General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFeminist professor offers extra credit to women who stop shaving legs and arm pits
A similar opportunity is available to men in Fahs classes who recieve extra credit for shaving all of their hair from the neck down.
One student, Stephanie Robinson, described it as a life-changing experience:
Many of my friends didnt want to work out next to me or hear about the assignment, and my mother was distraught at the idea that I would be getting married in a white dress with armpit hair. I also noticed the looks on faces of strangers and people around campus who seemed utterly disgusted by my body hair. It definitely made me realize that if youre not strictly adhering to socially prescribed gender roles, your body becomes a site for contestation and public opinion.
Men seemed to have an easier time with it since some degree of manscaping has become accepted, or even expected.
The norm of women shaving body hair dates back to an effort by Gillette to expand their market for razors. Starting around 1915, Gillette started a campaign denouncing the (previously inoffensive) female underarm hair as unsightly, masculine and unclean. In the 1920s, they expanded their efforts to leg hair, glamorizing a smooth, silky leg.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/07/04/3456646/arizona-professor-offers-extra-credit-to-female-students-who-stop-shaving-their-armpits/
MADem
(135,425 posts)shaved their bodies as prostitutes! They made an exception for movie stars and wealthy ladies, but a village woman who did such a thing was regarded as "fallen."
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)but again the title is a lie and purposefully meant to anger. The men have a chance for extra credit to but just has to shave differently and write about it. Why do titles constantly have to work to incite???????? Why can't authors just be honest in their article titles?
MADem
(135,425 posts)and BADA BING, you've put eyes on an ad beside an article (they hope--they haven't figured out ad blockers yet, or not enough people are using them to bother).
It does reduce every conversation to a "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!! Take a position!!!! HOLD YOUR GROUND!!!! DAMN, that SUCKS!!!!!" dynamic, and that's unfortunate....
I think we're all better off not taking any of these articles that are clearly designed to wind people up too seriously.
I don't know if the author always has control over the headlines, either. On blogs, if it is their work, or they are showcasing someone else's with a goal of making a point, they do, but in a newspaper the editors will often write the headline.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)It's eye-opening to realize how many of our norms are relatively new and entirely cultural.
Take pink for girls and blue for boys. Even people who realize that this is a convention often concede that the color divisions seem to make sense on some gut level.
And yet less than 100 years ago, the colors were reversed:
...
In 1927, Time magazine printed a chart showing sex-appropriate colors for girls and boys according to leading U.S. stores. In Boston, Filenes told parents to dress boys in pink. So did Best & Co. in New York City, Halles in Cleveland and Marshall Field in Chicago.
Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/when-did-girls-start-wearing-pink-1370097/#oOfzaIaOOs4ewdvg.99
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,771 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,922 posts)Wears a pink suit. But Double R Superstar wore it much better than Big D.
Iggo
(47,571 posts)Kaleva
(36,354 posts)"Before the 2000 presidential election, the traditional color-coding scheme was "Blue for Republican, Red for Democrat,"[3] in line with historical European associations (red was used for left-leaning parties)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Excellent article, too!
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)I always tell folks that although I may not always been in sync with it, I have no problem with the concept of "popular culture." (After all, in principle that's a very democratic idea.) Unfortunately, what we currently think of as popular culture isn't that at all. It's really "corporate culture," a set of norms that are unwittingly foisted upon us by advertisers and marketers and the greedy, soulless companies who pay them. We think we're making our own decisions, when in reality we often aren't. We're like a bunch of Pavlovian dogs, who don't even realize we're being trained to salivate on cue.
(Glad you liked the article!)
snooper2
(30,151 posts)then before the finals they can wear Adidas for the final month to understand early hip-hop culture
no_hypocrisy
(46,212 posts)I went to Europe. And yep, I wore sleeveless shirts and shorts. I fit right in.
msongs
(67,453 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Can't live without them.
JI7
(89,276 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)Beauty norms are intended to appeal to the male gaze, but the implications of not complying with them goes far beyond just not pleasing random males.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)I have personally felt more pressure from other females regarding my fashion choices.
