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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:49 AM May 2014

The REAL ASSHOLES are the traitors who lied America into war and still walk free.

The REAL ASSHOLES are the banksters who looted the banks and got bailed out plus paid bonuses for their trouble.

The REAL ASSHOLES are the spies who use their powers to get tabs on every American and make big bucks for their connected cronies at the same time.

The REAL ASSHOLES are the propagandists who run Corporate McPravda to feed America useless drivel while diverting attention from the critical issues.

The REAL ASSHOLES are the rainmakers on Wall Street who run through the revolving door to become watchdogs in Washington and back, all the while sending American jobs overseas and profits back to their patrons, the 1-percent of 1-percent.

Those are the REAL ASSHOLES, not the reporters who told us about them.

167 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The REAL ASSHOLES are the traitors who lied America into war and still walk free. (Original Post) Octafish May 2014 OP
Didn't Greenwald support the Iraq War? baldguy May 2014 #1
Didn't Greenwald call for prosecuting Bush and Cheney? Octafish May 2014 #5
Again, only after he figured out who was signing his paycheck. baldguy May 2014 #11
Just curious - are you referring to Greenwald or Obama? Scuba May 2014 #22
Are you flirting with Teabaggerism by insinuationg *Obama* is an asshole? baldguy May 2014 #98
pathetic (nt) malokvale77 May 2014 #106
Greenwald sycophants certainly are. baldguy May 2014 #108
The Daily Banter as a sorce? Really and pfft. pam4water May 2014 #120
There are a few H2O Man May 2014 #148
As did H. Clinton-Sachs. Which was more significant? nm rhett o rick May 2014 #16
Huh? What Europeans were signing his paycheck in 2006? Luminous Animal May 2014 #32
Didn't Greenwald support the Iraq War? bvar22 May 2014 #59
Unlike Hillary Clinton and John Kerry... JackRiddler May 2014 #69
How do you feel about LBJ's Gulf of Tonkin speech? cherokeeprogressive May 2014 #70
Didn't Hillary support the Iraq War? Kudos to Greewald for uncovering the lies based on sabrina 1 May 2014 #112
Amen!!! 2naSalit May 2014 #2
Repeat Offenders: Why the Big Money goes into the Big Lie Octafish May 2014 #7
^^^this^^^ L0oniX May 2014 #18
Needs to be an OP. Thanks Octafish. Scuba May 2014 #24
Indeed 2naSalit May 2014 #58
Pluuuuuus one! Enthusiast May 2014 #74
US Chamber of Commerce is a confederation of assholes. JEB May 2014 #87
+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - K & R !!! WillyT May 2014 #95
quite a few out there reddread May 2014 #3
''Behold our tough, intrepid, adversarial press corps.'' Octafish May 2014 #9
Greenwald's tweet was also an asshole move. NuclearDem May 2014 #4
Speaking of resources for imperialists and capitalists: Penny Pritzker Octafish May 2014 #13
Yes...."Pennies from Heaven"..indeed. KoKo May 2014 #15
+1 L0oniX May 2014 #17
I know enough to reflexively recoil at anything associated with Wall Street. NuclearDem May 2014 #21
I didn't. Thanks again, Octafish. Scuba May 2014 #26
Oh you are just trying to confuse the issue. "Hate Greenwald, hate Greenwald." rhett o rick May 2014 #28
+1! Enthusiast May 2014 #75
Wow. No, I did not know this. Jackpine Radical May 2014 #103
Maybe taking his tweet out of context, misinterpreting it, and using it as a tool for hate and rhett o rick May 2014 #19
No, Greenwald certainly isn't a problem. NuclearDem May 2014 #25
It wasnt an asshole move if you understand what he was saying. But hatred can cloud judgement. nm rhett o rick May 2014 #31
Exactly! bvar22 May 2014 #60
I think there is a fear of becoming irrelevant. They are like Neville Chamberlain. rhett o rick May 2014 #62
Yes...like Neville Chamberlain...Ostrich with Head in Sand.. KoKo May 2014 #96
"I agree 100% with Greenwald's Tweet." Me too. Enthusiast May 2014 #79
i think Greenwald is not a problem but a solution zeemike May 2014 #33
The problem is that there are those that refuse to support anyone that speaks out to rhett o rick May 2014 #37
And that is well known to psychiatry. zeemike May 2014 #40
They are very good at infiltration. Octafish May 2014 #48
Thanks for the link...that is one I missed. zeemike May 2014 #51
Are you familiar with the book, "The Authoritarians" by Bob Altemeyer? rhett o rick May 2014 #53
No I am not...and thanks for the link zeemike May 2014 #55
I think you are referring to "They Thought They Were Free" by Milton Mayer. nm rhett o rick May 2014 #63
No actually I was thinking of this zeemike May 2014 #73
I am interested. I see Amazon* sells used copies. Current working my way thru Michael Ruppert's, rhett o rick May 2014 #84
It's like the authors were reading DU : GD bobduca May 2014 #133
In the most part IMO it's how children are raised in good ole USofA. rhett o rick May 2014 #136
+1! Enthusiast May 2014 #77
What was the tweet, I haven't kept up on this newthinking May 2014 #46
The guy made the mistake of stating an opinion about the idiocy of war. Octafish May 2014 #66
Indeed, and those assholes appear to be above the law Dragonfli May 2014 #6
Thank you for spelling it out so well, Dragonfli: The government has become most un-democratic. Octafish May 2014 #41
I remember when this site used to oppose war for money. I also had the pleasure Dragonfli May 2014 #83
"I no longer consider this a progressive site, as most of the newbies are anything but" carolinayellowdog May 2014 #126
By design bobduca May 2014 #134
Yeah. nilesobek May 2014 #116
USA,USA father founding May 2014 #8
United States of Aspens Octafish May 2014 #38
Was that a special code? Rosa Luxemburg May 2014 #123
The players were connected in a way not apparent to observers on the ground. Octafish May 2014 #145
Something to do with National security conference in Aspen? Rosa Luxemburg May 2014 #164
If you say so HangOnKids May 2014 #44
Since you mentioned it malokvale77 May 2014 #109
Well said my friend Ichingcarpenter May 2014 #10
The best slave doesn't know he is one. Octafish May 2014 #57
I remember that book! Read it shortly after it came out. RufusTFirefly May 2014 #104
You mad bro? MohRokTah May 2014 #12
You better believe it, Dude. Octafish May 2014 #14
LOL!!!!! HangOnKids May 2014 #45
You noticed that too? Puglover May 2014 #135
Pretzels are a great energy food. QC May 2014 #149
Our oligarch overlords would love us to fight about Greenwald instead of addressing the bigger rhett o rick May 2014 #20
This entire thread is about Glenn Greenwald. MohRokTah May 2014 #27
That's exactly my point. Why spend so much time hating Greenwald? nm rhett o rick May 2014 #29
BEcause an asshole gets a lot of thread space here? MohRokTah May 2014 #30
The point of the OP is that in the scope of things, if he is an asshole, he is way down rhett o rick May 2014 #34
I didn't get that from the OP. MohRokTah May 2014 #35
Ah yes of course. It's so very important to keep the spotlight on him and away from other issues rhett o rick May 2014 #54
No No we have to focus on Bengazi stupid.. that's what the Repugs want the focus on, right? YOHABLO May 2014 #99
Good point. The Repugs want us to focus on Bengazi while the Blue Dogs want us to focus rhett o rick May 2014 #137
LOL LiberalLovinLug May 2014 #71
Yeah, I noticed you have a tendency to see things that aren't there and put Dragonfli May 2014 #88
Really. Let's try an exercise. Pholus May 2014 #102
A lack of answer is also illuminating. nm rhett o rick May 2014 #138
Indeed. Sometimes it is better to remain silent, Pholus May 2014 #151
I think you don't know the poster of the OP (nt) malokvale77 May 2014 #113
Are you the Owner of this Site..? What gives YOU the right to decide what gets posted KoKo May 2014 #97
"BEcause an asshole gets a lot of thread space here?" malokvale77 May 2014 #118
If lies were not being told about Greenwald there would still be Greenwald threads on Democratic sabrina 1 May 2014 #114
I dont think the Greenwald haters recognize that they are not liberals. Just sayin. rhett o rick May 2014 #152
Could be. Maybe there needs to be a declaration from the Dem Party as to who actually sabrina 1 May 2014 #153
Ding ding ding Jesus Malverde May 2014 #23
It's weird to see DUers cutting down the cornerstone of Democracy - the Free Press. Octafish May 2014 #61
"It's weird to see DUers cutting down the cornerstone of Democracy - the Free Press." malokvale77 May 2014 #115
I was told the other day on DU that I have been misinterpreting the 4th Amendment, and I presume sabrina 1 May 2014 #154
All this energy on messengers and each other. randys1 May 2014 #36
Greenwald: 4 points about the 1971 FBI break-in Octafish May 2014 #49
Greenwald aside smallcat88 May 2014 #39
Edward Snowden and the Real Issues Octafish May 2014 #68
Thanks for the link smallcat88 May 2014 #93
And they are still looking for more wars malaise May 2014 #42
^^^ THIS! ^^^ SomeGuyInEagan May 2014 #56
Lunch with the Chairman Octafish May 2014 #80
I wish that those c/o Greenwald were as upset at what he and Snowden exposed. Dustlawyer May 2014 #43
It could lead one to believe that they actually approve of those, which is why they focus on GG & ES Electric Monk May 2014 #67
More cats vs. Know your BFEE Octafish May 2014 #82
Thank you, that is the kinds of stuff I am talking about! Dustlawyer May 2014 #147
K&R n/t whatchamacallit May 2014 #47
WHIG (White House Iraq Group) made phony case for Iraq War Octafish May 2014 #140
Greenwald isn't part of the club...he reports on it. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2014 #50
Like Carter, who apparently isn't welcome in the club neither... Pholus May 2014 #101
I'll take Carter anyday malokvale77 May 2014 #117
Believe It Or Not Jimmy Carter Is The Most Threatened Ex-President in US History Octafish May 2014 #156
I did not know this malokvale77 May 2014 #166
Quite a club it is... Octafish May 2014 #141
HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT May 2014 #52
Vietnam and Iraq Wars Started by Same People Octafish May 2014 #142
K & R Liberal_Dog May 2014 #64
What kind of a person would want a war? Octafish May 2014 #143
Kick to find later so I can figure out WTF happened hootinholler May 2014 #65
More smear job. Octafish May 2014 #146
K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast May 2014 #72
I posted a reply here over an hour ago but it never showed up. lpbk2713 May 2014 #76
I had a missing post too. Enthusiast May 2014 #78
Post removed Post removed May 2014 #81
Fuck 'em all! AAO May 2014 #85
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #86
Speaking of corporate mcpravda Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2014 #89
Television, the Drug of a Nation, Breeding Ignorance and Feeding Radiation. Octafish May 2014 #162
Shining lights on sphincters Fairgo May 2014 #90
Nonsense. Perception is reality. MannyGoldstein May 2014 #91
K&R. marmar May 2014 #111
It's time to open it all up again. grasswire May 2014 #92
But the Reporters are just so EASY to Discount and not the Policy Makers KoKo May 2014 #94
Always happy to K&R an Octafish thread n/t Oilwellian May 2014 #100
Me too. Cleita May 2014 #105
Don't be discouraged. Puglover May 2014 #144
second that. nt navarth May 2014 #107
K&R...For the Assholes Armstead May 2014 #110
kick scarletwoman May 2014 #119
Kick again - for the REAL assholes. scarletwoman May 2014 #121
Yes ... slipslidingaway May 2014 #122
The bill to bail out the banks was passed by a Democratic majority after Obama ... slipslidingaway May 2014 #124
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #125
Excellent post! Enthusiast May 2014 #127
Is ASSHOLE some euphemism for CRIMINAL? Just asking. The language seems a bit soft to me. ancianita May 2014 #128
Well, given that we decided not to prosecute any of the OP "Assholes" Pholus May 2014 #129
I think Blankfein said that you can't prosecute stupidity, in so many words. Proving intent is THE ancianita May 2014 #130
Huh. I was raised on "Ignorance is no defense" and for the "unwashed masses" that is true... Pholus May 2014 #132
Several DUers routinely apply it to journalists and whistleblowers, rather than to criminals. Octafish May 2014 #155
Amazing that we need this review of real criminal history, but we do, Octafish... MrMickeysMom May 2014 #161
Thank you! DU lesson learned. ancianita May 2014 #163
Couldn't agree more… Loved this response tweet to asshole Wonkette... MrMickeysMom May 2014 #131
K & R GoneFishin May 2014 #139
kick XRubicon May 2014 #150
the REAL ASSHOLES are the torturers. those who put torture into american's mainstream spanone May 2014 #157
American Torturers are REAL ASSHOLES. Octafish May 2014 #160
Great thread. Big Kick!! (eom) CanSocDem May 2014 #158
Don't forget the REAL ASSHOLES... 99Forever May 2014 #159
K & R for some real DU education! ancianita May 2014 #165
Preach it!!!! Initech May 2014 #167
 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
1. Didn't Greenwald support the Iraq War?
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:55 AM
May 2014

