This Woman Has Been Confronting Her Catcallers — And Secretly Filming Their Reactions

[Agschmid]

Warning, ugh/vomit alert...

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Several weeks ago, 28-year-old Minneapolis resident Lindsey was standing on an escalator when a stranger began touching her hair and calling her “blondie.” When she told the man he “could just say ‘hi’ next time,” she said, he began screaming at her and calling her ugly. The situation reminded Lindsey — a longtime confronter of catcallers, most notably in last year’s Craigslist ad gone viral — that while she could control her reaction to street harassers, she couldn’t always anticipate their reaction to being confronted.

It was then she had the idea for Cards Against Street Harassment — pocket-sized cards women could download, print, and hand out to their catcallers, explaining why the attention was unwanted without even speaking.

“When you walk down the street do random strangers comment on how you look?” one card asks. “No? Wow. That must be nice.”

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Of course, Lindsey still engages with the men she encounters. But now, with the cards as her platform, she films the conversations as a “cathartic extra response,” she told BuzzFeed.

“I am genuinely interested in what place this is coming from,” said Lindsey, who asked to only be identified by her first name. Lindsey’s tone in the videos is obviously confrontational, but also curious — never combative.

“The first time that I caught it, I was just on the phone with my sister and the guy interrupted my phone call and tried to hug me,” she said... More Here.

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[Louisiana1976]

44. +1 million

[betsuni]

68. Too much Minnesota Nice?

[IronLionZion]

78. Minnesota Nice isn't actually nice

its more like passive aggressive where they smile at you while insulting you.

[betsuni]

80. Well, that explains my Midwestern relatives

I never know if they are "teasing" or insulting.

[Jamastiene]

152. I would have said she should have slapped him.

He needed it for that and she could easily have pointed out it was in self defense.

[Liberal_in_LA]

165. exactly

[PowerToThePeople]

2. Good for her

Call out the pigs for what they are.

DURec.

[ismnotwasm]

3. Good for her

It's not that hard not to be a creep.

[Agschmid]

5. Not really challenging at all.

[awoke_in_2003]

59. I have seen thousands of beautiful women in my life..

I have never once done the things these pigs have done. I grew up with a strong mother and two strong grandmothers- they would not have approved.

[Baitball Blogger]

4. I think the best punishment for this man is to show this video

to some of the sistahs in the neighborhood.

[Kali]

6. I never understood why these idiots think they are going to get anywhere with this kind of behavior.

has there ever been a woman who went on to fuck some asshole that catcalled her on the street?

[redqueen]

7. It's not about getting dates. It's about exercising and reinforcing dominance.

These men get to feel powerful, and everyone around them is reminded of the higher status of men, and the lower status of women.

[Kali]

9. maybe, but

they come off as juvenile morans to me. talk about low status

[redqueen]

10. And that is part of it.

This is one way that men of any class can feel power over someone else. They can gain a sense of superiority simply by exercising their male privilege.

[prairierose]

13. exactly....n/t

[Louisiana1976]

45. True. They should check their privilege.

[seabeyond]

82. for that brief moment, they claim ownership. why they do it and feel empowered. why they do not do

it with another man and it is disrespect, because he has ownership of the woman. why they say bible put women on this earth for them.

and this is why any half way competent aware woman gets pissed off.

[redqueen]

86. Some women apparently don't mind being treated with contempt and disrespect.

Apparently, to some, chipping a nail is more worthy of getting upset about.

[seabeyond]

91. lol. ya. just read that one. nt

[smirkymonkey]

12. Exactly.

And nowhere is that made more clearly than in the part of the video where she asks him if he would call her out if she was walking down the street with a man and he said something to the effect of "No, because I wouldn't want to show him any disrespect". So he realizes it's disrespectful, he just doesn't care if the person he is disrespecting is female. Pretty disgusting.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

17. yeppers.

Too many men think that way. And have no idea. It just feels good. And they've always gotten away with it.

[awoke_in_2003]

61. because if he show disrespect to the man...

he may get his ass beat. Like as has been said before, it is all about dominance.

[NickB79]

130. That's funny, because my wife was called out many times when we were walking together

We lived in St. Cloud, Minnesota, at the time. When we were dating, men would openly call her out as we were walking down the street, sitting down to eat subs at my job, etc.

