General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsChina is BUILDING big things in Africa
The Chinese are all over Africa building big infrastructure projects like airports, highways, railroads, factories, power stations etc.
They even built a whole city in Angola.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilamba
Why can't we build big things?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)It could be okay if it's well maintained.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)There is much discussion to be had about how the quality of our surroundings affects the quality of life and society. Same things apply to all cultures, including our own. It's a subject I've had a long interest in.
Haven't time to delve into it now, but its a fertile subject for discussion.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)'We,' being the 99%. The other 1% is where the money is.
Restore 1950s tax rates and return us to the conservative paradise the right claims we had.
Response to CJCRANE (Original post)
Agschmid This message was self-deleted by its author.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)"However, despite the slow start, new legislation signed into law by dos Santos has resulted in a massive boom in demand. As of September 2013 the current population is 40,000 residents and continuing to grow. Officials expect the population to reach 70,000 by January 2014".
But even so, the last sentence in your post indicates it could be used for social housing.
Response to CJCRANE (Reply #5)
Agschmid This message was self-deleted by its author.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)So far that isn't the case.
The city project in Angola was payment for oil.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)The British and other European powers didn't move en masse to many places they colonized. India and Africa never saw really substantial numbers of whites moving in there, just enough to exert control and start raping the resources.
All colonization requires is taking control-either directly or indirectly like the British did in many cases by the yielding power and influence against local governments until they ended up being little more than puppets. Once control is taken, they can exploit the resources and people.
Traded for oil? Looks like the resource exploitation is already underway...
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)'I'm taking what I want and giving you what I say in return' is colonialism. Mass immigration to the colony is absolutely not a requirement of colonialism.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)The Chinese have expertise in building infrastructure and the African countries want to build infrastructure.
It's a Chinese bargain.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)People have been eyeballing Africa as a place where they could exploit locals with super low wages, it's just the infrastructure to take products to market was never there. Now it will be.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)I think Africans know better on this one.
IronLionZion
(45,528 posts)You could argue the colonial powers built railroads and other infrastructure too, while ignoring the mountain of shit they dumped on the African people.
Ask yourself why that city is mostly empty. Do you think 99% of the people there can afford those apartments?
China builds things. Often crap that no one wants. Its what they do.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)That's basically what you are saying.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)The same as happened after WWII with the Marshall Plan in Europe.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)This was not an act of goodwill, it was a trade deal that favored China.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)What do the African people want in your opinion?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)China did a big oil deal with them. You claim it is some great act of charity.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)If you want to trade with a nation it helps to build up their infrastructure.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Bonx
(2,075 posts)"The cost is reported as US$3.5 billion, financed by a Chinese credit line and repaid by the Angolan government with oil."
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)It's bartering but it's still a transaction.
Lots of countries do that to preserve their foreign currency reserves.
Bonx
(2,075 posts)The Angolans are paying for a big - mostly empty - city with oil.
Coventina
(27,172 posts)After all the lawsuits over Chinese drywall, and other Chinese building materials.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)If it's better than what they had before, then it's a plus.
Bonx
(2,075 posts)How long before these fall into disrepair ?
Coventina
(27,172 posts)Something tells me that probably China didn't expend their "best" for these projects.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)But I meant infrastructure.
Big dams, big bridges, highways, broadband superhighways etc.
Bonx
(2,075 posts)for anyone paying us to do so. Just like China.
Coventina
(27,172 posts)Oh wait, we never did get paid for that, did we?
JustAnotherGen
(31,882 posts)I'm going to give you a link from Linked In - Look at the company this guy works for (hint: It's Mr. Blackwater's latest gig) and what HE is doing in Angola:
http://il.linkedin.com/pub/itzhak-ayalon/8/70/943
The 1% - the people have no more f*cks to give that are Americans - are spending and MAKING their money over there helping out China.
I do not believe for one minute that a company like Frontier Resource Group isn't making money (big money) off of this.
