I have no issue with guns; however I do have an issue with people who want to carry them everywhere

[LynneSin]

You may love guns and you may post a reply to this thread about how you are the safest gun owner out there. How you had years of practice training, technical training and experience that would make you the absolutely safest person ever to carry a gun in public.

So my issue is this - how do I distinguish the well-trained gun owners from the George Zimmerman wannabes? Because our country is getting to the point that you could walk into your local library or fast food restaurant or bar and wonder just that.

And with the increase in these mass shootings, more and more each year, we will have no clue if that person carrying a gun is just trying to express their 2nd Amendment rights or has years of mental instability looking to take it out on a bunch of people with their high-powered guns.

Which means for the sane people in this country the large majority of us who prefer to live without guns or would rather keep their guns at home safely stored away - we now will have to live in fear. Walking into a public place and seeing someone with a gun - fear of not knowing if this person means harm or is harmless.

I know right now I am lucky - I live in a pretty blue state that will prevent this kind of stuff happening. But things could change. If I saw these 2 people walk into my local coffee shop or restaurant I would drop to the ground and start dialing 911. People should not have to live like that!



No one should live a life in fear and that is what these gun idiots are creating.

[LeftFieldMom]

1. I'm baffled

Hi LynneSin

The woman I date is a staunch gun rights supporter (2nd Amendment Lover when it suits her need)...she knows I am NOT for unrestricted, free range, anything goes that shoots a bullet....

I will say...that she goes SILENT whenever there is a mass shooting/kid shooting/family dispute shooting and on and on....she can't defend it...and she KNOWS it...

I hope that someday she will see will see the light...

[LynneSin]

4. Nothing wrong with supporting the right to own guns

I'm going to assume (hopefully that isn't a stretch) that she isn't lugging hardcore weaponry along with her when you guys go out on a date.

I have dated gun owners with no problems; I just don't want to see the guns or spend all the time talking about the guns. I mean I collect vinyl records and old Atlas books and my conversation on them will last maybe 10 minutes tops even if I bring it up. I did date one guy who wanted to carry and I tried to be open about it until he got too drunk and started doing crazy stuff. No he wasn't pointing it at me or anyone else but just playing around with it - I was worried that something would accidentally go off and that freaked me out. (and I ditched him a week later when he said he refused to leave his guns at home when we go out on a date. I have limits and that crossed it).

Hopefully your gal is a smart gun owner like my relatives are - guns are a good hobby but should be left at home and secured. If you can get that from her then you got a decent gal.

BTW welcome to DU - honored that your first post was to me

[LeftFieldMom]

11. Define Hardcore weaponry...

Hey Lynne -

No hardcore weaponry that I know of...although she did get her conceal carry permit last year..not sure what she's got on her when we're out and about.

She took me out shooting a few years back and it scared the heck out of me...I'm sure she wanted me to get 'okay' with holding and shooting a gun...It's just not in my DNA. I suppose that if someone was threatening someone I loved, I would be able to pull a trigger in a life and death situation..but the general concept of owning 20 or so guns...because it was my 'right' is just lost on me.

Thank you for the welcome -I plan on being a very active member and thank you for taking the time to respond to my first post.

[Anansi1171]

30. Why not ask her if and what shes carrying when you are in her company?

Wouldnt you want to know?

Hopefully she can at least express her belief when these tragedies occur; even if that belief is likely very unsympathetic to the victims. You know that she will ultimately blame the victims for being unarmed, so it wont come as a shock.

[Hoyt]

2. Yeah, those two supposedly law-abiding gun fanciers are the problem with today's gun laws and gun

culture.

I'm like you. Keep a gun or two at home if you need too, but let's not pollute society further.

[Stryst]

10. I used to hunt

I kept a rifle, a shotgun, and a revolver. None of them left thei cases until I was in the woods. Decent people don't like like scaring their fellows.

[LynneSin]

12. amen and alleluia

Gun owners I know (and I know plenty) feel the safest place for their guns is at home and secured (but accessible should there be a home invasion).

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

3. I'd tackle them and beat the shit out of them myself

To me it's the same as if a guy gets up on a plane post 9/11 and says he's hijacking it. Assume you are going to die anyway and tackle them and beat the shit out of them.