Same goes for men. For instance, beards. Guys seem to admire each other's beards but women in general aren't crazy about beards.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)It's interesting, but what's most interesting to me is how harsh the policing is for women.
If it was limited to admiring things people like it wouldnt be so compelling to me. It's the nasty hateful stuff, over something as meaningless as body hair, that makes me wonder wtf.
Skittles
(153,202 posts)I'll stick to my clean pits, thanks
leg hair - meh, it's blonde so I don't care
3catwoman3
(24,054 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 6, 2014, 07:00 PM - Edit history (1)
I am darker haired, so I'll stick with the clean shaven look for myself. I need to dress professionally, including pantyhose. Have you ever seen dark leg hair all twisted up under hosiery? Really unappealing.
Friends of mine have told me as we mature (I refuse to say "age" our leg and axillary hair stops growing. I'm 63 and and still waiting. Any time would be fine.
Skittles
(153,202 posts)I honestly feel I am not doing anything because society expects me to - I don't wear dresses or high heels or any jewelry - I just prefer a shaved look / feel
3catwoman3
(24,054 posts)...or what the prevailing societal norms were. I would laser it all off if I could afford to.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)almost none under my arms and you need to look closely to see it on my legs. The hair that bothers me most, is the hair that grows on my toe knuckles. It looks like two big spiders sitting on my feet.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)My husband could care less about shaving anywhere so I never did.
As far as armpits go, deodorant and anti-perspirants are useless. I work outside doing physical labor every day and that stuff is pretty useless within 30 minutes of being outside. Besides, I DO work outside so nobody "smells" me anyway over the horse odors. Bottom line, I don't do my pits either.
That said (TMI?), as an Irish woman, I have a pass on shaving anyway....
Skittles
(153,202 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)they'd have to put up with a hairy me (everywhere) after that since it was all too much effort on a regular basis.
European women are soooo much farther along than Americans. They've trained their men to love and adore their hairy natural selves. My husband's a Polack and I'm an Irish/American so after the first date I threw away the blades (28 years later....)
Skittles
(153,202 posts)(although...."put out" makes it sound more like a chore than something fun)
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)I went over to a friend's house and his older brother answered the door - and he had hair growing under his arms. Bleah. I was totally grossed out.
The thought that really turned my stomach though was - someday that is gonna happen to me.
It was like I had found out Darth Vader was my father.
Skittles
(153,202 posts)that men who are grossed out by armpit hair on gals have no problem sporting it themselves, as if we think it's some kind of turnon
Chan790
(20,176 posts)I used to swim so I used to remove or trim as much body-hair as I could...as an anecdotal observation, women seem to really hate a depilated underarm on a guy.
Want to depilate your chest or back or ass or legs...they're okay with it. Shave your head and grow a mountain man beard. They'll accept it even if they hate it. Remove all the hair from your elbows up...you'd think you just suggested killing puppies on a second date for the lack of second dates you'll get.
Skittles
(153,202 posts)but guys, a little manscaping can be nice, especially if you demand rigid lady gardening
Chan790
(20,176 posts)It's uncomfortable, holds odor and I find my own body hair aesthetically-displeasing. (I'm rather fine with other people's body hair...it's my own that I hate.)
csziggy
(34,138 posts)So I shave it when it gets very long. I shave my leg hair when I feel like it, but I dislike the feel of my jeans on bare legs and HATE the stubble as it grows out, so I don't shave often.
What's odd is that I have more leg and body hair than my husband. Good thing he doesn't care - if I'm OK with hair so is he.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)csziggy
(34,138 posts)I swear my arm pit stink as bad or worse than a little box that hasn't been cleaned out for weeks if I don't shave them every so often whether or not I put on deodorant.
My cat is disgusted by the smell and won't cuddle when I stink.
IronLionZion
(45,543 posts)and I'll do the same. Judging is just as stupid as trying to push someone towards your point of view.
I've dated hairy hippies before. The blonde and redhead ones are OK and even somewhat attractive, but NOT the dark haired ones.
