Gotta be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. From a "Democrat" no less.

[Fuddnik]

"Pension Smoothing"?

Is this what it's come down to? Allow companies that underfund their pension plans already, to underfund them some more to get a higher tax, that they don't pay anyway, to refurbish our roads, bridges, and other infrastructure.

Does The Asylum have a waiting list? Are we that far gone?

Raise the fucking gas tax already! Cut out ALL subsides to the oil companies, and throw it into the highway fund!

Is the Congress so dysfunctional we have to resort to hokum like this?

Fuck it all.

In fact I'm going to take two Fukitol tablets, go to the golf course and drink heavily for the rest of the day.

Fuck it ALL.

[YarnAddict]

1. Raising the gas tax

would disproportionatelly negatively impact the poor and middle class, many of whom NEED to buy gas to get to work, to get their children to school, etc. there are much better answers.

[GeorgeGist]

7. Feel free to present your better answers.

Cause otherwise you might be accused of kicking the can down the road.

[YarnAddict]

15. If I had all the answers

I'd run for office myself.

I don't know what would be the best way to pay for it. Maybe that tax on financial transactions we're always talking about???

[ashling]

51. We could invade Iraq

no, wait - we already tried that

maybe Iran ... yeah! Let's invade Iran

no, wait ...

[sabrina 1]

92. Cut the Pentagon budget in half, that would take care of everything that needs taking care of

forever. End our current warmongering foreign policies and we won't need to raise any taxes.

[packman]

16. How about a higher tax levy on ALL gas luxury items

A graduated gas-usage tax- or levy- on any car, boat, engine-ANYTHING that consumes gas or a fossil fuel . The more expensive the item, the higher the levy. If it's a less expensive item, the lower the tax. Hell, even make it a yearly fee. You buy a Ford eco-car you pay little or nothing, you buy a 8 cyl. power status car or a pig of a bike, you pay more per year.

[7962]

28. That Ford eco-car is still wearing on the roads and bridges though.

Nobody rides for free.

[freebrew]

57. We already pay a yearly fee...

when we buy license plates and insurance and here, personal property tax. The assholes in Jeff City want a sales tax to pay for road repair after they just gave the rich a huge tax break. I'm sure when the roads are fixed they'll sell them to be made into toll roads.

Quit giving huge tax breaks to the oil industry, scrap the F-35 program and start taxing the rich stockholders like normal working stiffs and the problem would be solved.

A Ford Eco-car or a Toyota Prius doesn't wear out the roads like the 80' long, 80,000 lb., 80 mph trucks. Weather is the real culprit, especially in states with harsh winters.

[Orsino]

35. Tax wealth at a higher rate than wages.

Realize that the very, very wealthy have the most wealth, and tax theirs most heavily. When current tax rates don't suffice, hit up the wealthy for some change before you touch working families. And don't assume that all highway infrastructure must be paid for by gasoline taxes.

It's not complicated, unless you ask one of the wealthy.

[laundry_queen]

43. ^^ this. nt

[nomorenomore08]

79. +2

[OneCrazyDiamond]

47. Tax based on annual miles driven instead.

This would cover gas, diesel, hybrid, and full electric.

Even works when the first 3 are no longer needed.

I don't know if we should include biking and walking/running, but the highways would be better funded if we taxed miles instead of the the dinosaur juice that we shouldn't even be using anymore.

[airplaneman]

58. I don't like this one.

Its too close to the idea of user tax. Tax those that need it the most a l lot instead of everyone a little bit. As this idea takes hold you get taxed every time you cross a bridge for example. Well those that use the national parks should pay 50 times what they are now as they are the users and that is the actual cost of their presence. etc.
Just my feeling nothing personal.
-Airplane

[Taitertots]

53. Progressive marginal income taxation

Let's stop concocting schemes to shift the tax burden onto the poor/middle class

[Enthusiast]

66. PLUS ONE!

[bvar22]

54. This guy had the right answers,

and a more Television Friendly version could WIN in any state in the country:


Share the Wealth

[grahamhgreen]

64. Easy. tax the wealthiest hoarders. cut big war budget.

[Fuddnik]

12. I think I would rather pay an extra dollar per fill-up.

Than spend hundreds on new ball joint replacements, shocks, rims, etc.

