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octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
Mon May 26, 2014, 08:35 AM May 2014

The right is on the rise across Europe – and I'm starting to worry

I've never had much trouble being Jewish. I've only been called "big-nose Yiddy" for sitting on the train minding my own business, and "bloody Jew" for winning once too often at squash, but apart from that it's been a breeze. My mother wasn't keen on me blabbing about it publicly, just in case someone heard and threw a brick through our window, but fair enough – she lived through the war and never quite got over it. But Hitler's gone now, and everything's different, isn't it?

Suddenly, I'm not so sure. Things seem to be getting a bit creepy again. I noticed, when voting last week, a number of strange new parties had sprung up on the right: the English Democrats, who "would seek to work with Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders"; the Harmony Party – 'Zero Immigration'; the Christian People's Alliance – 'God is angry over gay marriage'; and old BNP and Ukip. Not too far away, Golden Dawn and the Jobbiks are blooming. Over in Brussels, four people have been shot dead in the Jewish Museum, and, as Gary Younge so clearly pointed out in this paper, racism in the US isn't just the odd old white man saying the n-word out loud, or Clarkson muttering it over here.

Following Ukip's earthquake, Rosemary was getting a bit panicky yesterday. We have a bad dream – that there'll be a Conservative/Ukip coalition in 2015. "If that happens, I'm leaving the country," she said, scared stiff. But where will she go? Is there anywhere safer? France? Denmark? "We're not racist," say our own little right-wing parties,"we're just saying what people think". Help! If that's what most people really think, we're in trouble.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2014/may/26/right-rise-across-europe-starting-worry?CMP=twt_gu

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The right is on the rise across Europe – and I'm starting to worry (Original Post) octoberlib May 2014 OP
But the left did very well in Spain and Greece malaise May 2014 #1
A good thing. They only had 33% voter turn-out in the UK octoberlib May 2014 #2
Low UK Turnout usually equals "protest vote". mwooldri May 2014 #22
But Labour is like the Democrats......... socialist_n_TN May 2014 #5
They may be even worse with that stupid Blair third way malaise May 2014 #9
That describes much but not all of Labour LeftishBrit May 2014 #14
Spanish and Greek results aren't that great muriel_volestrangler May 2014 #12
Me too shenmue May 2014 #3
Even a casual knowledge of history suggests COLGATE4 May 2014 #4
Hardly better news for Africans and non-white people in general malaise May 2014 #11
+1000 heaven05 May 2014 #18
No, it isn't good news for Jews. Behind the Aegis May 2014 #29
I think you're right. The Roma are easy targets now, COLGATE4 May 2014 #33
I launched a thread on this topic. Laelth May 2014 #6
Thanks, Laelth! octoberlib May 2014 #7
My pleasure. Laelth May 2014 #10
There is power in UNITY. The non-whites and Jews must stop their own bigotry and unify around kelliekat44 May 2014 #16
A chunk of the corporate white master class sulphurdunn May 2014 #17
Any suggestions for how to organize against these forces? kelliekat44 May 2014 #34
Not really sulphurdunn May 2014 #35
Most of the right wing vote sabbat hunter May 2014 #8
k&r LeftishBrit May 2014 #13
The American media did the octoberlib May 2014 #24
I have learned from your post and the other links. Every woman in America needs to vote DhhD May 2014 #15
I think you're right smallcat88 May 2014 #19
People not paying attention octoberlib May 2014 #23
People who are just not paying attention to politics Keefer May 2014 #26
Only 36% of the French voted so you got you wish betterdemsonly May 2014 #31
As far as the UK goes, I'm not worried. mwooldri May 2014 #20
I still think the UK is saner, lol. octoberlib May 2014 #21
Here's my theory on why the Lib Dems formed a Coalition with the Tories in 2010. mwooldri May 2014 #28
Thank you for the detailed, octoberlib May 2014 #30
Probably not expected, but Clegg was a Tory, first. Spider Jerusalem May 2014 #32
This would never have happened if betterdemsonly May 2014 #25
They've traded up; they hate Muslims instead of Jews now Scootaloo May 2014 #27
at least sabbat hunter May 2014 #37
in many countries sabbat hunter May 2014 #36

malaise

(269,157 posts)
1. But the left did very well in Spain and Greece
Mon May 26, 2014, 08:39 AM
May 2014

Labour won London and everything suggests that Labour will win in 2015.

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
2. A good thing. They only had 33% voter turn-out in the UK
Mon May 26, 2014, 08:45 AM
May 2014

and low turn-out always seems to favor the right. At least it does over here.

