How much of the Hillary hate around here is due to misogyny?

[fried eggs]

The last few days shows that DU might have a problem with misogyny and misogyny deniers. Now I'm wondering how much of the negativity expressed towards Hillary Clinton is due to misogynist thinking?

[el_bryanto]

1. Very little I'd say. I think it has more to do with the fact that

Hillary is a wall street democrat who's position on foreign policy isn't exactly what we would like to see.

Bryant

[broiles]

19. Plus she's a hawk.

[el_bryanto]

20. I was alluding to that by saying her foreign policy isn't what we would want it to be.

In honesty I should say I'm more bothered by her position on Wall Street; but both are issues.

[Victor_c3]

21. And she has no morals

Or if she does have any morality, she is quick to discard it when it is politically expedient to do so.

For proof, look at her Iraq War Resolution vote and later reluctance to apologize for her vote when campaigning in 2008. At best she refused to apologize for her part in facilitating the war because she didn't want to be viewed as a flip-flopper. At worst, she is a blood thirsty war monger like bush.

[closeupready]

32. "I have nothing to apologize for," is what she said, I believe,

in reference to that vote.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. All of it.

Given her track record, who could have anything but love, respect, and admiration for her?

Regards,

Wall Street

[rock]

4. I'm with Manny

Less the sarcasm.

[thesquanderer]

3. There have always been people who have claimed misogyny at anything anti-hillary

but many anti-hillary people are pro-warren.

[daleanime]

51. +1

[Art_from_Ark]

76. I would vote for Elizabeth Warren in a heartbeat

I'm not terribly excited about Hillary, though.

[dawg]

5. Not much.

I might be suspicious if someone who is still an enthusiastic Obama supporter came out strongly against Hillary. But most of the Hillary opposition is based on third-way policy and hawkishness.

FWIW, I think Hillary would govern slightly to the left of Obama. She's not my ideal candidate, but I think she would make for a tiny improvement over the status quo. (How's that for a ringing endorsement?)

[Le Taz Hot]

6. Oh, FFS.

Can't you just take it on face value that most progressives feel she represents only the 1%, is a hawk, supports the TPP and the XL Pipeline, among many MANY other things? Does EVERYTHING have to be misogyny?

LTH<------ A LONG TIME feminist who has walked the walk so can talk the talk.

ETA: I would, however, STRONGLY support an Elizabeth Warren candidacy.

[Scuba]

7. I don't hate Hillary, I just don't want another corporate shill as President.

[MohRokTah]

8. Some, certainly, but nowhere near a majority. eom

[snooper2]

9. My only big problem with Hillary is her last name

[Katashi_itto]

10. She's will make an incredible president!

We think so..

-Wall Street

[Victor_c3]

23. I can't resist not adding this to any Hillary Clinton thread I see

[IMG][/IMG]

[Katashi_itto]

42. +10000!

[OnyxCollie]

11. Wait 'til someone claims "used car salesman" is misogynistic.

But I guess if someone wrote "used car salesman" instead of "used car salesperson" or "used car saleswoman," it would be.

[tkmorris]

12. Oh fer chrissake...

[bowens43]

13. none. we just dont need another clinton/bush/obama candidate

[bigwillq]

39. This.

[dsc]

14. Of course some of it is

we have people who backed Obama to the hilt on everything he did in both foreign policy and wall street who then won't vote for Hillary. Those people are quite likely anti woman. Now there are others who have legit problems with her.

[JayhawkSD]

15. Misogyny is a copout.

It's a way to dodge her true shortcomings of corporatism, cronyism and fundamental dishonesty.

[bobduca]

66. This.

[Nye Bevan]

16. Watch out for code words like "shrill", "hysterical" and "emotional" (nt)

[theHandpuppet]

59. Bingo!

And much worse, too. I remember well the primaries. Shameful.

[geek tragedy]

17. Opposition due to misogyny won't be the issue

What will be a possible issue is opposition that is expressed in misogynistic terms.

[Jamastiene]

86. We have already seen a lot of that on DU,

including some of the graphics posted of her during the primary wars on DU back in 2008. I expect to see it happen again on DU.

