If you respond to Coates's reparations piece and mention slavery, you obviously didn't read it

[Recursion]

I just want to get that out there because I'm seeing that a lot, even here.

His argument is not at all about slavery. His only real mention of slavery was a description of some attempts by freed slaves (with mixed success) to get reparations from their former exploiters, as an analogy for modern reparations efforts, as well as some anecdotes to counter the notion that "the black family" is pathological.

His argument -- and it's pretty damn persuasive -- is that the postwar white middle class was deliberately and specifically created by funneling money from the black working class both in the South and in the Great Migration diaspora; he pretty compellingly shows the New Deal itself to be a way of funneling money from poor blacks to poor whites. It's not even particularly about the legal and extralegal violence employed to prevent black wealth creation, except to the extent that those means were employed when the subtler means failed.

The US Government very effectively prevented black wealth formation over the entire 20th century through racist housing policies, education policies, agriculture policies, labor policies, and a racially-biased safety net. This is not some pipe dream about something my ancestor did to somebody else's ancestor (though my ancestor was a slaverunner who smuggled Africans into the South -- another ancestor was a slave, but I inherited his advantages rather than her disadvantages, fortunately for me). This is about the creation of the vaunted postwar middle class and its roots in an activist white supremacist government.

You may not agree with that argument, but it really irks me to see people acting like he is talking about slavery.

And, once again, because I think this piece can't be recommended enough, the article.

[Kalidurga]

1. I haven't read it all yet...

But, enough to get the drift it wasn't about slavery and that it is about the ongoing discrimination that causes wealth disparity.

I think he has made a strong case. I don't know if he proposed a solution or not, but I would be on board for free college and things of that nature.

[handmade34]

2. my understanding

is that he believes there is no suitable solution as of yet because we haven't even addressed it honestly and studied it... he's one smart man!

[Kalidurga]

3. there isn't

but, that doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything. I think we start with education k-college. Raise the minimum wage to a livable wage the formula might be complicated, but standard should be around the cost of basic housing, food, transportation costs.

The tricky thing too is tracking down people who were victimized, but it might no longer be apparent. For example if someone's father was half-black and his father had land stolen, but said father looked white and his children didn't even have any idea that their grandfather had land stolen in fact didn't know their heritage at all they will probably not make a claim. But, IMO they are still victims because they lost out on their inheritance.

[handmade34]

4. not to say there isn't a solution

only that Coates sees a need first to address the problems honestly before we can consider a proper solution... I am delighted that there is finally an opportunity for a public discussion

[Recursion]

5. To the extent he advocates something, it's Conyers's study proposal

I can't say I can think of a single argument against it (other than "they'll kill us in the midterms if we do", which itself is worth pondering as data).

[Laelth]

6. Excellent essay.

This part is key:

An America that asks what it owes its most vulnerable citizens is improved and humane. An America that looks away is ignoring not just the sins of the past but the sins of the present and the certain sins of the future.

Well worth my reading time. Thanks.

-Laelth

[Donald Ian Rankin]

7. May I draw your attention to the very first sentence of the subtitle.

Also to the sixty-plus references to slavery throughout the text.

Yes, there's more to his article than slavery. But it's a big part of it.

[Spider Jerusalem]

10. Which is like an article about the Troubles in Northern Ireland...

mentioning the Plantation of Ulster. It's not possible to understand the present without knowing the past. The primary focus however is not at all on slavery or even the pre-civil rights era of legally-enforced segregation so much as it is on inherently discriminatory government policies in housing and mortgage lending (and their effect in creating de facto segregation and a persistent black economic underclass).

[Flatulo]

8. It always comes back to education. The wealth gap between the affluent and the poor can

only be addressed by ensuring that the poor have access to higher education. Otherwise, whites will continue to get the high paying jobs, and minorities will be trapped in service jobs.

Secondary education should be available to all those with the aptitude but no money. With college costs in the stratosphere, our society is becoming ever more polarized along rich/poor lines. The Scandanavian countries can do it and still retain the highest living standards in the world; so can we.

This seems to me to be a fair way to redress the historic mistreatment of African-Americans. Give them the tools to get on an equal footing with white/affluent America and you'll see the wealth gap diminish, and with it, fear and mistrust.

[Recursion]

9. Have you read Wilkerson's "The Warmth of Other Suns"? It argues against that

The African Americans in the Great Migration actually had higher average educational attainment than the whites in the north and Midwest they were moving among. They were still prevented from collecting wealth.

[Flatulo]

11. But did they have the protection of the law? In the essay in the OP, blacks were swindled out

of their homes and land by predatory lenders and landlords. Even up to the present day, redlining continues in places. The law needs to be vigorously enforced. Property rights need to be honored and backed by the full force if law. Gains made cannot be stolen back.

If the legal protections are in place, there should be a wealth accumulating effect.

I sometimes think that affluent America is actually more classist than racist. Whites don't fear the affluent minority family moving in next door, but the poor? "Not in my neighborhood." Obviously racism is alive and well, but I think wealth may be as great or greater a divide.

For the record, I'm both white and affluent, although I did grow up poor, and I mean 'go to bed hungry and wear tattered clothing' poor. No-car or TV poor. But I've never experienced racism, so I can only relate my own feelings and experiences.