Let's put the dictionary aside for a moment - racial animosity poll.

[el_bryanto]

Agree or disagree - there is a significant qualitative difference between experiencing racial animosity as a white person and experiencing racial animosity as a black person?

Bryant

9 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Totally Agree
	8 (89%)
	Somewhat Agree
	0 (0%)
	Neither Agree nor Disagree
	0 (0%)
	Somewhat Disagree
	1 (11%)
	Totally Disagree
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[riqster]

1. Oh hellz yeah. I experienced it while working in Mexico.

All I had to do was fly back to Cleveland, and it was gone. White folk have it a lot easier in this respect.

[Scuba]

3. Whites blamed for slavery? How fucked up is that?

[el_bryanto]

4. Welcome to DU - I hope you enjoy your stay here.

Although I suspect you won't.

Hey - just out of curiousity - why do you suppose whites are blamed for slavery? Do you suppose it's because they were the ones owning slaves?

Bryant

[el_bryanto]

7. You see I have a degree in history

So while I am aware that slavery as an institution has existed since the beginning of time - owning a specific race and declaring that race to be inferior, as we white Americans did, was a fairly specific "innovation." We didn't just take slaves, we denigrated a whole race to do it.

The fact that most whites didn't own slaves, or that a few blacks and mulattos owned slaves is immaterial (a point I'm sure you would get around to) - southern slavery declared that blacks were an inferior race in order to justify their ownership of other human beans - and 200 years later we see the fruits of that. Pretty sour fruits.

I hope you don't get kicked off too quickly.

Bryant

[el_bryanto]

11. Most whites were brought up in a culture that taught that black people were inferior

And they were taught black people were inferior because that was necessary to prop up a system in which the children of slaves were naturally slaves. Deserved to be slaves.

Present your peer reviewed work that suggests that racial slavery was common elsewhere, if you have any. I'm not talking about fringe white-supremist websites - i'm talking about actual history from actual historians.

But in retrospect, you really aren't very good at this - you know what you might try debating - a sack of hammers. Do you have a sack of hammers? I think you might find arguing with a sack of hammers more enjoyable than coming here. It would be a more even match.

Bryant

[BainsBane]

15. "White" and "black" itself was a European/American invention

that emerged in the context of the institution of slavery. Slavery as a racial institution was absolutely something that was unique to the Americas, race was not the basis for slavery prior to the transatlantic trade. You are simply wrong, factually wrong. Your white washing of history, literally, is a travesty.

[JustAnotherGen]

26. Bantus are not found in Rwanda

Hutus/Tutstis/Twa are Rwandan.


It simply wouldn't have happened in your example.

[BainsBane]

30. It was the institution

and the nature of that enslavement that was worse. This is not a point of dispute among historians. It is universally agreed on.

[moriah]

44. Eh, some could say the Egyptians enslaved the Jews based on race....

.... but if you go by the Bible, they had help freeing themselves from servitude.

Is it any wonder that many slaves in America, when exposed to Christianity, naturally identified with those stories and placed their hope in God? "Go Down, Moses", anyone?

[BainsBane]

46. By religion

The notion of Jews as a distinct race emerged in the late 1700s. Race as we think of it today was invented by social scientists as those disciplines were emerging.

Prior to some years into the colonization of the Americas, slavery of non-Christians was seen as just, as Muslims enslaved non-Muslims. But as slaves converted to Christianity, that justification came under attack. Racism gradually emerged to replace it.

There is an extensive and excellent literature on religion in the slave quarters. On one hand, it was used as a justification for slavery and form of social control, but as you note it also provided an ideology of empowerment. The rebel Nat Turner said God told him to lead his rebellion in Virginia, while in 1835 the Northeast of Brazil, Muslim slaves and freedmen led a rebellion to overturn Brazilian rule and establish a caliphate.

[BainsBane]

10. And I have a PhD in history

with a research field in slavery. The institution of slavery as practiced before the transatlantic slave trade was markedly different. Slavery as it developed in the Americas was far more brutal and total of an institution than what preceded it. Slavery in the Americas developed as a racial institution, with racism emerging in order to justify it.