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
22. Low UK Turnout usually equals "protest vote".
Mon May 26, 2014, 01:36 PM
May 2014

Once upon a time, the Liberal Democrats could be seen as a beneficiary of a protest vote. Joining the Tories in the coalition government has done nothing but lose votes and overall support.

I suspect that if the Lib Dems were part of the opposition that their vote share would have held up higher but I think their vote share would have gone down anyway based on their pro-EU stance.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
5. But Labour is like the Democrats.........
Mon May 26, 2014, 08:56 AM
May 2014

They're just "Neo-liberal Lite". Which means that Labour won't ever fix the problem. Are they better than the fascists and the proto-fascists? Undoubtedly, but the Dems are better than the proto-fascists or the Republicans here too.

What you wind up with is an electorate who STILL doesn't have any real choices among the "approved and serious" parties, so they yo-yo between the two desperately hoping SOMEBODY will ACTUALLY fix the problems. When the so-called "left" fails to make their life better, the electorate turns to the right. And vice-versa.

LeftishBrit

(41,208 posts)
14. That describes much but not all of Labour
Mon May 26, 2014, 09:55 AM
May 2014

But I agree that

'what you wind up with is an electorate who STILL doesn't have any real choices among the "approved and serious" parties, so they yo-yo between the two desperately hoping SOMEBODY will ACTUALLY fix the problems'. Or many (most people in Euro-elections) don't vote at all. This means that pseudo-populist quick-fix parties can trade on the voter disillusionment.

It should be pointed out that both Labour AND UKIP gained significantly in the local council and Euro-elections, though much of the media is focusing just on the UKIP gains. Tories and LibDems lost a lot of ground, especially the LDs (I suspect that Nick Clegg is now not long for the party leadership world). Seems that a lot of the result can be explained by people punishing the government parties in favour of alternative parties of both (relative) Left, and Right.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,349 posts)
12. Spanish and Greek results aren't that great
Mon May 26, 2014, 09:23 AM
May 2014
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2014/may/25/european-elections-results-across-europe-eu-parliament

In Spain, the centre-right People's Party still came first; in Greece, the left wing Syriza did come first, but the centre-right new Democracy was 2nd, and the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn 3rd.

"Everything suggests that Labour will win in 2015" is optimistic; at the moment, they are ahead in the polls, but they have been steadily losing their lead.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2

Ironically, what might save the Labour majority is if UKIP is strong enough in the general election to divide the right wing vote.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
4. Even a casual knowledge of history suggests
Mon May 26, 2014, 08:51 AM
May 2014

that it is in great part cyclical. I too am concerned that the wheel may once again be turning towards fascism having a strong appeal. And history suggests that, when that happens it usually is not good news for the Jews.

malaise

(269,157 posts)
11. Hardly better news for Africans and non-white people in general
Mon May 26, 2014, 09:14 AM
May 2014

This planet is one sordid mess.

Behind the Aegis

(53,975 posts)
29. No, it isn't good news for Jews.
Mon May 26, 2014, 02:53 PM
May 2014

Of course, some really don't give a shit, which is why it is actually worse news. It is also bad news for the Roma and immigrants, in general. Just mention "Jews" and everyone wants to talk about everyone but the Jews. That may also be a good predictor of things to come. The far-right will make their move in various ways, so watching this unfold is disconcerting.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
33. I think you're right. The Roma are easy targets now,
Mon May 26, 2014, 05:36 PM
May 2014

much like the Jews were in the 1930's. What happens to them is a good bellwether of what may be in store for the Jews further down the road. Stay tuned. I'm not optimistic.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
6. I launched a thread on this topic.
Mon May 26, 2014, 08:59 AM
May 2014

I think you are right to be worried, and I see little hope of stemming the reactionary tide until we address the underlying issue(s).

The thread I mentioned can be found here.



-Laelth

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
10. My pleasure.
Mon May 26, 2014, 09:13 AM
May 2014

Although you may want to retract your gracious "thanks" once you read what I had to say.