Why, yes he did.

At least, until he realized the Europeans that signed his paycheck didn't.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
5. Didn't Greenwald call for prosecuting Bush and Cheney?
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:09 AM
May 2014

Why, yes he did.

Which is why Obama's refusal to look back and prosecute treason is so puzzling.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
11. Again, only after he figured out who was signing his paycheck.
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:34 AM
May 2014

Just because it took him so long doesn't stop him from being one of the assholes described in the OP.

Or are you trying to redefine the term?

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
59. Didn't Greenwald support the Iraq War?
Fri May 9, 2014, 01:40 PM
May 2014

Yes.
He agreed 100% with Hillary and the Democratic Party leadership.
Are you going to attack them/her too?

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
70. How do you feel about LBJ's Gulf of Tonkin speech?
Fri May 9, 2014, 04:07 PM
May 2014

Could that be characterized as lying the country into war - considering the way Congress reacted to it, and what he had to say about the incident years later?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
112. Didn't Hillary support the Iraq War? Kudos to Greewald for uncovering the lies based on
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:14 PM
May 2014

which over 70% of Americans initially supported that war. Once he found out we were lied to, he wrote about it, exposed the lies and spent the rest of Bush's administration slamming those war criminals. For his trouble he was hated by the Far Right Bushbots and still is.

Hillary otoh, voted for it, she voted to fund it, even after the truth was revealed she never retracted her support for it.

Greenwald wrote about his initial support for the war in his book. Didn'y you know that since it has been discussed here over and over again with links etc.

Did you think you revealing something that we didn't know, or just spreading one of the smears, there are about six of them, unintentionally? You wouldn't know this had GREENWALD HIMSELF NOT TOLD US!

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
7. Repeat Offenders: Why the Big Money goes into the Big Lie
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:17 AM
May 2014

It's not just busting unions and busting the Democrats -- at least the ones interested in justice. The Big Money Boys want to bust Democracy itself.



Here's the plan they spelled out, by a lawyer for Big Tobacco soon-to-turn Supreme Court justice:



The Lewis Powell Memo - Corporate Blueprint to Dominate Democracy

Greenpeace has the full text of the Lewis Powell Memo available for review, as well as analyses of how Lewis Powell's suggestions have impacted the realms of politics, judicial law, communications and education.

Blogpost by Charlie Cray - August 23, 2011 at 11:20
Greenpeace.org

Forty years ago today, on August 23, 1971, Justice Lewis F. Powell, Jr., an attorney from Richmond, Virginia, drafted a confidential memorandum for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce that describes a strategy for the corporate takeover of the dominant public institutions of American society.

Powell and his friend Eugene Sydnor, then-chairman of the Chamber’s education committee, believed the Chamber had to transform itself from a passive business group into a powerful political force capable of taking on what Powell described as a major ongoing “attack on the American free enterprise system.”

An astute observer of the business community and broader social trends, Powell was a former president of the American Bar Association and a board member of tobacco giant Philip Morris and other companies. In his memo, he detailed a series of possible “avenues of action” that the Chamber and the broader business community should take in response to fierce criticism in the media, campus-based protests, and new consumer and environmental laws.

SNIP...

The overall tone of Powell’s memo reflected a widespread sense of crisis among elites in the business and political communities. “No thoughtful person can question that the American economic system is under broad attack,” he suggested, adding that the attacks were not coming just from a few “extremists of the left,” but also – and most alarmingly -- from “perfectly respectable elements of society,” including leading intellectuals, the media, and politicians.

To meet the challenge, business leaders would have to first recognize the severity of the crisis, and begin marshalling their resources to influence prominent institutions of public opinion and political power -- especially the universities, the media and the courts. The memo emphasized the importance of education, values, and movement-building. Corporations had to reshape the political debate, organize speakers’ bureaus and keep television programs under “constant surveillance.” Most importantly, business needed to recognize that political power must be “assiduously cultivated; and that when necessary, it must be used aggressively and with determination – without embarrassment and without the reluctance which has been so characteristic of American business.”

CONTINUED...

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/news-and-blogs/campaign-blog/the-lewis-powell-memo-corporate-blueprint-to-/blog/36466/



In the process, their greed and lies work to destroy the planet, let alone peace and prosperity. Also helps explain the, uh, uncertainty on the part of so many these days as to what's true and what matters.

2naSalit

(86,622 posts)
58. Indeed
Fri May 9, 2014, 01:36 PM
May 2014

that's their intent. For some of us it became clear over a decade ago... but we were just lowly CT enthusiasts then.

And I say that as I sit here losing money I could be making waiting for clearance to work at a mediocre level (pay-wise) job but it seems that my student loan problem will keep me from ever having a ob that will afford me the luxury of paying it back. Which is how it became a problem in the first place... timing (9/11) happened 30 days after the hood was wrapped around my neck, been financially f*cked ever since, no matter how hard I try to climb out of the hole for which I can no longer see the rim. Catch22 clearly designed for those of us who sought to be a part of our democracy in the middle class. Now it looks like poverty will be my life-long legacy.

We are being oppressed, held down with a boot on our necks, until we either suffocate or just give it up and blow our own brains out, and if that doesn't work there's pollution for those who prefer a slow, painful demise (won't go quietly).

Apparently that is the choice we are offered.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
9. ''Behold our tough, intrepid, adversarial press corps.''
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:27 AM
May 2014
From when Greenwald wrote for Salon.com:

The Journalistic Mind

EXCERPT...

If there’s an afterlife, I feel sorry for the American Founders: imagine how they must feel looking down on all of this, thinking about all the work they did to enact a First Amendment to protect press freedoms, and wondering why they bothered. And I wonder what these “journalists” did to make them believe that the presidential campaign they cover “owes them”? Actual journalists think that their “careers will be made” if they expose serious wrongdoing on the part of those in power; these people think their careers will be made if they get to run in front of an MSNBC or CNN camera and announce Mitt Romney’s Vice Presidential pick 11 seconds before everyone else announces it (what Jay Rosen derides as an “ego scoop”). The latter view about what is career-making is probably more accurate than the former, which explains most everything.

UPDATE (Thurs.): I was unaware when I made my observation about the Founders that John Adams closed a 1777 letter to his wife Abigail with this thought:

Posterity! You will never know how much it cost the present generation to preserve your freedom! I hope you will make a good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven that I ever took half the pains to preserve it.


If Heaven had the misfortune of subscribing to Time (or, more likely, receiving it for free as a consolation prize for a failed sweepstakes entry), then a moment of silence is warranted to lament Adams’ pain. Then again, if Adams has access to Time in the afterlife, then he’s most certainly not in Heaven.
 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
4. Greenwald's tweet was also an asshole move.
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:08 AM
May 2014

Oddly enough, this doesn't change the fact that imperialists and capitalists are assholes too.

Assholery is not a finite resource.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
13. Speaking of resources for imperialists and capitalists: Penny Pritzker
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:37 AM
May 2014

Greg Palast must be an, uh, irritant to those who have something to hide.



Larry Summers: Goldman Sacked

Monday, September 16, 2013

EXCERPT...

"If you want to know why Obama would choose such a grifter and gamer to head the Fed, you have to ask, Who picked Obama? Ten years ago, Barry Obama was a nothing, a State Senator from the South Side of Chicago.

"But then, he got lucky. A local bank, Superior, was shut down by regulators for mortgage shenanigans ripping off Black folk. The bank’s Chairwoman, Penny Pritzker was so angry at regulators, she decided to eliminate them: and that required a new President.

"The billionaires connected Obama to Jamie Dimon of J.P. Morgan, but most importantly to Robert Rubin, former Treasury Secretary, but most important, former CEO of Goldman Sachs and mentor of Larry Summers. Without Rubin’s blessing and overwhelming fundraising power, Obama would still be arguing over zoning on Halsted Street.