I defiantly make no apologies for preferring to date women who shave. A lot of women prefer to date someone other than me and I don't blame white beauty standards for it. You can't guilt manipulate someone into attraction.
treestar
(82,383 posts)At least, armpits.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Not just women, men as well--and it's customary (as well as a religious duty) to do a bit of "scaping" around the fiddly bits as well.
For men, facial hair is very Islamic but pits and fiddly bits, not so much.
Everyone (regardless of gender) is expected to give everything a trim every forty days at a minimum.
http://islamqa.info/en/26266
kickysnana
(3,908 posts)Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)Well I keep a trim goatee & mustache. But I shave my arms & chest. I have quite a few tattoos and they look much better when I'm clean shaven. And they "pop out" better when I shave & apply lotion. I have a few tats on my legs. But I don't wanna shave them. I'm light haired and that's just to much shave time. I feel for women but still prefer a clean shaven wife. Luckily for me, she doesn't like hair.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I used to work above a dermatologist's office, and when they first got in the laser depilatory set-up, I let them test it out on me, on my neck. It felt like I was being stabbed in the throat over and over with needles. When I found out I'd have to do it a half dozen times or so to make it stay gone, I said no thanks. But I could probably endure it if the goal was not to constantly have to shave a tattooed area.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)and also how harshly they're enforced for women.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)The assignment by the teacher? The reaction? The cultural norms?
I am not surprised that there would be varying reactions to the teacher's extra credit project--I think that was the point, to challenge cultural paradigms.
How can people do any challenging if they do not discuss their honest feelings, which are a product of their cultural upbringing?
redqueen
(115,103 posts)This assignment is exposing the harsh reinforcement of one particular beauty norm. And for some reason, a lot of the replies are 'Well I do this or that' or 'Well I like blah blah blah'.
This has nothing to do with any individual's likes or dislikes with respect to body hair. Yet most of the replies are about just that. Seems to me to be a rather blatant side-stepping of the actual topic of the thread but... whatever.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The men are asked to shave everything from the neck down, and the women are asked to not shave anything.
And then they all have to keep a journal about it.
It's not a requirement for the class--it's extra credit.
I'm sure the journals the students are keeping have something to say about "likes or dislikes." I kind of think that's what the teacher was looking for--a personal reaction to going against a cultural paradigm, and how the students felt about it the longer they engaged in the practice.
I'll bet their first entries, once the fuzz got serious, or once the itching mandated another pass with the razor, the wax, whatever, sounded a lot like the "likes and dislikes" conversations here, along with complaints about how people are regarding them or how having to keep up with the "manscaping" makes them feel.
I think the whole point the teacher was going for was the feelings, the "likes and dislikes." Having to live every day going against the cultural paradigm is supposed to make the students think a bit more about the custom.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Do you honestly think I needed to have you explain that?
So done discussing this with you.
And no, the assignment was to record EXPERIENCES. Its about gender norms. Not whether these people think its comfy or stinky or whatever the hell.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Stopped at the first sentence of the clip and immediately transitioned to UMBRAGE MODE.
So yes--it did, HONESTLY, sound like you needed some clarity there. You didn't even MENTION the other half of the assignment.
This IS General Discussion, you know--you're speaking to the entire board, not a select subset. Being rude and nasty and dismissive to people plays less well in the wider community--and I didn't say a single thing that merited you getting so shitty and nasty to me.
I guess you're the only person in the world who thinks that EXPERIENCES are separate from FEELINGS.
How interesting! How ... detached!
I feel sorry for you, frankly.
I certainly wouldn't want to go through life not feeling anything as a consequence of my life's experiences...but hey, that's just me. I enjoy all aspects of life and find it quite precious. The feelings that result from experiences make life worth living.
I guess being dismissive with some "so done discussing" snark is preferable to you than digging down on the topic. Being confrontational and angry is a great way to avoid breaking down an interesting assignment, or acknowledging that people at different stages of their lives, from differing cultural backgrounds, might have differing takes on how people might "experience" the assignment (and like it or not, that includes their reactions to it--dare I say, their "feeeeeelings" .
