EXCLUSIVE: Edward Snowden Tells Brian Williams: 'I Was Trained as a Spy'

[ProSense]

EXCLUSIVE: Edward Snowden Tells Brian Williams: 'I Was Trained as a Spy'

By Erin McClam

dward Snowden, in an exclusive interview with "Nightly News" anchor Brian Williams, is fighting back against critics who dismissed him as a low-level hacker — saying he was “trained as a spy” and offered technical expertise to high levels of government.

Snowden defended his expertise in portions of the interview that aired at 6:30 p.m. ET on Nightly News. The extended, wide-ranging interview with Williams, his first with a U.S. television network, airs Wednesday at 10 p.m. ET on NBC.

“I was trained as a spy in sort of the traditional sense of the word, in that I lived and worked undercover overseas — pretending to work in a job that I’m not — and even being assigned a name that was not mine,” Snowden said in the interview.

Snowden described himself as a technical expert who has worked for the United States at high levels, including as a lecturer in a counterintelligence academy for the Defense Intelligence Agency and undercover work for the CIA and National Security Agency.

- more -

http://www.nbcnews.com/#/feature/edward-snowden-interview/exclusive-edward-snowden-tells-brian-williams-i-was-trained-spy-n115746

[7wo7rees]

1. Daniel Ellsberg stands behind this young man along with

Ray McGovern. That is all I need to know. And I have had the pleasure and privilege of spending time with each of them.

[grasswire]

6. Snowden is on the right side of history.

Did you read that other thread posted tonight written by the Columbia law professor on the magnitude of Snowden's actions and our obligation as American citizens to support those actions?

[randome]

8. Sibel Edmonds, Bernie Sanders, Jimmy Carter all say he should face his crimes.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Vattel]

20. I hope they don't expect him to rot in a supermax prison for decades.

That would be crazy.

[randome]

90. Why would they? He deserves time but I would hope it wouldn't be excessive.

The man is very confused. Hopefully, if he doesn't try to deny what he did, he would get some leniency for that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[msanthrope]

97. Given his neurological disorder, I would think he'd qualify for medical pardon, and certainly would

be housed in a medical unit.

[Vattel]

108. I didn't realize he was diagnosed with a neurological disorder.

[msanthrope]

109. Late onset seizure disorder is what he claimed to his bosses at BAH. Must suck, not being able to

drink in Mother Russia.

[Vattel]

113. Why would that get you a medical pardon?

[msanthrope]

116. It might not. It might get him Butner. nt

[Vattel]

107. "The man is very confused." The smears never stop.

[anti partisan]

66. Actually, Sanders doesn't care about Snowden because it's the wrong discussion

He posted this article on his web page:

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/why-i-dont-care-about-edward-snowden

Also I don't think Edmonds said that he should "face his crimes".

And lastly, even if they did, I am only convinced by reasoning, not appeals to authority.

[woo me with science]

14. Please link and kick it if you can,

and I will keep doing the same.

Thanks.

[grasswire]

16. the comments section is excellent

as usual for the Guardian

[dem in texas]

2. Snowden is nothing but a spoiler.

he is not a spy, he is a spoiler who should never have been allowed in the NSA network, with his background, he went signed on with the NSA with the intention of causing trouble. NSA, right or wrong, Snowden is a distraction to the main problem.

[MohRokTah]

3. This guy has really gone off the deep end now.

Spy my ass.

[HipChick]

7. agree...

[Historic NY]

32. He has made boasts that don't reconcile with his record..

a failed army recruit, w/o a hs diploma, okay...special forces recruit, even the army disowns that. CIA security guard become an undercover operative....secret squirrel.

He hasn't produced one shred of evidence to supoort any of this.

[anti partisan]

70. Why should he have to prove any of that?

It simply doesn't matter. He is a whistleblower and the only thing he has to show is the authenticity of his documents. Attributes of the source of the documents (Snowden himself) is completely irrelevant.

[davekriss]

88. Absolutely agree w you

All this energy spent attacking the messenger is energy wasted, period.

The powers that be certainly seed it, but we should not help it grow. Snowden's character and mental health are wholly irrelevant. What he exposed is absolutely relevant and where we should focus our attention.

