Obama using immigration reform as umbrella to eliminate your skilled job via H-1Bs

[brentspeak]

Border crisis? Mexican immigrant families with children who caught in limbo? Humanitarian dilemma? Obama wants to do something about it.

Sounds very "liberal" and "progressive", doesn't it? But dig deeper, and you'll find that Obama wants to do something about your or your spouse's or your child's good-earning tech job, as well -- namely, give it away to foreigners who'll work it for a fraction of the salary and benefits. The Obama admin is using the issue of "immigration reform" as cover to accommodate Wall St. and Silicon Valley's heavily lobbied push to increase the number of H-1B visas available for tech companies to replace American tech workers.

The Obama White House has already backed a plan to unilaterally expand the H-1B visa pool to include the spouses of H-1B guest workers.

This is what's known as New Democrat "triangulation": using liberal-sounding issues to covertly push for a corporate agenda. A kinder, gentler Ronald Reagan presidency. Your loss is some socially-liberal but middle-class-destroying millionaire's gain.

[amandabeech]

1. It seems that there has been no administration in my life time that has responded

adequately to the lack of jobs for so many people who are citizens or permanent legal residents.

Occasionally, there have been periods with plenty of jobs, but most of the time it seems to be a real struggle for Americans who are looking for work.

We are now required to compete against the world for jobs here, or so it sometimes seems, while employers move jobs overseas.

We simply do not need any more competition than the competitors who are already here, and there are plenty of them.

My enthusiasm for the Democratic Party over the years has gone down as the Democrats have embraced large scale immigration, both documented and undocumented, and brought in more and more temporary visa workers no matter what the actual job situation is. The quality of life here has gone down due to the employment situation. That cannot continue indefinitely without very serious social and political consequences.

[upaloopa]

40. The vast majority of undocumented immigrants

are unskilled and do not compete against us for jobs. That is not unless you are trying to get a farm labor job. Then the employer is usually a large labor contractor who checks for documentation though sometimes there are forgeries.
I was the controller of the largest labor contractor in the San Joaquin Valley.
Your message has been used for decades and decades to turn people against immigration. It has had little effect since it is mostly bogus. Today the tide of immigration is small compared to past years. You should go after the employers not the immigrants.

[amandabeech]

47. My experience is very different from yours.

In my home area, immigrants have displaced US workers in most other unskilled and semi-skilled position, not just field labor.

In my own career, I am now competing against immigrants as well, and I am not an unskilled or semi-skilled worker.

People like you think that you have the only experience out there with respect to immigration.

I would love to go after the employers and make E-verify mandatory, but I don't see that happening. Too many people who give money to both parties benefit.

[upaloopa]

48. Sorry I don't believe you. You give no facts

[amandabeech]

49. I prefer to hide my community's identity when I discuss this issue with

someone that I don't know because the issue is so socially charged in my home area that if anyone knew what I was saying, it might not be good for me and my elderly mother who lives there. We're talking about extremely small towns, and I don't want to cause problems for my mom.

But I suppose that you can't believe that either.

[FreakinDJ]

2. It was a Poison Pill the GOP pushed for

[brentspeak]

3. No, it was a poison pill both the GOP AND Obama pushed for

http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election/2014/05/06/administration-proposes-allowing-h-1b-spouses-to-work/

[alp227]

42. Which Republicans backed this?

Your source quotes republicans AGAINST H1B's.

[Travis_0004]

4. how is H1 visa bad but other immigration good?

Imigration reform will push down wages but it is almost universally supported. So why is it bad when somebody comes he legally?

[NOVA_Dem]

5. I don't think immigration reform is quite the winner we think it is for the Democratic party.

I don't think Immigration Reform is that popular among the poor and union households (especially with the crisis in Texas). I'm surprised I haven't heard more complaints from unions about immigration reform. Businesses entice immigrants to come to the US illegally b/c they work for low wages and they can be treated poorly with little or no repercussions.