"Rubin picked Obama and Obama picks whom Rubin picks for him.

"Because, in the end, Obama knows he must choose a Fed chief based on the answer to one question: What would Goldman think?"

CONTINUED...

http://www.gregpalast.com/larry-summers-goldman-sacked/



Did you know any of that, NuclearDem? It's not a rhetorical put-down: Most people I know, here in Detroit, don't. It's not on tee vee.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
15. Yes...."Pennies from Heaven"..indeed.
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:46 AM
May 2014

The true story of our "Secretary of Commerce" or "Miss TPP"....another good read...(as you already know) 's

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
28. Oh you are just trying to confuse the issue. "Hate Greenwald, hate Greenwald."
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:13 AM
May 2014

That's much easier. Tomorrow it will be "Hate Snowden, hate Snowden." Never any hate toward the oligarch-overlords. I think they believe Blaise Pascal's Wager applies to politics.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
103. Wow. No, I did not know this.
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:16 PM
May 2014

But I found some more interesting tidbits.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/whitehouse/four-things-to-know-about-penny-pritzker-a-billionaire-and-obama-s-commerce-secretary-pick-20130306



By Matt Vasilogambros

Follow on Twitter

March 6, 2013

President Obama nominated Chicago mogul and longtime friend Penny Pritzker for Commerce secretary. Here’s what you need to know about her:

1) She’s a longtime supporter of the president. Pritzker, 54, first met President Obama and his wife, Michelle, at a Chicago YMCA in the early 1990s while her children were playing basketball and Michelle Obama’s brother, Craig Robinson, was coaching. Since then, she has been an important supporter and has helped raise millions of dollars for his political campaigns since he ran for the Senate in 2004. During Obama's 2008 White House run, Pritzker served as the national chairwoman of his campaign finance team, which shattered fundraising records. Although she wasn’t as active in the 2012 reelection effort, she was a top bundler, bringing in more than $500,000. She also served on the two White House economic advisory panels during Obama's first term.

2) She was a contender for Commerce secretary before. After Obama won the presidential election in 2008, Pritzker was looked at as a possible nominee for Commerce secretary. She took her name out of consideration because of financial obligations to her family. In recent years, the Pritzker family has made headlines for internal disputes over the $19 billion fortune split among 11 cousins, which was just resolved in 2011. Pritzker was still involved in this dispute in 2008, which prevented her from taking a Cabinet position in the Obama administration. When she announced that she was taking her name out of consideration, she said she could “best serve our nation in my current capacity: building businesses, creating jobs, and working to strengthen our economy.”

Even if she got the nod for the position, she might have had a difficult confirmation process. She helped oversee and run a bank in Illinois that was involved in the controversial practice of turning subprime mortgage loans into securities. After the bank collapsed in 2001, the Pritzker family agreed to pay the federal government $460 million over 15 years in fines.
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
19. Maybe taking his tweet out of context, misinterpreting it, and using it as a tool for hate and
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:03 AM
May 2014

diversion is similar move. The OP is trying to say that we need to keep things in perspective. We have a lot of problems and Greenwald isnt in the top 20.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
25. No, Greenwald certainly isn't a problem.
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:10 AM
May 2014

All I'm saying is that there are legitimate reasons to be upset about it, and not every negative attack on Greenwald is an attempt by TPTB to shut him down. Sometimes he just says the right thing at the boneheadedly wrong time and it rubs people the wrong way.

It was an asshole move, but I'm over it and moving on. We do have bigger fish to fry than a single tweet.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
60. Exactly!
Fri May 9, 2014, 01:51 PM
May 2014

Everyone who passed High School English understands his tweet.

[font size=3] "The ability to ignore virtually all history when advocating for the next Western Intervention is as impressive as it is horrifying."
[/font]

I agree 100% with Greenwald's Tweet.
I can understand if some, blinded by their ODS, misread his Tweet,
and Knee Jerked into a condemnation,
but their mistake has been exposed.
There is no need to cling to an exposed mistake,
but some feel the need to now willfully cling to this distortion in order to justify their daily Two Minutes of Hate.
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
62. I think there is a fear of becoming irrelevant. They are like Neville Chamberlain.
Fri May 9, 2014, 02:25 PM
May 2014

They dont want to acknowledge the class war exists. They cling to the illusion that this is all a dream and it they dont make waves maybe the overlords will look favorably on them. They refuse to believe that there are really only two sides in the war and no safe middle of the road island. At some point the Blue Dog will become completely irrelevant.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
96. Yes...like Neville Chamberlain...Ostrich with Head in Sand..
Fri May 9, 2014, 08:05 PM
May 2014

Only defense I've found of Chamberlain is that he had remaining angst in his hear over the Deaths of so many British Soldiers lost in WWI and couldn't think that so soon the British would be back in another war with so much cost to life.

But...yes..."Ostriches in Sand".....well..can go both ways.

But...Agree with you.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
33. i think Greenwald is not a problem but a solution
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:22 AM
May 2014

We need more who don't mind telling the truth despite the hate they will receive from those that don't want to hear it.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
37. The problem is that there are those that refuse to support anyone that speaks out to
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:28 AM
May 2014

authority. People that speak out to authority and refuse to conform, are perfect for self-righteous bullying. They are different. Those that hate whistle-blowers and protestors find comfort in conformity.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
51. Thanks for the link...that is one I missed.
Fri May 9, 2014, 12:19 PM
May 2014

But no surprise here...they have been doing it against peace activist as long as I can remember.
And I am sure DU is no different.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
53. Are you familiar with the book, "The Authoritarians" by Bob Altemeyer?
Fri May 9, 2014, 12:34 PM
May 2014

It's free on the internetz here, http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf for free. Also available to purchase.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
55. No I am not...and thanks for the link
Fri May 9, 2014, 12:54 PM
May 2014

I will bookmark it and read it later.
But long ago I read one on the experiment that they did in the 50s...can't remember the name of the book...and it went into detail about it trying to understand why the Nazis could lead people into the horror they did...you probably know about it.

And it seems to be making a comeback in the USA.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
73. No actually I was thinking of this
Fri May 9, 2014, 04:52 PM
May 2014

But did not remember that the title was that obvious...

The Authoritarian Personality is a 1950 sociology book by Theodor W. Adorno, Else Frenkel-Brunswik, Daniel Levinson, and Nevitt Sanford, researchers working at the University of California, Berkeley, during and shortly after World War II.

The Authoritarian Personality "invented a set of criteria by which to define personality traits, ranked these traits and their intensity in any given person on what it called the 'F scale' (F for fascist)."[1] The personality type Adorno et al. identified can be defined by nine traits that were believed to cluster together as the result of childhood experiences. These traits include conventionalism, authoritarian submission, authoritarian aggression, anti-intellectualism, anti-intraception, superstition and stereotypy, power and "toughness", destructiveness and cynicism, projectivity, and exaggerated concerns over sex.[2][3]

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
84. I am interested. I see Amazon* sells used copies. Current working my way thru Michael Ruppert's,
Fri May 9, 2014, 05:44 PM
May 2014

"Crossing the Rubicon"

*be sure to use smile.amazon.com and Amazon will donate to your fav charity.

bobduca

(1,763 posts)
133. It's like the authors were reading DU : GD
Sat May 10, 2014, 08:51 AM
May 2014

"Conventionalism, authoritarian submission, authoritarian aggression, anti-intellectualism, anti-intraception, superstition and stereotypy, power and "toughness", destructiveness and cynicism, projectivity, and exaggerated concerns over sex!"

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
136. In the most part IMO it's how children are raised in good ole USofA.
Sat May 10, 2014, 09:03 AM
May 2014

In some contexts it's necessary for a strong authoritarian leadership. For children, for the military, and to a certain degree in elementary school. But starting in high school we, as a society, need to teach that one should have an open mind and be skeptical, esp of those claiming to be almighty leaders. Some religious leaders are especially bad at demanding faith in their leadership. Politicians do this also. Many forget that the whole idea of a Democratically run Republic is that we are responsible for our representatives. Some feel that once you elect a guy or gal with a white hat, you can go back to watching "Dancing with the Has-been Stars."

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
46. What was the tweet, I haven't kept up on this
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:57 AM
May 2014

I appreciate in general what he does, but he does have a tendency to let his "mouth" run him into trouble.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
66. The guy made the mistake of stating an opinion about the idiocy of war.
Fri May 9, 2014, 03:40 PM
May 2014

Because he didn't point out concern for the schoolgirls first, it's given his detractors an excuse to pile on.



DETAILS:

http://wonkette.com/548653/youll-never-believe-which-inhuman-monster-doesnt-care-to-find-nigerian-schoolgirls-its-glenn-greenwald#cLPrj69kA2UOBBS6.99

Going from his record as a journalist, I thought it didn't need mentioning that Greenwald is concerned about the schoolgirls.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
6. Indeed, and those assholes appear to be above the law
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:10 AM
May 2014
Sure, you can go to prison for stealing food if you are a serf, you can go to prison for growing a plant even. But the rule of law only applies to peasants. If you are a high government official, a thug doing their dirty work (rape, murder, torture, kidnapping, anything really) or are a billionaire that profits those in high public office (stealing billions in money or real estate, killing people by denying procedures and medicines as the "gatekeepers of health", or imprisoning people for the sake of profit) you are above the law, the law simply doesn't apply to you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024852198

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
41. Thank you for spelling it out so well, Dragonfli: The government has become most un-democratic.
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:47 AM
May 2014

It was never perfect, but Washington never was so skewed toward welfare for the wealthy before. Now the rich and the super-rich have two major political parties supporting their interests, from Trickle Down to the Department for Just-Us to the wars without end for profit.

The little turd from Crawford, before many of those "called upon" to ask questions at the scripted press conference the night before the illegal, immoral, unnecessary and disastrous war on Iraq 2, said "Money trumps peace." Then he laughed. And not even one member of the White House press corpse had the integrity to ask him what he meant.



Happened on Feb. 14, 2007. The great Cindy Sheehan tried to bring it to our nation's attention, but, again, the press was too busy to wonder how money could be more important than peace, let alone prosperity or justice or democracy.

As for where Dim Son received his wisdom, the tree: Poppy Bush Sr told the FBI he was in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
83. I remember when this site used to oppose war for money. I also had the pleasure
Fri May 9, 2014, 05:32 PM
May 2014

of working with Cindy Sheehan and Bruce Beyer (of the Buffalo Nine) to both oppose the war and to help veterans that Needed to be sheltered in Canada to avoid severe punishment for their objection to killing/dying for the bottom line of the .01%.