Doesn't anyone find it curious that so many anti-establishment figures that get media attention are shortly thereafter brought down because of one or more accusations of personal malfeasance? Do we realize that seeding lies in the media about "enemy" leaders is standard operating procedure, once taught to the security police of dictators at our School of the Americas? So many take the bait hook, line, and sinker. Because after all, if Snowden was "possibly" after personal fame or fortune, or if he is "possibly" a deluded psychopath, then we "should" ignore the hundreds of thousands of documents establishing that the U.S. has created it's own Stasi and has turned it on its own citizens!

[grasswire]

118. excellent

absolutely THE point here.

[anti partisan]

69. He WAS a spy

The NSA spies, and he worked for the NSA in their spy programs. Thus a spy, wow!

I have no clue why ProSense is pretending this is some kind of news. I think he wants to still believe Snowden is a Russian spy.

[struggle4progress]

4. Sure sounds to me like the poor kid has gone round the bend

Some of his early claims were weird -- such as his alleged ability to wiretap the President

And that fact -- that Greenwald, despite portraying himself as a journalist, decided it was important to squash release of the kid's "manifesto" as being too Unabomber-ish -- rather suggests that even Greenwald found some of Snowden's thinking too strange for public consumption

The evidence begins to indicate, I think, that the kid is a serial prevaricator: the question is whether his misrepresentations are deliberate or whether they are symptoms of some psychological disease

[grasswire]

5. that is a disgusting assertion

....and I hope that some of the DU members who are offended by toxic use of mental illness as a way of discrediting someone will tell you how they feel about this, as well.

[struggle4progress]

9. What discredits him is his habit of saying things that are untrue. Less clear is whether

this behavior is under his control or not

[grasswire]

17. more insidious assertions of mental illness...

.....in those who question authority.

Shame on you.

[struggle4progress]

55. Oh, I'm happy to have people question authority. And I've said for years here

that I believe a certain healthy paranoia can fruitfully guide one's thinking about how to search for facts. Nor have I ever made suggested that everyone questioning authority is mentally ill

If people want to figure out how to downsize the overblown US military, fight back against US intervention abroad, educate people about the real dangers of our current national security establishment and work towards limiting it, I think those are all worthy projects

I've tried repeatedly here to get people to think about what step we could take to move forward: if one can organize for taking one step forward, then (win or lose) one can organize again for taking another step forward

But I think you merely promote cynicism, and that is a lazy substitute for careful analysis based on carefully obtained facts. And mouthing support for confused ideologues like Assange or Manning or Snowden is another lazy substitute for careful analysis based on carefully obtained facts. In the end, such lazy substitutes won't carry us anywhere: maybe cynicism, or adopting folk like Assange or Manning or Snowden as symbols of the struggle, makes you feel smart and righteous -- but it won't lead anywhere. The change has to come through political means, but promoting cynicism ultimately promotes depression and inaction

You're free to adopt Assange or Manning or Snowden as heroes -- but in my view, you're just pointing chasing the wind: the real game isn't in the outraged voice of complaint, or in smart-ass cynicism about the current state of affairs, but in the nitty-gritty hard work of learning by experience where we can effectively push today and (when tomorrow comes) where we can effectively push again

[Luminous Animal]

62. It is impossible to do the nitty-gritty without information. Snowden and Manning were the suppliers.

Poitras, Assange, Greenwald, and Gellman are the 4th Estate who conveyed that info, precisely the people enshrined in the first amendment to check government excess.

Without Snowden, Manning, Binney, Drake, etc. Without these people that you trivialize as "complainers', without these people who risked their liberty, we'd have little basis to take action.

Their lives have been destroyed. And you trivialize that by calling them complainers. You can't move a mountain unless you know the shape of that mountain. Snowden, Manning, Binney, Drake, provided the techs for that shape. Greenwald and Assage provided the cartography.

[struggle4progress]

65. I personally think folk should organize to get Drake a pardon

and I'd rather appreciate it if you would state your own views rather than making up bullshit and pretending it came from my mouth

[Luminous Animal]

73. Maybe you should be better at expressing your opinion...

"You're free to adopt Assange or Manning or Snowden as heroes -- but in my view, you're just pointing chasing the wind: the real game isn't in the outraged voice of complaint"


Who, in your opinion isn't playing the real game? Because, in that quoted sentence above, you seem to be pointing to Assange, Manning, and Snowden.

Are you aware that Drake supports Snowden?

Are you aware that there is a network of people who support Drake and have since his arrest and indictment? I've been a member for years. As has been Greenwald.