Assume you are about to be slaughtered because some asshole didn't get to be the starting centerfielder for the Boston Red Sox (Denis Leary reference) or some other unfair thing, and defend yourself against the ridiculous amount of firepower you are being faced with from, at very least, a bully. Remember, you can do that in a great blue state. Red state, you have to be polite and wait for the fucker to put a few in someone else and hopefully not you before you can do anything.

[LynneSin]

5. That might work for us up in the Northeast

Not sure what Rhode Island laws are but I get the impression that most of the NE states aren't hardcore 'carry our bigass rifles everywhere' type citizens.

I like your spirit but if you lived in the south you might be doing alot of tackling since it seems everyone wants to carry their guns everywhere. We'd be fun hanging out in Texas - you'll be tackling while I'm under a table somewhere calling 911.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

6. Yeah, I amended my post

Down South I guess you just have to pray.

Sadly, some asshole pulled a gun and shot someone Sunday here in RI at the place I used to work during a cookout.

[LynneSin]

8. You don't have to do that

Hopefully this gun craziness won't get too hardcore up here in the NE (well you never know with New Hampshire but the rest are pretty sane).

If anything you validated my point - when people start seeing guns being carried in public there is going to be plenty of fear generated by it. For some of us we'll be under the table hiding and others will try to prevent any harm from happening.

People should not have to live like that doing something simple like buying coffee or dinner.

[Major Nikon]

7. Guns make people less safe, not more safe

And people who want to express their "freedom" to foolishly carry around a gun are making those around them less safe, not more safe.

[LynneSin]

9. I look at that photo of those 2 people carrying guns...

I see people who were probably made to be outsiders all of their lives. Maybe they were picked on in school or maybe they were abused by a family member or maybe they were rejected by someone they had a crush on them. I see alot of low self esteem and they think that the guns will somehow give them that courage that they were lacking all of their lives.

I read about that kid who did the latest shooting in California (the one whose dad is a director). He felt rejected by women and used guns to somehow compensate for that rejection.

People who are secure in who they are do not need to carry guns around with them. And even for those of us who aren't that secure (raises hand here), I find other outlets other than carrying unneeded oversize weapons that do nothing but instill fear into those who see me.

[beevul]

31. You are wrong.

"He felt rejected by women and used guns to somehow compensate for that rejection."

Your entire premise about the guy is wrong.

"Going to the shooting range while I waited for my laptop gave me the perfect opportunity to gain some initial training in shooting guns, which will be the main weapons I use as vengeance against my enemies when the Day of Retribution ultimately comes to pass. I walked into the range, rented a handgun from the ugly old redneck cashier, and started to practice shooting at paper targets. As I fired my first few rounds, I felt so sick to the stomach. I questioned my whole life, and I looked at the gun in front of me and asked myself “What am I doing here? How could things have led to this?” I couldn’t believe my life was actually turning out this way. There I was, practicing shooting with real guns because I had a plan to carry out a massacre. Why did things have to be this way, I silently questioned myself as I looked at the handgun I was holding in front of me. I paid my fee and left the range within minutes, feeling as if I was going to be sick."

That's from the assholes manifesto. Notice how it says "initial training"?

This asshole had nothing to do with guns, until he decided to use them to kill people.

Its not like his parents were "gun culture":

"Shifman said the family is "staunchly against guns" and supports gun-control laws. "They are extremely, extremely upset that anybody was hurt under these circumstances," he said."

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/05/24/7-dead-in-drive-by-shooting-near-uc-santa-barbara/20892001/?icid=maing-grid7

[Scootaloo]

13. That's pretty much it

We'd think people were weird if they went everywhere with their garden tools and vacuum cleaners, too.

Though given the effort it takes to kill someone with a dirt devil compared to a pistol, maybe we should be a little more understanding of people who vacuum their seats at every restaraunt.

[KT2000]

14. they are flashers

they want to get a reaction, scare people and control an environment. They get to stop kids' baseball games, ruin a night out for dinner and anything else they want to ruin.
They are in control.

[JoeyT]

15. K&R

That's basically how I feel too. Even if we completely discount mass shootings or intentional killings, people lugging guns around in public will still increase the chance of an accidental shooting.