Or have the peace of mind knowing that when I drive across a bridge, it's not going to collapse.

We've been yapping about infrastructure repair for about 15-20 years now. Let's do it. But, don't use smoke and mirrors to rob retirees to do it.

Just pay for it already. Oil companies get more money in subsidies than They're planning on spending to top off the Highway trust fund.

[YarnAddict]

14. What would that $1/fill mean to a single mom

working at McDonald's? (And public transportation isn't available to everyone.)

[neeksgeek]

19. About public transportation...

Speaking from experience, commuting to a retail job (which paid $8.20 an hour) several years ago:

Going by car: 15 minutes, and perhaps a gallon of gas, per round trip.

By bus? 1 solid hour, if you don't miss your transfer that is; then cross a dangerous six-lane highway on foot, where there are NO sidewalks, NO crosswalks, and NO walk signs, and the average driver sees pedestrians as little more than obstacles.

Then doing it all again, in reverse, often at 10pm, to get home by 11pm or so. And hoping nobody decides to mug you.

A car is a necessity in most American cities, even those with extensive public transportation. I bought a car for $500 from a colleague at the start of this year. It's not the most economical but it works. Having a car is worth the expense. Increasing those expenses is less than helpful. I'm al for a tax increase, but NOT on the people who can least afford it.

[YarnAddict]

23. Absolutely!! n/t

[mwooldri]

89. Not just in America.

Plenty of places around the world where having a car is better than using public transportation. My days of retail used to involve two bus rides and two train rides. If I got lucky, I could be at work in under an hour. Most of the time it took two hours because one train I got usually ran late (still does afaik) and I miss the connection to the second one and have to wait upwards of 40 minutes for the next one. In the end the commute made a fun job quite unattractive. If I knew how to drive and I had a car, the trip would have taken 37 minutes. This was England btw. Similar stories like ours can be found worldwide.

[mbperrin]

25. If a dollar a week is total disaster, then

mom needs public assistance, anyway. The lack of decent roads to get to work is no improvement over public transportation.

We're actually converting paved roads back to gravel here in Texas, because even though the economy is booming, taxes haven't changed while the population has doubled, doubling the number of roads needed. We have daily road closings here due to pavement coming up in big chunks and being thrown through windshields by large oilfield trucks.

We need money for roads and maintenance, and it needs to be related to usage of roads, not robbing retirees,

[YarnAddict]

26. Who says it's only $1/week

could be $2 or $3. Anyway, I thought we were all on the same page, as far as increasing the tax burden on the poor and middle class? A gas tax is regressive. There are better ways than either a gas tax or a retirement fun tax to deal with crappy roads.

[mbperrin]

81. If it's a dollar a tank, then $3 would be three tanks of gas a week to get to

McDonald's?? Or at 20 gallons a tank and $3.55 a gallon, $213 per week for gas? 40 hours at $7.25 per hour minimum wage is right at $300 a week before deductions, net about $240 a week. That leaves $27 for everything else, rent, food, and all, so that job is not worth having with using 3 tanks a week. Let's be realistic, please.

Good roads are worth $3 a week to minimum wage workers. Crappy roads beat up cars and cost repair money which is far more than $3, no matter what, even a flat tire.

Gas tax is related to usage of the roads, and those big vehicles with poor mileage being driven by the middle or upper class pay a goodly bit of tax, and they can stand more. Oil field machinery in specific can certainly pay more, and their huge overload sizes really chew up the highways.

Any tax besides an income tax is regressive, but there are degrees of it. Check out the 8.25% sales tax on nearly everything if you want to find some equity for your minimum wage mom. She's spending about 84 cents of her $7.25 just for sales tax. That would be the bigger problem to me.

Certainly entitled to your opinion and to express it.

