. I'm surprised to see this with so many recs.

Well, not really.

[SmileyRose]

33. the man may be wrong but calling ME a liar is uncalled for

I have earned better.

[JoePhilly]

37. Don't think I used that word ... did I? Nope.

I said the story is BS.

Now, the reason this is BS could be that you are lying. Or, it could be BS because your boss is an idiot, and is lying to you about his reasons for dropping your health care.

Or ... perhaps you, like many of us, saw this same basic story as it made its way through the right wing email chains.

That's where I first saw it btw. Multiple times in fact. In each case it reads very much the same as what you posted ... some unknown/unnamed small business, small number of employere, and an mean boss who is going to take the fine rather than provide insurance .... all because of that mean Obama.

Here's an idea ... if this is your story, I'm sure you will now go back to your boss and point out that his small business is actually exempt from this provision. And then maybe come back and tell us what his response to that is.

See, here is the problem ... lots of folks read your OP ... clearly it can't be accurate, and so what you helped to do is to get folks on DU to believe that a small business with 22 employees can simply drop their insurance and pay a small fine ... which is false.

[nxylas]

5. Did you mean to say "least generous"?

Or were the other 8 actually worse?

[Quantess]

25. I was wondering that, too.

Sarcasm would only work if we could hear the tone of voice.

[nxylas]

28. Either option sounds plausible to me

In theory, I'm all for supporting small "mom and pop" businesses. In my experience, however, actually working for them is a whole different ball game. Bunch of Randroids in love with their own entrepeneurial spirit who regard their employees as parasites,

[zaj]

6. Why did he wait until Obamacare to screw you?

He could have been saving $8000 per person each year just not offering anything if he didnt give a crap.

[Skinner]

11. Because paying the penalty is his way of sticking it to Obama.

Or something.

You nailed it, BTW. If an employer was already providing health care coverage, it doesn't make sense for that employer to drop that health coverage AFTER Obamacare comes into effect. After all, they were already providing health care, without being forced to do so.

[FSogol]

19. Isn't it strange how many people here REC a thread of obvious RW BS?

[Surya Gayatri]

23. + 1,000,000 !

This "saga" has the definite stench of horse pucky to it...

[ProSense]

27. It's good

that you can see who is recs known RW BS.

I mean, we're all Worldnut Daily now!

[SmileyRose]

34. Again

Posted BECAUSE the man is wrong - and wrong headed - but it points out the viewpoint involved.

Your post is calling me a liar and even the quickest check of my posting history would show I've earned a better response.

[jeff47]

20. Except there's no penalty

The business is too small to be charged a penalty.

[aptal]

41. Yes you are right.

A business owes a free-rider penalty ONLY if it meets two conditions.
 If it has more than 50 full-time employees or full-time equivalents. Each 120 hours
per month of part-time labor counts as a full-time equivalent.
 If one or more of its employees receive premium credits (government subsidies) to
help purchase health insurance in the exchange.

[KG]

7. rec.

ACA just isn't the 'progress' so many deem it to be...

[JoePhilly]

8. Businesses with under 50 employees are exempt. This is a right wing phony email ...

that has been going around. Its total BS.

The Federal law (ACA) exempts employers with fewer than 50 workers. Additionally, under the federal plan, employers pay fines only if their workers qualify for tax credits to buy insurance.

Probably why all of the details in the "story" are vague ... because its BS.

[barbtries]

10. thank you for a voice of reason.

employers offer health insurance because it gets them good, stable employees and they will continue to do so for the same reason.

[ProSense]

15. Exactly, but

consider even this for qualified employers: "Under "Obamacare" he can pay a $2000 fine per employee and walk away with the remaining $6600 per employee no further obligation."

All it takes is one person to disqualify the employer as meeting the requirement. This employer would simply be pushing more people into the government-run exchanges.

Must-read: Summary of Potential Employer Penalties Under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA)
http://www.ncsl.org/documents/health/EmployerPenalties.pdf

[sinkingfeeling]

21. You're correct. Employers with fewer than 50 employees don't play.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/files/documents/health_reform_for_small_businesses.pdf

The law specifically exempts all firms that have fewer
than 50 employees – 96 percent of all firms in the United
States or 5.8 million out of 6 million total firms – from
any employer responsibility requirements.

[Starcruiser]

12. The reality of it all

I am a small employer (8 employees) back in the late 90's under threat of Nationalized Healthcare under Clinton my monthly Health insurance premiums dropped from $185 to $105/month/employee for an HMO mind you, which was twice as good Health Insurance to.. I'm talking no preexisting condition limitations, no dedutibles, no maximuns, no exclusions. Then George Bush got elected Gov of Texas and brougbt it all to an end by tunning the HMO's out of Texas. I was easy, all he did was pass laws that allowed HMO's to be sued for Malpractice...The result was I was driven back into having to buy a tradition plan and he was rewarded with the Office of the President of the United States if our interested in just how important this is to BIG MONEY. To make a long story sort, I now pay $450/mth/employee for a $5,000 freaking deductible loaded with all the exclusions, traps, traditional plans offer..Under an HMO. you see, they can 't raise rates if someone on the plan has a problem.. Unfortunatelyl, under conventional plans they can charge WHATEVER THE %#&@ THEY WANT and they don't have to tell you why, Bush even went on further and let laws get passed banning the insurance co from being able to tell an employer any thing about the claims as in whom is incuring all the hospital cost.