[progree]

16. "how do I distinguish the well-trained gun owners from the George Zimmerman wannabes?"

Tom Tomorrow has some thoughts on this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025005022

[pablo_marmol]

17. You actually have VERY little to worry about.

Year after year, in state after state - the general public is convicted of crime at a rate 5 - 6 times higher than concealed carry permit holders.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm

For those who insist on being diminished by irrational fear, there is not much that can done.

[Major Nikon]

19. "irrational fear" means feeling the need to carry precious around everywhere you go

So I'm not really sure you want to go there.

There's plenty wrong with your statistical analysis, but regardless of how much you think you can write off the increased risk to the public as "irrational fear" you are still left with the reality that whatever the risk it's completely unnecessary and must be accepted by the general public solely to coddle those who actually do have "irrational fear".

[pablo_marmol]

36. "There's plenty wrong with your statistical analysis....."

But yet you can't elaborate. Apparently in your mind "Because I say so" represents a cogent argument.

The pro-restriction supporters can lie all they want about the "dangers" of concealed carry -- the unimpeachable law enforcement stats don't lie, and can't be denied.

[upaloopa]

24. Fear? Hez's not the one who needs to carry a gun

because a bad guy might be around the next corner. Look in the mirrow to see someone with irrational fear!

[awoke_in_2003]

33. +1000. nt

[gwheezie]

18. I'm kinda conservative small c

I think it's rude to carry ak47's and rifles around to the store, how do you carry your grocery bags to the car if you have to sling your weapon around? I have enough problems trying to figure out what to do with my purse when I sit on a bar stool, I can't imagine what I'd do with a rifle. But then again, I wouldn't wear shorts and flip flops to a funeral but I've seen it done. It just seems like you want to draw attention to yourself to make some kind of point that is lost on most people.
A few years ago, some goofball was standing on an I95 overpass outside Richmond Va during rush hour with his rifle because it was his right. For heaven's sake, this was after the dc sniper terror. He had the gun nuts all riled up because the cops questioned him, they didn't arrest him, just questioned him. According to the gun nuts he had a right to stand there and scare the hell out of everyone not to mention the poor cops who had no idea what they were dealing with. What in the world would make someone do that? Plenty of folks are armed here, someone could have shot this dope for scaring the bejeesus out of them.

[hobbit709]

20. I own half a dozen weapons. I inherited them all.

I haven't fired a weapon of any kind for 40 years.
These idiots with their parading around all festooned with their toys disgust me.

[Lee-Lee]

21. Those two idiots are not representative of most gun owners

They just were attention seekers who got what they wanted. Labeling them as typical gun owners is as wrong as when the fundies find the most outrageous picture of two gay men at a pride parade and claim all gay men go around dressed in leather simulating sex acts in public all day long (been there, saw that on a my first and last visit to a new church).

I do carry concealed, and even teach the class so others can here in NC (although with a new job it's been a few months since I was able) and those idiots are not representative of typical gun owners. In fact while I haven't talked to a lot of people about it since that picture surfaced the general tone that I have heard is that they are idiots.

Do I carry every day, every where? No. Do I open carry? No. Do I carry often? Yes. Do I carry in places not allowed by law? No. Have I had to draw my gun and use it? Draw yes, I did not have to shoot just seeing it changed the would be attackers mind.

So don't do the small minded thing and judge all gun owners by the actions of two attention seeking morons. I don't think you would find a single gun owner on here who thinks these two are anything but fools.

[LynneSin]

25. Small minded really? Don't even go there.

I just said that I have no way of judging the person who knows what they are doing from those that don't. It's not like when you carry a certain aura surrounds you that ensure everyone who sees you that 'Yes this is a person who is well trained on how to use a weaopon'. It's kinda like your gay analogy - not every outlandish dressed person is gay. I've seen some very conservative looking ones that most people upon sight would not know they are gay and I've seen some people who act and dress outlandishly be as straight as can be. In the end I have learned NOT to assume anyone is gay unless that person comes up to me and says 'I'm gay'.

Thing is this - I have no clue if that person walking into a business and sitting down next to me knows how to use a gun or not and that is how most of us feel when we see someone in public carrying a gun. More and more I'm seeing photos of really normal looking people in the news and they walked into a school or a theater or some other public place and went bat-shit crazy with their guns.