[struggle4progress]

78. It would be courteous of you to speak for yourself and not put words in my mouth

[Luminous Animal]

79. Who are these complainers that aren't doing the hard work?

Snowden, Greenwald, Binney, Drake, Poitras, Manning, Assange... all did the hard work...

ACLU, EFF, Freedom of the Press Foundation, the Guardian, Der Spiegal, WaPo, Wikileaks, all support that hard work.

So. Who are the complainers.

[treestar]

91. Great post s4p

seems a new victim meme exists. Now we can't discuss mental illness.

[sabrina 1]

114. So, Whistle Blowers are 'mentally ill' now? But Bush's loyal NSA spies are perfectly sane!

Why are Bush's appointees still running the NSA? It's been nearly six years since we put a Democrat in the WH. Got any explanation as to why Bush's NSA is still in place?

You know, the one we caught spying on the American people which absolutely OUTRAGED the 'left' at the time??

Don't know about you, but this Liberal is still outraged by Bush's NSA, his best and most loyal buddy, Clapper who lied to Congress and that they are still spying on the American people.

[msanthrope]

83. The fact is that Snowden himself disclosed a late-onset seizure disorder that raises serious, and I

mean serious.....neurological concerns. Heck--we don't even know if it is a seizure disorder, or, another illness. You'd be surprised how many drugs treat seizures, and psychiatric symptoms.

The number-one leading cause of late onset seizure disorder is alcoholism. While that may not be the case with Snowden, I'd be damn, damn interested in reading the suppressed manifesto.

[grasswire]

98. oh my god

And you are the parent of a child with a disability.

I am the parent of an adult child with seizure disorder. To insinuate that epileptics are mentally ill is outrageous. Just outrageous.

And it's ignorant, too.

[msanthrope]

102. I used the term "neurological" not "mental." As you are the parent of an adult

child with seizure disorder, I am sure you can appreciate the difference between the two, and I expect that you will apologize to me for implying that I do not.

[grasswire]

104. "psychiatric symptoms", "alcoholism"

You conflated epilepsy with those disorders. Slyly, of course.

The notion that an epileptic should be suspected of one of those is akin to saying that autistic persons might be suffering from psychiatric symptoms or alcoholism.

See how outrageous and damaging that is?

[msanthrope]

105. I used "neurological" as opposed to "mental" precisely to avoid conflation. But there's no doubt

that's Mr. Snowden's bizarre and grandiose behavior, along with his prevarication, and frankly, silly claims, indicate that it's entirely possible that he is 1) lying about having epilepsy, or 2) co-morbid, or 3) a liar about epilepsy and yet suffers from something else.

Bizarre and grandiose behavior, which he has demonstrated, is a psychiatric symptom. Alcoholism is the leading cause of adult onset seizures. There are seizure medications prescribed for schizophrenia. These are all medical facts.

You wrote:

The notion that an epileptic should be suspected of one of those is akin to saying that autistic persons might be suffering from psychiatric symptoms or alcoholism.

Well, yes--like the population in general, some autistic persons may be co-morbid. That doesn't mean they all are. Certainly, if an autistic person was behaving as bizarrely as Mr. Snowden was, I would seek to have them evaluated--not for their autism, but for their behavior. But I have yet to come across an autistic person as narcissistic as Mr. Snowden. (Did you think that picking on my daughter's disability was appropriate? why?)

You still haven't explained why Glenn Greenwald suppressed Snowden's manifesto. Why???

[grasswire]

111. but "bizarre and grandiose" and "liar" are attributes...

...that YOU (not a psychiatrist or psychologist or even M.D.) assign to Snowden.

You are way over your pay grade asserting that Snowden may have or had "psychiatri" issues or alcoholism because you consider his actions grandiose and bizarre.

It's just a cheap way of mudslinging.

[msanthrope]

117. They are attributes anyone can freely assign him after witnessing his antics. He's a 'spy' now?

Come on....

Again---where is this manifesto? Why must it be suppressed?

[woo me with science]

115. Just when we thought the smear attempts could not possibly sink lower or become more despicable...

Should have realized that the very serious business of protecting the NSA and smearing its critics doesn't *have* limits. I always make the same mistake with the other corporate talking points, too...assuming that there will be some sort of boundary of decency that won't be crossed.

Snide allusions to fabricated alcoholism, suggestions that he should be institutionalized...