Go to your public library and check out the PBS Series Africans in the Americas and watch the episode about the beginnings of slavery in Virginia. That will show you quite clearly how whites, even those who did not own slaves, benefited from slavery. Slavery, in fact, was essential to ideas of liberty and opportunity for whites in America.

[JustAnotherGen]

14. Alerted to MIRT

Just served on jury - definitely a malicious intruder.

[BainsBane]

16. No doubt about it.

[JustAnotherGen]

17. I'd love to know who

This juror was -

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This doesn't qualify as over the top. I'm not reading other posts. Each post is its own thing. If they're bad posts alert on them



Qualify as over the top? Maybe not - but it's obvious the mad ravings of a David Duke fanboy. Cray Craaaaaaaaaaay!

[BainsBane]

18. Alert on it

Seriously. They've PPR'd jurors for that kind of thing.

[el_bryanto]

21. Hey - you sound a lot like another guy who was around here

I don't hate white males, by the way. I am one, for one thing.

Do you have any peer reviewed sources to support your theory? Or just white supremacist neo-confederate bullshit?

Bryant

[JustAnotherGen]

25. SHE point blank

Called you a racist.

[el_bryanto]

27. The wind rustles the grass but does not trouble the oak. nt

[freshwest]

68. Beautiful!

[el_bryanto]

34. Have you considered the possibility that you are completely wrong and should stop being an idiot?

I haven't really seen that about BainsBane, although we've had a run in or two.

Bryant

[BainsBane]

63. Have we?

Geez. I've probably had a run in with everyone at some point. Me and my big mouth.

[JustAnotherGen]

36. Why would you say that

I've never gotten that BainsBane hates ANYONE. That's not realistic

C'moooooooon - who are ya really? We want to know.

Folks - is this that Library Girl person I see posted about?

[Agschmid]

45. Naw... not LG something else.

[BainsBane]

22. You're back, but not for long.

[JustAnotherGen]

29. I'm actually having a lot of

Fun with this woman. Let her stay for a minute or two!

[BainsBane]

32. How do you know she is female?

[JustAnotherGen]

35. Just going by the name Antoin -

I have a friend that signs things like that and it's short for Antoinette.

[BainsBane]

39. No, Antoine is a male name

and I get a very heavy vibe of privilege off him.

[JustAnotherGen]

42. He's got another one coming

Just found out I'm not the only alerted - 6-1 to hide on another alert.

Soon to be gone forever and ever -

Or until he makes another account and starts more trouble.

[Agschmid]

57. Just taking out the trash.

[JustAnotherGen]

38. Based upon the comment

Made about you upthread - I'm now convinced this is an MRA type so I'm sticking with female/woman because to those people that's the worst thing a person can be.

[BainsBane]

40. about hating white men?

Or was there another I missed? Sounds like that same guy from Discussionist who was put on leave for saying rape is all the fault of black men.

[BainsBane]

43. Another 6-1 jury verdict

and that was on that really insulting post. I wasn't the first alerter.

[JustAnotherGen]

24. I just told you

To go to discussionist. So what do you do - you make ANOTHER account after JUST getting the boot and here you go again.

This isn't your site - go to Discussionist or Free Republic

[JustAnotherGen]

53. You - again?

[URL=http://gifsoup.com/view/19080/wtf.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://gifsoup.com]GIFSoup[/URL]

[BainsBane]

28. Read American Slavery, American Freedom by Edmund Morgan

A prominent historian and white male himself disagrees with you, as does every educated person on the planet.

[JaneyVee]

8. Here:

[JustAnotherGen]

12. Your time here is limited

I just served on a jury where all four of your posts were highlighted. You might fit in better at Discussionist.

[BainsBane]

19. There was one that actually got five hides there

for being too racist. Think on that. Too racist for Discussionist. The really scary part was he claimed to come from DU.

[Eleanors38]

33. Well, cleared that up.

[el_bryanto]

41. Yes - i have to admit - in one way I'm annoyed at the distraction

Provided by this troll - because yesterday there was a significant discussion on the use of the term racism. What I am curious about is do people disagree with the idea expressed or do they simply simply not like the shifting meaning of the word.