[Throd]

18. I voted for Hillary in the primaries because I'm a racist, but I'm not a misogynist.

...sarcasm...

[pampango]

50. Well said, Throd. No liberal is going to admit they hate Hillary because she's a woman or Barack

because he is black.

There may be a very few DU'ers out there who harbor these attitudes but they are not many and they are certainly not going to fess up to it in response to an OP like this. It would kind of kill any credibility they had left. They would have to say goodbye to DU if they ever confessed to such misogyny or racism.

[Jamastiene]

85. ROFL!

I remember those primary wars like they were yesterday.

[Xyzse]

22. I don't mind Hillary. I actually have no idea how much, I am sure some of it is.

I mean, there are definite negatives against her. I still preferred her over Obama to begin with, though I considered them about the same in regards to positions, and what they will do. I just thought that she had the more solid network which would have allowed her to consolidate her cabinet thoroughly and more expeditiously. Which I have found to have been one of Obama's chief weaknesses. He was unable to capitalize on the early wave of his Presidency's infancy to ride that and put in place his people. Instead, we got treated to a bunch of individuals that was tailored to be able to pass opposition, beyond the first mid-term elections.

Him not being able to staff positions in the cabinet was a huge weakness that allowed Republicans to stymie much of his proposals and programs at the get go. I mean, cabinet positions that have not been vacated by Republicans whose primary goal to begin with is to weaken government.

Who am I kidding? I will vote for whomever the Democratic candidate ends up to be after the primaries. I would love to have someone other than Clinton, but if she ends up as it, then there is just no way I would vote for the Republican candidate at the moment. I can't think of any possibility that they can propose that would meet the threshold of acceptability for me.

So Clinton is it, if she wins the primary. As for me, I am still pulling for Robert Reich.

[treestar]

24. Good topic

I honestly don't thing so. From the right wing there might be some

[Beacool]

41. Some???

I would say a big portion of it: Read any news website's comments on any Hillary article. They are mostly about her physical appearance than policy. Most comments are about her hair, weight, age, sexuality, etc. The Right can't seem to handle powerful women.

[treestar]

65. The right used to say in Bill's term

"I hate the President, and her husband too"

Because Hillary had a career, she must be bossing her husband around.

this is why I love the idea of Hillary as President and Bill as American's First - First Gentleman. The right will change their tune and claim it's Bill's third term.

Hypocrisy is the right's stock and trade.

[Beacool]

92. The sexism is rampant.

I was recently reading about Catherine de Medici and it dawned on me that the sexism she encountered in her time hasn't improved so dramatically in the last 450 years. Catherine came from Florence, the city that saw the birth of the Renaissance. She was very well educated, a humanist, intelligent and cultured. She introduced to the French court the fork, ice cream, perfumes, high heel shoes and helped develop the side saddle after an injury from a fall; among other things.

During the almost 30 years she ruled as regent she tried to bring the two religious factions together (Catholics and Huguenots) with very mixed results. Yet, the French hated her. She was a woman and a foreigner, she was also not of French royal blood. In her time pamphlets were distributed by her enemies accusing her of all sort of vile things. She still forged ahead and became one of the greatest queens France ever had. For centuries she was vilified, but contemporary historians are finally giving Catherine her due.

I see very similar attacks directed at Hillary. We may be in the 21st century, but sexism is still alive and well.

[Demo_Chris]

25. Very little. nt

[Lee-Lee]

26. Probably most of it

Even of those doing it don't comprehend what they are doing or why.

[Chan790]

33. So so true...

I hated Bill Clinton too for holding similar positions...so it must be misogyny. Good-for-nothing free-trader corporatist fiscal-conservative objects for my rampant misogyny.

for the sarcasm-impaired.

(Fact is I'd hate hir just as much if hir were a Harry Clinton instead of a Hillary.)

[Proud Public Servant]

27. Every single so-called "Hillary hater" here

as far as I can tell, supports Elizabeth Warren and wishes she would run for president.

Kinda blows a hole in the "misogyny" theory, I would think.