I keep forgetting that corporate ethics are not the same as human ethics.

[KamaAina]

101. Did he?

Link, please?

[msanthrope]

103. Indeed--he not only disclosed it, he told his bosses at BAH he was flying to HK for

treatment of it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/01/edward-snowden-intelligence-leak-nsa-contractor-extract

[DisgustipatedinCA]

11. Lots of people have lied about Snowden. Snowden hasn't been caught lying.

Bring your proof or get in line with the rest of the accusers who have no factual backup.

[struggle4progress]

12. (1) There's no chance he had the ability to wiretap the president, as he claimed. If true,

it would produce a gigantic shake-up of the national security apparatus. And if you ask us to believe it's true, you're also asking us to be extraordinarily alarmed by his theft of a million and a half files and by his eventually migration to Russia

(2) There's no reason to think he brought his concerns to officials ten times or so before stealing files and running off to Hong Kong as he claimed. Folk who want us to believe this also take the view that whistle-blowers are in great danger in the US: if so, wouldn't his repeated efforts, to tell officials he thought NSA activities were illegal, have made him a target himself and produced at least a revocation of his security clearance?

(3) He contacted Poitras before he took the job at BAH, which he says he took to gain access to the files. While at BAH, he obtained by false pretexts passwords from various co-workers enabling him to access those files. These acts involved considerable dishonesty

(4) He claimed to have broken his legs while in Special Forces training. Since he had only a GED and no high school diploma, he would not have been eligible for such training

(5) Now he claims he was trained as a spy and was so good at it that he gave lectures on the subject at DIA and elsewhere. It's not credible. If it were true, it would have been great in Greenwald's original story. It wasn't in that story because the kid just recently invented it

[951-Riverside]

21. Re "There's no chance he had the ability to wiretap the president"

Whats your proof or evidence?

Back in the 1980's anyone with wideband radio receiver could listen into Regan's airforce one calls, back in the 90's Prince Charles phone calls could easily be tapped into so were Newt Gingrich's phone calls and just this year the Russians tapped Victoria Nuland's phone calls and posted it online.

Not to mention there are cameras all over the white house that the secret service uses to keep track of the President, VP and family. People presume that the president and other high ranking officials use top notch security when in reality its completely the opposite.

[struggle4progress]

25. The 1997 Gingrich mobile phone call was captured on an ordinary police scanner; in the conversation

between Charles and Camilla in 1989, she was also using a mobile phone; similarly, Nuland's 2014 conversation was conducted on an unsecured cell phone. Such technology has long been known to be easily captured

Reagan had access to encrypted voice communications, and Airforce One then and has since had both encrypted and non-encrypted communications. There's always a large volume of ordinary communication between the White House and external entities, for which there is no guarantee that the outside party is using a landline, so in principle it is frequently possible to capture some White House communication, if one is in the right place in the country and in possession of the right equipment

Snowden's claim, however, was different: it was that he had the ability to wiretap the President from the computer at his desk. It's bullshit, for the reasons I stated earlier

[Luminous Animal]

22. In rebuttal

(1) His claim was that he could "wiretap" the President IF he had Obama's personal email. And XKeyscore was the tool that he could have used.

But training materials for XKeyscore detail how analysts can use it and other systems to mine enormous agency databases by filling in a simple on-screen form giving only a broad justification for the search. The request is not reviewed by a court or any NSA personnel before it is processed.

XKeyscore, the documents boast, is the NSA's "widest reaching" system developing intelligence from computer networks – what the agency calls Digital Network Intelligence (DNI). One presentation claims the program covers "nearly everything a typical user does on the internet", including the content of emails, websites visited and searches, as well as their metadata.

Analysts can also use XKeyscore and other NSA systems to obtain ongoing "real-time" interception of an individual's internet activity.

Under US law, the NSA is required to obtain an individualized Fisa warrant only if the target of their surveillance is a 'US person', though no such warrant is required for intercepting the communications of Americans with foreign targets. But XKeyscore provides the technological capability, if not the legal authority, to target even US persons for extensive electronic surveillance without a warrant provided that some identifying information, such as their email or IP address, is known to the analyst.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

(2) There is no reason not to believe him. He had Tor and EFF stickers on his computers. He held a public crypto party in Hawaii. His coworkers admitted that he talked openly about Constitutional violations. I also find it laughable that Booz Allen and the government have not made specific denials about this claim. Likely, because they are concerned that doing so would come back to slap them in the face if Snowden or Greenwald are sitting on evidence that he had made specific complaints.