Bryant

[Eleanors38]

47. Good way to delineate what issue there is. I just

don't bother getting into these discussions about race here in D.U. The topic is a hare-trigger weapon to slap down others. Maybe a better question is this: Can we work with even racists?

[bigtree]

48. I would think it would depend on how you 'experienced' it

. . . but I'm inclined to believe that we all can get hurt or affected badly by racism of any expression. Some injury isn't readily apparent, and you almost never see the full depth of someones reaction; most often it's masked by the recipient to protect them from further harm; covered up with a laugh or summarily forgiven. You almost never see the full impact of slurs, for instance, because of those types of practiced and reflexive defenses.

[el_bryanto]

50. It's a fair point that each experience of racial animosity is different - and it's certainly

possible for an individual white experience with it to be pretty terrible. I take your point there (assuming I understood it correctly).

Bryant

[bigtree]

52. yes, you understood my point

. . . so many of our expressions can be hurtful; race is but one of the things folks use to draw lines of distinction between individuals.

[DrewFlorida]

54. I agree 100% and once we can eliminate the systemic racism, then we can work toward....

enjoying a colorblind society as envisioned by Dr. King.

I believe it is every man's/woman's individual job to root out their own personal thoughts of inequality toward others, yet it is every man's/woman's collective job to find and eliminate systemic racism designed by hateful people to strip others of their equal rights.

[Smarmie Doofus]

56. I have a question:

What is the purpose of the "show user names" button?

Wouldn't the employment of that feature tend to skew the results?

As well as promote a sort of Stalinist groupthink on the subject?

[el_bryanto]

58. Well I suspect it's because people are interested in how people vote.

I don't always vote in my own polls.

Bryant

[gollygee]

59. That sounds like a question for ATA

Stalinist Groupthink? Sounds a bit over the top.

[freshwest]

69. Typically used by the banned. It's a RW label for liberals, progressives, Democrats, etc.

[Ms. Toad]

60. The admins have explained that people were making a sport out of

voting outrageously, and then calling out the outrageous votes in the poll and generally stirring the pot.

[el_bryanto]

61. Thanks for that history - I didn't know that but it makes sense. nt

[Nye Bevan]

66. What is the purpose of attaching user names to posts?

It would be possible for all OPs and/or replies to be anonymous. (It is interesting to speculate how this would change the dynamics). I guess the point is that a vote in a poll is functionally similar to a reply to the OP, so to be consistent it should not be anonymous.

[LadyHawkAZ]

62. Interesting phrasing

Are we talking just animosity as in expressed feelings and the recipient's perception, or about those feelings as translated into actions? Because that will change my answer and I feel like there's some context I'm missing here.

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. Funny ...

I was preparing a post in support of a "Totally Agree" vote; when, just before I clicked "Reply", I re-read the question and scrapped my initial vote and voted "Totally Disagree."

When facing racial animosity, the feeling of hurt doesn't differ, based on the race of the offended ... it is personal, and it can't help but hurt.

Now that said ... the white person's hurt might be rooted in the, largely, unexperienced/unexpectedness of the act; whereas, a Black person's hurt comes from the (near constant) confirmation that nothing is changing, and the despair that it might never change.

[el_bryanto]

65. Fair enough - i can see where you are coming from

How would you word it though? The idea I'm trying to get across is that latter one - the idea that when experience bigotry as a black person it's different than as a white person, because the power structure is set up to protect whites, but does a poor job of protecting blacks.

Bryant

[1StrongBlackMan]

67. Word it just that way ...

bigotry experienced as a black person is qualitatively different than that experienced as a white person, because the power structure is set up to protect whites, but does a poor job of protecting blacks.

Agree or Disagree?

I'll let this rest for a moment before I note the importance of your question, in whichever form.

(BTW, I'm liking that you get it ... But more, that you are willing to engage it!)

[yuiyoshida]

70. I wonder why it didn't cover

all Minorities.. All of us.