And you may call it 'my small mind' but I call it my safety. Yes I know that it's guns that do not kill - guns are incapable of doing anything if they are just lying there untouched by anyone. But it's people who carry guns that kill people and everyday I see photos of people who use their guns to kill other people and they don't look 'outlandish' - they look like everyday people who just happen to have alot of mental anguish buried deep inside them that makes them feel they need to go out and kill people. Hell even George Zimmerman didn't look like a killer yet because he carried a gun he felt he had the ability to play vigilante against a 17 year old unarmed kid whose only 'crime' was to be walking at the wrong place at the wrong time.

So maybe our minds are 'small' but that means we are the type of people who will want to avoid being around people carrying guns. Maybe you feel safer but those who don't know you and are around you do NOT feel safer.

oh and edit note - where you fail with your 'gay analogy' is this. If I'm standing in a coffee shop or some other place next to that outlandish dressing gay person, I have absolutely nothing to fear with my life. Unfortunately someone carrying a gun - not the same feeling.

[jeff47]

26. Until you can tattoo the foreheads of "responsible gun owners"

I'm gonna have to assume every one of them is 2 seconds away from starting the next mass shooting.

Why? Simple cost-benefit analysis. If I assume he's a "responsible gun owner" and he's not, I die. If I assume he's insane and he's not, pretty much nothing happens - I've left the area.

With the virtually non-existent gun control in this country, I'm gonna keep assuming anyone walking around with a gun is crazy. Feel that's an insult? Well then start pushing for more gun control, so that the people still have guns are actually "responsible gun owners".

[Ikonoklast]

27. Sorry. No True Scotsman.

Those two are as much part of your philosophy as anyone else carrying, they are part and parcel members in good standing of the armed in public community the same as you.

[NutmegYankee]

22. I'm actually not a supporter of carry, either open or concealed.

I think it should be limited to transport to a range or hunting ground, with open carry in the woods for hunting an obvious exception.

[newfie11]

23. I live in Western SD

Most folks own guns here in western SD (maybe with the exception of people living in Rapid City).

A concealed carry permit here requires only that you fill out paperwork and pay your money. No required classes and I'm not saying that's a good thing, just the facts.

I own a 22 rifle given to me 56 years ago and a black powder rifle.
I'm not against guns, just curious why there is such a difference in different parts of this country.
Several years ago some tourist were shot during a gunfight reenactment in Hill City.
This by one of the "performers" and done intentionally as he was supposed to be shooting blanks and not aiming at tourists.
I've wondered why the obsession with firearms across the country.
Why in my part of SD many people do have rifles or guns in their vehicles but no mass shootings and no parading around town carrying assault rifles. At least not since Wild Bill Hickock, Annie Oakley, or my favorite Fly Speck Billy (before he was hanged).

[Turbineguy]

28. I think the thing to do is to promptly leave

especially if you are in a restaurant or some business. Once people conclude that there is an economic cost (to them) to this sort of idiocy, changes will come about.

In a proper civilized society people should not have to decide "are you a good guy with a gun, or a bad guy with a gun?"

[awoke_in_2003]

34. Make sure to tell the manager...

why you are leaving.

[mariema]

29. They are attention whores

To be precise, they are self-indulgent, self-absorbed, obnoxious, attention whores.

[awoke_in_2003]

32. We have a bunch of open carry...

advocate nutcases popping up all over down here in DFW. If I see them, I am leaving as quickly as is prudent.

[flvegan]

35. That little guy on the right is brandishing.

In most parts of Florida, he's likely to get his ass shot himself. I do sincerely appreciate the Tabasco Protection Squad being on point in that picture. Sigh. At any rate...

I agree with you in part and disagree in part. I have no problem with concealed carry. It's worked here pretty well for a while. Rifles like those in the picture have no place anywhere outside of a gun case at home or on the way to the range or in the hands of the police or military.

I'd be happy with a certification/re-certification for all concealed carry. We do it with other licenses. Hell, I'd be more than happy with continuing education credits. I have to do it to write title insurance, why not if I have a license to carry a sidearm unconcealed.