I don't know if the fact that we were a mixed-race couple in a smallish city had anything to do with it, but more than once one she was asked what she was doing with that "white boy" WHILE I WAS SITTING RIGHT THERE!

Some guys are just assholes.

[smirkymonkey]

150. Sorry that happened to you and your wife.

And yes, some people ARE just assholes. There is no excuse for it.

[awoke_in_2003]

60. +1000. nt

[yuiyoshida]

144. +2000

Agree and doubling it.

[Archae]

16. I used to know a guy who had one pick-up line.

Just one.

"Wanna fuck?"

The surprising thing was, he did get girls once in a while.

Of course, naturally, he got slipped or kicked many times...

[concreteblue]

18. Maybe

he was more interested in getting slapped by a woman? Just sayin.......
That being said, I have a friend who in his younger years was quite the Ladies Man. On the occasion that he was gracious enough to answer "how do you do it" he would point out what he was taught in a sales class: A certain percentage of prospects will buy ANYTHING, even dog poo on a stick...it's a numbers game. One time, when I expressed disbelief, he did a demo for me. He walked through the bar we were in walking up to random females asking them if they wanted to fuck. He left with one of them about 5 minutes later.....

[Tetris_Iguana]

32. Exactly

It only takes getting one yes to make it a good night.

Not my sort of thing, but to each his or her own.

[tblue37]

22. One afternoon many years ago, as I was walking to the store in a small

shopping mall, a man pulled up next to me in a truck and asked if I wanted to go get a drink. I was so absolutely taken aback by the absolute cluelesssness of the advance that I stopped and stared at him and said, "Seriously? Seriously? Does that kind of bullish** ever work for you?"

He actually looked embarrassed and even apologized as he drove off.

BTW, at the time I wouldn't have scared the children or anything, but I was in my mid-forties and probably at least 30 pounds overweight. Nor was I dressed to attract attention, either. I wore no make-up and I was just wearing a loose T-shirt and jeans. But the fact that I was a female walking by herself, even at 3:00 in the afternoon, was enough to strike the idiot as an invitation.

[Brickbat]

39. It's not about "getting somewhere." It's about establishing dominance.

[Ms. Toad]

75. Well, yes -

but only because it turned into rape....Hmm...maybe there's a connection.

[ieoeja]

107. "Why?" Because it works. "Has there ever been a woman...?" Yes.

I knew a guy in college who would go to the bars at night and ask every unattached woman he met if she wanted to fuck. Inevitably, before the night was out he would meet a woman who did. He may receive a hundred and thirty-one "no" answers. And likely piss off a hundred and thirty-one women. But you will enventually get that one "yes" answer. And it only takes one.

He was a jerk, of course. He had no right to piss off the other hundred and thirty-one women. But as they were not fucking him, he didn't care if he pissed them off. He wanted what he wanted. And to hell with anyone else.

Should come as no surprise that he was a poli-sci major. Politicians don't become assholes. Assholes become politicians.

And, yes, I've also known guys to do this on the street successfully, not just in the bars where a lot of women are there because they are looking to get laid. A woman walking down the street may not be looking to get laid, but the cat call can start a conversation that may lead to getting laid, or even lead to an actual relationship.

For that matter, getting laid can lead to a relationship. After a one-night stand with one woman, I kept running into her. A string of one-night stands eventually led to us getting married for several years. We're no longer married, but still connected for various purposes (except, oddly enough, sex).

[Iggo]

127. They don't think they're getting anywhere with the woman.

They're scoring points with their buddies or with their own stupid-ego.

"Har har har! Did ya hear that rude thing I said to that chick? Boy, she looked pissed! Let's high-five each other now. Har har har!"

Oy motherfucking vey.

Been there. Done that. Grew up.

[stevenleser]

8. K&R nt

[trumad]

11. Unreal...

and embarrassing to men in general.

[awoke_in_2003]

62. yes, it is...

too many of our sex never mature past the age of 12.

[llmart]

168. That's the most accurate post on this thread!

And sadly the truth.

[L0oniX]

14. K & R

[Leith]

15. Every Day That I Go Out in Public

I am glad that I'm 30 lbs too fat and 30 years too old for the creeps to even see. It's a hell of a relief.

