Your favorite founding father?

[pokerfan]

I'm going with Thomas Paine.

Thomas Paine has a claim to the title The Father of the American Revolution because of Common Sense, the pro-independence monograph pamphlet he anonymously published on January 10, 1776; signed "Written by an Englishman", the pamphlet became an immediate success.[19] It quickly spread among the literate, and, in three months, 100,000 copies (estimated 500,000 total including unauthorized editions sold during the course of the Revolution)[20] sold throughout the American British colonies (with only two million free inhabitants), making it the best-selling American title of the period.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine#Common_Sense_.281776.29

If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.

He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.

Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst.

Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice.

[Sherman A1]

1. I would go with Adams & Jefferson

myself. Franklin is of course a good choice all in their own way made contributions and had interesting characters.

[Paul Edward Snyder]

25. A Timely Trinity

Last edited Wed Jul 9, 2014, 01:54 PM - Edit history (2)

Adams and Jefferson is an interesting and , I think, an insightful choice inasmuch as Adams was a Federalist (Conservative [actually by today’s standards he would be a Liberal since he supported a strong central government]) and Jefferson was a Democrat (Liberal [actually by today’s standards he would be a Conservative since he wanted a weak central government]).

Adams successfully persuaded the states to accept the Constitution and Jefferson, with reservations, agreed to support it. Together, Conservative and Liberal, along with many others like them laid the foundation for our government and for our society.

I would suggest a third choice, James Madison, who wrote, submitted, and insisted that the Bill of Rights be added to the Constitution, though the Constitution had already been officially adopted by the states and these Liberal limitations pretty much forgotten, even by the Liberals who had originally demanded them.

It is interesting and, I believe, an important insight into the character of our founding fathers that James Madison had serious reservations about the necessity and even the advisability of adding the Bill of rights to the Constitution, but he had made a promise to add them if the Democrats (Liberals) would vote for accepting the Constitution without them.

Without James Madison we would not have a Bill of Rights. Remember, he was a Conservative and thought the Bill of Rights would make governing the United States more difficult, but Conservatives in those days were honorable men who kept their promises.

[Blue_In_AK]

2. All of them

(in my best Sarah Palin voice).

[merrily]

6. Good one.

[PoliticAverse]

3. Paine was a founding member of what is considered the first anti-slavery society in America...

African Slavery In America by Thomas Paine - http://www.constitution.org/tp/afri.htm

[etherealtruth]

13. I did not know that, thank you! n/t

[Bucky]

4. an unsung hero of the revolt: Roger Sherman

Sherman is like this ghost, lingering just out of the limelight at every important scene in the Revolution. He was on the committee of five tasked with writing the Declaration, he served in the Continental Congress for most of the war, and at the Constitutional Convention, he basically saved the Union by politically outmaneuvering the Madison-Washington faction and shoving the Connecticut Compromise down their throats. He's one of only two men to sign all three of the signature documents of the early Republic: the Declaration, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution. He served in the 2nd Congress, so he was around for the ratification of the Bill of Rights, but not part of writing them.

Of course he had his flaws--they all did. For instance, your hero Paine was a debt dodger, a drunkard, an unreliable businessman, and a blowhard. Paine tried his hand at building a bridge as a private business venture, but thoroughly botched the job by refusing to listen to mathmaticians who told him the structure he was building was unsound (he refused to a put a proper arch in it, which left the weight of the structure maldistributed--cargo wagons crossing the river he'd bridged triggered such intense vibrations that they could only cross one wagon at a time). Often drunk at this time, he refused to make improvements when the bridge's structure was proven to be unsound. It never made a profit, unlike most bridges at the time, and eventually fell apart. When his creditors started pursuing him, he ran away to join the French Revolution, where his meddling with factions eventually got him thrown in jail and nearly got his head chopped off.

Sherman's faults are not as colorful. He tried to ban paper money at the Philadelphia Convention, leading to the one of the few times he got politically out maneuvered. His faction at the Convention of 1787 defeated Washington's by forming an alliance between the small eastern states and the slave-poor southern states, which explains why the original Constitution did such a good job of supporting slavery. Not that the dominant Virginia-Pennsylvania faction had the moral high ground: the Virginians opposed importation of slaves for the same reason Michigan senators used to oppose the importation of German and Japanese cars--undercut the value of domestic production. The nominally antislavery Pennsylvanians chose to simply overlook this "local problem".

Sigh, but you can only fight one revolution at a time, I guess.

[merrily]

7. None wants to be too revolting.

[merrily]

5. Hmm. Paine left town, leaving his wife behind. (No divorce then.)

I don't know what her circumstances were, but I know there were not a lot of great jobs for women then--probably zero--and working as someone's maid was not always safe. Let's hope she had a rich dad or brother or brother in law.

On one of his trips to England, Franklin met Paine and thought Paine would make a great propagandist for war, so he brought him to the colonies. And, Franklin was correct. Paine was a great rabble rouser.

After the war, though, things got uneven. He got compensated for his political services, but got into trouble in France. This led to his feeling Washington had not been sufficiently supportive of him in that matter and he called Washington treacherous and blessed him with a few other insults.