It's just SO much easier to snark and run off than acknowledge that you may have misinterpreted someone's remarks. It's also so easy to think the worst of people--and you do that a lot. I'd say it's a failing on your part.
Now go have one of those swell days! Don't forget to take your righteous umbrage and ready offense with you, now! I have no need of it. You showed those evil haters at THINK PROGRESS a bit of what-for! Your work is done!
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Haters at think progress?
What the ever loving fuck are you talking about?
Seriously though, thanks for the splaining... quite topical
MADem
(135,425 posts)Go do it now, and see where you end up.
I do feel sorry for you. Your prejudices overwhelm your ability to have a reasoned conversation.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)I dunno what the hell makes you think you know what you're talking about but goddamn... Those are some seriously way out there ideas you've got there
MADem
(135,425 posts)When you've got nothing, use put downs.
I know what I'm talking about because I actually read the article. It's obvious you didn't--or you did and didn't absorb the content.
I feel sorry for you--you're lashing out at everyone participating in this thread, almost as though you don't want anyone to have a view of the subject that doesn't match yours.
Why is that, I wonder?
redqueen
(115,103 posts)It was cute how you somehow developed this idea that I didn't read it, or didn't understand it, and proceed to explain it all to me .. but your condescending shit is tired and overdone.
MADem
(135,425 posts)you are projecting your unhappiness on me with insults, put downs, and snark.
The condescending person in this conversation is you--your POV is the way and the light, no one else has the right answers, save you.
And anyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid, wrong, tired, overdone, etc. No one can have an opinion except YOU, and if they dare to, you call them names--with "emoticons!" That'll show 'em!
redqueen
(115,103 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)It's observable throughout this thread, and others.
You can't open a post without being mean. And - pot call kettle - hyperbolic in the extreme.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)When the first batch of comments are 'I' based, the instinct is to follow along and add your own 'I'.
And second, what is there about the topic of the thread to discuss, exactly? You either agree or disagree, and you're going to do it based upon your own degree of attachment to the cultural norms in re body-scaping, and your own beliefs in what is 'attractive'. I don't find hairy pits attractive on anyone, myself included. They're like straggly, unkempt beards on guys. I have yet to run into anyone who neatly trims their pit hair, braids it, dyes it. If people gave it the same amount of attention and care they do their head hair, it might be more attractive, I suppose.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)the politics of body hair is a pretty familiar topic going back decades.
If people are talking about non-political aspects of the story, it could be because that's just what they choose to talk about for whatever reason.
aikoaiko
(34,185 posts)I've never done it, but I bet shaving legs and pits would be edifying to men who haven't done so.
maced666
(771 posts)To shave...not shave...crediting one over the other? Whatever happened to it is her body?
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)maced666
(771 posts)Supplier for dollar shave club. Refuse to give the 2 big shave suppliers any money. Year supply with Gillette or schick is approximately 100 bucks yr...dorco, 30
MADem
(135,425 posts)MerryBlooms
(11,773 posts)since then, no.
I do what I do, you do what you do, and everyone else does what they do.
Why is it worth giving a fuck about what someone else shaves?
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Why do people react with horror? Not just strangers but friends and loved ones?
This is the entire point of the assignment. Examining what fuels this kind of reaction toward females who defy gendered beauty norms.
MerryBlooms
(11,773 posts)ridiculous, yet... every other month or so, another one of these idiotic posts gets posted. You'd think we were all older than 14ish, but who knows.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)MerryBlooms
(11,773 posts)You think this subject is over my head?
WTF?
redqueen
(115,103 posts)This isn't a "stupid fucking shaving post" this course is about GENDERED BEAUTY NORMS AND HOW THEY'RE ENFORCED FFS.
MerryBlooms
(11,773 posts)The point didn't go over my head and you can take your belittling bullshit attitude and shove it.
Go scream at an enemy.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)When the women in the class didn't shave, they were treated differently.
