So, we make all the babies and little kids ride in car seats.

[Tumbulu]

We all get jabbed how many times with vaccines to keep us from getting preventable diseases. We have to wear helmets on our bikes and horses; we dress our kids in protective clothing for most every sport.

But any idiot can go get a gun and shoot up anyone they want to?

Why are we so interested in safety for every other situation?

[KarenS]

1. Can't get drunk and drive a car either. n/t

[Thinkingabout]

3. Have to have insurance and a licenses for the vehicle and drivers, dont see

The gubermint seizing the vehicles.

[Tumbulu]

9. Oh yes, and air bags!

and yes such very good points!

[AtheistCrusader]

29. Only on public roads.

No license/registration required for use/possession on private property.
Also, vehicles AND firearms can be confiscated under the circumstances that poster suggested.
RCW 9.41.098

[IoNP]

54. Insurance doesn't cover intentional crimes either....

Can't buy "shoot up the place" insurance...

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Can't get drunk and operate a firearm.

Unlawful in every state I'm aware of. So, not sure what your point was.

In WA it means immediate forfeiture of the firearm (RCW 9.41.098) and depending on what you were doing with the firearm at the time, possibly criminal penalties.

[Jamastiene]

56. Lol, you must not be anywhere near North Carolina on July 4th then.

It might be unlawful technically, but that doesn't stop these drunk assholes from firing their weapons all over the place on July 4th and during other holidays too. Hell, some of my neighbors were out there doing it last Christmas. I have one neighbor who does it anytime he pleases. The cops won't stop them. They never do. So, what are you so worried about?

[AtheistCrusader]

58. What do you mean, 'what am I worried about'.

Call the cops. If the cops won't enforce the law, you have bigger problems.

[Jamastiene]

67. They won't.

You just about have to murder someone (and get caught) to be arrested in my hometown. There has been a serial killer killing women here for over a decade and the only way I found out about it was that the newspaper in the next county over said something about it one time. They don't care what happens to people here. It is like that in a lot of places. I don't get why so many people with guns are so terrified. In the areas where people have the most guns, those laws won't be enforced, just like gun laws on the books now are not really enforced.

[Thinkingabout]

2. Good point.

[Brigid]

4. That's because . . .

The NRA doesn't care about car seats and vaccinations.

[Jamastiene]

57. The NRA doesn't even care about dead kids.

All they care about is guns, guns, and more guns. It is a weird ass obsession. I've known gun owners who were nothing like many posters on DU about guns nor the NRA either. They were for reasonable gun control laws. But, to hear DU gungeon dwellers and the NRA talk, it's their biggest fear, that some Democrat is going to come take their precious guns.

[aikoaiko]

69. ProRKBA types at DU are more concerned about the civil liberties involved

It's really that simple

[ErikJ]

5. Republicans voted against seat belts and air bags too

b/c its cut into their profits.

[neverforget]

6. And now safety features on vehicles are marketed and sold as something you want

because it makes sense.

[onecaliberal]

7. WTF

"Why are we so interested in safety for every other situation?"

When some dumb ass with a gun can carry it anywhere and mow down whomever he feels like it because guns are so accessible. Why is a deadly weapon so easy to get? Why are there people in this country who literally think that women can't be trusted to make decisions about their own bodies but 7 year olds can be trusted with a rifle that can kill people. Where is the sense in their thought process. Where are the people speaking out on the lunacy? Why aren't there more people who think this is insane?

[LAGC]

8. Because the insane have taken over the asylum?

[valerief]

10. Any idiot can buy TONS of guns and leave them around for 4-year-olds to shoot

their siblings with. Cuz, you know, freedumb and shit.

[Tumbulu]

11. Oh yes, but we get a ticket if our kid has a tantrum

and won't sit in the car seat!

Or won't wear their helmet. Oh, but they will accompany us to the gun shop, I suppose.

[Heidi]

13. And when a kid is accidentally killed with a gun, many object to prosecution of the gun owner.

"S/he has been suffered enough. S/he will have to live with this for the rest of his/her life."