In writing. Published. This led to a loss of popularity in the US, including refusal of the Quakers to bury him

Bottom line, though: Hell of a writer. Influenced a lot of people, including Napoleon Had many good and forward looking social ideas.

Like all of us, a mixed bag, but, unlike all of us, a giant.

[merrily]

8. My favorite Founding Fathers were Abigail Adams and Anne Hutchinson.

Last edited Fri Jul 4, 2014, 05:35 AM - Edit history (1)

I took two because roles for women were so limited then. Especially once the getting burned at the stake as a witch slots were all taken.

Abigail Adams.

Abigail, obviously was the wife of John Adams, who did fight some not to carry slavery into the new nation He failed, but he tried. However, suppposedly, when Abigail said, "Don't forget the women, John," the reply was the 18th century equivalent of "Don't be ridiculous." Still, she tried.

While her husband was away, she took care of the farm, raised her children and grandchildren and wrote her husband. She was very intelligent and her husband often sought her advice. Their letters give a nice glimpse into the era, as well as their relationship. She was a hostess

Her husband was the first U.S. minister to the Court of St James's (Britain), the post much later held by another Massachusetts fellow, Joe Kennedy. As his hostess she was engaging and an interesting conversationalist

She was a feminist and, like her husband, opposed slavery.


Anne Hutchinson

Anne Hutchinson, born Anne Marbury (1591–1643), was a Puritan spiritual adviser, mother of 15, and important participant in the Antinomian Controversy that shook the infant Massachusetts Bay Colony from 1636 to 1638. Her strong religious convictions were at odds with the established Puritan clergy in the Boston area, and her popularity and charisma helped create a theological schism that threatened to destroy the Puritans' religious experiment in New England. She was eventually tried and convicted, then banished from the colony with many of her supporters.

......


Anne was a midwife, and very helpful to those needing her assistance, as well as forthcoming with her personal religious understandings. Soon she was hosting women at her house weekly, providing commentary on recent sermons. These meetings became so popular that she began offering meetings for men as well, including the young governor of the colony, Henry Vane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Hutchinson

I won't keep quoting, but I urge you to read the wiki. It's hard to convey how interesting, brave and ahead of her time she was--and how mistreated.

[clarice]

10. + 100. nt

[Hoyt]

9. John Adams and Thomas Paine. Unlike others, they spoke of liberty/freedom and did not own slaves.

[Nye Bevan]

11. See my avatar (nt)

[riderinthestorm]

12. 2 people. Ben Franklin - super intelligent with a great sense of humor.

Abigail Adams - because she was the smartest person of them all I believe.

I'd love to go out to dinner with those two - it would be a blast!

Great thread pokerfan! Perfect for the July 4th holiday!

[LeftishBrit]

14. If someone from the land of King George (but not a royalist!) can nominate someone...

I'd like to mention a founding mother: Abigail Adams, a politically active person in her own right as well as First Lady, and a campaigner for women's rights, and against slavery.

And of course Benjamin Franklin, as a scientist as well as politician.

[Shrek]

15. Samuel Adams

May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

[COLGATE4]

16. Ben Franklin. Not only a Master Mason

but also a practicing member of the Hellfire Club, an upper-class British society which was founded to promote random sexual encounters among its members and willing ladies.

[rug]

17. Hamilton.

Absolutely brilliant.

[socialist_n_TN]

18. Yeah, I agree with you.........

Paine came closer to "walking the walk" than any of them IMO.

[yuiyoshida]

19. Gotta go with UNCLE BEN...

[sarisataka]

20. Ben Franklin

extremely intelligent with good foresight and someone to party with after the days work is done

[MineralMan]

21. Jefferson, I think.

Ben Franklin, too.

[Nye Bevan]

29. In spite of his hundreds of slaves? And his enormous Monticello vanity project? And Sally Hemings?

Give me the plainspoken, simple living New Englander who had absolutely no truck with slavery any day.

[YoungDemCA]

39. Jefferson had some very, very serious flaws as a human being

He was also incredibly brilliant.

Both of these things can be true.

[frogmarch]

22. John Adams, mainly because

he's my -a-whole-bunch-of-times-removed cousin. Our common ancestors were John and Elizabeth (Thompson) Cogswell.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. My country is the world, and my religion is to do good. Thomas Paine

Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best stage, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

To establish any mode to abolish war, however advantageous it might be to Nations, would be to take from such Government the most lucrative of its branches. Thomas Paine

When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon. Thomas Paine

A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. Thomas Paine

[Motown_Johnny]

24. Unquestionably Benjamin Franklin

So many reasons, but I will offer just one.

The Lightning Rod!


You must remember that we are talking about a time when people didn't have any concept of what electricity was. Lightning was still in the realm of thunderbolts thrown from the heavens by an angry god. Ben changed all of that. He was able to grasp that lightning was a natural phenomenon and therefore could be studied and even influenced by humans.