If everyone had your attitude (which they should), then the women who didn't shave wouldn't have noticed any change in how they were treated. Unfortunately, our society carries a lot of ingrained notions of what's "normal" for each gender, and some people react poorly when those "normal" ideas are challenged.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,383 posts)Not for what they'd look like, but the danger of slipping, with skin that it not well designed for shaving. It's a lot to ask for extra credit.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Plucking, or even threading!
muriel_volestrangler
(101,383 posts)and plucking sounds like a form of torture.
MADem
(135,425 posts)You double it and twist it, and roll it over the hairs.
The twisted threads "grab" the hairs and tear them out in a group.
Plucking is as it seems--a tweezers, and you yank the hairs out one or a few at a time.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Although I've never done it 'down there'. But I pluck the area under my lower lip above my chin. I just think I look too 'mountain man' if that areas is hairy.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,383 posts)MerryBlooms
(11,773 posts)known to man, for any OP about stupid fucking shaving posts.
MADem
(135,425 posts)People think it's all about women, or body-conscious men, but it has a religious component as well.
Hot wax is a popular way that some people remove hair.
The 40 Year Old Virgin movie had an hilarious (and painful) scene featuring that sort of manscaping.
BainsBane
(53,072 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)If you read the article, you will see that the women are required to grow the hair for the extra credit, and the men are required to shave all theirs. The men have more work than the women in this exercise.
No "misandry." It's a flip of standard hair-removal paradigms for the purpose of discussion about culture, traditions of beauty and attractiveness, male-female roles, etc. It's an academic exercise, and no one is forced to do it. However, if you are in the class and want to turn that potential C into a B, this is one way to make it happen.
BainsBane
(53,072 posts)But you see anything that makes women less Attractive to men is misandry. When women cut their hair short, that, we are told, is misandry. I figured this was just another step in the feminist conspiracy to force "men" to go overseas for suitable wives.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)how does she know he really shaved it all?
Yes I know this is not the point. So sue me.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)The extra credit is based on the experience journal. I could probably do it from memory as someone who shaved all their body hair for years as a swimmer and write an acceptable journal. Really, the only person you'd be cheating is yourself of an opportunity to experience cultural biases in a way you hadn't previously.
MADem
(135,425 posts)didn't really complete the assignment!
redqueen
(115,103 posts)and women's studies, do you?
Wow.
MADem
(135,425 posts)You're just wrong about the purpose of the assignment and the goals of the class, too.
And the American Psychological Association disagrees with you. But hey, you're the "smart one" and you know best!!!!
Maybe you can give us a list of YOUR awards, and all the papers YOU have written on this subject and related ones, to stack up against this professor's!
Her resume is at the end of the article--I think she's got more than enough credibility to teach on these matters--certainly more than you've demonstrated to this point.
I doubt her strategy in the classroom is put downs or insults, for example.
Oh, and you know what "insight" is, don't you? It's a byproduct of ... feelings.
https://asunews.asu.edu/20140703-body-shaving
.... For the extra-credit assignment, she asks male students to shave everything below the neck and maintain it for ten weeks. This makes the process labor-intensive and gives men some insight into what women who shave go through, she said.
Some male students have come up with strategies to add a macho element to the project. One guy did his shaving with a buck knife, Fahs said. Male students tend to adopt the attitude of, Im a man; I can do what I want.
Although a co-worker questioned why I shaved my legs, I felt comfortable in my own skin, says a former male participant, Kurt Keller. It helped having classmates who were so willing to lay it on the line too....Jaqueline Gonzalez credits the body hair project with helping to shape her into the activist she is today. The experience helped me better understand how pervasive gendered socialization is in our culture, Gonzalez said. Furthermore, by doing this kind of activist project I was no longer an armchair activist theorizing in the classroom. So much is learned by actually taking part in the theory or idea we learn in the classroom, and we could benefit from this type of pedagogy being taken up by similar classes.
Gonzalez isnt the only person who believes projects like this should be implemented elsewhere. Ive been surprised by the amount of positive feedback I have received, Fahs said. Faculty members at other universities are considering using the exercise in their classes. Fahs said she looks forward to seeing how the exercise works in other settings. There is a big difference between imagining not shaving and actually trying to not shave, she said.
