General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis, my friends, is an *actual* coup.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27517591Thailand coup d'etat as military seizes power
Thailand's military has announced it is taking control of the government and has suspended the constitution.
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On Tuesday the army imposed martial law. Talks were then held between the main political factions, but the army announced the coup on Thursday.
Political party leaders, including opposition leader Suthep Thaugsuban, were taken away from the talks venue after troops sealed off the area.
Troops have reportedly fired into the air to disperse groups of rival supporters.
The broadcast media have been told to suspend all normal programming.
____________________________________________________________________________________
No vague non sequiturs of cookies or phone calls. No President taking three days to pack up his valuable oil painting collection and then flying away in his own fleet of helicopters. No votes by the legislative body to remove the abdicating president. No immediate scheduling of new elections to replace said abdicating president.
Nope, just a real, live, actual coup d'état. Army comes in, forcibly removes the people in power against their will, suspends the constitution and declares themselves in charge.
Words matter.

MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)And they don't realize what it is they are demanding because NOTHING can be worse than the military taking control of a government.
This country does not understand what a coup it.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,888 posts)
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Frankly, it was easier when we all just got called "Stasi!"
freshwest
(53,661 posts)The eternal posting of the Authoritarians book links, (as if most of us have not read and digested it years ago) to describe DUers who just don't agree with the cult mindset to be a bit much, too. Because only the Pauls are for 'freedom.' Humm, do I need a or
icon here?
EDIT: About the crypto thing, are they saying you're dead? Or just mysterious? Or only half something or the other? And don't most of those terms indicate you are being paid by the government to uh, oppress freedom loving spirits here?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)the language properly.
Harry Monroe
(2,935 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)Blanks
(4,835 posts)So that the American spring brigade can see how it's done. Use it as a training video.
It makes me wonder if the American spring's overwhelming success over the weekend had anything to do with the equally overwhelming success of the tea party candidates on Tuesday.
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Well, if you read nothing but RT, it is.
Sid
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Correspondents say they are hated by an urban and middle-class elite who accuse them of corruption.
It would that the wealthier groups are refusing to work with the less wealthy folk.
Is that similar to Ukraine or other European countries?
I wonder how this fracture compares with what is going on in the USA.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)These things must be done delicately...
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,888 posts)It's tempting to draw analogies and comparisons with one place to another, but in the end there always will be factors that make one country's particular situation distinctly its own.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)as Lev Tolstoy told us: "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." Anna Karinina, Leo Tolstoy, first sentence.
Trying to fit a one size fits all frame on civil unrest is impossible.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)bellies or those who have accumulated great weatlh. It all gets down to the money. And the complexity of the Ukrainian situation is why I believe we are correct in not pitching a fit over it. The people of Ukraine will decide what they want, the only thing is they all want different things. I keep trying to find a cause, like the boundaries drawn up after the world wars. But that region has been warring for centuries before that, and those people know their own history far more than we in America can comprehend. This is where ideology fails to analyze correctly, trying to fit it all into one box or the other. Thanks for the comment, it just sends me back to square one, and feels remarkably like what we are dealing with on a community level. People make political alliances all the time that effect lives, and the goal is not the political game, it is the lives of people. So things can change very quickly.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)I spoke to some Iranian students that told me Ahmedinajad was voted into power by rural religious voters, but despised by urban, educated voters. (Luckily, he's no longer in office).
However, I also have a relative in Thailand who told me that the ruling party in government in Thailand is unbelievably corrupt, almost beyond what you can imagine.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)OregonBlue
(8,100 posts)bought their way into power. Actually, when it comes to it, the Red Shirts (Thaksin supporters), while they are the rural poor, are more the equivalent of the Tea Party than anything else.
The Yellow shirts (royalist and urban and middle class) have run the country for years and have not paid attention to the working and rural poor. They are however better educated and politically more liberal as a rule.
All in all, there is no real comparison to the U.S.
They are both right and they are both wrong. No one is willing to compromise. Stalemate.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)
pampango
(24,692 posts)I was in Thailand once a long time ago. There are a lot of really nice people there. I care about them.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)Around midnite, on my way to work. It seems to have just happened and they were imposing curfews and such. Madness.
Julie
Glorfindel
(10,103 posts)It's a trifle different, but the difference is important. The government has been overthrown, but the chief of state remains.
You're right: Words matter.
unblock
(55,069 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,888 posts)And then there are things that some people label as "coups" which are not actually coups at all.