-Laelth

 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
16. There is power in UNITY. The non-whites and Jews must stop their own bigotry and unify around
Mon May 26, 2014, 11:06 AM
May 2014

a set of social, democratic, non-racist principles putting their money, natural resources, and man/woman power to serving and building up each other. The more these groups continue to believe that their only successes come through serving, working for, or supporting the corporate white "master class" the more emboldened the privileged whites become and they see no reason to yield any ground. It really turns out to be a simple matter of acting in your own best interests and supporting those who are seeking power to do so. It is often in a group's self interest to see to it that those other groups around you are protected and supported in realizing their own non-predatory aspirations. It's like living on block in a close knit community. As long as we all are safe in our own homes, we all are able to keep up our property appearances, as long as we all look out for each others property, take care of our needy on the block we all thrive. But if we don't help the family of the man that just lost his job who can't afford to have his lawn mowed or who can't afford to fix his broken window we all suffer from a blighted neighborhood.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
17. A chunk of the corporate white master class
Mon May 26, 2014, 11:36 AM
May 2014

you allude to is Jewish, many of its members are also non-white. Personally, I think racial and ethnic solidarity are poor organizing systems.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
35. Not really
Mon May 26, 2014, 09:34 PM
May 2014

The forces of oppression are better organized today than they have ever been. The common people are more disorganized than anytime in my life. Our unions have been largely co-opted or destroyed. Churches and college campuses remain. Those are possibilities. The problem is that the ruling classes are prepared to deal with anything we've done in the past. That is why OWS was so quickly neutralized and why racial and ethnic organizing would be targeted even more swiftly, especially through mass media and with armed force. Whatever happens, I do believe the best strategies are peaceful non-compliance and defiance that costs them lots of money.

sabbat hunter

(6,834 posts)
8. Most of the right wing vote
Mon May 26, 2014, 09:12 AM
May 2014

came from Euro-skeptics. And there was a lot of people who stayed home and did not vote at all. That boosted the rightwingers who had a more motivated voting base.

LeftishBrit

(41,208 posts)
13. k&r
Mon May 26, 2014, 09:47 AM
May 2014

As another British Jew and leftie, this is seriously worrying.

Having said that, Euro-elections do tend to attract the nuts, and the local council elections were not that bad, despite the way UKIP and much of the media spin them.

Also, it should be noted that Labour have improved their position, though if you believed a lot of the RW media, you'd think they'd gone down the drain.

It's worse in some other EU countries, as the writer points out.

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
24. The American media did the
Mon May 26, 2014, 01:50 PM
May 2014

same thing with the Tea Party. Gave them way more attention than they deserved.

DhhD

(4,695 posts)
15. I have learned from your post and the other links. Every woman in America needs to vote
Mon May 26, 2014, 11:03 AM
May 2014

in 2014 and in every election thereafter. So do the women of the world.

smallcat88

(426 posts)
19. I think you're right
Mon May 26, 2014, 11:55 AM
May 2014

that the lack of voter turnout is a big problem. It's one of the reasons the tea party did so well here in the U.S. in 2010. A lot of that traces back to people who are just not paying attention to politics.

If it makes you feel any better the surge of right-wing crazies can have consequences they do not intend. I am a case in point. I have always been a lifelong Independent. But the right-wing surge in the last few years (ever since Obama was elected) has pushed me further to the left. So much so that I'm planning to register as a Democrat in the next election, I never thought I would align myself with any party.

DU is another reason. This is the only site I've found where I don't get attacked by trolls when I write a post that's logical and grounded in common sense. I've investigated a number of sites over the years. The mere suggestion that we have too many guns on our streets brings out every nutcase troll on the internet.

I never paid attention to politics when I was younger. As I got older and started watching the news I was truly appalled at what's really going on in the world. That's the answer. Make people aware. And you need to concentrate on people who are not paying attention. The right thinks they speak for the majority. They don't. I think the recent Operation American Spring proved that rather eloquently.

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
23. People not paying attention
Mon May 26, 2014, 01:47 PM
May 2014

to politics is part of it but I also think it's disillusionment . This is all part of the GOP strategy to make Americans lose faith in government. It's part of why they obstruct everything. Nice post!

Keefer

(713 posts)
26. People who are just not paying attention to politics
Mon May 26, 2014, 02:11 PM
May 2014

Shouldn't really be voting. That's another problem.

 

betterdemsonly

(1,967 posts)
31. Only 36% of the French voted so you got you wish
Mon May 26, 2014, 05:30 PM
May 2014

The people not paying attention are the neoliberal politicians, like Hollande. He betrayed the voters by governing as a right wing austerian and left the voters with no one to vote for.

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
20. As far as the UK goes, I'm not worried.
Mon May 26, 2014, 01:21 PM
May 2014

European elections and Westminster elections are run under different set of rules. No-one in UKIP has been elected to the British House of Commons.