(3) One of his coworkers came forward (albeit anonymously) and said that no one was tricked but rather, his superiors gave him the keys.

(4) The U.S. army confirmed to the Guardian that Snowden enlisted for special forces.

The US army has confirmed an aspect of surveillance whistleblower Edward Snowden's military service to the Guardian.

As Snowden told the Guardian in announcing his responsibility for detailing multiple mass surveillance efforts by the National Security Agency sweeping up Americans' communications data, he indeed tried to join the elite special forces.

His attempt was unsuccessful.

"His records indicate he enlisted in the army reserve as a special forces recruit (18X) on 7 May 2004 but was discharged 28 September 2004," the US army's chief civilian spokesman, George Wright, said by email on Monday. (In his Guardian interview, Snowden gave the year as 2003.)

"He did not complete any training or receive any awards," Wright added.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/10/edward-snowden-army-special-forces

(5) In his original missive to Greenwald he included his CIA ID number and his CIA alias. In the published version, that info is redacted. The CIA has been silent, as it should be, but the evidence exists. (Edited to add Vattel's info from below.)

The Defense Intelligence Agency confirmed to NBC News that Snowden, as a contractor, had spoken at three of their conferences. Two intelligence sources tell NBC that Snowden worked for the CIA at an overseas station in IT and communications.

http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/edward-snowden-interview/exclusive-edward-snowden-tells-brian-williams-i-was-trained-spy-n115746

[Vattel]

26. Ty for saving me the time of having to point all of this out.

The Obama loyalist smear machine is relentless when it comes to Snowden.

[Tarheel_Dem]

43. Well, the Obama "loyalists" have to get in line behind the loyal Tigerbeat Snowdenistas.

Thanks to the DU poster who found this.

[whistler162]

82. Snowden is now part of the smear Snowden machine.....

who knew!

[struggle4progress]

29. Re 1: Snowden said ""I had the authorities to wiretap anyone"

It's bullshit, no matter how you slice and dice

[Luminous Animal]

33. Except for the pesky fact that NSA documents reveal just that.

Yeah, he might have gotten in trouble *IF* he had Obama's email address and ran a query but that doesn't mean he couldn't do it without a court order or any prior authorization.

[struggle4progress]

38. If you admit he would have gotten into trouble for doing so, you are also admitting

he didn't have the authority to do so

And the claim that any system administrator for an NSA contractor has the ability to intercept all emails associated with a given email address requires us to believe that all ISPs are engaged in some enormous collusion with the NSA

[struggle4progress]

30. Re 2: Stickers on his computer, and whatever parties he threw, are not on point

[struggle4progress]

31. Re 3: At least one NSA contractor lost job over this

[Luminous Animal]

36. So says the NSA. Proven liars. Whereas, Snowden's narrative stands up time after time.

[struggle4progress]

39. Be careful or you will commit yourself to the view that everyone except Snowden is a liar

[struggle4progress]

35. Re 4: In story accompanying Snowden interview, the Guardian reported

"In 2003, he enlisted in the US army and began a training program to join the Special Forces"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/10/edward-snowden-army-special-forces

But! ... Snowden was never a student at SWCS. He broke his legs while at Fort Benning. His intent was to enter the X-ray program – but that never happened and would not have happened because he only had a GED ...

... There are .. two ways for soldiers to volunteer to attend SFAS: ... The other path is that of direct entry ... The Active Duty program is referred to as the "18X Program" ... This program is commonly referred to as the "X-Ray Program", derived from "18X" ...

That is, he may have ultimately intended to enter the 18X program, but never did and was (in fact) ineligible, due to lack of a diploma

[Luminous Animal]

40. I really think you do not know what you are saying. Ft Benning is where special forc recruits train.

That he did not make it through that training to qualify for the 18x program, for whatever reason, is not the point. The point is , he entered with the purpose of joining the army broadly and hoping to enter the 18x program specifically. The army confirms this.