Peace Has No Borders was an event that was to start in Buffalo with speakers and entertainment at Klienhans the first day and then we were all going to walk across the Peace Bridge together in unity for the second part of the event in Canada where wanted veterans and Cindy would speak.

It turned out better than expected as Bruce apparently was on friendly terms with Pete Seeger who gave a surprise performance after Ann Wright spoke. The Pigs resisted us of course, stating flatly that we no longer had the right to walk across the border, (even though such was never illegal), they were also prepared for us as everyone that looked even remotely like a hippy or soldier was detained at the border and had their vehicles searched, they kept Cindy there for 4 hours for no reason at all. I was lucky, I rode across and so was only detained for two hours (although why it took two hours to search a bicycle was beyond me.)

Cindy was great, the soldiers all huddled around her protectively and lovingly, she really has a tangible presence, and her eyes spoke a sadness mixed with compassion that was disarming.

I posted about it here, back then we had Democrats here that were behind Cindy, now there are a great many conservatives that hate her as much as they do the whistleblowers.

I no longer consider this country a Republic (because it no longer is) and I no longer consider this a progressive site, as most of the newbies are anything but.

carolinayellowdog

(3,247 posts)
126. "I no longer consider this a progressive site, as most of the newbies are anything but"
Sat May 10, 2014, 06:12 AM
May 2014

And yet the number of recs for their silly Greenwald-bashing thread isn't 1/5 of those for this one. Let's face it-- America is ruled by the 1% and so is DU.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
38. United States of Aspens
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:37 AM
May 2014

"Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning," Mr. Libby wrote. "They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them."

http://warisacrime.org/node/3677

Scooter got a pardon. Judy got a new job. How's Gov. Siegelman doing these days?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
145. The players were connected in a way not apparent to observers on the ground.
Sat May 10, 2014, 10:49 AM
May 2014

At root-level.



Last Plamegate Worry for Bush-Cheney

It’s a well-worn talking point for George W. Bush’s supporters to say there was no underlying crime beneath former White House aide I. Lewis Libby’s conviction for obstructing justice, a debatable point itself. But the evidence is clear there was a larger cover-up conspiracy – and it could still unravel.

By Robert Parry
ConsortiumNews, June 6, 2007

Signaling the Conspirators

Beyond the Plame leak itself, a strong case could be made that the President and Vice President sought to mislead federal investigators and the public. On Sept. 30, 2003, Bush declared that anyone who knew anything about the leak should speak up, even as he was concealing the fact that he had authorized parts of the anti-Wilson campaign.

“If there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is,” Bush said. “I want to know the truth. If anybody has got any information inside our administration or outside our administration, it would be helpful if they came forward with the information so we can find out whether or not these allegations are true.”

Since Bush himself was withholding key information, Bush’s statement could be read as a signal to subordinates to hang tough and deny knowledge, anticipating that the inquiry – then under the control of Attorney General John Ashcroft – would peter out.

In early October, Cheney wrote a memo to the White House press office demanding that a statement be issued clearing Libby of a role in the Plame leak as had already been done for other White House officials, such as Bush’s political adviser Karl Rove.

“Not going to protect one staffer + sacrifice the guy the Pres that was asked to stick his head in the meat grinder because of incompetence of others,” Cheney wrote. In the memo, the Vice President initially ascribed Libby’s sacrifice to Bush but then crossed out “the Pres” and put the clause in a passive tense.

On Oct. 4, 2003, pursuant to Cheney’s memo, White House press secretary Scott McClellan added Libby to the list of officials who have “assured me that they were not involved in this.”

There was also a larger context to the cover-up. In fall 2003, the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and the Washington press corps had been easily deceived about the Iraq invasion. So, the administration had reason to be confident that the cover-up would hold – as long as the Justice Department played ball.

But Attorney General Ashcroft threw the White House a curve when he recused himself and let Deputy Attorney General James Comey pick a special prosecutor outside the administration’s direct control. Comey chose Chicago U.S. Attorney Fitzgerald, known as a no-nonsense prosecutor with a record of pursuing public corruption cases.

Suddenly, Libby and other senior officials were facing sterner FBI questioning. Still, instead of admitting a role in leaking Plame’s identity, Libby stuck to his denials, concocting a story that he had learned about Plame’s CIA work from NBC’s Tim Russert.

Libby apparently still hoped that his allies in the mainstream news media, particularly New York Times reporter Judy Miller, would shield him from the truth. Indeed, Miller went to jail for 85 days instead of divulging what her source, Libby, had revealed about Plame’s identity.

Under pressure in 2005, however, Libby released Miller from her pledge of confidentiality but phrased his letter in a way that suggested she should stick with the team.

“Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning,” Libby wrote. “They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them.”

But Libby’s bid failed. With testimony from Miller and others, Fitzgerald built an ironclad case that Libby had lied to investigators and obstructed justice.

CONTINUED...

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/060607.html



The late Lawrence Walsh used to describe Iran-Contra treason he investigated as special prosecutor also fit in the lies running up to Iraq War 2: FIREWALL.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
164. Something to do with National security conference in Aspen?
Sun May 11, 2014, 03:35 PM
May 2014

Back then I wonder what they talked about?

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
109. Since you mentioned it
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:54 PM
May 2014

Kinda sorta, lately.

The Assholes seem to be winning "hearts and minds".

Have they won yours?

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
10. Well said my friend
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:31 AM
May 2014

No one is going to give you the education you need to overthrow them.

Nobody is going to teach you your true history, teach you your true heroes, if they know that that knowledge will help set you free.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
57. The best slave doesn't know he is one.
Fri May 9, 2014, 01:35 PM
May 2014

Bernard Gross published Friendly Fascism: The New Face of Power in America in 1980. The late professor served FDR and the New Deal Democrats and is remembered today for his work to reduce poverty. Among his many accomplishments, Gross helped author the Humphrey-Hawkins Full Employment Act. Later he taught at CUNY and Wayne State University in Detroit, where he founded the Center for Urban Studies.

Friendly Fascism

The New Face of Power in America


by Bertram Gross
South End Press, 1980, paper



INTRO EXCERPT...

Friendly fascism portrays two conflicting trends in the United States and other countries of the so-called "free world."

The first is a slow and powerful drift toward greater concentration of power and wealth in a repressive Big Business-Big Government partnership. This drift leads down the road toward a new and subtly manipulative form of corporatist serfdom. The phrase "friendly fascism" helps distinguish this possible future from the patently vicious corporatism of classic fascism in the past of Germany, Italy and Japan. It also contrasts with the friendly present of the dependent fascisms propped up by the U.S. government in El Salvador, Haiti, Argentina, Chile, South Korea, the Philippines and elsewhere.

The other is a slower and less powerful tendency for individuals and groups to seek greater participation in decisions affecting themselves and others. This trend goes beyond mere reaction to authoritarianism. It transcends the activities of progressive groups or movements and their use of formal democratic machinery. It is nourished by establishment promises-too often rendered false-of more human rights, civil rights and civil liberties. It is embodied in larger values of community, sharing, cooperation, service to others and basic morality as contrasted with crass materialism and dog-eat-dog competition. It affects power relations in the household, workplace, community, school, church, synagogue, and even the labyrinths of private and public bureaucracies. It could lead toward a truer democracy-and for this reason is bitterly fought...

These contradictory trends are woven fine into the fabric of highly industrialized capitalism. The unfolding logic of friendly fascist corporatism is rooted in "capitalist society's transnational growth and the groping responses to mounting crises in a dwindling capitalist world". Mind management and sophisticated repression become more attractive to would-be oligarchs when too many people try to convert democratic promises into reality. On the other hand, the alternative logic of true democracy is rooted in "humankind's long history of resistance to unjustified privilege" and in spontaneous or organized "reaction (other than fright or apathy) to concentrated power...and inequality, injustice or coercion".

A few years ago too many people closed their eyes to the indicators of the first tendency.

But events soon began to change perceptions.

The Ku Klux Klan and American Nazis crept out of the woodwork. An immoral minority of demagogues took to the airwaves. "Let me tell you something about the character of God," orated Jim Robison at a televised meeting personally endorsed by candidate Ronald Reagan. "If necessary, God would raise up a tyrant, a man who may not have the best ethics, to protect the freedom interests of the ethical and the godly." To protect Western oil companies, candidate Jimmy Carter proclaimed presidential willingness to send American troops into the Persian Gulf. Rosalyn Carter went further by telling an lowa campaign audience: "Jimmy is not afraid to declare war." Carter then proved himself unafraid to expand unemployment, presumably as an inflation cure, thereby reneging on his party's past full employment declarations.

CONTINUED...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/RiseFall_Friend_Fascism_FF.html



The good professor painted an accurate picture of what was to come.



James Madison

EXCERPT...

Despite the sharp differences from classic fascism, there are also some basic similarities. In each, a powerful oligarchy operates outside of, as well as through, the state. Each subverts constitutional government. Each suppresses rising demands for wider participation in decision making, the enforcement and enlargement of human rights, and genuine democracy. Each uses informational control and ideological flimflam to get lower and middle-class support for plans to expand the capital and power of the oligarchy and provide suitable rewards for political, professional, scientific, and cultural supporters.

A major difference is that under friendly fascism Big Government would do less pillaging of, and more pillaging for, Big Business. With much more integration than ever before among transnational corporations, Big Business would run less risk of control by any one state and enjoy more subservience by many states. In turn, stronger government support of transnational corporations, such as the large group of American companies with major holdings in South Africa, requires the active fostering of all latent conflicts among those segments of the American population that may object to this kind of foreign venture. It requires an Establishment with lower levels so extensive that few people or groups can attain significant power outside it, so flexible that many (perhaps most) dissenters and would-be revolutionaries can be incorporated within it. Above all, friendly fascism in any First World country today would \ use sophisticated control technologies far beyond the ken of the classic fascists.

p177
Although American hegemony can scarcely return in its Truman-Eisenhower-Kennedy-Johnson form, this does not necessarily signify the end of the American Century. Nor does communist and socialist advance on some fronts mark American and capitalist retreat on all fronts. There are unmistakable tendencies toward a rather thoroughgoing reconstruction of the entire "Free World." Robert Osgood sees a transitional period of "limited readjustment" and "retrenchment without disengagement," after which America could establish a "more enduring rationale of global influence." Looking at foreign policy under the Nixon administration, Robert W. Tucker sees no intention to "dismantle the empire" but rather a continued commitment to the view that "America must still remain the principal guarantor of a global order now openly and without equivocation identified with the status quo." He describes America as a "settled imperial power shorn of much of the former exuberance." George Liska looks forward to a future in which Americans, having become more mature in the handling of global affairs, will at last be the leaders of a true empire.