[valerief]

14. Yes, they're treated with kid gloves, like affluenza criminals. nt

[AtheistCrusader]

31. Which is weird because

usually the strongest proponents of punishment are to be found here in the gungeon.


I'm one. I reject that line of logic. So what if you 'suffer', you get to LIVE, and the kid does not due to your (not you, the person who left it out) negligence.


I think any incident of a firearm falling into a kid's hands because it wasn't secured by the owner should result in AT LEAST a criminal negligence charge. Whether a fatality results or not.

[onecaliberal]

34. AGREE

[fujiyama]

12. Don't forget the hassles we have to go through to get on a Goddamn airplane

Take off your shoes, take off your belt, go through the rape-scan machine where we are completely violated.

Yet the same idiots that are afraid of the terrissts (brown, they're ALWAYS brown!) would flip out if you suggested reasonable laws or means to ensure that guns don't fall into the hands of lunatics.

[Tumbulu]

41. Great points!!!!!!

yes, we need to add that to the list! Thanks!

[demigoddess]

15. because they identify with the dark ages

back when you needed a gun for hunting dinner or defending your home from marauding indians or cowboys on a rampage. They get most of their worldview from movies!!!

[unblock]

16. there's money to be made off of selling a ton of guns

not so much money to be made not selling vaccines, not selling helmets, etc.

people get so lost in the discussion of policy and strategy and rights and protections and so on that they forget that at its core, the nra is a business lobby representing primarily the interests of those trying to profit from the selling of a product.

[Tumbulu]

42. excellent point- yes, very profitable industry! nt

[Dr Hobbitstein]

17. Contrary to popular belief on DU

Murder is not legal. You are not allowed to just go somewhere and shoot up the place. Just as you're not allowed to drink and drive.

Assholes break the rules. Assholes cause senseless death.

[lark]

20. Wrong

Stand your ground makes murder legal - but only for select groups like white males.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

25. That is a patently false statement...

SYG does not legalize murder. It was an expansion of castle doctrine. Am I a supporter of it? No. But engaging in hyperbole won't change minds.

[noiretextatique]

35. zimmerman murdered trayvon martin

and was acquitted because of SYG. that law makes murder legal.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

39. Except SYG wasn't invoked in that case...

And there have been other cases where SYG was attempted to be invoked (ie, Tampa,FL loud music case), but was denied, even though the victim was white and the aggressor was white.

Do you live in the state of FL? I do. I'm here. I know what goes on in this state LONG before the national media fucks it up.

[lark]

59. Again disagree

When someone can shoot someone else for "texting too loud" during a movie and claim SYG, that's murder - plain and simple.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

60. You can CLAIM SYG all you want...

Doesn't mean you're gonna get anywhere. He claimed SYG. He is NOT free. He is awaiting trial WITHOUT bond.

You can also CLAIM you aren't drunk, but that doesn't make it so.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

21. If assholes couldn't buy guns the gun makers would go broke overnight.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

26. Not statistically.

The vast majority of gun owners are never involved in any sort of gun-related crime. A SMALL minority is. And the majority of that minority obtained their weapons illegally.

I do not own guns, but I support the right to own them, and I also support meaningful legislation aimed at curbing gun violence (universal background checks, better interstate communication of the NICS system, etc). But what we get after shootings like the other day is a bunch of hyperbole from BOTH sides, which gets us exactly nowhere, and ends in a bunch of vicious name calling from BOTH sides.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

40. One of the best kept secrets in DC is that a MAJORITY of Americans don't own a gun.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

44. Who said they did?

The majority of American's don't own a PS3, but Sony's doing fine.

And no, I'm not conflating a game console with a firearm, just making a note that the majority of a country need not purchase something to make it profitable.

But, as I stated earlier, the MAJORITY of gun owners don't need to be punished because of an asshole MINORITY.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

45. Do you consider a registration requirement to be "punishment"?

[Dr Hobbitstein]

46. A national registry?

Yes. That would be a privacy violation.

Universal background checks, and better communication within the NICS would be a good start.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

49. Do you know WHY they don't want a national registry?

It has nothing to do with a government gun grab.