[4Q2u2]

29. Single Dad of 4

I am struggling to make ends meet and I tried for assistance. I made $122.00 too much a month to qualify. This will push me further to the edge. Not to mention the price of food is out of control and this will be passed on to consumers because the growers shipping cost will rise dramatically.
How about eliminating the Cap on SSN taxation. It will make the system more fair and equitable with everyone paying the same percentage. Instead of the rich pay a paltry percentage of their income.
Increase tax rate on the top income rates. You know the "job creators" because if their actions are true. Then they create the greatest usage of the roads.

[Fuddnik]

33. They're talking about company funded pensions.

Back in the '80s and '90s, stocks were taking off, and Congress let companies underfund their pension plans because they were getting a greater return than anticipated.When the dot.com bubble blew, they kept underfunding the pensions.

They never returned to the old formula. When the executives at my company (LTV Steal) finished looting the fund, and filed bankruptcy, and turned the pensions over to the PBGC, I wound up getting $1000 per month less than I was supposed to. Not to mention no healthcare benefits they were supposed to provide.

[LuvNewcastle]

36. I hear you.

It ain't easy to get public assistance. You basically have to be starving to get it. On the edge of starving isn't close enough. So many people don't realize how hard it is to get help these days. It makes you feel like a person on the ledge of a high building, and everyone on the ground is yelling, "Jump, jump." There's so much sympathy out there for the poor these days.

[mbperrin]

82. I have a difficult time in my classroom trying to convince my senior students that

having a baby immediately and applying for benefits is not going to go well. Even drawing the max is a crummy level of living, and the truth is, very few qualify at that level. Relatively few qualify at all.

But they lap up that crap on Fox talking about all the free houses, cars, phones, money, college, healthcare, and EBT cards for groceries that even illegals can get, and it's like sweeping the beach with a small broom. After all, Fox is national TV, and I'm just a high school teacher. What could I know?

So I teach microentrepreneurship as at least a bridge to more income.

[upaloopa]

34. What does fucking with pensions do?

At least you can make decisions about buying gas. Take away someone's retirement and they have no say it it at all.

[YarnAddict]

38. Some people can't make decision about

buying gas. They HAVE to, if they want to keep their low-paying service job. And most of them will never have a pension anyway.

I'm not saying screwing with the pensions is a good idea. I just think that increasing the gas tax is the wrong way to go about solving the problem.

[ErikJ]

46. Gas tax has been 18 cents a gallon over past 30 years.

It should be a % of gas prices not fixed rate. 18 cents/ gal means for a 20 gal fillup only $3.60. In Europe I think they pay at least $3.60 tax per gallon.
Low gas tax encourages more driving and less mass transit. More gas consumption, higher oil prices and more CO2 and more suburban living and sprawl which is the REAL root of the problem.
I

[airplaneman]

60. Bingo

I have believed for the last 30 years that 18 cents was ridiculously low and should have been a percentage.
-Airplane

[Swede Atlanta]

71. I understand and agree raising the gas tax would disproportionately affect the poor and middle class

but today's poor and middle class are paying much less in gasoline tax than the same class of persons 20 years ago given inflation.

I see two alternatives neither of which are ideal

1. Charge a tax based on miles driven in a year. The problem with that is only the state assessing the tax, such as when license tags are renewed, that generates revenue. For states that have a large amount of through traffic such as Georgia with trucks and persons driving both N-S and E-W, we don't capture that revenue to pay for wear and tear on our roads.

2. Take the billions we give away to the oil and gas companies and put it in the highway trust fund as well tax these guys enough to generate money that would go, not to the general fund, but to the highway trust fund.

Thoughts?

[sulphurdunn]

75. I don't think allowing

business to continue underfunding pensions was a plan designed to consider the poor.

[YarnAddict]

80. Actually,

I think the plan was to protect the companies from takeovers. Back in the 70's/80's, pension plans were seriously OVERfunded, and corporate raiders (Romney, et al) would swoop in and take them over in order to claim the excess for themselves.

[sulphurdunn]

86. Interesting

[trumad]

2. Line 5

Did you really ask that?

[GeorgeGist]

3. The stupid runs deep in Reagan World™.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

37. That oughta be a bumper sticker.

And/or campaign slogan for every Democrat in 2014, 2016, 2018, etc.