[struggle4progress]

48. I provided links

[Recursion]

52. But there's not (at least officially) a way to do 18X into the reserves

It's not like the GED issue, for which there's a waiver; this would have been a one-off acceptance. Now, this happens, but it -- again -- just brings us back to the issue that every single step of his career is "weird":

1. Enlistment into a reserve 18X contract without a diploma
2. Washing out nearly immediately rather than doing a physical rehab
3. Joining the CIA after washing out of the Army
4. Getting diplomatic cover in Geneva after his first assignment
5. Leaving the CIA under something of a cloud but getting an NSA contract rather quickly after that
6. Releasing a ton of information about the NSA and nothing about the CIA

None of those are impossible, but when you put them all together the whole thing is just implausible. He was either a golden boy given one too many chances or a patsy, but either way there's something going on we don't know about.

[joshcryer]

76. I maintain LIHOP.

Or MIHOP if we are to believe that the NSA/CIA has the ability to really get into someones' head.

Drop the right person into the right circumstances and "see what happens" would be LIHOP though.

[Luminous Animal]

41. Apparently, a GED is sufficient: From the US Army Special Forces recruitment criteria site

http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/sfas/criteria.html

"Must be a high school graduate or have a general equivalency diploma (GED)."

[struggle4progress]

44. It's possible that requirements vary according to entry mode. This website suggests

(for example) one can't enter 18X through the Army Reserve, which (according to the Guardian article) is where Snowden enlisted

http://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/browse-career-and-job-categories/intelligence-and-combat-support/special-forces-candidate.html

There is an 18X enlistment program, successful completion of which allows one to try-out for special forces. It apparently begins with about four months of infantry training, followed by jump school, followed by a number of other stages, requiring somewhere between a year and a year and a half in all -- just to be able to apply to the special forces. Snowden was discharged before he made it into any of the special forces candidacy training

[Recursion]

51. Yeah, the reserve contract was another red flag for me

Just literally every stage of his backstory has something odd about it that doesn't jibe with my experience of how the DoD works. Which is not to say he's lying, just that his whole career is very unusual.

[Luminous Animal]

54. What part of the army confirmed do you not understand.

[struggle4progress]

59. The coverage from even reputable media is often demonstrably wrong here:

the BBC reported In 2003, he joined the US Army and began training with the special forces;

the Nation reported Ed Snowden enlisted in the Army Reserve as a Special Forces recruit;

Encyclopedia Brittanica says He enlisted in the army reserve as a special forces candidate

and all of these are inaccurate claims

The Guardian, too, in an article based on a direct interview with him, said he enlisted in the US army and began a training program to join the Special Forces

which is also an inaccurate claim

I provided you with a link to an army website indicating one can't join special forces through the army reserve, and another link to another army spokesperson email indicating one can't join special forces with a GED

What's odd about your PoV IMO is that you regard reports of governmental sources as reliable when they support your narrative (in the present instance, for example) and unreliable when they don't -- and that's not a usable recipe for a defensible analysis

[Luminous Animal]

77. And, I pointed to an actual U.S. Army website that a GED is sufficient. Oh well.

[Recursion]

46. Well, yeah, *if* Obama used a gmail account, sure

For that matter, if Obama walked across H street to the Radio Shack and bought a normal cell phone, people could listen to that, too: there's a reason the NSC would all resign if he started doing that.

The U.S. army confirmed to the Guardian that Snowden enlisted for special forces.

On a side note, it's only relatively recently that people have been able to do that (18X started IIRC in 2003 or 2004) and I think it's a horrible idea, for reasons that at this moment should be fairly obvious... But at any rate, while I have no particular reason to doubt him that just seems weird -- 18X contracts are highly sought after and getting a no-diploma waiver for it would be difficult. Though not impossible. Though the terminology is confusing, too; I know a few SO/SOC guys and they always say "SOC" rather than "special forces", but then again the military does use that in PR and recruiting so either A. Snowden was using that phrase because it was more accessible or B. the Guardian was. It's just another thing that made my ears pick up when I first heard it...

In his original missive to Greenwald he included his CIA ID number and his CIA alias. In the published version, that info is redacted. The CIA has been silent, as it should be, but the evidence exists.

The Guardian claimed he was a CIA agent given diplomatic cover (!) in Geneva (!!) on his first assignment (!!!). I've never read Snowden himself claiming that, though it seems likely he was the Guardian's source (and obviously nobody expects CIA to confirm or deny that). Like getting the 18-X contract with just a GED, that just sounds weird to me. Diplo cover is highly sought after. A Geneva posting is very highly sought after. Giving somebody that on their first assignment just sort of raises a red flag to me, whether it's that he's not telling the truth about it at all or not telling the whole truth -- if he did get a plum on his first assignment, there was a reason that he's not mentioning (and may not even know).