CONTINUED...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Specter_FriendlyFascism_FF.html



Cough assholes.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
104. I remember that book! Read it shortly after it came out.
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:22 PM
May 2014

Thanks for reminding me, Octafish!


I also remember around that time that the German filmmaker Volker Schlöndorff echoed that sentiment when he was being interviewed about his movie version of The Handmaid's Tale. When asked what fascism would be like if it came to America, he said something like, "I think it would seem very friendly, because it would be run by advertisers."

Although both Gross and Schlöndorff were wise men, I fear they may have been naive. We may devolve into the less friendly variety a little faster than anyone expected.

Just ask Scott Olsen. Or Chelsea Manning. Or Cecily McMillan. Or even a bunch of peaceful kids at U.C. Davis.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
20. Our oligarch overlords would love us to fight about Greenwald instead of addressing the bigger
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:06 AM
May 2014

problems. But the bigger problems are too complicated for some, so they stick with the hatred.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
27. This entire thread is about Glenn Greenwald.
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:13 AM
May 2014

If Glenn Greenwald had not been called out for the asshole he is, this thread would not exist.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
30. BEcause an asshole gets a lot of thread space here?
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:16 AM
May 2014


You've got me on why anybody would take anything the asshole has to say into account about anything, but some folks around here like the asshole so he gets thread space.
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
34. The point of the OP is that in the scope of things, if he is an asshole, he is way down
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:23 AM
May 2014

the list. Seems to me the only reason people go to such lengths to disparage him is that 1. It's a lot easier than actually delving into issues, 2. He doesnt represent the authoritarian powers. We certainly wouldnt want to upset the authorities.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
35. I didn't get that from the OP.
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:24 AM
May 2014


I saw the OP as a pathetic attempt to take the spotlight off the asshole who tweets.
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
54. Ah yes of course. It's so very important to keep the spotlight on him and away from other issues
Fri May 9, 2014, 12:39 PM
May 2014

like the TPP, the Patriot Act, indefinite detention, the NSA, fracking, etc.

Clearly, non-conformity to our oligarch overlords agenda must be smote.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
137. Good point. The Repugs want us to focus on Bengazi while the Blue Dogs want us to focus
Sat May 10, 2014, 09:05 AM
May 2014

on Greenwald/Snowden. In the meanwhile the plutocratic-oligrach overlords are picking our pockets (TPP, Fracking, XL Pipeling).

LiberalLovinLug

(14,173 posts)
71. LOL
Fri May 9, 2014, 04:40 PM
May 2014

What is pathetic is watching the frightened chicken-little authoritarians condemning those that accuse them of ignoring the message and only attacking the messenger. And then in your post you actually confirm that to you and your anti-freedom of information crowd, it really IS all about keeping the spotlight on the human foibles of the messenger.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
88. Yeah, I noticed you have a tendency to see things that aren't there and put
Fri May 9, 2014, 06:57 PM
May 2014

words and motives into the posts of others rather than reading and then responding to the substance of the post. I have heard of creative writing, but you appear to be a creative reader, it could almost be cool if your creative reading weren't so shallow and devoid of meaning.

Go ahead man, tell me this post means I am calling for an armed revolt against the government. You already pulled that bullshit once, go ahead, who knows, it might stick this time.

Or "are you mad" because you can't afford the word "are" when you post your gems of ignorance?

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
102. Really. Let's try an exercise.
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:09 PM
May 2014

Rank "the Asshole Greenwald" amidst the assholes in the OP in terms of the damage done to democracy. Personally, I think the assholery of Greenwald is less important than every single one. Actually, almost too small to mention.

So which ones do you think is he worse than?

Your answer will be illuminating!

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
151. Indeed. Sometimes it is better to remain silent,
Sat May 10, 2014, 08:53 PM
May 2014

than either admit that Greenwald isn't that big a deal or that the OP's group of "Assholes" are desired features, not bugs, in the new halls of power.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
97. Are you the Owner of this Site..? What gives YOU the right to decide what gets posted
Fri May 9, 2014, 08:07 PM
May 2014

here on DU. How long have you been on this site to know what the priorities are and to decide what's posted here?

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
118. "BEcause an asshole gets a lot of thread space here?"
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:43 PM
May 2014

You have certainly managed to.

In a short period of time , I might add.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
114. If lies were not being told about Greenwald there would still be Greenwald threads on Democratic
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:17 PM
May 2014

forums. Mainly because there always have been since he first began attacking the Bush Liars in 2005. Why would you think otherwise? It has always been Right Wingers who hated Greenwald, but they hate everyone who attacks their lying leaders.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
153. Could be. Maybe there needs to be a declaration from the Dem Party as to who actually
Sun May 11, 2014, 01:22 AM
May 2014

represents them now. Those who support Bush's policies, or those who opposed the back then and still do. I think we need to know.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
61. It's weird to see DUers cutting down the cornerstone of Democracy - the Free Press.
Fri May 9, 2014, 02:07 PM
May 2014

If a DUer disagrees with a report, great! State why -- especially the Democrats. Don't make out the reporter as the villain for reporting villainy.

What I see happening is a rush to denigrate the First Amendment, starting with the Press -- the one and only business mentioned by name in the entire constitution. And if the reactionaries on DU and elsewhere have their way, soon all five freedoms the First Amendment contains, Assembly, Petition, Religion, Speech and the Press, will be endangered.

Several on DU have written the Constitution is outmoded over the past few years, which was a surprise to me. Thanks for standing up, Jesus Malverde. Lo agradezco mucho.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
115. "It's weird to see DUers cutting down the cornerstone of Democracy - the Free Press."
Fri May 9, 2014, 10:29 PM
May 2014

I'm getting more discouraged by the day.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
154. I was told the other day on DU that I have been misinterpreting the 4th Amendment, and I presume
Sun May 11, 2014, 01:34 AM
May 2014

every legal scholar for over 200 years. I was told that by Bush supporters back in the bad old days, but we LAUGHED at their desperate attempts to try to defend his attacks on the Constitution. Back then you would not have been able to FIND a DUer who would have dared to try to claim that 'we have no INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS' according to the 4th Amendment to protect us from Government intrusion without an individual warrant with PROBABLE CAUSE.

I think perhaps it's time for the leadership of the Dem Party to let us know if these people who are running around supporting Bush policies represent the Dem Party. They appear to think they do. And IF they do, I would like to know because if that is the case, the people should know.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
36. All this energy on messengers and each other.
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:25 AM
May 2014

I dont like Greenwald, dont trust him, but I also dont like, REALLY dont like the people he reports on.

I wish we had put W and Dick in jail where they belong, but we didnt.

I remind you Obama cant fix what 200 yrs of white assholes created, there were a few decent ones in there but not many.

Obama or Clinton or even Biden (I wish we could have President Warren) are limited by their existence in a structure that limits all politicians within the confines of CAPITALISM, which is the real enemy here, at least the version we practice


Go get a seat on your local school board, we will help you...

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
49. Greenwald: 4 points about the 1971 FBI break-in
Fri May 9, 2014, 12:03 PM
May 2014

Why I like Greenwald, thanks to the great DUer Luminous Animal:



http://utdocuments.blogspot.com.br/2014/01/4-points-about-1971-fbi-break-in.html?m=1

The New York Times this morning has an extraordinary 13-minute video from a team of reporters including the independent journalist Jonathan Franklin, and an accompanying article by Mark Mazzetti, about the heroic anti-war activists who broke into an FBI field office in 1971 and took all of the documents they could get their hands on, and then sent those documents to newspapers, including the New York Times and Washington Post.

Some of those documents exposed J. Edgar Hoover's COINTELPRO program, aimed at quashing internal political dissent through surveillance, infiltration and other tactics. Those revelations ultimately led to the creation of the Church Committee in the mid-1970s and various reforms. The background on the Church Committee's COINTELPRO findings and the "burglary" operation which exposed it is here.

With the statute of limitations elapsed on their "crimes", ones the FBI could never solve, the courageous perpetrators have now unveiled themselves. The NYT story is based on a new book by Post reporter Betsy Medsger and the forthcoming documentary 1971 (of which my journalistic partner, Laura Poitras, is an Exective Producer). There are four crucial points to note:



Thanks for the reminder about Obama fixing 200-plus years etc. What I'd like to see him do is at least try.

smallcat88

(426 posts)
39. Greenwald aside
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:40 AM
May 2014

The original post makes an excellent point. The founding fathers are spinning in their graves! Democracy in this country has been replaced with oligarchy. And, like it or not, WE THE PEOPLE are as responsible for that as anyone else. Because not enough of us exercise our right to vote! Plenty of people are happy to exercise their right to bitch but keep electing the same assholes to office (or don't vote at all). One of the biggest problems - stats show the far right is most likely to vote in midterms. Too many people think only the presidential elections matter. Who's in congress is just as important, that fact NEEDS to be impressed on more people. If those in office were more concerned with their own constituents voting them out of office they'd be more inclined to work for the people - which was the intention of those who created our government. The rich and super rich ARE actively working to influence and control our elected officials while half the population can't even be bothered to go to the polls. From their point of view - why shouldn't they work for them?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
68. Edward Snowden and the Real Issues
Fri May 9, 2014, 04:01 PM
May 2014
Will We Pay Attention?

by CHRISTOPHER H. PYLE
CounterPunch June 13, 2013

EXCERPT...

This scandal is not just about Edward Snowden, the National Security Agency, and Snowden’s profiteering bosses at Booz Allen Hamilton. It is about secret government in general, the militarization of intelligence, the privatization of governmental functions, and the role of secret campaign contributions to prevent adequate oversight of the executive branch and its pet companies.

Senator Feinstein and her colleagues don’t want to admit it, but the secrecy system does not permit her and her colleagues to restrain secret government. Once they get a secret briefing, they are pledged not to discuss what they have learned, even with their staffs. Feinstein is such a weak overseer that she could not even persuade the secret FISA court to declassify its sweeping surveillance orders or the legal rationale behind them. But Mr. Snowden could do that with his leaks. He, not the senator, revealed that the secret court had, with its rubber stamp, rendered the Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonably broad seizures meaningless.

SNIP...