Thus, I too will terminate my Health Insurance immediately upon arrive a National Healthcare. It would be a much better deal for the employees, save me a little money which is just redirecting it from the pockets of the Insurance Industry and the doctors back in mine which means maybe I can give a cost of living raise to everyone. Something I haven't been able to afford in almost 10 years because of rising Health Insurance Premiums.

And as an Insurance agent, who do I feel about National Healthcare ? All I can say is IT'S ABOUT TIME !

[abelenkpe]

16. Your employer is exempt

And clearly a total ass bent on harassing you with misinformation. Did you know that you can fight harassment? If you're unwilling to do that please find work with a company that won't cause you such worries and quit. Good luck!

[SmileyRose]

45. No worries

Actually my medical care benefits are on my husband. I'm not even in the plan at work.

The fact that he's all wrong was the point of my post really. This is the kind of person that makes up the base of the Republican party - this weird circular thinking. I wonder if the downturn has made some of them mental.


Most of them have been with him for 10 years or longer. Times were good, they had good working conditions, he talked like he appreciated their work - handed out raises when appropriate. When it got tough everyone shared the sacrifice.

Now things are clearly getting better and it's become increasingly clear he considers his employees a burden rather than an asset. The true man is coming out and it's not pretty. Nearly all of us are at least looking. He'll end up losing most of his best people. He'll hire new people at even less wages and act like he's doing them a favor.

[Papagoose]

18. My boss has been telling us that he will be pushing to end our health benefits

He figures it's cheaper to pay the penalty too, which I suppose is his prerogative, though I think it's reprehensible.

What is bothering me is that he is also talking of doing this in order to stick it to those of us who support President Obama.

[sinkingfeeling]

22. I would guess that your boss knows nothing about the law. If he has fewer than 50

employees, it doesn't apply to him.

[ieoeja]

29. If your boss employees more than 50 people, he will have to pay a penalty.

Without ACA he could drop your health care without paying a penalty.

So explain to me how making your boss -- assuming he owns a large company -- pay a penalty instead of not paying a penalty gives him an incentive to drop your insurance? This makes absolutely zero sense.

[ProSense]

30. Here

If your boss employees more than 50 people, he will have to pay a penalty.

Without ACA he could drop your health care without paying a penalty.

So explain to me how making your boss -- assuming he owns a large company -- pay a penalty instead of not paying a penalty gives him an incentive to drop your insurance? This makes absolutely zero sense.

All it takes is one person to disqualify the employer as meeting the requirement. This employer would simply be pushing more people into the government-run exchanges.

Must-read: Summary of Potential Employer Penalties Under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA)
http://www.ncsl.org/documents/health/EmployerPenalties.pdf

It provides various scenarios, including "free choice."

[Papagoose]

32. I'm not saying it makes sense

What he is saying is that he doesn't mind providing health insurance voluntarily...but if he is "forced" to, then he objects. Doesn't make much sense at all.

[SmileyRose]

36. Actually with my boss it's even weirder

He's not crediting Obama for the Affordable Care Act. He does call it "Obamacare" but knows this is a Republican idea.

He is a little bit paternal and does want us to have medical insurance - but if he can figure out any way at all to shift the cost to us and somehow justify in his head then he will. ... though I suspect once he finally realizes he can't play the numbers they way he's planning, he'll hate "Obamacare" instead of love it.

[Ikonoklast]

42. To all of the DU'ers that 'Recommended' this steaming load...

You got taken in.

[SmileyRose]

44. How are you?

I haven't been around a whole lot over the last few months so it's been quite some time since you've had the chance to leave a message like this in one of my threads.

Nice to see you and hope all is good with you.

[lapislzi]

43. In defense of small business owners

I hope that my employer is the rule and not the exception, but I doubt it.

The company I work for employs about 35 people. The company pays 100% of our medical insurance coverage. 100%. No matter how many people in your family. Everyone is covered. From the day they start working here.

It is NOT the greatest coverage in the world. The boss knows that and we know that. We have the option to purchase the next tier of coverage out of pocket if we wish. A few do.

And I can be pretty sure after 15 years of being here, that the policy won't change. We'll continue to be covered.

Why? Not because it's "profitable." It sure as hell isn't. But because our employer is a good and decent human being and almost always does the right thing.

I wish there were more like him, and not like the other kind.