This is a huge step in the understanding of the world. His invention also made it clear to everyone that natural phenomenon could be understood by humans. Of course the religious conservatives (you know the type) held out and refused to believe that something as powerful as lightning could be anything other than something sent directly from a superior being. Eventually even they had to give in since those tall buildings with the crosses on them were the only ones being damaged by lightning strikes once all the other tall buildings had installed lightning rods. So either those things worked or "God" was targeting churches. This invention changed the way humans view the world.




If this post is interesting to you then I suggest you read "The Fateful Lightning" by Issac Asimov, it describes the lightning rod's impact on rational thinking far better than I ever could. It is included in the collections "The Stars In Their Courses&quot 1971) and "The Edge Of Tomorrow&quot 1985).

[flamingdem]

26. Ethan Allen

[hrmjustin]

27. Probably John Adams.

[JustAnotherGen]

28. Abigail Adams

http://www.thelizlibrary.org/suffrage/abigail.htm



APRIL 14, 1776
JOHN ADAMS TO ABIGAIL ADAMS

"As to your extraordinary code of laws, I cannot but laugh.

"We have been told that our struggle has loosened the bonds of government everywhere; that children and apprentices were disobedient; that schools and colleges were grown turbulent; that Indians slighted their guardians, and negroes grew insolent to their masters.


MAY 7, 1776
ABIGAIL ADAMS TO JOHN ADAMS

"I cannot say that I think you are very generous to the ladies; for, whilst you are proclaiming peace and good-will to men, emancipating all nations, you insist upon retaining an absolute power over wives.



Tee hee! Good question - trick answer. But the daughter of the UU Pastor - she influenced.

[wavesofeuphoria]

35. +1 my choice as well

[Tetris_Iguana]

30. Paine is pretty good but I have to go with Jefferson.

Seeing as he wrote The Declaration and all.

[pokerfan]

31. Sure

but it's also possible that without Common Sense there may not have been a Declaration.

And Paine, for all his faults enumerated upthread, was very much against slavery.

[H2O Man]

32. Red Jacket

[Turbineguy]

33. Stan Freberg

OK, maybe he was a Refounding Father.

[jmowreader]

34. Benjamin Franklin. He invented the Public Servant

[Aristus]

36. Franklin and Adams.

Franklin because he was, in so many ways, the forefather of modern American liberalism.

John Adams, even though he did a hard lurch to the right after becoming President. Simply because he's the one I know most about, and have known about the longest. In 1974, my father played John Adams in a military production of 1776 on Fort Huachuca, AZ. A highly elaborate affair considering how small and remote the post was. The theater rented the costumes that had been used in the film of 1776, and built a breath-taking set for the 2nd Continental Congress.

I was watching the film earlier today, and remarked that I've been a fan of the movie, of John Adams, and of William Daniels, who played Adams on Broadway and in the film, for 40 years now. As I grew older, I learned the truth behind the myths, legends, and exaggerations in American history, and correspondingly increased my respect for that disparate, contentious group of men.

[A HERETIC I AM]

37. Otis Schmelgenthorn.

He was always in the back, and whenever he was asked his opinion, he would respond with "Where's the whiskey I asked for?"

[YoungDemCA]

38. Definitely Paine, though calling him a "Founding Father" is iffy

Definitely a good man though.

[pokerfan]

43. A filthy little atheist -Teddy Roosevelt

Even though his name is relatively well known, it is not nearly as celebrated as one may imagine given such a wild, intense existence, and such a deep impact on history. Paine was after all the man who came up with the terms “United States of America,” and is credited by many to be the ideological father of modern democracy. So why is his face not on the dollar bills? Why is he not hanging out with Jefferson & co. on Mt. Rushmore? Why is he not given his due among the greatest American heroes?

Paine’s problem is that he didn’t die in 1792. Had he done that, his place among the pantheon of beloved founding fathers would have been assured. But instead he lived, and wrote another book entitled The Age of Reason. The result? By the time he actually died in 1809, only six people attended his funeral. The most repeated of his obituaries by the newspapers read, “he had lived long, did some good and much harm.” His supporters found themselves under relentless attacks. Thomas Jefferson’s political opponents had a field day using over and over his friendship with Paine against him. Abraham Lincoln’s friends burned a booklet he had written, in which he defended Paine’s ideas, for fear that this would irreparably ruin his reputation. Over a hundred years after Paine’s death, Theodore Roosevelt still referred to him as a “filthy little atheist.”

What exactly was it about The Age of Reason that transformed Paine into a ghost among the founding fathers? Why did he turn overnight from popular hero into a hated villain? It’s because the man took on organized religion with a furor, in an age when doing so was neither fashionable nor conducive to good health.

- See more at: http://disinfo.com/2011/12/the-filthy-little-atheist-founding-father/#sthash.D9jRtsqf.dpuf

[pscot]

40. Washington

Except for him we'd still be English.

[SteveG]

41. Franklin and Madison

nt

[WhiteTara]

42. I'll go with my Great to the something Uncle

who wrote the Constitution and the Preamble was all his, flowery language and all. Gouvenier Morris...and my Great to the something Grandfather who signed the Declaration and when told to consider the consequences, simply said...Hand me that paper. The English burned his house to the ground.