And the American Psychological Association was so sufficiently impressed with the body hair exercise that the organization gave Fahs the Mary Roth Walsh Teaching the Psychology of Women Award through Division 35 in 2012. She has had papers about the project published in academic journals, including Feminism & Psychology, Psychology of Women Quarterly and Gender & Society.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Of all the things they could be doing (or not doing for that matter), shaving is pretty much at the bottom of importance. This is low-hanging fruit.
Who gives a crap about shaving practices, especially in light of the recent supreme court ruling!?
MADem
(135,425 posts)https://asunews.asu.edu/20140703-body-shaving
Theres no better way to learn about societal norms than to violate them and see how people react, said Fahs. Theres really no reason why the choice to shave, or not, should be a big deal. But it is, as the students tend to find out quickly.....That act of rebellion isnt quite the same for males as females, according to Fahs. Its not uncommon in our society for some men to engage in manscaping, removing hair from some parts of their bodies. For the extra-credit assignment, she asks male students to shave everything below the neck and maintain it for ten weeks. This makes the process labor-intensive and gives men some insight into what women who shave go through, she said.
Some male students have come up with strategies to add a macho element to the project. One guy did his shaving with a buck knife, Fahs said. Male students tend to adopt the attitude of, Im a man; I can do what I want.
Although a co-worker questioned why I shaved my legs, I felt comfortable in my own skin, says a former male participant, Kurt Keller. It helped having classmates who were so willing to lay it on the line too.....Fahs said theres more of a tendency on the part of women who stop shaving to be concerned about the reaction of their romantic partner. Men who shave tend to focus more on what other men think. Both genders bump up against sexism and heterosexism in their experiences, albeit in different ways, she explained.
....And the American Psychological Association was so sufficiently impressed with the body hair exercise that the organization gave Fahs the Mary Roth Walsh Teaching the Psychology of Women Award through Division 35 in 2012. She has had papers about the project published in academic journals, including Feminism & Psychology, Psychology of Women Quarterly and Gender & Society.
retread
(3,763 posts)"Gillette started a campaign denouncing the (previously inoffensive) female underarm hair as unsightly, masculine and unclean. In the 1920s, they expanded their efforts to leg hair, glamorizing a smooth, silky leg. "
The men who developed this are in a class with the ones that added the words "...rinse and repeat..." to shampoo bottles.
Orrex
(63,225 posts)That's likewise an unnatural act driven by marketing, along with hair-combing.
betsuni
(25,660 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)alphafemale
(18,497 posts),,,,,
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,383 posts)If so, why? Have you ever heard of any infection whatsoever caused by unshaved armpits (or other area)?
It's a remark like that that makes me think the lecturer is on to something important.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)You reek. Your smell is foul.
Stench of untrimmed armpit hairs. Oh nasty!
Your stench could backflip a buzzard off a garbage truck from a hundred yards.
Bad grooming is foul.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,383 posts)If you think there are, I presume you support the experiment the lecturer started. If not, is there any point pretending there are?
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Nasty lazy ass non groomers. Yuck.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,383 posts)alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Puzzle that one out all day my friend.
snicker.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)I guess they honestly do think that nearly all men and a good deal of women too must absolutely REEK at the end of the day
This thread is unreal
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)for me, because my leg and armpit hair stopped growing nearly ten years ago, in the middle of perimenopause. So it would be difficult for me to prove I don't shave.
PS...OTOH, chin and mustache hairs seem to have taken up the slack.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)It would provide similar responses. I'm sure a journal recording those experiences would be accepted for extra credit.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)and didn't see where women who didn't shave were absolutely required to wear clothing that showed off the hair, so unless they are required to do that, it wouldn't be fair.
Women can wear short sleeved shirts and capri pants to hide the hair if they choose to.
Facial hair is just out there for all to see.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)I think not removing facial hair would be an excellent way to document the different ways society polices female compliance vs. male compliance.