[colorado_ufo]

19. Touching is always WAYYYYY out of line, and

"catcalls" can be annoying. But take heart! The day will come when these will end, even if you take really good care of yourself. It is, for better or worse, just the way it is.

And sorry - engaging in banter and passing out cards only feeds into the attention; just keep walking and ignore, unless you are touched: THAT demands a swift response!

[Kali]

25. "The day will come when these will end, even if you take really good care of yourself."

um, *deleted personal attack response*

[Agschmid]

30. Wtf, mate?

[ismnotwasm]

98. Ew.

[PasadenaTrudy]

27. I feel the same way

I'm now 50 and put on some lbs. I love being invisible to men!!

[Louisiana1976]

46. Me, too.

[tblue37]

20. Here are comments from 2 different men that pretty much embody an

attitude we are continually having to deal with--(I have added the bold in both quotes:

~“When you’re dressed the way you are …. what’s the purpose for a women to be on this earth [if not] for a man?”

~“Women are put on this earth to satisfy a man, so if she feels offended, she shouldn’t have [ever] been born.”

The second guy actually cited the bible as his justification for that belief! (But of course that shouldn't surprise us since the RW fundamentalists also insist that a woman's role is to be subservient and submissive to men.)

Those posters on DU (and not all of them are men!) who insist that being subjected to unwanted advances and catcalls while out in public is not really that big a deal need to wrap their minds around the fact that this is precisely the attitude that fuels much of that sort of harassment!

[Louisiana1976]

47. I wonder how men would feel if women made catcalls and unwanted advances towards them.

[Skittles]

50. they'd be fine with it, as long as she passed their test of "hitability"

[betsuni]

67. Sometimes when I'm with my sister

and we see a good lookin' man, we'll take a long gander and smile. The man often looks alarmed. Two leering female lions drooling antelope-flavored saliva -- are they hungry? will they attack? Now he knows how the prey feels.

[IronLionZion]

81. That was on an episode of sex and the city

where the redhead got tired of catcalls and decided to turn the tables and catcalled back at the construction workers and stated that she wanted hot hard sex with them. The guys were shocked and backed off apologizing and saying they were married and can't have sex with her. It was funny.

[IronLionZion]

89. Honest answer from a male who welcomes attention from women:

whether I find it creepy or romantic really depends on my level of attraction to her. If she's close to my age and cute and asks for my number, then great! If she's much older or whatever and touches me without permission or makes gross physical comments or is visibly intoxicated then hell no.

I live in DC which is full of type A personalities so it happens more often than you may think. A lot of these overeducated career-obsessed liberal women really go after what they want like lionesses (or cougars).

[redqueen]

92. As long as they're young and cute. So typical.

Men do not live in the same world women do:

?w=500&h=1000

[IronLionZion]

93. It is typically based on attraction

isn't it? Wouldn't you prefer someone you're attracted to?

I was just giving an honest answer. And of course I know men and women don't have the same experience at all. I'm sorry that offensive shit happens to women, and I promise I'm not the one doing it. I'm against that sort of behavior and wouldn't want it done to me either.

[redqueen]

95. The thing is, you're ignoring reality

Do you think the men harassing women are young and cute according to the girls and women they harass?

And the reason I included the comic: Do you think that even if they were, it would matter?

This is a common mistake men make. They think 'Well if the guy is sexy she won't call it harassment!' and that just shows they don't have the first fucking clue.

[IronLionZion]

100. OK

There's no justification for the men harrassing women, and I make no excuses for them.

For the comic, I think offensive comments would be offensive no matter who is doing it.

I was mainly thinking about polite comments, but I'll leave it at that.

[redqueen]

104. It isn't polite. Or if it ever is, it is a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the time.

If men are going up to men and complimenting their appearance in the same way they do women, that is the ONLY time it could be considered "polite".

[heaven05]

21. unless

a person/woman speaks to me, I don't say a goddamn thing. Not these days. "Times they are a changin".

[leftyohiolib]

24. im the same way -i say hi and that's it. but im sure i wont be long untill people

find that offending

[leftyohiolib]

23. devil's advocate here - if someone tells you how pretty you are to them

what's wrong with saying thank-you and moving on

[LeftyMom]

26. More disrespect for women from you. No surprise.

At least you're not calling women murderers this time, I guess that's progress.

[leftyohiolib]

31. here's a card for you

i cant say "you are beautiful" to you but you can say that to me?