[Katashi_itto]

43. Damn I wish Warren would run. If Hillary is the only option to vote. I plan on having waffles

that day instead.

[Leme]

28. from wiki

Misogyny /mɪˈsɒdʒɪni/ is the hatred or dislike of women or girls. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women.
-
as far as I can tell, non of those apply to Hillary in my mind.
-
If I dislike her... it is for other reasons

[yellowcanine]

29. Until you define "Hillary hate" I am not taking the flame bait.

[SamKnause]

30. I am a 60 year old female, soon to be 61.

I do not hate Hillary Clinton.

I will not vote for Hillary Clinton.

She is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

She is a warmonger.

She is a hypocrite.

She is in bed with Wall Street.

She is pushing for the TPP.

Hope that answers your question.

I don't vote for a candidate based on their genitalia.

[fried eggs]

46. Even if she's the nominee?

Do you realize that the next president has the potential to change the supreme court for the next 30 to 40 years?

[djean111]

77. The problem there is I don't think I would be happy with a Hillary nominee.

Why the assumption that Hillary would appoint anyone the least bit liberal or progressive? I think she would appoint a Third-Wayer.

[winter is coming]

78. Sounds like a good argument for selecting a nominee that lots of Dems will enthusiastically support,

but oddly enough, I've only ever seen it used as an argument to support the lesser of two evils.

[ProfessorGAC]

31. Seems To Ignore. . .

. . .the very real possibility that folks think it through and find her history and positions lacking.

Now, if it's her or some Republican troglodyte, it's likely a different dicussion.

But, if folks here are choosing between democrats of different stripes, i can see her gender being irrelevant to many, if not all.
GAC

[Ichingcarpenter]

34. How much of the Margaret Thatcher hate around here is due to misogyny?

How much of the Ann Coulter hate around here is due to misogyny?


How much of the Irma Grese hate around here is due to misogyny?

[GeorgeGist]

35. Sunny side up?

[Beacool]

36. Hmmm, I mostly think that they just don't like her policies.

Although, the lesson I did learn from 2008 is that the Left can be as sexist as the Right. It was quite an eye opener and a disappointment.

What I'm fed up with here is the constant virulent responses to any Hillary article. If I wanted to read so much vile, I might as well hang out at RW sites.

[greatlaurel]

37. About 40%, the other 40% is from the GOP dirty tricks operatives.

We have seen this too many times to be fooled by the GOP dirt tricks operatives. It will get much worse as the GOP becomes more desperate. The "left" finds the most popular Democratic candidate unacceptable and gets lots of media attention. This GOP tactic has been used effectively against Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, and John Kerry by pretending there is some massive opposition in the Democratic Party. It was very effective against Gore and Kerry and gave cover to the media to ignore that both of those Presidential elections were won by fraud in the polling places (Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004}. Ted Kennedy running against Carter really did real harm to the party.

The GOP is very consistent in their methods. They cannot win on ideas, so they always turn to dirty tricks and fomenting problems in the campaigns of their opponents. Those of us who have seen this time and again just need to speak up so younger progressives are not fooled by these methods. The GOP will also back a weak Democratic candidate behind the scenes they feel sure they can defeat to try to stop Hillary Clinton. Why is the GOP so terrified of Hillary Clinton if she is such a right wing corporate shill? Because she is not a right wing corporate shill, and the GOP and their corporate masters know that fact.

[Beacool]

60. Around here they don't need the GOP to guide them.

They manage to write enough negative comments about Hillary all on their own. If one went by this site, one would erroneously assume that Hillary is unpopular within the party. The reality is the opposite. She has the highest ratings, for a non-incumbent, in the history of the Democratic party. Even higher than she had in 2008.

[greatlaurel]

62. Sometimes I think this site is the GOP Underground.

Hillary Clinton, if she chooses to run for president, will win with overwhelming support from the American people and she will have very long coattails helping many progressives to win offices. I am amazed at the level of vitriol and total distortions of her record that go unchallenged here.

Keep up your efforts to tell the truth. I appreciate your efforts.

[Beacool]

64. Thank you.

This place has always been unfriendly to either Clinton. One has to take everything with a grain of salt. It's just tiresome to have to fight the same fights over and over in a supposed Democratic site.