It's a 34% turnout, and in my opinion UKIP got the protest votes. If there were votes in the past for the Lib Dems as protest votes then they all went away this time around because I think a whole lot of people now see the Lib Dems as the left wing of the Conservative Party. Labour and the Greens were the beneficiaries here, cementing the Greens as a 2nd Tier party, along with the Lib Dems and possibly UKIP.

If the vast majority of the country wanted to split from Europe, then we would have seen a whole lot more votes for UKIP than what we see here.

We are seeing more of these fringe parties turn up and get some of the electorate. The English Democrats could have become mainstream except for the influx of disaffected BNP members.

Yes, the UK is nowhere near as diverse as the USA but there's enough diversity to keep the UK a sane place to be.

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
21. I still think the UK is saner, lol.
Mon May 26, 2014, 01:35 PM
May 2014

As an American , I was confused as to why the LibDems would form a coalition with the Conservatives instead of Labour. Was this expected?

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
28. Here's my theory on why the Lib Dems formed a Coalition with the Tories in 2010.
Mon May 26, 2014, 02:52 PM
May 2014

Basically, the Lib Dem leadership desired power. And they were the king-makers.

Apparently they couldn't reconcile with Labour over Gordon Brown's leadership but more importantly Labour weren't ready to have the SNP join in the coalition - as would have been needed to get a non-Tory majority. There was no easy "Rainbow Alliance".

The other option of not being in a coalition but forming a promise of a vote of confidence in a minority Tory government was not palatable, because this wouldn't lead to Lib Dems have any power at all.

Also, the Lib Dems lost a couple of seats (though raising overall share of the vote) and forcing a re-do was not an option for them either as being the kingmakers they believed (IMO rightly) that they would lose that on a second general election.

So, being in the position to join in with the Tories on a coalition best served their interests at that time. They thought that they had negotiated enough with the Tories so that some common ground can be reached on a wide number of issues. They got a promise of a referendum about changing the way Westminster is elected

However, after the initial honeymoon period it became (in my opinion) a wholly Conservative government with the cabinet positions being filled with center-right Lib Dems (Nick Clegg being one of them). To a lot of people, the Lib Dems had basically become Tories known by a different name. The public do not see where having the Lib Dems in the coalition has forced the Tories to moderate any of their positions. Furthermore certain promises made by the Lib Dems in that initial coalition agreement were not upheld by the Lib Dem leadership and that led to more disaffection with the party. The rest we know is history, as are 10 Lib Dem MEPs... and hundreds of Lib Dem councilors across the country in elections after 2010

One example is my childhood borough council (Waverley) - in its latest election *all* the Lib Dem councilors lost their seat - all but one seat went to the Tories... it's changed since then with the independent going Tory and a few Tories go to UKIP). That is how bad it is for the Lib Dems now. To helecting a LibDem MP in Guildford in 2001 and Lib Dem run councils in Waverley and Guildford to no Lib Dems at all in Waverley and the MP is of course a member of the Tory Party.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
32. Probably not expected, but Clegg was a Tory, first.
Mon May 26, 2014, 05:33 PM
May 2014

(He was a member of the "Young Conservatives" at university.)

There was some significant internal opposition to a Lib Dem/Tory pact (Paddy Ashdown and Charles Kennedy for instance both wanted a Labour coalition.)

 

betterdemsonly

(1,967 posts)
25. This would never have happened if
Mon May 26, 2014, 01:57 PM
May 2014

Hollande were not a neoliberal. Most of the French didn't vote. If there is no lefty to vote for, why would they? This will most certainly happen in the UK as well since Millibrand is a neoliberal austerian too.

This would have happened in the US had Obama not evolked MLK. Will probably happen here if Hillary is elected since she is a neoliberal and can't evolk MLK.

People need to stop supporting centrist austerian candidates on the left so ordinary people feel they have something to vote for. Elizabeth Warren is probably the only way to escape it.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
27. They've traded up; they hate Muslims instead of Jews now
Mon May 26, 2014, 02:42 PM
May 2014

In fact a lot of them, like Geert Wilders, use the Israel-Palestine conflict to justify their hatred of Muslims, exploiting Jews to use them as a baffle against arguments that they are bigoted.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm sure plenty still hate Jews - but Europe gets really paranoid if you go on rants against Jews these days. Rant about Muslims, though, rant about Africans or Roma, and you hear cheerleading across the continent and beyond.

sabbat hunter

(6,834 posts)
36. in many countries
Tue May 27, 2014, 06:23 PM
May 2014

the europ skeptic vote went to left wing parties, like in Greece, Italy. And in the Netherlands the far right wing racist party actually lost votes from last time around.

So I do not think the right is on the rise as much as you think.

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