[upaloopa]

44. Undocumented immigrants don't compete for union jobs.

I am in the SEIU. Documented immigrants in our union who work for the service industry have been fighting for a $10.00/ hr living wage long before you ever thought about it. They can out organize any of us and in Santa Monica and other cities they have won bringing the rest of us the benefit of their hard won gains.
Your bull shit scare propaganda was learned from someone just like you who doesn't know what the truth is!

[NOVA_Dem]

50. That shit might work on Republicans so take that elsewhere. Take your straw-man someplace else.

It's hard to organize when you're in the country illegally.

[treestar]

6. No that's just getting out of the 1950s

That the spouses can't work would be because when the law was enacted, it was the 1950s. Then all the visas went to men and of course their wives needed no employment permission!

[bigtree]

7. this smells like an attempt to muddy the president's immigration efforts

. . . it stinks to high heaven.

Why don't you outline what you believe is proper immigration policy and we can compare it to the entirety of the President's. Your claim that his immigration efforts are just a stalking horse for increasing H-1B guest workers borders on outright opposition of any of the President's immigration efforts in it's distortion and omissions of Obama's actual policy.

What a load of shit. No fucking better than the yahoos raising hell down south. The only change Obama has made in the H-1B guest workers is a proposal to allow the spouses of existing workers to gain employment. That's a great deal less than the hysterical claims of some sort of plot by the president.

[brentspeak]

8. Kindly stuff your manufactured outrage

That mere "only change" which Obama would make to the H-1B guest worker would effectively double the H-1B program right off the bat. That's twice as many Americans thrown to the curb to satisfy Wall St's immediate greed, followed by the inevitable accelerated depreciation in the wages and salaries of those American tech workers whose jobs don't get the axe -- for decades to come.

Perhaps if Obama wasn't -- in typical contemporary Corporate Democrat/GOP presidential manner -- pathologically dishonest enough to include the H-1B expansion within his immigration reform platform in the first place could you actually could make a truthful argument that Obama's motives are trustworthy in this matter.

[bigtree]

9. stuff your obvious bigotry

. . . and your distortions of immigration policy.

[brentspeak]

10. "You're a bigot": The usual last refuge

of a cheap labor, wage-killing, job-offshoring cheerleader.

(And the second-to-last refuge of scoundrels in general, too).

[bigtree]

13. wives shouldn't be allowed work visas

. . . a bigoted position.

[brentspeak]

15. I thought all those displaced American female programmers

who are opposed to the H-1B program are really bigots (and sexists) at heart, along with their displaced American male counterparts, but now I have final confirmation. Those disgusting, heartless, bigoted (and sexist) and now (or soon-to-be) unemployed bastards.

And I also now know why Silicon Valley pumped several millions of dollars into lobbying Obama and the GOP for H-1B expansion -- combating bigotry against men's wives. That was what it was about all along. Good thing they have people like yourself speaking out on their behalf. Give yourself a medal.

[bigtree]

16. I don't think they're just using the issue of H-1Bs as a wedge against immigration reform efforts

. . . of the President - not like you've done here.

Nowhere in your op did you outline any positive aspect of the administration's efforts. As far as you're concerned, the H-1B issue is a convenient wedge to divide folks and turn them away from the type of reform our party advocates.

Quite simply, I believe you are determined to be hostile to migrant individuals, using appeals that only give comfort to bigots and anti-immigration advocates.

[brentspeak]

17. Yes, I should instead be rah-rahing the administration's efforts

to more easily displace American tech workers in favor of cheap tech labor imported from abroad -- efforts cynically undertaken by the Obama administration after being wined-and-dined by an army of Silicon Valley tech lobbyists. And I should obscure the entire heinous thing by directing people's attention away from it and instead onto the administration's nebulous statements about immigration reform in general...

Hey, sub-genius -- I'm not a paid shill for this administration or for Wall St. And you couldn't possibly be representative of anything other than the DC lobbyists' wing of "our party" -- if you are even part of that. Anyone who is so mendacious as to impugn another as a "bigot" for opposing the expansion of the H-1B scam has very little to do with "our party".