Ya gotta hand it to Prince - he's made of teflon. He takes a beating and just pops up somewhere else to engage in either disaster or vulture capitalism. *smh*
ETA - another good link - https://www.homestrings.com/news-and-analysis/2014/march/03/four-emerging-pe-investment-strategies-and-platforms/?tag=African+Investment
A relatively new theme for PE fund-raising is the emergence of resource-focused funds. This trend may seem surprising, given that PE has generally avoided raising resource-focused funds, but the reason these funds are gaining in favor is because the slowdown in demand from China for resources has created a window of opportunity to buy natural resources companies at relatively lower valuations. An increasing drive toward indigenization of resources in Nigeria, for example, is also creating opportunities for local PE firms. Notable PE activity in this sector included Warburg Pincus US$600m investment in Delonex Energy, an oil and gas exploration platform that focuses its activities in Central and East Africa. Helios Investment Partners acquired a minority stake in a joint venture formed by BTG Pactual with Petrobras International Braspetro. The new company was created for exploration and production of oil and gas in Africa. Noble Group Ltd. and TPG agreed to invest US$500m each in private mining
venture X2 Resources for investments across the globe, including Africa. Frontier Resource Group is targeting US$500m for its latest fund to focus on natural resource development in markets such as Africa.
TBF
(32,090 posts)Military weapontry is our specialty. All sorts of things are built in Newport News: http://nns.huntingtoningalls.com/products/carriers/index
Whether this is useful building I will leave you all to debate ...
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)on stinking projects that will help citizenry. We must give all our money to corps that will stash it in offshore accounts so they can count their dollars.
He who dies with the most toys still dies.
Igel
(35,356 posts)The Chinese government is a large part of the economy. It gets first dibs. It does what it wants.
It wants to build the 3 Gorges Dam, it does so.
Environmental impact? That's done by the government. The government wants to build the dam, it does the environmental impact reports. The reports say what the government wants.
Funding? That's done by the government. The government wants to build the dam, it does the financial analysis. The analysis says what the government wants.
Public debate? That's done by the government. The government wants to debate the issue on its terms with itself, it does the debating. The debate says what the government wants. If private citizens want to say something else, they can--but it's not like you can easily find their speech, and if they become too loud ...
Regulation and law enforcement? That's done by the government. If the government gets reports of violating laws and regulations, it evaluates those reports. The reports say what the government wants.
It's all a matter of political will. If we wanted to, we could easily do something like this. We'd first have the political will to not have to deal with low-life poor people in the boonies, if that's not our political base. We'd have the will to suppress dissent quite handily and not bother to feel bad about it. We'd have the will to say that social welfare could be cut to merely "comfortable" levels and to define "comfortable" in accordance with the amount of money we had available. We'd have the will to make sure that tax rates increased significantly on those that have comfortable lifestyles ... by Chinese standards. We'd have the political will to decry anybody that disagreed with the government as not just "un-American" but "anti-American", therefore cultural traitors to "our" cause. And if the traitors didn't like it, for sure his job would vanish or his company would suddenly be in the hands of a "patriot," a relative of a government official and CP boss.
It's like Russia and the Crimea. Through sheer dint of political will, the food crisis in Crimea has been solved. There was a drought caused entirely by interruption of water flow through the main canal bringing water from Ukraine that devastated crops there in a giant crime against humanity, and still the grain harvest there is 2 1/2 times what it was in each of the previous two years! They have so much they don't know where to put it! Just imagine. Soon there'll be reports about 3x the amount of sand, they'll have 4x the amount of "tourist-friendly" waves, and suddenly July and August, the prime tourist months, will each have 41 days and 8 weekends each with two Saturday nights (but still only one Saturday).
JHB
(37,161 posts)In other words, does Angola see real benefit, or is it basically income-insurance for well-connected Chinese construction firms and a handful of Angolan facilitators?
KG
(28,752 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)Just wondering if these are more efforts to make their GDP appear bigger, as they've been doing in China.
JustAnotherGen
(31,882 posts)Those 'apartments' are for 'sale'. From the wiki - Although Kilamba contributes to meeting the election pledge made by President Jose Eduardo dos Santos in 2008 to build a million new homes in four years, Angola does not have a large middle class able to buy such homes.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)As Chinese labor becomes more expensive, there has been a small shift in manufacturing to Africa.
You have to ask yourself WHY is China doing this. Doubtful it's because of any grand humanitarian gestures on their part. Once the infrastructure is in place, then they can begin moving in the cheap workers.
A few years from now, many of your cheap Walmart goods may read "Made in Angola" instead of "Made in China"