Since 9/11 private corporations have greatly expanded the intelligence community. Seventy percent of the community’s budget now goes to private contractors. So members of Congress, reporters, and suspected leakers are not just vulnerable to government surveillance; they are vulnerable to corporate reprisals, should their investigations or disclosures pose a threat to companies in the intelligence business. These surveillance powers can be used not only to protect secret agencies from criticism; they can be used, as General Motors once used them, to try to discredit critics like Ralph Nader.

Many people believe that they have nothing to fear from government/corporate surveillance because they have nothing to hide. But every bureaucracy is a solution in search of a problem, and if it can’t find a problem to fit its solution, they will redefine the problem. In the 1960s, the surveillance bureaucracies redefined anti-war and civil rights protests as communist enterprises; today the same bureaucracies redefine anti-war Quakers, environmentalists, and animal rights activists as “terrorists.” So political activists, no matter how benign, have good reasons to fear these bureaucracies.

Again, most Americans do not worry, because they are not political activists, reporters, investigating legislators, or crusading attorneys general like Eliot Spitzer. Most Americans are like the Germans who did not fear the secret police because they were not Jews. But all Americans depend on reporters, leakers, and crusading legislators to keep government agencies and private corporations under control. So they should worry about government secrecy, the militarization of surveillance, the privatization of intelligence, and the role of corporate money in elections.

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/06/13/edward-snowden-and-the-real-issues/

Thank you very much for your kind and reasoned response, smallcat88. People are giving up on voting, IMFO, because when they pull the lever for "Democrat" out pops "Republican." Sometimes it's due to the Supreme Court going 5-4, like in Bush v Gore of Florida; other times it's due to a politician stating one thing in the campaign and doing another in office, like too many to mention. As for the press? They are A.W.O.L., apart from a brave few like Greenwald, Palast, Pilger and Hedges -- and they usually get published overseas. Here in the Homeland, it's the Internet. And if the corporate merka FCC gets its way, not for much longer.

smallcat88

(426 posts)
93. Thanks for the link
Fri May 9, 2014, 07:59 PM
May 2014

I was unfamiliar with counterpunch. Good site, just added it to my favorites list. But reading that article makes me feel like I'm stuck in the Matrix!

malaise

(269,004 posts)
42. And they are still looking for more wars
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:47 AM
May 2014

We should continue to pursue them to their graves.
Some of them won't ever leave the US because they know they will be arrested for war crimes

SomeGuyInEagan

(1,515 posts)
56. ^^^ THIS! ^^^
Fri May 9, 2014, 01:29 PM
May 2014

If they will never face a serious prosecution threat, they'll keep on trying to start new wars.

If they will never face a serious prosecution threat, perhaps getting the to leave is the best we can do. It's not justice, but it would be a step toward improving lives.

Still, I'd rather prosecute.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
80. Lunch with the Chairman
Fri May 9, 2014, 05:00 PM
May 2014

Remember Richard (PNAC/Another Pearl Harbor) Perle? Just after September 11 and the Washington-Wall Street axis of war profiteering was heating up, Perle hit up Adnan (Iran-Contra/BCCI) Khashoggi for $100 million to make his new "Trireme Partnerships" take off.



Khashoggi's money would help launch the Carlyle Group-like investment group Perle founded. The petromoney was not for arms, directly. It was for investing in companies that were going to be making a killing off of homeland security related areas.

Interesting selling point: Perle already had secured financing from in from Boeing and some other bigwigs like Henry Kissinger.

One of the most important articles The New Yorker ever published:



Lunch with the Chairman

by Seymour M. Hersh
17 March 2003

At the peak of his deal-making activities, in the nineteen-seventies, the Saudi-born businessman Adnan Khashoggi brokered billions of dollars in arms and aircraft sales for the Saudi royal family, earning hundreds of millions in commissions and fees. Though never convicted of wrongdoing, he was repeatedly involved in disputes with federal prosecutors and with the Securities and Exchange Commission, and in recent years he has been in litigation in Thailand and Los Angeles, among other places, concerning allegations of stock manipulation and fraud. During the Reagan Administration, Khashoggi was one of the middlemen between Oliver North, in the White House, and the mullahs in Iran in what became known as the Iran-Contra scandal. Khashoggi subsequently claimed that he lost ten million dollars that he had put up to obtain embargoed weapons for Iran which were to be bartered (with Presidential approval) for American hostages. The scandals of those times seemed to feed off each other: a congressional investigation revealed that Khashoggi had borrowed much of the money for the weapons from the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (B.C.C.I.), whose collapse, in 1991, defrauded thousands of depositors and led to years of inquiry and litigation.

Khashoggi is still brokering. In January of this year, he arranged a private lunch, in France, to bring together Harb Saleh al-Zuhair, a Saudi industrialist whose family fortune includes extensive holdings in construction, electronics, and engineering companies throughout the Middle East, and Richard N. Perle, the chairman of the Defense Policy Board, who is one of the most outspoken and influential American advocates of war with Iraq.

The Defense Policy Board is a Defense Department advisory group composed primarily of highly respected former government officials, retired military officers, and academics. Its members, who serve without pay, include former national-security advisers, Secretaries of Defense, and heads of the C.I.A. The board meets several times a year at the Pentagon to review and assess the country’s strategic defense policies.

Perle is also a managing partner in a venture-capital company called Trireme Partners L.P., which was registered in November, 2001, in Delaware. Trireme’s main business, according to a two-page letter that one of its representatives sent to Khashoggi last November, is to invest in companies dealing in technology, goods, and services that are of value to homeland security and defense. The letter argued that the fear of terrorism would increase the demand for such products in Europe and in countries like Saudi Arabia and Singapore.

CONTINUED...

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/03/17/030317fa_fact



A bit on the new TRIREME business...



At Hollinger, Big Perks in A Small World

By Steven Pearlstein
Wednesday, November 19, 2003; Page E01

It's amazing the coincidences you find digging into Hollinger International, the publishing empire that includes Chicago's Sun-Times and London's Daily Telegraph and is quickly slipping from Conrad Black's control.

Let's start with the board of directors, which includes Barbara Amiel, Conrad's wife, whose right-wing rants have managed to find an outlet in Hollinger publications.

And there's Washington superhawk Richard Perle, who heads Hollinger Digital, the company's venture capital arm. Seems that Hollinger Digital put $2.5 million in a company called Trireme Partners, which aims to cash in on the big military and homeland security buildup. As luck would have it, Trireme's managing partner is none other than . . . Richard Perle.

Perle, of course, has been pushing hard for just such a military buildup from his other perch at the Pentagon's secretive and influential Defense Policy Board, where there are a number of other Friends of Hollinger.

CONTINUED (archived nowadays)...

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-309818.html



Thanks for noticing, malaise. The to-bomb list grows longer and the system stronger every damn day.

PS: It's why I keep bringing up Dallas. Those who remember the JFK Administration know it wasn't always this way.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
43. I wish that those c/o Greenwald were as upset at what he and Snowden exposed.
Fri May 9, 2014, 11:47 AM
May 2014

Especially when compared to:
1.) war crimes by Bush Co.;
2.) U.S. Chamber of Commerce undermining all of our institutions and sides with BP against their American victims including thousands of small businesses;
3.) the MSM in the tank for Big Business because they are owned by Big Business to brainwash folks to act against their own interests;
4.) our electoral system allows for legal bribes which has effectively transferred power from the people to the 1%;
5.) Climate Change will go virtually unchecked for the foreseeable future;
6.) the MIC is bankrupting our country with massive build ups not needed, but used to make us less secure by creating the very terrorists we are afraid of;
7.) our government regulatory agencies are under-budgeted and under-staffed;
8.) our public education system is starved so we will want vouchers and private schools;
9.) our infrastructure is failing and and it is too political to create high speed rail like the rest of the industrial world; and
10.) Protestors no longer allowed to safely protest all of the above!

I could keep going but you get the idea, we have a lot of extremely serious problems and Greenwald is not one of them.

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
67. It could lead one to believe that they actually approve of those, which is why they focus on GG & ES
Fri May 9, 2014, 03:47 PM
May 2014

instead.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
82. More cats vs. Know your BFEE
Fri May 9, 2014, 05:18 PM
May 2014
WikiLeaks Stratfor Dump Exposes Continued Secret Government Warmongering

War is big business. It's an insider's game. It's why we have so much secret government.

The last remaining enormous wads of cash in the Treasury are to be had for purchasing today's modern military industrial intel complex.



There's more than a trillion to be grabbed -- just for the Lockheed-Martin F-35.

Now keeping tabs on us -- people interested in using some of the nation's treasure for more peaceful purposes -- are for-hire spies. How do I know this? Julian Assange and Anonymous:



WikiLeaks' Stratfor Dump Lifts Lid on Intelligence-Industrial Complex

WikiLeaks' latest release, of hacked emails from Stratfor, shines light on the murky world of private intelligence-gathering


by Pratap Chatterjee
Published on Tuesday, February 28, 2012 by The Guardian/UK

What price bad intelligence? Some 5m internal emails from Stratfor, an Austin, Texas-based company that brands itself as a "global intelligence" provider, were recently obtained by Anonymous, the hacker collective, and are being released in batches by WikiLeaks, the whistleblowing website, starting Monday.

The most striking revelation from the latest disclosure is not simply the military-industrial complex that conspires to spy on citizens, activists and trouble-causers, but the extremely low quality of the information available to the highest bidder. Clients of the company include Dow Chemical, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman and Raytheon, as well as US government agencies like the Department of Homeland Security, the Defense Intelligence Agency and the Marines.

SNIP...

Assange notes that Stratfor is also seeking to profit directly from this information by partnering in an apparent hedge-fund venture with Shea Morenz, a former Goldman Sachs managing director. He points to an August 2011 document, marked "DO NOT SHARE OR DISCUSS", from Stratfor CEO George Friedman, which says:

"What StratCap will do is use our Stratfor's intelligence and analysis to trade in a range of geopolitical instruments, particularly government bonds, currencies and the like."


CONTINUED...

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/02/28-10?print



If it weren't for Anonymous and WikiLeaks, we probably wouldn't know about any of that.

It's no joke. It's no unimportant story. It's no boring history. Run by insiders, the secret government is key to making the system run on behalf of the few -- the 1-percent of 1-percent. Central to that is intelligence -- economically, politically and military useful information.

Which brings up the nation's purported free press, the only business mentioned by name in the entire United States Constitution, and how the organizations therein have miserably failed to feature prominently the sundry and myriad ways the insiders on Wall Street and their toadies in Washington do the work for Them.

The problem is systemic. The corruption is systemic.

