This tells you all you need to know about how F-ed up the Security State is.

[n2doc]

I'm An 86-Year-Old Retired Executive, And The FBI Tracked Me Down Because Of One Photo I Took
JAMES PRIGOFF, ACLU





Good morning. My name is James Prigoff. I am 86 years old and a retired senior corporate executive, having been president of a Levi Strauss division and previously the senior vice president of the Sara Lee Corporation in Chicago. I am also a professional photographer – in fact, I have been a photographer for most of my life. My specialty is photographing murals, graffiti art, and other community public art. I am the co-author of three books utilizing my photographs, one of which, Spraycan Art, has sold over 200,000 copies. My photographs appear in countless other publications and my photography has been exhibited at the Smithsonian in Washington and in many other galleries. I have lectured on photography and public art in museums, universities, and venues worldwide.

I have never had an experience like I had when attempting to photograph the "Rainbow Swash" outside Boston in 2004. Let me explain.

The Rainbow Swash is an iconic piece of public art near Boston painted on the circumference of a 140-foot high liquefied natural gas storage tank in 1971 and repainted in 1992 at an adjacent site. It is actually one of the largest copyrighted pieces of art in the world. The original artist was Korita Kent.

I went to Dorchester, Mass., to photograph it, but before I could take a picture, I was confronted by two security guards who came through their gate and told me I could not because the tank was on private property. I pointed out that I, being well outside the fenced area, was not on private property – but they insisted I leave. If one goes to Wikipedia there are number of excellent close-up shots for the entire world to see.

A few months later, I found a business card on the front door of my home in Sacramento from Agent A. Ayaz of the Joint Terrorism Task Force, asking me to call him. One of my neighbors, an elderly woman, told me that two men wearing suits had come to her door to ask her about me, her neighbor.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-fbi-tracked-me-down-because-of-one-photo-i-took-2014-7

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Smells like a terra-ist to me

Had easy access to Sara Lee pastries. Scary.

[cantbeserious]

2. In The Eyes Of The NSA - All Citizens Are Terrorists

eom

[villager]

27. I wonder what that makes the NSA apologists?

[indepat]

31. Certainly any citizen who questions any thing big brother does is regarded as the potential enemy and

hence treated as a suspected terraist.

[WillyT]

3. Jesus... K & R !!!

[PeoViejo]

4. DHS seems to have a lot of extra time on their hands

Perhaps it's time to trim their sails.

[Locrian]

5. terra terra terra

Create an atmosphere of "terror terror terror" and this is what happens when small minded little fascists (the security guards) get bored.

[JEB]

6. Now there is a budget that deserves to be cut.

[Babel_17]

7. Notice how he seems compelled to mention that he has an ok background?

It's like the American Muslim GOP guy that got targeted. He felt the need to mention that he was a regular guy. The implication being that all this monitoring causes people to keep mentally checking themselves to reaffirm their status as ok citizens.

Ok to whom?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025217369

"This is what happens in a surveillance state"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/07/what-a-muslim-american-said-to-defend-his-patriotism/374137/

Told by The Intercept that he was being spied upon, he agreed to an interview, in which he understandably felt impelled to defend his patriotism and character:



This is what happens in a surveillance state: To inoculate themselves against suspicion, people seem to legitimize the victimization of other, less favored groups, even though they're every bit as entitled to privacy and civil-liberties protections. They do so without intending any prejudice—I assume, for example, that if asked directly Gill would say that of course spying on parents who send their kids to Muslim schools is every bit as illegitimate. He only meant to suggest that it's irrational to spy on him given America's paranoid post-9/11 standards, and that people less mainstream than him must undeservedly have it even worse. His words would nevertheless feel like a blow to folks who fall into the groups that he implicitly characterized as more reasonable targets of surveillance.

Gill correctly perceives that we'll all know what he means when he invokes the characteristics he possesses that would seem to make him less suspicious. The fact that most people internalize these judgments to some degree illustrates how chilling effects work: Americans, especially those who belong to minority groups, formulate a sense of what speech and actions will cast suspicion on or away from them. The mere existence of surveillance thus changes behavior that is constitutionally protected and in many cases civically valuable. This is a significant cost that I've yet to see any national-security official acknowledge.



Check out this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025215669

[Pholus]

13. Very insightful!

Thanks!

[packman]

8. Sorry, I think they did the right thing

They filed a report and followed up on it. However, after discovering his intent and his background, the report should be either put in a dead file drawer or locked - never to be referenced. How Mr. Prigoff "feels" is not relevant to the issue, IMHO.

Cannot help but thinking if those Saudi's taking flight lessons a decade back had been reported and followed up on how modern day history would have been changed.

[Babel_17]

9. Well, I think we all agree that agents shouldn't waste valuable time on senseless missions

This is related to the main point of what happens when you build a security apparatus that's huge and unwieldy. You progressively become less safe. You drown in data, and false threats.

[Aerows]

10. Why do you think the "feelings" of an American

citizen that pays taxes to fund the folks that did all of this are meaningless?

[packman]

14. Simple - he has no say in it

Taxes or otherwise. The issue is a possible threat was perceived, a report was filed, action was taken. His feelings are not relevant to the possibility of a terrorist attack on a vulnerable target.

The agency and agents did what they had to do and should do. What concerns me is what is going to be done with the info gathered. He's now cleared, the incident needs to go away. That is the danger I feel.

[stevenleser]

16. Define meaningless. Is military training meaningless if wars don't happen? The Swiss and

Scandinavian countries still do military drills even though they are extremely loathe to participate in wars.

Are business continuity exercises meaningless if disasters don't ever befall the firms in question?

Is the "If you see something, say something" campaign in NYC meaningless?