[Starry Messenger]

38. Wait until she runs.

You will see lady-hate the like you've never seen before.

[AngryAmish]

40. In 2008 primaries it was the misogyny v. racism around here

As you know, this is DU and there are no such things as political principles. Only hate.

[quinnox]

44. I think there is some of that here

But it is a view held by a minority, and they often seem to be extremely hard core supporters of the current White House occupant. I noticed quite a bit of this, some of it veiled, and some of it not so veiled, during the 2008 primary wars.

[Armstead]

45. Very small amount.

Of course it depends on how one defines misogyny.

If you define it as criticizing any prominent person who happens to be a woman, then yes there is a lot.

If you define it as disliking and criticizing someone simply because she is a woman, hardly any here.

If you define it as disliking someone, and using sexist terms to demean or define them, then some but not much.

[LTR]

47. I'm tired of political dynasties and stale ideas

I like seeing fresh faces, such as Obama in 2008.

It's not about misogyny. If Elizabeth Warren was running, I would definitely support her. She's not a stale establishment politician. She's a fighter with some really good ideas.

[Throd]

48. How about Sarah Palin?

[NCTraveler]

49. While the problems you mention clearly exist here.

I personally think the opposition to a Hillary on this site has very little to do with her gender. Her vote on the IWR is a much larger player in the displeasure of many toward her running.

[lumberjack_jeff]

52. Misogyny? No. Bias and stereotype? Yes.

Hillary is expected by DU'ers to hold a certain rigid set of beliefs and principles by virtue of her sex. That she is something of a hawk is strongly violative of those expectations so she gets more shit about it than, say, Biden does.

[Ash_F]

73. There is merit to this idea, but I have a counterpoint.

I think she gets more shit because she is considered to be a more serious/likely candidate than Biden. In fact she is probably the most likely candidate at this time and DUers are dreading that inevitability. At least that is how I feel, personally.

I think it is more about that, but maybe a little of what you described.

[Squinch]

54. How much of the opposition to Obama is due to racism? Certainly not all, but certainly some.

I'd say the same with relation to Hillary.

And when it is pointed out to racists that part of their problem with Obama is his race, what do they say? "No way, not me, no it's everything else about him, it has nothing to do with racistm. Those who say it has anything to do with racism are just racists!"

See any parallels?

[randys1]

55. Good question, I need to reexamine my attitudes about her in this light

Unlike many here I am incapable of instantly telling you if the thousands of thoughts and thousands of words I have expressed about her over the past 20 yrs is largely due to misogyny or not, I have to think about it.

Wish I could instantly be so damn sure of myself...

[KamaAina]

56. Rather little, I suspect.

Certainly none here. Her rah-rah pro-war stance and C Street ties are what do it for me.

[1000words]

57. Greenwald called it!

“But she’s going to be the first female president, and women in America are going to be completely invested in her candidacy. Opposition to her is going to be depicted as misogynistic, like opposition to Obama has been depicted as racist. It’s going to be this completely symbolic messaging that’s going to overshadow the fact that she’ll do nothing but continue everything in pursuit of her own power.”

http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/201406/glenn-greenwald-edward-snowden-no-place-to-hide?currentPage=1

[LadyHawkAZ]

58. My call? Not much. Her being a Democrat and a Clinton is usually enough. n/t

[Zorra]

61. Very little, or none, of the dislike for Hillary Clinton's politics is due to misogyny.

Much of the criticism being leveled at Hillary Clinton is coming from enthusiastic supporters of Elizabeth Warren.

A woman.

The simple fact is, progressives don't want Hillary Clinton to be nominated because she is a DLC/Third Way corporatist who, just like a republican, if elected President, will not make a sincere attempt at solving the critical core economic problems we face as a people, and a nation.

Another bankster/wealthy private interest serving President is exactly what we don't need in 2016.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

63. Very little, of course. N.T.

[winter is coming]

67. You lost me at "Hillary hate". n/t

[TransitJohn]

68. How much of the thrown-about uses of 'hate'

is laziness, and how much is deliberate?