It has EVERYTHING to do with hiding how few people actually HAVE guns from the politicians. If it became known that only 5% of the people in your district were responsible for 97% of gun sales, would you be talking about your love of guns?

[Dr Hobbitstein]

50. I don't own guns...

And I don't want a national registry. And that has nothing to do with "gun grabs", which I find to be unlikely...

It has to do with privacy. A national registry would inherently be public. And a public registry of who owns what is uncalled for.

Once again, the MAJORITY of gun owners are not involved in gun related crime. Why do you want to push further restrictions on them?

This last asshat did just as much damage with a knife as he did with a gun. I would also be opposed to a national knife registry.


And as far as number of people who own guns? It's estimated than about 39-50% of the US population are gun owners. Even at 39%, that's no small number.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

51. "It's estimated than about 39-50% of the US population are gun owners."

By who?

[Dr Hobbitstein]

53. Various polls...

2011 Gallup poll and a 2007 Small Arms Survey are a couple. The Gallup came to 47%. There have been other surveys done throughout the years as well. It's how we get estimates like this.

[Android3.14]

18. Overly simplistic false equivalency

The government does not require vaccinations, nor does it regulate child' sports. The federal government does not have or enforce helmet laws.
It is against federal law to shoot "anyone they want to".
There're a great many effective arguments for regulating guns.
You act as if few gun advocates are concerned about child safety and guns, when all the data indicates otherwise. The issue here, Tumbulu, is the bizarre response to the need for child safety. For the NRA, the response is to pack more firepower. For the extreme gun control folks it's about completely disarming the populace.
There are reasonable ways to advance gun control laws, but telling the gun owning population that they want to endanger children is ineffective.

[MohRokTah]

19. Because all it takes is five old men in black robes to say guns are more important than people. eom

[hack89]

52. They also said that guns can be strictly regulated

You need to stop blaming the 2A for your problems. The simple fact is that you do not have the public support you need.

[Daemonaquila]

22. The "interest in safety" in these examples is part of the problem.

I'd hope that people would start rejecting helmets, protective clothing, zero-tolerance policies, and similar nonsense. It's a sick society that wants to cocoon its children (and even adults) at every turn. The analogy doesn't work when the excessive worry is neither reasonable nor laudable.

[The_Commonist]

23. I don't remember where I saw it recently...

...and I would like to give the proper attribution, so if any of you know where this notion originated, please let me know:

"When did 'A Well-Regulated Militia' Become an Unregulated, Well-Armed Populace?"

This needs to be spoken all day, every day...

[Tumbulu]

43. That is a great line to repeat

yes, thanks!

[aikoaiko]

70. We do not have an unregulated armed populace.

Nevertheless well-regulated modifies the militia and not the people whose right to keep and bear are shall not be infringed.

That's true no matter which meaning of well-regulated you use.

[Dawgs]

24. Better question is, why do let the ignorant and uninformed elect anti-safety republicans? n/t

[tclambert]

27. Good point. All non gun owners should have to wear body armor at all times.

Problem solved. (Gun owners can forego the armor because they can shoot back. So everybody now has to buy guns or armor or both. You can buy both if you're a wuss.)

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. In the Land of the Gun Nut Shithead, The Holy Hobby is first priority

I at least respect the bought and paid for reps. It's the gunner believers that are too dumb to contemplate.

[Ineeda]

32. And there are low speed limits and 'drug-free' zones

around schools but "...if you take a close look at state laws, you'll see that more than a third of the states actually allow teachers and other adults to carry guns in schools... In general, the only thing that an armed adult needs in those states is the equivalent of a principal's note to carry a weapon, according to NBC News. In other words, you don't need law enforcement approval."

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2013/01/which-states-allow-guns-in-schools.html

Puts a whole different spin on the phrase 'drugs kill' doesn't it?

[Laelth]

33. Let's go point-by-point.

1) We make all the babies and little kids ride in car seats. (Yes, we do because the insurance companies insisted upon it. They don't want to get sued.)