[840high]

38. ...^ that

[pnwmom]

18. What is your solution to the problem of the disappearance of well paying jobs

while we are at the same time pretending there's a shortage of qualified people to fill them, allowing us to issue increasing numbers of H-1B visas?

What the visas do is allow companies like Boeing to lay off older workers and replace them with new graduates willing to work for half the money. This is actually happening right now. Boeing is dismantling its research center in Seattle, laying off thousands of experienced, well-educated technical workers, and then hiring new employees in "centers of excellence" in non-union states. 40% of those new hires are expected to be fresh out of school. Some of them will have H-1B visas. How is that justified?

[FreakinDJ]

32. He doesn't have one - just the GOP position of giving away what last few good American jobs are left

[FreakinDJ]

29. Wrong - it increased H1B visas 400%

Last I heard they were even proposing changes to the H2B visa program as well to take what few construction worker's jobs were left away too

[brentspeak]

31. Thanks, I stand corrected

The situation is worse than I imagined.

[FreakinDJ]

33. New H2B visas to take away construction jobs too

The GOP literally lined up to throw Pro-Business Wage Killing provisions into the bill

[Puzzledtraveller]

52. I am beginning to think it's no use.

Where we are now is a very dangerous place IMO. Thanks for sticking to your guns so to speak. Good and important post I know will be dismissed by many here.

[pa28]

12. "Your loss is some socially-liberal but middle-class-destroying millionaire's gain."

Your comment is right on the mark.

This is exactly what our donor compliant Democratic leadership is up to and I see that merely pointing out the truth has earned you an accusation of bigotry.

[bigtree]

14. complaining because the president is offering the spouses of workers a chance to get jobs is bigotry

. . . no matter what nationalistic nonsense you wrap it in.

[pnwmom]

19. The spouses should be able to get jobs on the same basis the original worker does.

Because it's filling a necessary spot that can't be filled by an American. Though, of course, this limitation is widely ignored -- as is the requirement that holders of visas be paid the prevailing wage.

[bigtree]

21. that concern makes sense

The way the visa works is that companies have a job opening and they solicit these foreign workers to fill that exact position and the worker is granted the visa. So, I can see where this proposal is sort of a back door and it makes sense that folks who argue against the visas in the first place can't support any more expansion of foreign workers.

Many H4 dependents, majority women, are consigned to being unemployed once they move to the U.S. In their home countries they were often high-earning, largely independent workers. But after moving to the U.S., they’re unable to work or even open an individual bank account. They’re ineligible to get a social security number and find it prohibitively difficult to get a driver’s license. Their rights have been compared with those of women living in some of the most oppressive parts of the world.

H1-B visa restrictions and financial dependency limits an H4 abuse victim from getting a divorce, alimony, or custody of children. Immigration laws render H4 spouses defenseless at the whims of their husbands, who have the power to change her status to an undocumented immigrant.

I would argue that if someone is good enough to import for their labor skills, at least have the decency to treat them and their family like you would anyone else. If you're going to allow a couple to come into the country and IF you're going to allow one of them to work, it makes sense to allow the other to work legally. If you don't, they'll probably work illegally, but having them here and not working isn't helpful. As long as they are here, the best thing for America is that they are being productive. It's best that they be doing something useful and then paying taxes like other workers.

[pnwmom]

25. I don't understand the need for all those other restrictions -- having a bank account, for example,

or a social security number. I wonder what the rationale is for making those impossible to obtain. (Babies now get them at birth and they don't have jobs!)

And why would it be prohibitively expensive to get a drivers license? Do they have to pay any more than anyone else? I know a number of Microsoft spouses, and they all drive . . .