[geek tragedy]

40. Yes. Just like a woman can get an abortion

without the husband having any say in the matter.

[Agschmid]

42. I don't really see anything wrong with that...

Her body, her choice. No?

[geek tragedy]

43. Certain persons in this thread have explicitly

advocated forced birth viewpoints.

[leftyohiolib]

72. as you know i dont agree it's my baby too but that's different thread. why are you trying to start

a fight. we disagree about that why bring it up here

[geek tragedy]

77. Legally you are absolutely wrong

as far as the US is concerned. But in Saudi Arabia you would probably be correct from a legal standpoint.

[redqueen]

87. Why bring it up here? Because it is illustrative, that's why. nt

[leftyohiolib]

97. well it's not polite to hijack a thread and im not gonna play. that is how i feel about it and

those that dont like it will have find a way to move on

[seabeyond]

99. it is not polite to give unsolicited opinions about strangers on the street either, but not only do

you justify it, you tell those that you give unsolicited opinions to, to deal with it and move on. cause for whatever reason, you have the right, over them

and THAT is the very point we women recognize and point out that you pretend you do not see.

[leftyohiolib]

102. the deal with and move on was directed to the any poster who didnt like m view on the thread

leftmom was trying to inject into this thread, the one you said was telling. as for this,i was told that what i was talking about isnt what the thread was about. people should be able to accept an innocuous compliment was my point and i was told that that is not the point of this thread

[seabeyond]

106. rating an unknown womans attractiveness and letting her know she passes muster is neither innocuous

or acceptable. a point you refuse to consider. instead you demand your right to inject yourself in anothers space, and that woman MUST accept.

[leftyohiolib]

113. nope, we dont live on our own little islands and because of that we pass people all the time

people say all kinds of things to each other and as long as comments are civilized we should be able to respond in kind. i also dont think all compliments are given because the complimenter needs the complimented to think the complimented passes some personal test of the complimenter.

instead you demand your right to inject yourself in anothers space, and that woman MUST accept. wow im glad i dont live in your world

and that woman MUST accept.? did i say that?

and this is your view of a compliment? : rating a unknown womans attractiveness adn letting her know she passes muster is neither innocuous or acceptable. demand your right to inject yourself in anothers space, and that woman MUST accept.

[seabeyond]

124. "and that woman MUST accept.? did i say that?" not only have you said it each post, you reiterate it

in this post here, i reply to.

it is men like you, that refuse to get that you do not have the right to walk up to a woman and rate her looks. instead you demand that women take it, cause you are that privilege.

totally... amazing.

[Dawgs]

133. My recommendation is to ignore this DUer.

They have one agenda and they refuse to listen to anyone that might slightly disagree. And, if you're a man, forget about it.

[Scout]

139. ROFL

poor Dawgs

[Dawgs]

143. Ha. Thanks for the concern, but I'm fine.

Free from bitterness and anger.. unlike others.

[Scout]

145. if you say so

sure cuz everyone who isn't bitter or angry tells other people on DU who they should/shouldn't talk to!

[nomorenomore08]

149. So even if she wants an abortion, you should be able to *force her* to not get one?

As in, your opinion overrides her body? What century do you live in?

[leftyohiolib]

153. as in it's my baby too

[nomorenomore08]

166. On an emotional level, I understand that. But in practical terms, you can't legally force her

to do something she doesn't want to do with her body, e.g. give birth.

[Quantess]

29. You don't get it, do you.

Random strangers making catcalls and comments, when you are minding your own business and just trying to get from point A to point B, are more annoying than you can wrap your mind around, apparently.

[leftyohiolib]

34. no, i get it catcalls and vulgar comments are unacceptable,

but i wasnt talking about them. if you walking from point a to point b and someone passes you and says you look beautiful or nice dress or cool glasses what's wromg with thanks. noone should have to deal with vulgarities

[Luminous Animal]

65. So, you are walking down the street and you have a presentation you have to give and you are going

through it in your mind... fine tuning it... and some yahoo thinks that your personal introspection is not as important as a response as how much he likes your dress.

Women have inner lives that have nothing to do with how attractive a man thinks they are.