2) We all get jabbed how many times with vaccines to keep us from getting preventable diseases. (Yes, we do because the AMA says that's "best practices" and the insurance companies won't cover doctors unless those doctors practice "best practices." Schools won't admit students who don't have shots, and, just like the doctors, it's because they don't want to get sued.)

3) We have to wear helmets on our bikes and horses. (Yep. More lawsuit fear. These are regulations pushed by insurance companies.)

4) We dress our kids in protective clothing for most every sport. (Yes, we do, because the organizations who sponsor these teams won't allow people to play without the protective gear, and that's because--you guessed it--they don't want to get sued, and the insurance companies who insure these organizations require the wearing of protective gear.)

Bottom line ... if you want a safety regulation, convince the insurance companies that the regulation you propose will save them money.

Of course, the 2nd Amendment is a bit of a niggle, here, and that might explain why the insurance companies haven't gotten very involved in the gun control business.

Besides which, I argue, Gun control is a losing issue for Democrats.

-Laelth

[sellitman]

36. I still don't understand their hatred of

Smart Guns.

Makes no sense at all.

[IkeRepublican]

38. Because their main contributors didn't come up with it

You can safely bet if the usual contributors came up with it and patented it, they'd be pushing the things like nobody's business.

[hack89]

63. It is not the guns themselves but the legislation, actual and proposed, linked to them

NJ has a law that says that once single smart gun is on the market then within 3 years only smart guns can be sold in the state. Senator Markey introduced a similar national bill. They are nothing but back door gun bans.

[aikoaiko]

71. It's because civilians will be forced to use then only.

That is the main concern.

With guns the simpler the better. There are a lot of extreme physics involved when firing a gun and electronics can easily become a problem.

I suspect that when smart gun technology is required by police and military personell, the civilian crowd wil also accept it because it will have been proven.

[IkeRepublican]

37. It's lobbying, as usual

Child safety and gun ownership interests are powerful groups. Doesn't matter if the end logic is contradictory.

As the old saying goes - money talks and bullshit walks.

[Aerows]

47. Excellent question

It really puts things into perspective, doesn't it?

[HeiressofBickworth]

48. We cherish them, nuture them, keep them safe

and then send them off to wars with no legal or logical basis.

[Tumbulu]

62. yes, so horribly true!

I guess that was the sentiment for the original Mother's day as well, so this has ben going on for way way way too long!

[Jamastiene]

55. My medicine came in the mail the other day.

It had the transparent tamper proof plastic on the lid. Once I opened it, it had that Styrofoam feeling stuff that covers the opening of the bottle too. It took me forever to get into that bottle of medicine. I understand one or the other for protection because of that asshole who poisoned a bunch of people back in the 80s (or was it in the 70s? I can't remember). But BOTH? Fuck that noise.

I swear I think they are getting ready to start selling suits and shirts and other clothes made out of Kevlar or something. It's the only logical solution because we can't seem to get the NRA to STFU and let us have a few reasonable gun laws. Silly us, trying to make a few small gun laws that would stop some of this nonsense. :eyesroll:

We don't want to get shot, but they don't care. As long as they have their precious guns, rocket launchers, flame throwers, grenade launchers, harpoons, and bazookas, the rest of us can all either die or get maimed by the assholes who get pissed off and have guns, will travel. They just don't care. I guess it is time for us to pony up and start giving money to the gun lobby by buying Kevlar for protection, because they don't want to own a reasonable amount of guns and ammo, but instead build arsenals and go out and shoot people when their angry white male privilege is challenged.

[Tumbulu]

61. Yes, I forgot about all that safety stuff on the medicine bottles!

Such good points! Thanks.

[JVS]

64. No, there are laws against shooting people.

[alp227]

65. but how did they get their guns in the first place? nt

[JVS]

66. Would you ask how someone got the car to drive a kid around with no seat?

Would you ask how parents who don't vaccinate were allowed to get custody of children in the first place?


They bought the guns for ostensibly legal uses.

[ileus]

68. I do all of these plus carry a

firearm for the safety of my family.