[underpants]

4. Translation

They are only going to take a ~soft~ s#!t in your mouth

[bahrbearian]

8. About time , I'm tired of chewing

in order to swallow the bull shit.

[misterhighwasted]

5. Someone got a big BONUS for coming up with this piece of B.S. "Pension Smooting" WTF??

I must be living in dumbfuckistan

[woo me with science]

6. Well, these days it's always important to keep in mind

Last edited Fri Jul 18, 2014, 12:47 PM - Edit history (1)

the difference between "Democrats" and Democrats.

Lots of pod people "Democrats" in office. And untold money is being poured into propaganda and manipulation.

Obama taps "cognitive infiltrator" Cass Sunstein for Committee to create "trust" in NSA:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023512796

Salon: Obama confidant’s spine-chilling proposal: Cass Sunstein wants the government to "cognitively infiltrate" anti-government groups
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

The US government's online campaigns of disinformation, manipulation, and smear.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024560097

Snowden: ‘Training Guide’ for GCHQ, NSA Agents Infiltrating and Disrupting Alternative Media Online
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/25/snowden-training-guide-for-gchq-nsa-agents-infiltrating-and-disrupting-alternative-media-online/

The influx of corporate propaganda-spouting posters is blatant and unnatural.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3189367

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News To Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262111

The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

The government figured out sockpuppet management but not "persona management."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023358242

The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4159454

Seventeen techniques for truth suppression.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4249741

Just do some Googling on astroturfing - big organizations have some sophisticated tools.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1208351

Greenwald: Leaked Docs Reveal Agency's (GCHQ) Digital Propaganda Toolkit
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025241916[/div class="excerpt"]

[rhett o rick]

13. rec

[RufusTFirefly]

22. +1

[zeemike]

31. Some good links there.

And many of the DU links I missed when posted...I need to spend more time here I guess if I am to see even half of the good stuff...so thanks for keeping them alive for those of us that missed them the first time.

But this one I found very interisting...
Seventeen techniques for truth suppression.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4249741
You can see it everywhere in the internet...they have a big budget for this kind of shit.

[hfojvt]

42. I found this to be an odd example

"If evidence exists that the Vince Foster "suicide" note was forged, they would have reported it. They haven't reported it so there is no such evidence."

So Foster being murdered is NOT a conspiracy theory?

[zeemike]

45. What I find odd is this.

"They haven't reported it so there is no such evidence."
As if they would be all about the truth no matter who's toes they step on...That kind of reporting is dead and has been for years now.

[hfojvt]

59. truth is not big with the media

but they certainly are willing to say bad things about elected officials. Like nobody in the media ever said anything bad about Clinton.

[LuvNewcastle]

39. Thanks a million.

[L0oniX]

52. Thanks much. Bookmarking ...saving list to desktop.

[Enthusiast]

67. +1 an entire shit load.

[Enrique]

9. it sounds like a form of borrowing

which is an appropriate way to fund road projects.

[NightWatcher]

10. that sounds double plus good

[n2doc]

11. Well we have plenty of money to spend on useless military hardware

Like the trillion dollar boondoggle F 35. Line five's answer, YES, is the reason for this. Although I would call them crooked rather than dysfunctional. And as long as the majority of voters just click on the name they recognize best next to the party they are trained to support, nothing will change.

[packman]

17. Hey, even Dem's

can fuck up. But, I like to think we'll correct those fuck-ups and learn from them.

[jeff47]

18. Yes, Congress is that dysfunctional.

Take a look at the House. Now, how do you get a tax hike through it, a few months before an election?

[Fuddnik]

20. I agree they're that dysfunctional.....and corrupt.

But, maybe I'm dreaming, but sometimes they gotta force themselves to do the right thing.

[jeff47]

21. No, they really don't have to.

They'll be taken care of. So it really doesn't matter if the rest of the world burns.

And the ideologues actually think they're doing the right thing.

[zeemike]

32. True that.

If a congress person becomes unpopular by voting for or purposing something that is unpopular they will just make sure his opponent is just as corrupt as he is....and when he is defeated in an election he gets a job as a logiest and will sit on the board of directors of some company he will make some real money for his cooperation.
There is no down side to doing what the PTB want.