[leftyohiolib]

71. i know people have stuff going on that doesnt include what anyone thinks about them

what im saying is you are walking down the street and you have a presentation you have to give and you are going through it in your mind... fine tuning it... and someone says "wow you look fantastic" you say "thanks" and you go back to your presentation
but im being told that that scenerio is not what this thread is about

[Ms. Toad]

76. Would you ever think to make the same comment to a man walking down the stree you had never met?

That's what's wrong with it.

A long way in the future, and far, far, away, when catcalls and objectively power based crap has been rejected for what it it, then your "wow you look fantastic" might truly be a compliment. Until then - nope.

And expecting someone to respond to it, just because it sounds like a compliment in your head - definitely a power play.

[redqueen]

105. "Would you ever think to make the same comment to a man walking down the street you had never met?"

THIS

Why don't people see this for what it is?

It is so incredibly obvious.

[Ineeda]

110. Bingo.

The easy-to-understand definition of sexist/misogynistic behavior: If the behavior is not acceptable when directed toward the target's gender opposite, it's not acceptable. Period.

[CreekDog]

69. why are you so insistent on derailing this thread over your straw man?

the idea that what is being complained about is not catcalls and the like but men simply saying in the politest terms, "you look wonderful, i hope you're having a wonderful day."

that's not what's shown and if that truly were the nature of catcalls, this issue would likely be much more minor than it is.

but thanks for playing and for the straw man.

[noamnety]

83. Um, I'm not going to "thank" you for rating my looks.

WTF. I can't even imagine what would be in your head to think I should owe you a thank you for commenting on my body.

I mean, do you do that to men? (assuming you're a straight guy here) Would you walk by a stranger and stop to tell him he looks nice?

If the answer is no, then you should be able to understand it's not just a compliment, it's a comment about on some level wanting to fuck the person - based on nothing to do with who they actually are. And no, I'm not gonna thank some strange guy for that. For god's sakes, guys will fuck goats and watermelons.

[redqueen]

88. Someone here said that thanking the harasser is a sign of high self esteem and empowerment.

[noamnety]

94. The only thing I can think of that would be even more empowering

is if random men held up actual signs with scores as we walked by, and then demanded our attention in return.

What struck me in the video is how the point is lost on those men because they really are too stupid to even grasp the points the woman is making. And the same seems to be true among some responses in this thread - all some people can grasp it that if we don't take time to acknowledge strange men and thank them for doing us the favor of rating us, we're stuck up bitches with self-esteem issues.

[redqueen]

96. Yep. They simply refuse to listen.

They prefer to find an example, one of the tiny minority of women who actually thinks being treated with disrespect is somehow a compliment, and use that to tell themselves they don't have to listen, because it's all just opinions and they don't have to consider anyone's but those few women's.

[catbyte]

108. You really don't see why a total stranger coming up to a woman to tell her "You're pretty"

wouldn't seriously creep a woman out? It's presumptious and these days vaguely threatening. Please don't do it. Most of us don't view it as a compliment.

[leftyohiolib]

115. well im not a woman but i have been complimented by them and it's never creeped me out

and i NEVER saw it as this as one poster described it:
rating a unknown womans (my case man's)adn letting her (him) know she(he) passes muster is neither innocuous or acceptable. demand your right to inject yourself in anothers space, and that woman(i) MUST accept.
but i dont say things to people much more than "hi" so i dont hear things like it creeps women out

[catbyte]

116. That's probably because you never had to wonder if a sexual assault might be coming

if you don't respond "in the right way."

[leftyohiolib]

118. youre correct but in what im talking about there wouldnt be any abuse

which is why i was told that what im talking about didnt apply here. but i dont think the woman in the video which started this was in any danger of that either

[nomorenomore08]

148. There's no bright line between "rude" and "polite" when it comes to unwanted attention.

Even if not intended as rude, it tends to be seen that way. Especially when a person is constantly subjected to it.

[proReality]

33. A polite smile and a little nod as you pass is sufficient.

That's a civil and friendly response.


No leering or drooling or cat calls or comments are appreciated. Those are knuckle dragger responses.

It's all about manners, aka Respect.

[leftyohiolib]

35. agreed

[Starry Messenger]

37. Because that isn't what happens.

And if I made an unsolicited remark about you and expected a response and got into your face about it, you probably wouldn't say thank you and move on either.