[bigtree]

28. it has to do with the government's requirement for documentation

. . . and a catch-22 in obtaining that info here in the U.S. because of their status. Lack of a bank account can hold you up, lack of a social security number . . . the Government stopped giving SSNs to people on dependent visas. But they do give an official denial letter, specifying as to why they can’t issue you an SSN card. You can show this denial letter in order to get your driving license.

The reasons vary with some states accepting some documentation and others more restrictive in their requirements. It's not impossible, just hurdles that many H4 dependents can't overcome.

[pnwmom]

34. Those sound like obstacles that could and should be removed,

without the need for opening more US jobs -- who have plenty of US applicants -- to visa holders.

[Populist_Prole]

30. I think it's right on the mark as well

Both the quote and the sentence regarding the reaction to said quote.

[chowder66]

20. Don't you have something better to do?

This is pure bullshit. Yeah, this guy wants to abolish you.

GET FUCKING REAL.

[FSogol]

22. Unrec.

[whatthehey]

23. Some assumptions here

Here is the average tech salary according to Dice.



Here is the 2010 list of top H1B sponsors and their H1B salary averages

http://globalcareerstrategies.org/us-company-sponsorship/top-100-h1-b-sponsors/

Some volatility, but absolutely devoid of any noticeable bias towards underpaying, which is of course legally prohibited. Add in the costs of the visa itself and the usual green card support for successful employees and I doubt it's much cheaper.

I have helped interview and hire 3 people for jobs requiring intermediate level expertise in SAP APO configuration over the last few years. We were offering just over 6 figures for each with excellent benefits and relocation, obviously regardless of nationality. Of the 50 or so total CVs received that met the requirements, precisely two came from traditional Americans, the rest Indian with a smattering of Chinese. One turned out to be a total flake who knew less than I did as a user. We hired the other one, and two Indians. India has massive university programs dedicated to SAP configuration and ABAP programming. We have a few SAP training centers that spend more time on user training and are too generic in training on config, even if you pay the 10s of thousands they charge for full certification. For us at least it was not a question of saving money, it was a question of getting somebody who, for example, actually knew how to build a global DP/SNP process chain. Even dangling six figures in a moderate cost of living area found us two Americans who could and would. I have no doubt that other tech hirers face similar issues, but SAP seems to be a very good example. There are indeed American SAP experts, but they seem to prefer consulting companies than settled employment even at comparable pay rates. I have no idea why - hated consulting when I was doing it.

Funnily enough when you find examples of H1B employee abuse, the culprit is very often an Indian firm operating in the US rather than the Microsoft/IBM types.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. "Workers of the WORLD Unite!" Is still a damned good idea.

[leftstreet]

26. +1

[Stargazer99]

27. What a bunch of crap

Cheaper labor is a REPUBLICAN value..makes me wonder if you are one

[Pisces]

35. Your familiar negative posts about Obama and those nasty democrats. The record never changes.

[rbrnmw]

36. straight to trash this thread

Just wanted to unrec first

[Larkspur]

37. Yep, that's why I'm not a supporter of the Democrats current immigration reform

I lost my job to an H-1B visa contractor from India and I see this reform package as a way to help Wall Street increase it's ability to screw American Tech workers with more indentured servants from India, China and elsewhere.

[840high]

39. Sorry.

[OhioChick]

41. "I see this reform package as a way to help Wall Street increase it's ability to screw American..."

I wholeheartedly agree.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101695126

[Skidmore]

43. So all of these women and children seeking refuge on the border is just a

plot by Silicon Valley??? Crafty devils, aren't they?

[Puzzledtraveller]

45. say it ain't so!

Working for the 1%! No way!

[AngryAmish]

46. Why are all the silicon valley billionaires pushing for reform?

[treestar]

51. That law is of the 1950s

If a legal H-1B is here, why is it bad their spouse can work? The law from the 1950s assumed it was the husband who was the visa holder and the wife, of course, stated home to clean the house and take care of the kids. Letting their spouses work simply brings the law into the 21st century.

[JDPriestly]

53. K&R.

We do not need H1-B visas.