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)For example, what the U.S. is doing in Syria now. It seems there are many variations on what may be considered coups. Here is a list of regime changes and coups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions
Covert United States foreign regime
change actions
1949 Syrian coup d'état
1953 Iranian coup d'état
1954 Guatemalan coup d'état
1959 Tibetan uprising
1961 Cuba, Bay of Pigs Invasion
1963 South Vietnamese coup
1964 Brazilian coup d'état
1973 Chilean coup d'état
1976 Argentine coup d'état
197989 Afghanistan, Operation Cyclone
1980 Turkish coup d'état
198187 Nicaragua, Contras
2011present Syrian uprising
The United States has been involved in and assisted in the overthrow of foreign governments (more recently termed "regime change"without the overt use of U.S. military force. Often, such operations are tasked to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).
Regime change has been attempted through direct involvement of U.S. operatives, the funding and training of insurgency groups within these countries, anti-regime propaganda campaigns, coups d'état, and other activities usually conducted as operations by the CIA. The United States has also accomplished regime change by direct military action, such as following the U.S. invasion of Panama in 1989 and the U.S.-led military invasion of Iraq in 2003.
Some argue that non-transparent United States government agencies working in secret sometimes mislead or do not fully implement the decisions of elected civilian leaders and that this has been an important component of many such operations,[1] see plausible deniability. Some contend that the U.S. has supported more coups against democracies that it perceived as communist, becoming communist, or pro-communist.[1]
The U.S. has also covertly supported opposition groups in various countries without necessarily attempting to overthrow the government. For example, the CIA funded anti-communist political parties in countries such as Italy and Chile; it also armed Kurdish rebels fighting the Ba'athist government of Iraq in the Second Kurdish-Iraqi War prior to the Algiers Agreement.
...
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,888 posts)Classic affirming the consequent.
Of course, with Syria, it's neither a regime change nor a coup, since Assad remains in power.
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)I think the Thailand case is best termed a military junta or military coup. They seem to have long history of that, perfecting it perhaps. At least it is not a violent one (at the moment). By comparison, some of our regime changes, e.g. Iraq war, or Syria (attempted) are quite violent. And have they achieved anything positive? I'm only seeing great loss of life at our hands, and Obama's now.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,888 posts)Syria began as peaceful protests around the same time as the protests against Mubarak in Egypt. Of course, where Mubarak folded relatively quickly, Assad fought back brutally, and the situation quickly deteriorated into out and out civil war. Our involvement there--and it's still rather limited--really didn't come until allegations of Assad's brutality against the rebellion came about.
Iraq, on the other hand, was all us. It's possible that if we had just waited a few years, Saddam would have gone the way of Mubarak or Gadhafi. Instead, we wasted billions of our own money on it, plus thousands of lives of our military and of Iraqis.
Iraq was our natural born child, so to speak. Syria is at best our foster child.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)some see only what they want to see.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,888 posts)....how did the "coup" in Ukraine happen?
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,888 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)barbtries
(30,384 posts)til they came up a little short on the numbers?
8 track mind
(1,638 posts)Way north of Bangkok. Things are getting way more serious than whats being reported. All facebook posts from them and phone calls have suddenly stopped. According to them, the chap who is running the military is a power hungry asshole and he's been wanting this for sometime. He's very hardline, and has the potential to be a dictator. My wife's Mom has dual citizenship so she may be planning as escape as we speak. We have planned ahead for this, essentially telling her to not tell anyone, just board a plane, and call us when she lands in the states.
I'm afraid this is not going to end nicely. I hope i'm wrong....
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,888 posts)I hope they stay safe!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)8 track mind
(1,638 posts)She is still there. The military is in her small town of Udon Thani just to enforce a curfew. She's ok for now and telling us not to worry.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)1000words
(7,051 posts)Dictionary definition of "coup."
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Hitler seized power in a bloodless way in 1933. The blood came circa 1938. Never forget that.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,888 posts)And the former holders of power being forced out because of those threats.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)President.
arikara
(5,562 posts)this is the 19th coup in 82 years. Poor people.
OregonBlue
(8,100 posts)is willing to compromise. Already there have been over 30 people killed and over 800 wounded in this latest series of demonstrations. Let's hope that the military restores order, sends the protestors home and then the various political parties (there are lots of them in Thailand) come together and work out a compromise.
After the violent and bloody coups in the 1970's the military has been reluctant to use deadly force against Thai citizens. I actually think many police and military personnel would refuse to shoot their own citizens. For all their problems, they are actually not a violent people.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)back in the forties and fifties. We had a non-military coup here in the USA when George Bush seized power back in 2000 with the backing of the Supreme Court. Neither the military coups of SA or our bloodless one had good results.
This coup will not yield the results the Thai people want either.
OregonBlue
(8,100 posts)don't last long. Let's hope this one is the same.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)down when military is involved.
OregonBlue
(8,100 posts)non-violent. There was some nasty stuff that went on during the 70's but that hasn't happened since, even though there have been other coups. Let's all pray for Thailand. Such a lovely country.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)