[leftyohiolib]

73. youre correct but that isnt what i saw on the video. i can go watch it again but what

im being told is that isnt what the thread was about

[Starry Messenger]

125. Well, then you only watched the first 5 seconds.

And this thread is about catcalling, I don't know who is telling you other stuff. Not my problem.

[Brickbat]

41. That's not what street harassment is.

[NYC Liberal]

52. Please. The men that do this aren't just giving a nice compliment.

It's a threat thinly diguised with a "compliment". If it weren't, it would end at the woman saying "Thank you" and both walking away. That's not what happens though.

The men that do this are pigs and they know exactly what they're doing.

[Luminous Animal]

57. Because you have no right to grab attention away from introspective dialogue.

Unless we make eye contact, leave me alone. And even then, a simple hi will do because your assessment of my attractiveness is your business. Not mine.

[Harmony Blue]

64. Because it requires a greater

self esteem to acknowledge and thank someone and then empower yourself to walk away.

[seabeyond]

84. you are missing what so many refuse to recognize. it is said bluntly, clearly and you refuse,

absolutely refuse to process. why?

who are you to critique a womans appearance. she does not give a fuck if you find her attractive, thinks she is pretty, access she is fuckable.

she does not ask for your comment, want your comment, need your comment.

and yet... you continually try to foist it on her. why?

[LanternWaste]

122. I don't think Devil's Advocacy responds to a premise not presented in the original argument

I don't think Devil's Advocacy responds to a premise not presented in the original argument, but rather attempts to counter the original premise. Seems your role is less like Devil's Advocate and more like Ignoratio Elenchi.

[Scout]

140. cuz i don't give a shit what they think ... why should i thank them? n/t

[leftyohiolib]

141. it's polite that's what civilized societies do or dont say anything at all

[Scout]

142. "dont [sic] say anything at all"

that's what the person making unsolicited comments to ME should do.

and of course, if i don't thank them for comments i don't want, then am i not doing what you just said, "dont [sic] say anything at all" ... i think you just don't know what you want. and i don't care!

[Soylent Brice]

28. It's pathetic that this doesn't have triple digit recs and twice as many views.

Fucking awful.
Glad she's doing this.

[BlueJazz]

36. If I ever did something like that, I'd try to call the funeral director 'cause I know...

..I'd die of embarrassment.

[irisblue]

38. I have said

leave me the hell alone, and wouldn't your momma and poppa be soo proud of you now. Get away from me. It has worked very well.

[Louisiana1976]

48. Excellent post. K&R

[PumpkinAle]

49. I think a couple of squirts of pepper spray

is in order, but then I would probably be the one charged.

No excuse, absolutely no excuse for their behavior.

[WillowTree]

51. I have way more important things to worry about than.......

.......if someone gives me an unsolicited compliment. Even a total stranger on the street. In my mind, this chick is just looking for something to be POed about.

Now, when it reaches the point of touching, we have a whole different kettle o' fish.

[Uncle Joe]

54. What if you had to deal with catcalls virtually every other day?

Would that bother you?

[WillowTree]

55. Not one bit.

If I can't find something important to get upset about, I just don't get upset.

Now, if I break a nail.........

[Uncle Joe]

58. I imagine there are some women that don't get upset about breaking a nail? n/t

[WillowTree]

146. Jesus!! It was a joke. Give the outrage a rest why doncha.

It's way easier and more pleasant to smile. You should try it sometime.

[Uncle Joe]

151. I'm not outraged. I didn't know you were joking. I was just checking to see if you could in any way

relate to how they feel...walk in their shoes?

[Quantess]

74. I used to get catcalls, gross noises, etc. literally every single day

that I left my apartment.

I was young, blonde, cute, and living in a hispanic neighborhood in San Francisco.

[Luminous Animal]

66. Really. I was a very attractive young woman. I was also a writer and a musician. A lot of my

walking life was my introspective life... working out a melody or a phrase or advance a plot... things that required concentration and continuity of thought. What gives any human being a right to disrupt that. Few women would think of doing that to a man or woman. Many men do that to women. They think they own our space.

[Sparkly]

85. "Unsolicited compliment"

It's not an "unsolicited compliment." It's harassment, plain and simple. And when you're addressed three times in every block it is just infuriating.

[catbyte]

114. Not only is it infuriating, it's also scary & creepy.

[WillowTree]

147. She went off on someone who said, almost under his breath.......

.......how pretty the girls were around there. That's harassment? Really?