Similar to the author of the piece, I was stopped by someone identifying himself as from DHS when taking photos of a public health facility here in NYC. I had just gotten a flu shot and was taking a photo of the place where I got my vaccination.

He asked why I was taking the photo and said I had to answer.

While annoying, I get it. What was innocuous could have appeared as someone casing the building. I identified myself, gave the person my card and explained what I was doing. Never heard anything back. That was three years ago or so now.

At the time, the building was on my way to/from my subway stop near work which I had to pass by twice each day. You bet I want them to find out if someone is casing the building. The life they save could be mine.

[Aerows]

18. I think you must admit

that I posed a very good question.

[stevenleser]

19. Absolutely your question is good and valid. And I am pretty angry that all of this is necessary.

But I do think it is necessary. All of it.

[Aerows]

22. Me too

We need to be having this conversation, despite the fact that it sucks all the way around.

[packman]

20. All questions are good

Only way both parties learn.

[Aerows]

23. Good.

A fruitful discussion comes when we ask questions.

[Demeter]

17. Ah, but they WERE

and somebody either dropped the ball, or was warned off or bought off.

Letting it happen on purpose. LIHOP.

[stevenleser]

21. I really think Bush and his ilk were stupid enough to miss it all. And they did.

Doesn't help when you nominate a National Security Adviser (Rice) with absolutely zero Middle East knowledge or experience at a time where our biggest national security threat was from that region.

She was busy worrying about Russia (because that is where her expertise was) who at the time was not a problem.

[Aerows]

24. I forget who said it

But they basically said that Condeleeza Rice could play the piano and it would catch on fire and the audience would be suddenly seized with an attack of mass vomiting. The woman had no business being in the position of advisor on Middle Eastern politics.

In some ways, I almost feel sorry for her. She was WAY in over her head. She chose to do it, though, and told the same lies everyone else in the Bush Administration did, so she's culpable.

[Babel_17]

29. It was the stupidity, combined with the arrogance*

An arrogant person can know to do the right thing, and an uninformed person can be exposed to the truth.

http://www.salon.com/2006/06/20/911pdb/

But the attitude: Bush to briefer: "All right. You've covered your ass, now.", permeated the administration. They'd create havoc to implement their version of reality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community

Reality-based community is an informal term in the United States. In the fall of 2004, the phrase "proud member of the reality-based community" was first used to suggest the commentator's opinions are based more on observation than on faith, assumption, or ideology. The term has been defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from judicious study of discernible reality." Some commentators have gone as far as to suggest that there is an overarching conflict in society between the reality-based community and the "faith-based community" as a whole. It can be seen as an example of political framing.

The source of the term is a quotation in an October 17, 2004, The New York Times Magazine article by writer Ron Suskind, quoting an unnamed aide to George W. Bush (later attributed to Karl Rove[1]):

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

*"Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you."

[villager]

28. Exactly right

Because of the perceived "benefits" of Letting It Happen...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Are we safe yet? K&R

[neeksgeek]

12. Cameras are suspicious now. It's that simple.

This really bothers me. I'm old enough (43) to remember when one of the things that was always held up as a difference between us and the Soviets was how hard it was to take pictures in the Soviet Union. Well, we've become them. This is very sad.

I teach photography for a community college. A couple times now, while wearing my employee name tag, on campus, I've been confronted by campus security demanding to know what I was photographing, and why I was photographing. Once a security guard even told me that he had seen me photograph him, and didn't I know that was illegal? I hadn't but anyway it's not. I very rudely told him I wouldn't photograph him if he paid me. I'm surprised I haven't gotten arrested, because I'm usually quite strident about my right to be there, doing what I'm doing. And I've instructed my students to inform me immediately if they ever get harassed while photographing (AKA "completing assignments&quot on campus.

I hope our country can back off of this culture of paranoia and fear.

[Octafish]

15. Guy's obviously a communist. I mean, terrorist.

His contempt for duly delegated authority was showing loud and clear.

[Babel_17]

25. Avoid looking suspicious and all is well

The government will periodically update as to what constitutes "suspicious". To play it safe, avoid all protests, except the good ones, by patriotic Americans. Do not stop to look at, or photograph, the security state in action. Do not post, or have recorded, comments that give aid or comfort to "the enemy". (to be defined at a later date)

It's easier than it sounds! Just think good thoughts, and your actions will follow.

"That's real good, whatever it is." That sums up how we should view whatever it is the NSA has brought to life.

[Savannahmann]

26. Because of this elderly man we see the first hand result

I'm sure the defenders of the faith will be along shortly to tell us how all of this is needed to protect us, or something.

Department of Homeland Insecurity has probably deployed the helicopters, tanks, and swat teams to make sure this man and his camera can't take photographs anymore. Because let's face it, if the Terrorists figure out where that tank is, we've had it.

Oh good Lord. Google Maps has it. I found it without any real effort! I mean, it's not blurred out as something vital to security should be!

How lax can security be if anyone on the internet can find the exact location of this lynchpin of our doom?

See it for yourself from the Google Street View car, which I am starting to think is really a way for the enemies of the State to gather information on the exact location of things. Do you realize what this means? THEY (whoever they are) KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THIS TANK IS! I mean, they can find it. I want a five hundred million dollar program right now to build a screen showing a landscape of that part of the city with the tank edited out constructed alongside the road this instant.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.303567,-71.047878,3a,75y,135.79h,90.6t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sgyv2aOBdICcvydxh3wI_Zg!2e0

Perhaps we should ban all GPS and mapping programs. I mean, we are either going to have to ban the maps and gps, or the Department of Homeland Insecurity. One of them has to go.

Nobody has a lick of sense. Not the rent a cops, not the Department of Homeland Insecurity, not a single person in the AntiTerrorism taskforce. Nobody.

[woo me with science]

30. K&R. We are the enemy.

[woo me with science]

32. kick