That said, taking this claim at face value, we have an admitted CIA agent who then left the CIA allegedly over concerns about their ethics (?) and then took a contract job with the NSA (?!?) at which point he stole everything and has released a shit ton of information about the NSA and precisely zero information about the CIA, which is the NSA's chief rival and which was the only agency for which he claims to have actually been an agent.

If that doesn't seem weird to you, well...

[joshcryer]

63. The "diplomatic cover" angle comes from Harding's book.

"The Snowden Files" by Luke Harding.

Harding sets up a really adventurous version of Snowden. Harding's book is really, shall I say, eye opening with the narrative that Snowden wants to tell. I think it's either hyperbole, or some really crazy double agent shit (not joking here). I just spent the last week reading through The Snowden Files and No Place To Hide though so I may be screwing up the narrative a tiny bit, but I think Harding's book makes Snowden out to be this really amazing CIA agent IT guy who gets to go places and do things most other people would never dream of. Reading further, how Snowden justified releasing the data, and never retracted his "not wanting to give away CIA agents names" sort of cements it to me.

Dude is pro-CIA anti-NSA.

[joshcryer]

61. XKeyscore is not reading the President's emails.

Or anything he does on his blackberry.

To think it does is asinine and it shows an utter lack of understanding of the security apparatus surrounding the President.

The NSA has admitted, openly, it collects all plaintext form information on the entire internet. (That includes your post, and mine.) It ain't fucking collecting the President of the United States' digital comments because they aren't plaintext.

[Luminous Animal]

64. A-fucking-again. *IF* Snowden HAD THE PRESIDENT'S PERSONAL EMAIL ADDRESS... *IF* *IF*

Do people not understand the word *if* anymore?

[joshcryer]

67. You don't understand.

Even if he had the POTUS' email he couldn't read fucking goddamn encrypted chat. It's plaintext only. Read the goddamn slides. It's one Google search away. IT IS NOT ENCRYPTED.

Read the fucking slides!

BTW, I hate using "you don't understand" in an argument, but you literally do not understand what XKeyscore does.

[Luminous Animal]

71. Okey-dokey. Apparently (hahahaha!) Merkel does not use encryption.

[joshcryer]

72. On a personal, unsecured phone.

She didn't.

[Luminous Animal]

74. Exactly.

[joshcryer]

75. Which was secured shortly after Obama took office.

Guess the Germans saw Obama's vote on telecom immunity and realized he'd continue Bush's (illegal; made legal by Obama's vote) practices.

[baldguy]

84. (4) The U.S. army confirmed to the Guardian that Snowden did not join the special forces.

FTFY

Just as any other course of study & training, "tried to join the Special Forces" is not the same as "being in the Special Forces". The excerpt you supply yourself contradicts your assertion.

[Luminous Animal]

93. Snowden never claimed he was in special forces.

Only that he joined the army as a special forces recruit. The army confirms.

[Vattel]

24. Did you read the article?

Your point #5: "Now he claims he was trained as a spy and was so good at it that he gave lectures on the subject at DIA and elsewhere."

The DIA confirmed that he spoke at three of their conferences.

[Luminous Animal]

27. Thanks for that!

[struggle4progress]

37. I have never heard "lectured at the academy" used as a synonym for "spoke at a conference"

"Lectured at the academy" typically means one had some sort of instructional appointment, whereas "spoke at a conference" designates a single talk

A speaker at a conference held at a university (say) typically identifies the event in that way and avoids the misleading claim to have "lectured at the university"

[Luminous Animal]

42. Example UC Berkeley's Lecture Series which is hosting a conference and invited

(wait what?) lecturers. Scroll down to CITY + WATER: INTERNATIONAL PERSPECTIVES.

http://ced.berkeley.edu/events-media/lecture-series/architecture-lecture-series

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/lecture

1. An educational talk to an audience, especially to students in a university or college.

[struggle4progress]

45. I know what the words mean. I'm telling you how they are commonly used

[Luminous Animal]

53. Really. I go to lectures regularly at conferences and events at universities and otherwise.

The person speaking is the lecturer. One of my closest friends, an expert in her field, is billed as a lecturer at conferences and her website reflects that exact same verbiage. It would be a professional misstep for her to do otherwise.