I'd sure hate to be a man these days.

[redqueen]

160. IKR? You can't even objectify women anymore without some uppity feminist type making you

feel bad for treating women like decorations! Not even quietly enough that only the target can hear it!

What is the world even coming to.

[seabeyond]

161. +1. nt

[Sheldon Cooper]

164. !!

[LanternWaste]

162. It's not difficult at all when we practice civility and engage in being polite towards others.

"I'd sure hate to be a man these days..."

It's not difficult at all when we practice civility and engage in being polite towards others.

[seabeyond]

90. some women need that cat call to recognize their worth as a human being. many women do not.

many women recognize it is not a compliment, nor indicative of their worth, but about ownership for that moment. if a nail is so much more stressful for you than getting PO'ed about some stranger claiming ownership of you in that moment, then, woman.... cry over the nail

[Uncle Joe]

53. Kicked and recommended

Thanks for the thread, Agschmid.

[Agschmid]

56. No problem!

[awoke_in_2003]

63. K&R...

men need to ask themselves a question- do I want my mother, sister, daughter, granddaughter, etc, to be treated like this? If someone did this to the little love of my life (my 9 month old granddaughter), or any other of the women in my life, I would kick their ass to kingdom come. Men just have to stop being pigs.

[Agschmid]

70. Well said.

[klook]

132. Exactly.

I was raised to be polite & courteous, so I don't harass women, make cat-calls, or make physical advances toward women I don't know (or the ones I do know, for that matter, except my Significant Other!).

I would never want the women and girls in my life to be treated like sex objects as they go about their day-to-day business (or any other time). I just can't imagine acting like these creeps. It's called Not Being An Asshole.

[Heidi]

79. I cannot kick this thread high enough or recommend it enough.

By some of the clueless comments in this thread, this is discussion very much needs to happen, even in a progressive community.

Thank you, Agschmid, for your OP.

[Agschmid]

134. Its eye opening sometimes...

[DesertDiamond]

101. I've seen and experienced a LOT of men who talk to women with disrespect they would NEVER dare show

to another man. They do it because they think they can get away with it. To me this is what happens when we raise our children with the idea that fear and respect are the same thing. They don't fear women, so they don't respect them.

[myrna minx]

103. K&R

[davidthegnome]

109. Hmm

Catcalls are, generally speaking, ridiculous, offensive - and a good indicator that the person making them is either not too bright, or not terribly respectful. Or maybe drunk, I guess there are exceptions to almost every rule.

Approaching random strangers on the street to tell them they're hot/sexy/whatever is something I would never do. In part because I'm more respectful than that - but also in part, because I am a very shy person. I have always been a little uncertain though, about where most women draw the line. For instance, there are women I work with who I think of as beautiful, but I've always been too nervous to tell them this, not knowing whether they would appreciate it, or if that would strike them as misogyny, or even harassment. Generally I think it's wisest to keep my mouth shut about such things.

I would agree that approaching random strangers with these comments is not acceptable - and that neither are catcalls. I'm just honestly curious about when, if ever... it is okay to tell a woman we think she is very pretty? Perhaps it's one of those things that's all a matter of individual perspective. I mean, I've had women tell me I'm handsome, which usually leaves me blushing and ducking my head like a little kid... in part because I don't really believe them.

One of my favorite writers once suggested that, rather than telling a woman she is beautiful, you should show her she is, through your actions and words. Perhaps that's the way to go. Still, there are times when I would like to tell a woman that she is very pretty. Not a random stranger on the street, but women I know. The intent would be to compliment, maybe even flirt a little, I would just hope that it would make them feel nice, maybe smile. Or maybe that's just something I should never do.

[seabeyond]

112. do not ever do it at work. she is stuck there with you. you make her uncomfortable with your

declarations on her looks... she is stuck and has to deal with it. not part of her job description.

[IronLionZion]

117. What's your purpose?

Do you want to date these women?

The woman I recently started dating straight up told me she rejects any guy who tells her she's cute/sexy/beautiful as she thinks less of him. She likes a guy who would confidently ask her out for a drink. FWIW, she approached me with a "Hi", and we started talking. I asked if she'd like to get a beer at a bar that was showing a world cup game. I'm impressed that I didn't stutter or have my voice crack. Yes, it is intimidating.