Because it involves oversight of secret organizations -- the Pentagon, Homeland Security, CIA, etc -- Congress and the Administration often have no clue, let alone oversight, to what is happening because the corruption is marked "Top Secret."

Secret government also means We the People can't do our job as citizens, which is to hold them accountable and find the ones responsible in order to vote the crooks out and, it is hoped, the honest ones in.

With no citizen oversight, anything goes. And it doesn't stop.

Remember this fine fellow, US Navy fighter ace Randy "Duke" Cunningham?

Later a member of the United States Congress, he used his position to feather his nest, Big Time.



In his political career, Cunningham was a member of the Appropriations and Intelligence committees, and chaired the House Intelligence Subcommittee on Human Intelligence Analysis and Counterintelligence during the 109th Congress. He was considered a leading Republican expert on national security issues.

Currently, he's in USP Tuscon or another fine facility where he gets three squares, medical and dental.
He's due for release in a year or so. He'll be able to pick up his pension.

"The Duke Cunningham Act, also known as the Federal Pension Forfeiture Act, was introduced by U.S. Senator John F. Kerry in 2006. The bill would have denied pension benefits to any members of Congress convicted of bribery, conspiracy or perjury. The bill died in committee. (Source: The Press Enterprise)


Duke wasn't alone. He really was just one snake in a long line of snakes. Remember Dusty Foggo, Number 3 at CIA and close associate of CIA Director and former Congressman Porter Goss? Swells sitting atop the peak of political and military secrecy and power.

Unfortunately, when it comes to modern governance, no oversight means means the insiders are getting away with murder, and warmongering and treason and all the power that they bring. Appointed pretzeldent George W Bush on Valentine's Day 2007 put it in words: "Money trumps peace."



Secret government warmongering and war profiteering are systemic. Secret government is rotten to the core. What's more, in a democracy that once really was land of the free and home of the brave, secret government poses the greatest threat to true national security.

Thank you for grokking the situation, Dustlawyer. The "American way of life" is fast disappearing as the nation's only profitable lines of business are resource extraction, finance, and war. It is serious and those who work and serve to draw attention away from it are major parts of the problem.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
147. Thank you, that is the kinds of stuff I am talking about!
Sat May 10, 2014, 04:57 PM
May 2014

GG and ES are not the story, the story is the spying and corruption. I was not aware of what you just pointed out, there is just so much of it. A real reporter doesn't have far to dig to expose it, they just aren't allowed to, or paid not to.

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
101. Like Carter, who apparently isn't welcome in the club neither...
Fri May 9, 2014, 09:06 PM
May 2014


Either that or he doesn't actually want to be associated with it.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
156. Believe It Or Not Jimmy Carter Is The Most Threatened Ex-President in US History
Sun May 11, 2014, 08:12 AM
May 2014

by Jason Easley
PoliticusUSA, July 24, 2013

Here is something you might have never guessed in a million years. According to a new book by Larry Sabato, Jimmy Carter is the most threatened ex-president in US history.

The Washington Examiner reported that:

In “The Kennedy Half Century: The Presidency, Assassination, and Lasting Legacy of John F. Kennedy,” Carter told author Larry J. Sabato that he has faced at least three home-grown assassination attempts since returning to Georgia and is constantly warned by the U.S. Secret Service of personal threats during his frequent overseas travel.

“I have had two or three threats to my life after I came home from the White House,” Carter said in the highly-anticipated book due out October 22. “When I go on an overseas trip almost invariably, I get a report from the Secret Service that where I’m going is very dangerous,” he added in the book provided in advance to Secrets.

Carter also told Sabato: “Sometimes they [Secret Service] ask me not to go, and I go anyway. They and I both just laugh about it. So I have been more concerned about my safety in doing the Carter Center’s business overseas than I ever was in the White House.”


Carter has been targeted by both US and foreign assassins, and the threats it seems are still coming at him today. The foreign assassins are understandable because of all of the international work that former President Carter does, but three homegrown attempts on his life since he left office is a bit mind boggling. There have been former presidents that were much more controversial than Carter. It is difficult to comprehend how Carter could be more threatened than Nixon. Carter’s comments about Israel’s apartheid being worse than South Africa’s is just one example of how the former president has made his opinions known. However, Carter didn’t commit crimes like Nixon, tank an economy like Bush, or have a sex scandal like Clinton.

It is a little hard to believe that Jimmy Carter is America’s most threatened ex-president, but this is why all former presidents need Secret Service protection. Just because the president has left office, it doesn’t mean that the threats stop.

SOURCE: http://www.politicususa.com/2013/07/24/jimmy-carter-threatened-ex-president-history.html

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
166. I did not know this
Mon May 12, 2014, 07:19 PM
May 2014

Thanks for that bit of info. I should not be surprised though. He tells the truth and many are afraid of that. I see it a lot right here on DU and in my daily life.

Thank you Octafish for the truths you post.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
141. Quite a club it is...
Sat May 10, 2014, 10:14 AM
May 2014
Media Millionaires

Journalism by and for the 0.01 Percent

By Peter Hart
FAIR, July 1, 2013

Mainstream journalism is, we’re often told, in a state of severe crisis. Newsroom employment began to decline as a result of corporate takeovers in the 1990s. Then the digital revolution destroyed the advertising market, plunging the industry into serious doubt about its very business model.

But times aren’t rough all around. There are many pundits and TV anchors who are doing very well in the media world, racking up millions of dollars from their media contracts, book deals and lucrative speaking fees. Though they don’t generally approach the compensation packages awarded to network morning show hosts like Matt Lauer or evening anchors like Diane Sawyer, they’re not exactly hurting.

Of course, being the boss means the biggest payday—and media company CEOs have been posting unbelievable incomes. In 2012, CBS head Les Moonves made $62 million, Disney’s Robert Iger made $37 million and Rupert Murdoch of Fox took home a comparatively modest $22 million (New York Times, 5/5/13). Don’t feel sorry for Murdoch, though; as No. 91 on Forbes’ list of the world’s richest people, with an estimated net worth of $11.2 billion, he’s unlikely to go to bed hungry.

The media business outstrips other industries in generously compensating its top executives (New York Times, 5/5/13), and those resources could of course be put to better use by hiring reporters. But that’s not the way the system works. And it’s not just the bosses getting rich. Indeed, many high-profile members of the media elite live a rather charmed life. The journalism business looks to be in a disastrous state—but the view from the top is just fine.

Thomas Friedman

New York Times foreign affairs columnist Tom Friedman has written a number of bestsellers, and regularly holds forth on outlets like public TV’s Charlie Rose show. All of the globe-trotting and yearning for a “radical centrism” in American politics—where sensible climate policies could be paired with cuts to social spending—have paid off handsomely.

CONTINUED...

http://fair.org/slider/cover-story-media-millionaires/

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
142. Vietnam and Iraq Wars Started by Same People
Sat May 10, 2014, 10:24 AM
May 2014

It's not just class, the freaking players and their kin:

Vietnam and Iraq Wars Started by Same People

Hitler’s Bankers Shaped Vietnam War

Updated with new info and additional details:

Know your BFEE: War and Oil are just two longtime Main Lines of Business

And for those who think there's no difference between the administration of President John F. Kennedy and what followed:

'Arrogant' CIA Disobeys Orders in Viet Nam

PS: You are most welcome, WillyT! People who give a damn are the only reason Democracy has a chance against tyranny.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
146. More smear job.
Sat May 10, 2014, 12:16 PM
May 2014

While I don't know squat about Daily Banter, I do recognize what "Chez Pazienza" wrote amounts to one great smear job.

Greenwald's tweet about another intervention in Nigeria makes sense, as what he's really making clear is Washington has found a ready excuse to secure Nigeria's loot.

Remember Congo, where JFK wanted to work with Lumumba -- killed by his countrymen cough CIA cough Frank cough Carlucci a few days before JFK took office -- in order to bring peace and stability to the former Belgian colony by making certain the nation's resources helped make life better for the people of Congo. That wasn't going to happen. And it's been one great civil war with benefits for the crony class ever since.

Response to Octafish (Original post)

Response to Octafish (Original post)

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
89. Speaking of corporate mcpravda
Fri May 9, 2014, 06:57 PM
May 2014

I saw yet another BP pro-drilling ad several times today. I've noticed that tv ads basically fall into two categories - ones that are put together to encourage you to buy a specific product or set of products, and those that are propaganda to move the overton window on issues that favour corporate interests. I'm trying to remember the last time I saw a BP tv ad that actually was trying to sell gasoline. As far back as I can recall, they've all been propaganda type ads to either support an increase in drilling, fracking, or pipelines. All talking about how many American jobs BP creates cause they love us so much. Seems to me they could create just as many jobs if they switched their focus to renewables. No one is forcing them to 'create jobs' in drilling or fracking. They could create jobs in building windmills, solar panels, etc.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
162. Television, the Drug of a Nation, Breeding Ignorance and Feeding Radiation.
Sun May 11, 2014, 10:41 AM
May 2014

One nation under God
has turned into
One Nation under the influence
of one drug

Television, the drug of the Nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

T.V., it satellite links
our United States of unconciousness
Apathetic therapeutic and extremely addictive
the methadone metronome pumping out
a 150 channels 24 hours a day
you can flip through all of them
and still there's nothing worth watching

T.V. is the reason why less than ten percent of our
Nation reads books daily
Why most people think Central America
means Kansas
Socialism means unamerican
and Apartheid is a new headache remedy

absorbed in its world it's so hard to find us
It shapes our minds the most
maybe the mother of our Nation
should remind us
that we're sitting too close to. . .

Television, the drug of the Nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

T.V. is
the stomping ground for political candidates
Where bears in the woods
are chased by Grecian Formula'd
bald eagles

T.V. is mechanized politic's
remote control over the masses
co-sponsered by environmentally safe gases
watch for the PBS special

It's the perpetuation of the two party system
where image takes precedence over wisdom
Where sound bite politics are served to
the fastfood culture

Where straight teeth in your mouth
are more important than the words
that come out of it
Race baiting is the way to get selected
Willie Horton or
Will he not get elected on . . .

Television, the drug of the Nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

T.V. is it the reflector or the director?
Does it imitate us or do we imitate it
Because a child watches 1500 murders before he's
twelve years old and we wonder how we've created
a Jason generation that learns to laugh
rather than abhor the horror

T.V. is the place where
armchair generals and quarterbacks can
experience first hand
the excitement of video warfare
as the theme song is sung in the background

Sugar sweet sitcoms
that leave us with a bad actor taste while
pop stars metamorphosize into soda pop stars
You saw the video
You heard the soundtrack
Well now go buy the soft drink
Well, the only cola that I support
would be a union C.O.L.A. (Cost of Living Allowance)
On Television.