[rufus dog]

69. I'm not a fan of Hillary

Nor am I a fan of Bill

Go figure.

[hrmjustin]

70. I am a huge Hillary supporter and I think most of those who explain there opposition make clear it

is about policy and I take them at their word.

While there might be some that have an issue with her gender all those I encountered here who dislike her it is msinly on TPP and Iraq.

[Doctor_J]

71. oh, God. already?

Man, next six years are going to suck around here.

[Ash_F]

74. Embrace that grim inevitability, Doctor_J

Embrace it.

[Ash_F]

72. Nah. She's too conservative

She's to the right of the middle of America on most issues. Not the middle of Democrats. The middle of America at large.

I would want someone who is at least in the middle of Democrats.

Also pro Warren here.

[tammywammy]

75. During the 2008 primary season on DU

Some of the anti-Hillary was misogyny. Just like some of the anti-Obama was based on racism. That's not to say all or even the majority of anti-Hillary/Obama was based on misogyny or racism, but some was.

[djean111]

79. As a woman, I am sickened by the mantra that I should support Hillary just because she is a woman

and it is time for a woman president and of course it should be Hillary because she wants the job so very very much.
I would wholeheartedly support Warren, because of Warren's views. Same thing for Sanders, for Reich.
Gender does not play any part whatsoever, for me.

[lostincalifornia]

80. Whatever it is, if she decides to run she is most likely going to win the nomination, and those

"Hillary haters" will need to decide if she is the nominee whether they will vote for her or not.

I know one thing, George McGovern was a good man, and I voted for him both in the primaries and in the general election, and he lost by a landslide. I do not think the country has become more liberal

[Prophet 451]

81. Some of it is

I couldn't guess how much of it is due to misogyny but don't ignore that there are legitimate reasons to be against a Hillary candidacy such as her vote for the IWC, cosyness with Wall Street, high negative polling, etc.

[KitSileya]

82. The dislike may be well-founded,

But the expression of it will overwhelmingly be expressed in misogynistic terms. When you read articles and posts about Hillary Clinton from now on, try to put Bill instead of Hillary in the sentences, and see whether the criticism would work the same when said about a man...

[zazen]

89. ^this^ +1

And that will be used by pro-Hilary corporatist Dems to galvanize support and shame critics on the Left.

I was an Edwards (economic populism) supporter in 07-08. I realllllly disliked and continue to dislike her positions but was appalled at the misogyny against her in 07-08.

I really got slammed by a lot of people here in 07 by posting a thread critiquing the Hilary Nutcracker ad that was running here on DU. I posted a parody of it applied to Obama, based on the vile stereotype of Black oversexed males and their genitalia, in order to call attention to how unacceptable (and similar) such racist stereotyping of Obama would be. The outrage at my post while people defended the Nutcracker ad was telling. Why, mine was racist, while the Nutcracker ad was just lighthearted fun.

I've seen a lot of progress here in the past six years. The vast majority of DU would call out that ad now, while most defended it in 07.

[dogknob]

83. I believe she'll be as good of a corporate shill as any man who might run for President.

It's either her or a Republican, so whatever.

[mattclearing]

84. Very little. It's more to do with IWR, Wal-Mart, and 2008. n/t

[intaglio]

87. Considering that the bulk of her opponents on DU

support another woman for Presidential nominee, then I'd say it is not misogyny

But thank you for your concern

[bravenak]

88. No, those same people love Elizabeth Warren.

They may use the language at times, we live in a mans world. Our society will talk about her in ways they never would do to a man. If Elizabeth Warren changes her mind she will deal with the same thing. Even some supporters will do this without thinking about it.

Most people that talk negatively about Hillary here, hate her policies, think shes a corporatist, and a hawk.

I will just do my job and vote for the Democrat in the General.

[davidpdx]

90. So many others have put it better than I can

Bravo....

el_bryanto Post 20
Le Taz Hot Post 6
Scuba Post 7
JayhawkSD Post 15
Proud Public Servant Post 27
SamKnause Post 30
ProfessorGAC Post 31
LTR Post 47

[doxydad]

91. I love her! n/t