[conservaphobe]

24. As long as I can get across a bridge without it collapsing,

I don't care what accounting tricks they use to make it happen.

[SammyWinstonJack]

72. Ugh!

[7962]

27. STILL not as stupid as Todd Akin and his nonsense!

[Autumn]

30. Which Democrat are you talking about?

[Puglover]

40. LOL yeah I am wondering that myself!

Hey Autumn

[Autumn]

56. Hey, how are you doing?

I was afraid of the answer to my question.

[Fuddnik]

41. The one in the White House proposed this.

[woo me with science]

50. ...

[Autumn]

55. Well shit

can't win for losing.

[Taitertots]

44. Gas taxes are just a scheme to shift the tax burden off the 0.1%ers

I refuse to accept the false dilemma that we must balance the budget on the backs of the poor/middle class (gas taxes) to avoid balancing the budget on the backs of the poor/middle class (pension smoothing...).

Just tax the fucking billionaires already!

[ErikJ]

62. What about cig and alcohol taxes then?

Gas tax raises rev for roads and mass transit but is also a sort of sin tax to discourage more driving and gas hogs.
Its been 18 cents a gal for 30 years so has actually decreased. In Europe which is 10 times more progressive than the US the gas tax is at least over $3 a gal to discourage driving and pollution and oil dependence which is the root cause of our problems in the mideast.

[Taitertots]

69. You should say "discourages poor/middle class Americans from driving"

Because gas taxes (and almost all sin taxes) are an irrelevant burden for the wealthy. The higher gas taxes in Europe are more regressive, not progressive. They shift the tax burden from the wealthy onto the poor/middle class.

[ErikJ]

74. There are millions of middle class still buying gas hogs

The gas hog pickups are STILL the best selling vehicles even with suburbanites which means they literally have $ to burn. This can only be discouraged with higher gas taxes.

[Mopar151]

90. This is as much a function of insurance rates/registration costs

As it is of gas being "too cheap". If you have occasional need of a pickup, the price of insurance and registration for a "commuter" car (in most states)will more than eat up the cost savings over driving the pickup. If there is a teen driver in the household, it gets even worse.

[Taitertots]

97. So, you don't care that it hurts millions of poor/middle class Americans

Because you want to discourage poor/middle class Americans from owning less fuel efficient cars.

Why don't you just advocate tighter fuel efficiency standards for everyone? Instead of using regressive taxes to punish poor people for not making the choices that you want them to make.

[Cryptoad]

48. You didn't source your quote

No more Regressive taxes,,,,,, eliminate a tax loop hole for the wealthy to fund it!

[saidsimplesimon]

49. Increasing the gas tax will not be popular with the destroy

the government, drown it in a bathtub, libertarian crowd. The big corporation, big oil, big pharma, big healthcare crowd will moan and groan over, you know (freedom).

Don't just give up with "Fuck it ALL". Vote in every election, send the fockers home.

[cstanleytech]

61. Unless there is a major mininuim wage increase included in that then a raising of the gas tax is

going to hurt a hell of alot of people who are struggling right now.

[Scarsdale]

63. Ideas

Tax churches, especially the Bingo and Casino nights. The mega churches are scams, meddling in politics. Why are all their "leaders" millionaires? Review foreign aid, then set tight controls on it. Karzi in Afghanistan is not using his aid to help his people, just himself. Once all the Americans are out, so will he be! Israel seems to use it on weapons to kill their neighbors. The African nations receive Aid, yet do not seem to use it to help their people. The leaders get rich, then leave. Any person who works at Wal Mart, yet needs welfare and food stamps should have the help they receive paid for by Wal Mart, not taxpayers. Either pay a living wage, or pay for taxper helpCharity begins at home. Stop the Aid, we can not afford it. Our roads and bridges are crumbling, plus there are still too many people under employed, or not working at all.

[Enthusiast]

65. Kicked and recommended!

Those are world class weasel words—Pension Smoothing.

