So I'm curious - what makes a fetus so much more important than an immigrant child?

[LynneSin]

Why are right wing people so adamant on saving fetuses, which btw even those fetuses from immigrants here in the USA but have absolutely no problem treating these immigrant children trying to come to safety here in the USA like total shit.

Did I miss that bible verse where Jesus said "Blessed are the children but only those in the fetus form"?

[JustAnotherGen]

1. First

Even though they give 'lip service' to nonsense about abortion and 'black genocide' - it's just that. . . lip service.

Second - Immigrant children from Central America are not their 'ideal'.

The ideal is a white christian child to backfill the white population that is targeted to be a minority in 2042.

So yep - in their miserable angry little minds a white fetus is more important than a living breathing brown child.

That fetus gets extra points if it's male.

[Louisiana1976]

4. So they're actually both racist and sexist.

[alsame]

12. Third - non-white children

tend to vote for Democrats when they grow up.

[COLGATE4]

2. A fetus is important to some only insomuch as it is perceived

by anti-choicers as punishment for the woman having engaged in shameful sexual activities. If somehow this punishment is ever threatened, it must not be. Denying choice is the way to achieve this end.

[stevenleser]

3. Simple answer: "Total lack of perspective" nt

[otohara]

5. Gun Rights Trump Dead Children

in their world.
it's the old "love the fetus, hate the child" mentality.

[WinkyDink]

6. An immigrant child doesn't come with a woman to control.

[cyberswede]

19. +1

[oldandhappy]

7. color of skin

[LynneSin]

14. I pass by the Planned Parenthood in downtown Wilmington where they probably get many many minorities

And I still see them out there protesting.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. how dare you imply that misogyny and miseducation drives the anti-choice movement?

and not the love of children.

how could you ???

[LynneSin]

15. hey you!

I haven't seen you in ages! I'll need to roadtrip up to NYC sometime soon. How was the trip to India?

[sunnystarr]

9. They are totally disconnected from humanity. (nt)

[Triana]

10. In the minds of the American Taliban, fetus is attached to female (which is to be controlled)

And controlling women is more important than caring for/educating/feeding/saving children.

Twisted? Yep.

[Zorra]

11. +1 nt

[polichick]

13. Neither is about children - it's always about protecting...

what they see as theirs. Protecting their power. Protecting their lifestyle. Protecting their special status. It always comes down to this - regardless of issue. Everything is a zero-sum game.

[lonestarnot]

25. Nails it.

[OriginalGeek]

16. Fetuses only mooch off the mother

Immigrant kids mooch off all of them. The lesser of two moochers and all that.

DEY TUK ERR JERBS!

[msanthrope]

17. Because a fetus is without sin, and as close to their non-existent god as they are going to get.

Seriously---prolifers attach a mysticism to the fetus as innocent and godlike and perfect. But live children are dirty. That's why you protect the former and don't care about the latter.

[one_voice]

18. It has to do with keeping the country...

a certain, uh, shade.

[badtoworse]

20. That is a nice strawman

The real issue is that we don't have enough resources to adequately care for poor children who are legal residents. The illegal immigrants are taking resources that are needed by those kids.

How would you explain spending billions on illegals to a Detroit resident whose water is being shut off because he can't afford to pay the bill?

[LynneSin]

21. But you are missing the point

Everyday thousands of conservatives line up outside of their local Planned Parenthood to shout down women who might be heading in there to possibly get an abortions. Millions of tax dollars are being spent each year to help lobby and enact legislation which allows a state government to make it even harder and harder for women to make their own choice in regards to their body.

It's those same people who are now lining up at our borders treating these children trying to cross the border like they are dirt and scum.

I understand the concerns about what is happening in Detroit but I do not think that has anything to do with what my post is about.

My post is about one group of people who treat a clump of cells with better respect and dignity than a real child. If anything that should anger you too because those are children in Detroit who are being treated just as badly as those immigrant children. And it's the same right-wing scum that is doing this to everyone.

[badtoworse]

22. I see them as entirely different issues.

You're trying to make an equivalence that just is not there.

