Breaking news says Trayvon punched Zimmerman

[Aerows]

He wasn't bleeding profusely from the nose, and didn't have a black eye. I'm relatively tiny, but if I have a reason to punch you in the face, I'm going to knock the hell out of you.

If Tayvon hit him, it certainly wasn't a death defying moment if he has no black eyes, and no bloody nose. It certainly was no reason to bring to bear a weapon.

I'm assuming the people reporting this have never been hit in the face before, and have never studied martial arts.

Just guessing, but getting swatted in the face where it doesn't make your nose bleed is a lame defense for, "I took out my gun and shot him because I was scared." It certainly doesn't justify "I chased him down the street, cornered him, he hit me, then I shot him in self-defense".

[JackintheGreen]

1. Breaking news 5-6 weeks after? Sounds like CYA to me n/t

[movonne]

18. That was breaking news a couple of days ago....

[Go Vols]

43. Breaking news from less than 24 hours after it happened in vid below.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. If a man were chasing me down, and I could punch the hell out of him, you bet I would! nt

[Aerows]

3. I would too!

And that's why this makes me so mad. You are a 17 year old, and some crazy person is chasing you.

You bet I'd knock the hell out of him.

I've seen longtime DUers that claim to be CCW instructers in CA act like this is standard behavior, and it makes me angry.

Nothing about this is SOP in a situation of needing to bring a weapon to bear.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

26. I guess to Repukes depends on the color of the skin. If it's dark, one should be a victim, and if

it's white, one should defend oneself.

[Cleita]

4. Getting a bloody nose and black eye vs. dying from a gunshot wound.

Ya know, that's a no brainer.

[Aerows]

11. A person with a gun is automatically

the authority, didn't you know?

Yeah, I didn't know that either, and neither did this young man that got gunned down on the street.

[savalez]

5. So. The 94 year old lady next door would've punched him too.

[Aerows]

6. She deserves to get shot

Because heaven knows a guy with a gun is the ultimate authority.

[Warpy]

7. Yeah, all the kid new was that some big guy was chasing him through the neighborhood

and he didn't know if that guy was a rapist, a thief, or Klan. Of course when he got caught, he landed a punch, wouldn't you? I sure would. And have.

While I dislike seeing anyone tried in the press, right now it looks like the only place he ever will be tried.

Whatever happens, I want Zimmerman off the street. He's dangerous.

[Aerows]

14. The person shooting the biggest gun is the right one

That's what this story says, and the response of the police department of Sandford has says. Tote a bigger gun, and if you shoot down a 17 year old young man because you feel like it, you can fabricate any story that you with to cook up.

[Starry Messenger]

8. I would have punched him too.

Your brain isn't exactly clear when you're coming home with a snack and some huge creep comes bearing down on you with a gun.

[Aerows]

17. Exactly

Some lunatic chases you down the street with a gun, and you aren't entitled to self-defense? When you had every right to be there, were unarmed and you were assaulted by someone with a gun?

[catbyte]

9. I'm starting to think Zimmerman hurt his own nose from gun recoil

and it knocked him on his ass, thus accounting for the wet, grass-stained back of his shirt. I've been shooting guns since I was 6 years old (dad was a cop & wanted me to know how to handle firearms) and I know that even a handgun can pack a punch when you're distracted. We will probably never know, but how can someone come up from behind and punch you in the nose?!?


Diane
Anishinaabe in MI & mom to Leo, Sophie, Taz & Nigel, Official Members of Dogs Against Romney, Cat Division
"We ride inside--HISS!”

[PotatoChip]

44. My first thought too

when I heard about Zimmerman's "injuries"- which btw, have been variously described as bloody nose, broken nose, cut on head, grass stains on back. It's still not clear to me which of these reports are true, slightly true, or outright lies.

There appears to be a lot of media spin going on in this case. Probably for the purpose of confusing us, the public. It's quite infuriating, but even in the worst case scenario re: the injuries, I fail to see how Trayvon deserved the death penalty. Even if he was responsible for Zimmerman's bloody (or broken) nose.

But getting back to your point- a gun can easily kickback with enough force to break someone's nose with improper handling. Zimmerman may not have had a good grip on it, and may also have been inexperienced. One or both of these factors could easily cause a very forceful recoil.

[magical thyme]

10. let's see. so zimmerman

called the police and reported Trayvon as suspicious.

against police advice followed Trayvon in his car.

caught up with Trayvon and got out of his car.

got close enough to "suspicious-looking" Trayvon to touch him.

and Trayvon inexplicably and without provocation punched the large strange man who was following him in his car, thereby proving Zimmerman's suspicions.

Zimmerman was now standing his ground and justified in shooting and killing the suspicious-looking teen in self-defense.

Right. Nice try; ain't gonna fly. Keep working it media.

[dkf]

12. Is self defense predicated on what outside assessment is or what a person thought?

The problem is that what may be justice in the mind of the populace may not be what the law requires.

[Rex]

22. Well let's see...a man murdered a child

usually you see an arrest in these kind of situations. The law usually requires an arrest in a murder case. Despite what everyone wants to believe, facts are facts. One is dead, the other is alive. The one with the gun, killed the other one. Easy stuff...weird how the local PD got it all wrong. Very strange imo.

[Aerows]

30. More loving "your signature line" again

Let's see dkf pick up a shovel.

I really want to see dkf pick up the shovel and use it this time.

[Rex]

31. It seems a good fit with DU3.

I mean, I could be wrong...maybe police DON'T arrest someone suspected of murdering a child. Maybe they let the murderer go and tell them 'not to do it again'. Somehow I doubt that is how most PDs work, but I could be wrong.

[Aerows]

36. this shit again?

Yep, here we are.