[mwrguy]

68. Nationalize the oil companies, tax the churches, stop sending $$ to Israel, tax assets over $1mil

There are lots of other ways to raise cash.

[valerief]

70. It's my understanding the U.S. Military is the biggest user of gasoline.

I wonder if they pay a gas tax (so military money can go to civilian roads).

[Maven]

73. CORRECTION: cut oil subsidies and throw the $$$ to MASS TRANSIT projects

Payback for the systematic dismantling of public transit by the oil, auto and rubber industries which has been disastrous for civic life in cities across America. Not to mention the environment.

[RKP5637]

76. "We the people" don't have representation in much of congress. Some people think they do,

but they are so misguided by some politicians they don't know which way is up and vote for those doing them in.

[blkmusclmachine]

77. Another ominous sign of a deeply corrupted Democratic Party.

[sulphurdunn]

78. No legislation

opposed by big business will pass congress.

[pansypoo53219]

83. we need to JUST INDEX EVERYTHING TO INFLATION! primal scream time.

tinkle down + grover norquist MUST DIE!

[obxhead]

84. To be signed into law by the Hope and Change man himself.

Monday I have my round, gotta work all weekend.

[Sick_of_TP]

85. Older cars get poor mileage

Poor people drive old cars with poor gas mileage. People that make lots of money drive either new cars with good gas mileage or a Mercedes that belong to the company and the their gas is a write off anyway.
Higher gas tax effects the poorest people the most.

[The Wizard]

87. To survive and thrive in the 21st Century

We will have to convert to carbon free, renewable energy. It would reduce demand for old energy and put more money in circulation. There will be a transition into electric vehicles. Oil companies can still play games with the market, but that window is closing. Eventually big oil will go the way of blacksmiths and buggy whips.
This allows us to cut military spending as there won't be a need to have a military presence in the middle east protecting big oil's interests. There's a whole lot of money getting sent to off shore tax havens and that circulates into the economy. Furthermore the military uses mot petroleum products that the civilian population.
The big money people create disasters and then capitalize on the misery of others. We got it all wrong.
I used to rebuild internal combustion engines for a living, and if need be I could learn how to fix electric motors. Actually I did that too as part of my job was rebuilding starting motors and alternators. There will be a reduction of auto service workers as electric motors require far less maintenance. Then again. Electric motor manufacturers could produce electric motors that need service like replacing bearings and brushes every 25,000 miles.

[steve2470]

88. ‘Pension Smoothing,’ the Highway Trust Fund’s Temporary Friend

http://blogs.rollcall.com/the-container/pension-smoothing-the-highway-trust-funds-temporary-friend/?dcz=

The 10-month Highway Trust Fund bill that the House passed last week is hardly the first piece of legislation that features a mishmash of pay-for provisions intended to keep it from increasing the deficit. This time around, one of the primary revenue-raisers ($6.4 billion worth) is a “pension smoothing” provision.

Never heard of that accounting maneuver? CQ Roll Call’s Emma Dumain and David Harrison explain it this way:

(Pension smoothing) lets companies with defined benefit retirement plans assume higher interest rates when calculating how much money they need to contribute for their employees’ retirement. That reduces their required contributions into the plans and, in turn, raises the amount of taxes they owe, bringing new revenue to the federal government.

That’s over the short term. “But over the long-term, companies will be on the hook to contribute more to their pension funds, lowering tax revenue,” writes Alex Rogers of Time magazine in a useful explainer on pension smoothing. “It’s no one’s ideal revenue raiser,” Rogers says.

[DeSwiss]

91. Fuckitall.....

...brought to you by the makers of Nosolitol:

- New. Normal.

K&R

[eShirl]

93. Pension Siphoning. Pension Skimming.

hell. Stealing.

[xchrom]

94. du rec.

[Hotler]

95. Im with you.....

I'm all over the fukitol and the booze. Who said "Pension smoothing"??? I want to write to them.

[Fuddnik]

96. One of his staff.

I first heard it on CBS evening News, then John Stewart took off with it on The Daily Show Wed, or Thurs.

[woo me with science]

98. kick