[LynneSin]

24. Really? You seem to be the only one who isn't seeing it

Right-wing crazies including the Tea Party love to stand outside and yell at women who enter birth control clinics.

They also seem to want to stand at the border and yell at immigrant children trying to cross the border.

One instance they are trying to save a fetus the other is a child.

If you don't see how these people seem to go ape-shit crazy trying to save a clump of fetus cells and yet have no problem taking a giant crap on children who have been born but in the situation where they are something the right-wing doesn't like - like immigrants crossing the border or even children wanting fresh drinking water in Detroit then well I give up.

There is A HUGE deal here about the hypocrisy of the right-wing in regards to children

Matthew 19:14 says

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

Jesus didn't say fetuses or just the white children of wealthy families. He said little children. Yet it seems for the right-wing they like to pick and choose which children they will help and which ones they will kick in the face.

I think this hypocrisy needs to be pressed more by progressives out there and even by us (which for the most part - most of us here at DU get it)

[badtoworse]

32. There are two unrelated issues that come into play here

The right wing crazies at the clinics are focused on this issue: When does a child, born or unborn, acquire its right to life? That a child acquires a right to life at some point is indisputable. Some would argue that it occurs at the moment of conception; while others would argue that a child's right to life starts when it is out of the mother's uterus and the umbilical cord is cut. I believe most people would consider both of these positions to be extreme and would say that the right to life begins at some point in between those two events. I also believe that most people would agree that once that clump of fetus cells has acquired its right to life, it is a child and killing that child is infanticide.

We don't need to agree on when the right to life is acquired, but it's essential to acknowledge that a bona fide disagreement does exist. Tactics aside, your disagreement with the right wing crazies is fundamentally about when that event occurs. You obviously care about children, so I expect that if you believed (as they do) that they were being killed, you would be fighting to try and stop it as well.

The question of what to do about children entering the country illegally is an entirely different matter. The issue of when a child acquires its right to life has no bearing on the amount of resources we have available to care for children. The important point is that those resources are finite. Many children who are here legally aren't receiving adequate care now because communities don't have the money for schools, meals, teachers, health care, special needs, etc. What happens to those kids when already scarce resources are further diluted to accommodate the illegals? Is that fair to the parents of those kids who are bearing the load in the form of taxes?

The reality is that the Central American governments have failed to care for their own kids and those governments are responsible for the condition the immigrant children are in. The US simply does not have unlimited resources and can't accommodate an unlimited influx of children without jeopardizing the welfare of our own kids who are here legally. I'm sorry, but I don't have a solution for that; do you?

[LynneSin]

33. And once again you show you do NOT understand the reasonings for my posts

Maybe you should have started your own thread since you seem to want to take this off to a tangaent somewhere who knows.

I'm not talking about what we should be doing for these children. The least that we can do for those kids from Central America who are in a very dire situation is make sure they have some sort of comfort even if we send them back to Central America.

What we shouldn't do is treat them like dirt, which is what the right-wing is doing. Not just with these kids from Central America but any child in his country who comes from a background that isn't wealthy.

What we have are right-wing mouthpieces out there treating these children from Central America like they are the scum of the earth. They treat children here like scum of the earth too. But regardless of the background of the mother-to-be, they put fetuses on a pedestal. Like somehow if these conservative idiots can somehow manage to save a few fetuses then their path to heaven is set it stone. Other children - doesn't matter. Take away these kids's parents (and I mean all kids not the Central America kids) ability to have a decent paying job, or afford safe housing or provide enough food on the table. Take away that child's chance for a decent education and the chance to be successful in their own rights. If you don't see that then I feel sorry for you. This thread was never about whether or not we should be takiing in those kids from Central America - this is about the hypocricy of right wing fundamentalists who put more effort into saving a clump of cells over that of children who are here on earth, living, breathing, existing.

As for the kids from Central America, I have no clue what to do - but least we can do is for now, while they are in the country is to provide a safe shelter and food until we determine what our next course of action is. My guess is that most will end up being sent home, but I would not be surprised if there are people in this country who would be willing to adopt some of these kids and give them a decent home.