[Aerows]

27. I knew you would show up

And I welcome you in this particular debate.

DKF: I am walking down the street. You pull a gun on me. What should my reaction be?

I know I'm being pedantic, but I want to let us establish the encounter from the get go.

Go!

[Rex]

41. Oh no no no...you are NOT just walking down a street

but some STRANGER is following you with his car! Maybe he wants to ask you for directions or maybe he wants to kidnap you! THEN he gets out of his car, starts yelling at you and decides to close the gap between you and him...what should your reaction be?

[Aerows]

48. This shit again?

That seems like a reaction I'd have.

Silliness aside, I'd pull out my weapon, declare myself able to defend, and see what happened while the inevitable debating over pulling the trigger happened.

[Rex]

49. And now it appears the boy stuggled for the gun

well, keep talking Zimm. I think the story has changed every 12 hours. Man my head hurts (hint), I'm going to go see what new Perry Mason we have in H&M! By now that place is a virtual Scotland Yard!

[TheWraith]

33. Both, sort of.

To use lethal force, the law requires that you have a reasonable belief that it's necessary to prevent imminent death or severe bodily harm to yourself or another. ("Severe bodily harm" meaning here, for example, beating or rape.) The key phrase there is REASONABLE, i.e. that another person in the same situation would have felt the same. Someone coming at you with a knife or telling you they're going to kill you = reasonable. Seeing somebody with something in their pocket looking at you funny = not reasonable.

Put another way, it IS judged somewhat on what the person thought at the time, so it could be legitimately considered self defense if you shoot someone who claims to have a bomb strapped to their chest, only to find out later that they were a psych case with molding clay. However, that's still calibrated against what the average person would believe. That's part of the reason so many self defense shootings end up going to trial anyway, so a jury can judge what they consider to be reasonable or not.

[dkf]

50. In retrospect the alibi Zimmerman gave is a bit too pat. It seems to sew up all the aspects needed

even to the verbalizing of a threat to his life. He is a criminal justice major after all.

I can see why the prosecutor took care to dot his i's. But in the end the evidence will tell the story.

[mysuzuki2]

13. Even 17 year old black kids have a right to self defence and

to "stand your ground".

[CatWoman]

15. where is this "news" breaking from?

[Glimmer of Hope]

19. Probably Joe Oliver.

[CatWoman]

20. ROFL!!

[GopperStopper2680]

16. Getting Hit in the Face is not always all it's cracked up to be.

Last summer my brother slugged me in the face right under my right eye. I didn't even stumble. That's not authorization for use of deadly force. Some people would probably LIKE to shoot you if you hit them like that though..

But anyway there's no evidence that Martin did anything but try to flee. The Right has made this an issue to be swept under the rug and they're trying to make the victim the villain. Typical.

[mainer]

21. How many of us would punch a guy who's 100 pounds heavier?

Seems to me Trayvon would only punch if he was desperate to escape, or was already struggling.

[veganlush]

23. If Zimmerman gets away with this,

the take-away will be the following: If you're a pedophile in Florida (there are apparently lots of them) You can drive around in your car, select a victim, attempt an abduction and throw him/her into your car. If it goes badly and the victim fights back, you can simply shoot him/her and say that they were suspicious and they hit you, you had to shoot them.

[Politicalboi]

24. If Zimmerman EVER felt threatened

He would NEVER be involved in Neighborhood Watch.

[ananda]

25. And this so-called punch has been proven..

.. with evidence?

I doubt it.

[The Magistrate]

28. Just The Latest 'Revelation' Of Zimmerman's Initial Lies To the Police, Ma'am

The tale, in all its full, pulp fiction glory, is that Mr. Martin came up to Zimmerman, said 'You got a problem?' to which Zimmerman replied 'No', whereupon Mr. Martin said 'You do now' and punched Zimmerman in the nose, knocking him to the ground after which Mr. Martin pounced on Zimmerman and for a minute or so repeatedly banged Zimmerman's head against the pavement. Zimmerman then fired his pistol, killing Mr. Martin.

It should not be necessary to dwell at length on what utter crap this wretched exercise in fiction is....

[MrScorpio]

29. Some big assed stranger who chases me down on the street, demanding to know what I'm doing there...

Is asking to get punched by me too.

So I guess the standard for rightfully getting shot has now been lowered to the level of a sucker punch.

How more ridiculous can this get?

[Rex]

32. 'How more ridiculous can this get?'

Just wait...we haven't even arrived at the train station yet! Expect a lot more lies before this is all over.

[Aerows]

37. Again, facepalm, this shit again? n/t

[Rex]

39. At least we have a emoticon for facepalm now!

progress...in a way.

[Aerows]

42. Yep

it's progress. We are just not dragging it forward as quickly as we should. But we do exhibit that we give a damn, just not as much as we are supposed to care for those who do not follow the cause

[Rex]

45. My general use facepalm photo

[Aerows]

46. Woo Hoo!

I love it

[Courtesy Flush]

34. And Bernhard Goetz was really being robbed.

The point is, Zimmerman went out looking to create a situation that would justify his use of force.

[Rex]

35. Sure seems that way. I don't know if he woke up that

day and said, 'boy do I feel like murdering a kid today!' But he did.

[Aerows]

40. I even took an arrow in the knee and know this.

[Aerows]

38. Looks that way

and those who defend him look like they would be glad to go out in his place if they had the stones.

[JDPriestly]

47. How does anyone know this?

What we do know for sure is that Zimmerman called 911, described Trayvon, stated that Trayvon was running and that he was following Trayvon.

We know what witnesses say about what happened after Zimmerman caught up with Trayvon.

Anything Zimmerman said after the 911 call or calls is not likely to be believed by a jury and might never be heard by a jury.