[Vattel]

112. The desperation to discover a lie is really pretty funny.

I too attend conferences and other university events and, strangely enough, talks given at such events are often referred to as lectures.

[joshcryer]

60. Snowden should release his manifesto.

Fuck Greenwald, that lying "used carsalesman" POS. Yes, I read "No Place To Hide" over the past few days. The entire narrative is so embarrassing it's a joke.

[snooper2]

89. He is just a low level IT hack LOL, he STOLE passwords to get the documents

I guess he has to poof poof his feathers a little more now and then since he is unable to fly

[randome]

10. Article won't load properly for me. Does he say what name he was given?

If not, he's just blowing smoke, although I'm starting to think he actually believes what he says. I suppose anything is better than facing the fact that you've ruined your life. By choice.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[grasswire]

19. really getting under your skin, isn't this? nt

[Luminous Animal]

28. Poitras and Greenwald have his name and CIA ID #. The CIA refuses to comment.

[Tarheel_Dem]

49. Yeah, and we should believe anything you say....why?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5004213

[Luminous Animal]

50. He was quite clear that he ruined his life *as he knew it* before he came forward as the leaker.

But, he seems at peace with himself in every public appearance.

[Tanuki]

80. I actually found the part about using a false name easy to believe. Every time I get an off-shored

Last edited Wed May 28, 2014, 07:47 AM - Edit history (1)

tech support or customer service rep on the phone, they are using some obviously phony-baloney name.

[baldguy]

85. That's not for the purposes of anonymity.

It'd because Americans would unintentionally mangle their real name beyond comprehension.

[7wo7rees]

13. Response seems to be off the chart.

Who knows why?

[grasswire]

18. thank you for your honest patriotism here

history will tell the tale, eventually.

[flamingdem]

15. I think he was trained at the same spy school as

Maxwell Smart.

?w=608&h=400&crop=1

[Whisp]

57. Is that the Snowcone of Silence?

[flamingdem]

96. Yes, it inspired Snowden and

Greenwald so they used it whenever they got together, you never know who's listening

[krawhitham]

23. k

[sheshe2]

34. KnR

Yet the article will not load for me.

[ProSense]

86. I can't believe

anyone advising this guy told him it was a good idea to do this interview and offer up the line: "I was trained as a spy."

[Tarheel_Dem]

47. I can't wait to hear what Bill Maher has to say about this.

[Whisp]

58. I spy with my little eye - an Eddie who likes to Bullshit. n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

99. Is that what the smell is? Bullshit?

[anti partisan]

81. Do you realize how foolish you look by mocking the idea that someone could be trained...

to do spying activities within the NSA of all places?

Next up - that other charlatan who says he was trained to investigate within the FBI!

[Tarheel_Dem]

100. And a high school dropout, no less. He's good.

[COLGATE4]

119. He was recruited for the super-secret

"Secret Squirrel" black-ops program based on his outstanding resume.

[Tarheel_Dem]

121. Now that's what I call "white male privelege". From high school dropout to "super secret black ops"!

[COLGATE4]

122. He even got his secret decoder ring too. nt

[msanthrope]

110. Right...because this is a Hollywood movie where a high-school dropout who could not

complete basic training is secretly recruited to be a spy....

Sure.

[kelliekat44]

87. I think this could only happen for a white, male, child of privilege who dropped out of school.

Think any other person could be hired into such a position from the beginning?

[Blue_Tires]

92. Wondeful...Brilliant

Now people will really start to ask if his being in Russia was only due to some 'unfortunate circumstance'...

[ProSense]

94. Glenn Greenwald: Low-Level NSA Analysts Have ‘Powerful and Invasive’ Search Tool

Glenn Greenwald: Low-Level NSA Analysts Have ‘Powerful and Invasive’ Search Tool
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/07/glenn-greenwald-low-level-nsa-analysts-have-powerful-and-invasive-search-tool/

Did Snowden tell Greenwald he was a "spy"?

[Sheepshank]

95. Quick...someone get him a cape!!!

I don't think Snowden's most recent claim is reality based. But, as a comic book hero, he's all sorts of awesome!

[Whisp]

106. Your order is ready, Sir...

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[ucrdem]

120. He's gone from James Bond to Forrest Gump in three weeks.

Impressive.