[badtoworse]

34. Pulling abortion into your post was not helpful and muddied the water.

I think you should have focused only on how we treat all children. I agree with you that we should do a much better job, but I don't see the issue in the same black and white terms that you do. Let's leave it at that.

[LynneSin]

35. It only muddled your water because you are trying to do something different with the argument

My arguement was simple so not sure how you missed it

Fundie, right-wing christians will bend over backwards to prevent a fetus from dying but will spit in the eye of a child who happens to be not from a wealthy white family.

Sorry you have some other idea about this arguement. Perhaps you should have started your own thread instead of hijacking this one and make it into a completely different argument

[lonestarnot]

26. Same as warmongers at the women's clinics. They don't give a rat's ass about those kids after

they're born, but for cannon fodder for their next war. Enough resources why? Some of the same sucking up everything, and have you apparently brainwashed into believing there's not enough to go around. Greedy fucking rich are to blame for shutting off the poor people's water in Detroit. Please get a fucking clue.

[frogmarch]

23. The only fetuses they care about are

Last edited Tue Jul 15, 2014, 06:43 PM - Edit history (1)

white Christian Murican fetuses because once born, they'll become white Christian Murican teabaggers.

Simple as that.

[Beausoir]

27. Nothing. They are all children.

[liberalmuse]

28. A fetus isn't a person...

so certain people tend to picture an unborn potential human as a white, middle class or upper middle class child, preferably male. They idealize the fetus much like they idealize their invisible god, speaking of which, god forbid the ever so sacred fetus that they worship eventually pops out with some melanin, or as poor or non-Christian or worse, both. They don't actually even care about children or their god - it's all about them. If they really cared about god and their religion, they wouldn't be the biggest assholes on the planet. If they really cared about children, they wouldn't continually vote to block using funds from the public treasury to feed, shelter and clothe them. You don't see them lining up at Child Services to help a real child, do you? Instead, they cheer on war that ultimately decimates children in other countries. Fetus-worshippers are hypocrites worthy of the utmost contempt. They like to taunt pregnant women because it makes them feel superior.

[WCLinolVir]

29. Along with projection, all their insecurities projected onto this powerless zygote/fetus, which must

be saved, they also have a political tool that promotes them as saviors, and they view their agenda, which serves their interests, as bullet proof, so to speak. It does exert control over women/society, who are not their allies politically. An immigrant child couldn't possibly achieve all of that for them.

[catbyte]

30. Because "protecting" that "miracle" clump of cells costs them NOTHING, financially or

emotionally & lets them feel all superior & self-rightous. Plus they have the added bonus of control over us hussies. Actual children might force them to part with their precious dollars and with immigrant children, there are more unsavory brown-skinned kids to look at. It's absolutely pathetic & despicable.

[LynneSin]

36. actually 'protecting that miracle' of cells is a massive fundraiser for them

Which is why I doubt any GOP politician no matter how far to the right and how religious they are would ever want RoeVWade totally overturned and abortion outlawed. Protecting the fetus is a huge cash cow for these people!

[JI7]

31. it's not about the fetus but control

[haele]

37. Because it's easier to be against something than work for something.

It's easier to judge, say you're standing up for something while pointing out "an evil" to get brownie points, and leave any further responsibility for someone else to clean up.

It's all about being "holier than thou". And it's easy, since all you have to do is focus on your tiny little God in your head that says that only evil does what you don't do or believes what you don't believe - and since keeping women from access to anything that might get rid of "life" is all that is needed to get you good with that petulant, fearful, tight-assed voice in your head, you don't have to take care of any children of sin, or the families of those children that deserve what they get from sinning.

It's all about the right wing-nut's personal relation with whatever voice in their heads rewards them with feelings of being "good" or powerful. Expressing Hate within a group for acceptance can be as much a visceral pleasure as being part of a community effort to do something constructive, like spending a weekend building a park and playground in a blighted area.

The protesters are never concerned about Life as a whole, or the entire World that exists outside their personal acceptance. Their world, their morality and ultimately, their God exists wholly between their ears.

Haele