Not sure how it would or wouldn't be fair. The point is to document experiences and learn from the variance of those experiences.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Is this what people are paying perfectly good tuition money for these days?
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Because there are a LOT of classes out there that are all just 'factual', without any real emphasis on 'why' those facts are important. And if you don't have the 'whys', it's a lot harder to retain those facts for long periods, or to apply them in more generalized situations.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's all in the article.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 6, 2014, 06:49 PM - Edit history (1)
Talking about gender roles and norms in a Sociology class is one thing, but a whole class --and at some universities an entire major -- in "gender studies" just seems a bit trivial when you're talking about tens or even hundreds of thousands of bucks in tuition money.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If you don't like the courses, eschew them.
The article is about people who took the course and learned something from the extra credit experiment.
The bottom line is this--unless you're majoring in a nuts-and-bolts type of discipline, like "accounting" or "chemistry," or "education" with a certification to teach at the end of the academic rainbow, you're not going to be prepared to do much more than THINK with a bachelor's degree, particularly the bachelor of arts. But that IS what college teaches young people--how to think. They take the fire hose of learn these facts/memorize this for the first 12 years of their schooling, and in the latter four, they learn how to think, to examine how they FEEL about things.
I think learning how to think--and figuring out how a person feels--about these kinds of appearance and gender related issues is a very worthy growth activity. I don't think it's time wasted at all. If those kids do nothing but manage a pizza parlor after they graduate college, they'll at least have an insight into how to treat their customers as a consequence of that course. It may well influence how they deal with their employees, to say nothing of how they approach their neighbors and friends.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)with a solid grounding in sociology, history, psychology, and literature. You could even try the same experiment in a psychology or sociology class. I'm sorry, but this class just strikes me as a little silly and a waste of time. Our universities have become bloated and expensive enough. Call me a hardheaded Midwesterner, raised by hardheaded Midwesterners.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If the class doesn't have any utility or hold any interest, eventually the word will go forth and the students will eschew it. That's not happening. Instead, the curriculum is being exported, so clearly the students are getting something from it.
Like I said, if you think it is "silly" or stupid or useless, don't sign up for it. No one would force you to take the course, certainly. I think there is a place for gender studies in this big old world of ours, but that's JMO and I don't demand subscriptions to my POV.
This isn't a private school, either--it's a state school. The in-state tuition is ten grand. Out of state, 26K. They also have graduate programs under their Gender Studies umbrella.
You should see what the bills look like for Boston-area private unis--enough to make you consider a need for a pacemaker.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)And, as a guy, I already do shave my pits, albeit somewhat irregularly - I find it helps keep the BO levels down if the hair isn't there to trap the moisture and smells. If I were wearing outfits where it would show, I'd probably shave it regularly. It's no more attractive on men than on women.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If you are a hairy male, you are working your ass off maintaining a hairless body from the neck down, and maintenance is a requirement. Granted, men can cover up their legs and arms and chests and backs, and lie, but this is Arizona where the experiment is taking place, where students often wear shorts around campus.
OTOH, the women participating in the experiment could wear trousers and sleeves to cover up hairy legs and pits and so forth, but the fashion nowadays is towards sleeveless options and shorts, so they'd have to be both out of fashion AND warm in a hotter environment.
The students pictured seem to be embracing the project:
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)A lot of men shave their chest hair, especially body builders and models.
Swimmers and cyclists and some runners shave their legs and arm hair to cut down on drag.
So it's more work for the guys in terms of maintenance, but perhaps more socially acceptable for men to go hairless than it is for women to go hairy.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)or arms or face or....
They call me the hairless wonder, all the hair on my body is on my head. No idea how that happened. Lack of estrogen? Don't think so. not sure why. I do have hair on my arms and legs but it was blonde and short and fine like fur only not enough to see.
or would this not count?
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Then it is more of a reflection of the shallow depth of the student's life going into the class.
The problem is that the assumption at the beginning of the exercise is that societal mores are inherently bad.
pfitz59
(10,397 posts)got a fetish, you see.....