Television, the drug of the Nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

Back again, "New and Improved",
we return to our irregularly programmed schedule
hidden cleverly between heavy breasted
beer and car commericals

CNN ESPN ABC TNT but mostly B.S.
Where oxymoronic language like
"virtually spotless" "fresh frozen"
"light yet filling" and "military intelligence"
have become standard

T.V. is the place where phrases are redefined
like "recession" to "necessary downturn"
"crude oil" on a beach to "mousse"
"Civilian death" to "collateral damages"
and being killed by your own Army
is now called "friendly fire"

T.V. is the place where the pursuit
of happiness has become the pursuit of trivia
Where toothpaste and cars have become sex objects
Where imagination is sucked out of children
by a cathode ray nipple
T.V. is the only wet nurse
that would create a cripple

Television, the drug of the Nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation
On Television . . .

-- The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprasy

Fairgo

(1,571 posts)
90. Shining lights on sphincters
Fri May 9, 2014, 07:15 PM
May 2014

The imagery used is revealing...how far we've been pulled off topic, and the deep seated Freudian conflicts apparently left unresolved in Greenwald's detractors. The purpose of journalism in the fourth estate is to challenge all, shine the light on positions, facts, and actions. Good Journalists will appear objectionable to anyone who is comfortable in their delusions. If you find yourself in an ad hominem fury over a reporter, its a good idea to check yourself before you unleash the righteous snark. That is to say, shine a light on your own asshole before obsessing on others. Could be, unlike a trip to the dog park, there might be something more important to discuss.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
91. Nonsense. Perception is reality.
Fri May 9, 2014, 07:16 PM
May 2014

If reporters don't spill the beans on the truth, then we'd be fine.

@#$% Greenwald!

Regards,

TWM

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
92. It's time to open it all up again.
Fri May 9, 2014, 07:31 PM
May 2014

Our only hope is to restore the rule of law. Time to limn all the corruption, break out all the unpublished investigations, shine the light everywhere and let the roaches run.

Clean it up.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
94. But the Reporters are just so EASY to Discount and not the Policy Makers
Fri May 9, 2014, 08:01 PM
May 2014

who like the Banksters and Wall Street...are never held accountable for "Crimes against the Citizens."

What a World!

Puglover

(16,380 posts)
144. Don't be discouraged.
Sat May 10, 2014, 10:48 AM
May 2014

It's the same 40-47 posters that spam this board with their never ending bullshit. Same names, same meme. Consistently. I keep pretty much a mental ignore list. When I see the names there is no surprise as to what they are going to support or not support. So more often then not I skip their posts.

Unfortunately they are very very prolific posters. And it makes the place seem much worse then it actually is.

Look at the recs on this thread and then compare to some screed that has no substance, or maybe a few
.

They will quickly step up and say "What do recs mean?" Huh? Huh?

I don't think admin added the function because it didn't "mean anything".

slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
124. The bill to bail out the banks was passed by a Democratic majority after Obama ...
Sat May 10, 2014, 01:10 AM
May 2014

supported the bailout as the Dem nominee. His speech when he said 'who could have known' was something people should have paid attention to, obviously his financial advisors had no clue or were misleading the public.

Who could have known??? Many people predicted the real estate and derivatives bubble years in advance, unfortunately none were economic advisors to Obama.





Response to Octafish (Original post)

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
129. Well, given that we decided not to prosecute any of the OP "Assholes"
Sat May 10, 2014, 07:07 AM
May 2014

then, yes, I guess that is what it means.

One of the sad consequences of "looking forward" was that in the absence of the enforcement of laws, namecalling is all that is left.

ancianita

(36,057 posts)
130. I think Blankfein said that you can't prosecute stupidity, in so many words. Proving intent is THE
Sat May 10, 2014, 07:46 AM
May 2014

bugger of the problem and always has been. The AG probably hesitates because the 'asshole' legal army is formidable and the SCOTUS is probably biased enough to stop further indictments with an unprecedented, pro-Wall St. decision.

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
132. Huh. I was raised on "Ignorance is no defense" and for the "unwashed masses" that is true...
Sat May 10, 2014, 08:17 AM
May 2014

But I guess you're simply acknowledging more money buys you more justice.

Most likely SCOTUS would rule the way you say but they wouldn't be happy -- after all, it's better for the system if the illusion can be maintained rather than the reality being codified into law.

I'm sure they and the army of lawyers have ways of expressing that to the AG.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
155. Several DUers routinely apply it to journalists and whistleblowers, rather than to criminals.
Sun May 11, 2014, 07:49 AM
May 2014


What a smart guy said:



The Bush Family: A Continuing Criminal Enterprise?

Gary W. Potter, PhD.
Professor, Criminal Justice
Eastern Kentucky University

The S&Ls, the Mob and the Bushs

During the 1980's hundred of Savings and Loan Banks failed. Those bank failures cost U.S. taxpayers over $500 billion to cover federally insured losses, and much more to investigate the bank failures (Pizzo, Fricker, and Muolo, 1989; Brewton, 1992; Johnston, 1990). More than 75% of the Savings and Loan insolvencies where directly linked to serious and often criminal misconduct by senior financial insiders (Pizzo, Fricker and Muolo, 1989: 305). In fact, less than 10 percent of bank failures are related to economic conditions, the rest are caused by mismanagement or criminal conduct (Pizzo, Fricker and Muolo, 1989: 305).

A good example of the Savings and Loan failures can be found in the activities of Mario Renda, a Savings and Loan insider who often worked in close collaboration with organized crime (Pizzo, Fricker and Muolo, 1989: 123-126;302). Renda served as a middle man in arranging about $5 billion a year in deposits into 130 Savings and Loans, all of which failed (Kwitny, 1992: 27). Many of these deposits were made contingent on an agreement that the Savings and Loan involved would lend money to borrowers recommended by Renda, many of whom were organized crime figures or people entirely unknown to the banking institution involved (Kwitny, 1992: 27).

SNIP...

Prescott Bush: The Yakuza’s Frontman

Finally, and perhaps most seriously, the Bush family pioneered the practice which has now become commonplace of collaboration between corporate and organized criminals. Prescott Bush, uncle of the current President and brother of the former President, played a key role in helping the Japanese Yakuza extend their financial and real estate holdings to the United States. In 1989, Prescott Bush made arrangements for a front company for Japanese organized crime groups to buy into two U.S. corporations and to make a sizeable real investment in the U.S. (Helm, 1991a: 1; Isikoff, 1992: A1). West Tsusho, a Japanese corporation, was identified by Japanese police officials as a front company for one of that country’s largest organized crime syndicates. Prescott Bush was paid a fee of $500,000 for his help in negotiating West Tsusho’s purchase of controlling interest in Assets Management, a U.S. corporation (Helm, 1991a: 1; Isikoff, 1992: A1). Bush also assisted the Japanese mob in investing in Quantam Access, a U.S. software company, which was ultimately taken over by the Japanese (Helm, 1991b: 10; Isikoff, 1992: A1). Both companies ultimately went into bankruptcy (Isikoff, 1992: A1; Moses, 1992).

George Bush Sr.: Shutting Down the Organize Crime Strike Forces

Despite assessments from senior law enforcement officers and experts on organized crime that efforts to control organized crime would be crippled, in December 1989, the administration of George Bush, Sr. abolished all 14 regional organized crime strike forces (McAlister, 1989: A 21; Struck out, 1990). The organized crime strike had been created as independent entities so they would not be subject to political influences or bureaucratic wrangling within federal law enforcement. In the two decades of their operation the strike forces had secured convictions of major organized crime figures in several U.S. cities (Struck out, 1990). It is at the very least curious to note that the federal strike force in Miami had been responsible for indicting Miguel Recarey, the man for whom Jeb Bush had intervened with regulators. Organized crime strike forces had similarly indicted Mario Renda, the organized crime liaison to the S& L’s, as well as several other key figures in the Savings and Loan Fiasco (Pizzo, Fricker, and Mulolo, 1989: 112, 120-123, 303, 337).

CONTINUED...

http://critcrim.org/critpapers/potter.htm



That's the way a professor of criminal justice puts it. Bartcop, to get a better handle on War Inc's first family, called them the "BFEE" for short.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
161. Amazing that we need this review of real criminal history, but we do, Octafish...
Sun May 11, 2014, 10:39 AM
May 2014

For one of the best threads laying so much of it out we should review this from 2008…

Go here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4055207

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
131. Couldn't agree more… Loved this response tweet to asshole Wonkette...
Sat May 10, 2014, 07:59 AM
May 2014

And, I quote it…

FUCK EVERYBODY WHO IS REFLEXIVELY BASHING GLENN GREENWALD

Seriously. Does everybody have to immediately embrace the latest fad military intervention? If I question whether it is wise to use our military assets to resolve a kidnapping on the other side of the planet does that make me a morally-relative post-modern racist?

Note: All of your criticism is based one fucking tweet, a tweet that emphasizes how little people consider the nightmares of past military interventions, a tweet that happens to be, for what it's worth, 100 fucking percent accurate. For all you know, Greenwald might even support military action, but also think that its supporters are ignoring the potential costs. You wouldn't know either way since you're only basing your opinion on one fucking tweet.

Some people understandably don't want to talk about the costs of military action. Since Wonkette is, by its own admission, gung-ho about sending in the marines they might not want to have the uncomfortable conversation about the frequently disastrous results of America military interventions, regardless of how well-intended that may be. So instead of addressing Greenwald's point people projecting all sorts of strawman bullshit on to Greenwald that he didn't even say, insinuating that he's a moral relativist and/or racist abomination. That's total bullshit and its worthy contempt. So I'll say it again:

FUCK YOU.

Read more at http://wonkette.com/548653/youll-never-believe-which-inhuman-monster-doesnt-care-to-find-nigerian-schoolgirls-its-glenn-greenwald#vRyywhbzPHzdK6sk.99

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
160. American Torturers are REAL ASSHOLES.
Sun May 11, 2014, 10:12 AM
May 2014

Most of their evil has been covered up, including the torture and rape of Iraqi children in front of parents.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2009/07/20/755345/-Children-tortured-before-parents-raped-all-covered-up-by-Bush-Cheney-and-our-media

Story should have led to a Congressional investigation and a special prosecutor.

http://boingboing.net/2004/07/15/hersh-children-raped.html

But no. And they got away.

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