Each one is unique though. You could try that and see if it works.

[davidthegnome]

126. That would be the intent, yes.

I've just never been good at this sort of thing. I don't tell women they're pretty, or beautiful, unless I know them well and have some idea of how they will react - that they know it's a compliment, not an expectation or a leer, and I certainly don't use words like sexy or hot, or cute. I'm just not sure how to go from talking about regular, every day things, work issues, or whatever... to maybe something more. If there's a woman I have a crush on, what do I do or say? I could ask her to have a drink with me, maybe a cup of coffee, maybe ask her out to lunch or something. Even that though, I'm worried it would sort of mess up the work environment. I mean, if she said no, would she feel uncomfortable around me? Probably - and that could turn a friendly working atmosphere into something nervous and weird.

Not something I'm pursuing right now, because I'm seeing someone I met on a dating site - but I'm just wondering what the best way to go about it is. I'm so socially awkward that I once asked my English professor for advice on how to go about the dating game. Also, one day I will probably have these conversations with my son. He knows enough to be respectful and polite, but when it comes to how to go about some things? There are as many different ideas as there are stars in the sky.

[IronLionZion]

138. In that case, stick with online

and social gatherings where the purpose is to meet people. Like check out meetup.com for events in your city. Or if you have friends who like to play matchmaker at parties. Skip the compliments and just go for the number or invitation for a coffee. If you have a successful relationship, you will be complimenting her the rest of your life anyway. But starting off with a physical compliment sounds awkward and shallow. Complimenting her work if she got some accomplishment would sound more genuine.


Workplace would add levels of risk and complications that you probably don't want. It is possible, just look at our president and first lady and lots of other couples, but certainly not the best place to go looking for someone.

If you have a son, then you must have done something right with some woman at some point.

[PasadenaTrudy]

169. My boyfriend

didn't comment on my looks until we were in a serious relationship. There's really no need to do it right away! We've been together 7 yrs now

[redqueen]

119. I'll second sea's opinion.

Do not do this at work. If you like the person just be friendly. Making anything about appearance is just not a good idea. There is a small chance she is one of the women who might appreciate it, but there is a much greater chance that she will find it inappropriate. I have lots of nice chats with men at work about common interests. Those are very pleasant and enjoyable. When men make comments about my looks it is only ever irritating, at best

[treestar]

167. Why do you have to tell them that?

They know. Talk to them about issues and interests.

[JDPriestly]

111. Good for her!

And men should especially shut their mouths around young girls.

[redqueen]

121. This x 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

And I define "young girls" in this case to include teenagers.

[JDPriestly]

128. Precisely! I had written much more about the harassment of my two teenaged daughters

but I thought that my daughters might feel offended and deleted it. As a mother, I could tell stories people would not believe. Hey! As a woman, I could tell stories.

It is especially important that men keep their opinions to themselves in the workplace and at school.

[redqueen]

135. I hear you about the stories. I have two teen girls myself. nt

[Burma Jones]

120. A Personal Story

I am a Deadhead from way back. Some 20+ years ago, I was driving and spotted a Dead Sticker on a car being driven by a conventionally exceptionally attractive woman. I beeped and waved, she flipped me off. I passed her and she saw the Dead Stickers on my car. We pulled up alongside each other at a red light, rolled our windows down and she apologized and I told her there was no need and that I understood. I held up a tape and we parked and exchanged bootleg tapes, shook hands and proceeded living our lives.

[redqueen]

123. Yes, you get it!

It is so nice to know that some men do. I once got such a seriously nasty look from a man who followed me around for a while as i desperately tried to get away, before I realized he had a good reason.

[Tetris_Iguana]

129. Good for her!

Cat calling is just tacky and actually kind of sad.

Although she's just feeding the trolls by giving these guys attention.

[llmart]

170. I'll tell you what's really tacky and sad......

is that godawful shirt the dude has on

[arcane1]

131. Kicking!

[DirkGently]

136. KNR.

[cbdo2007]

154. The amazing thing is how much this actually works for some guys.

Before you attack - no, it's not me. I am pretty shy and try to be as respectful and polite toward women as can be, but probably every guy out there has known a few guys throughout their lives who could walk up to just about any woman, say something jaw-dropping, and turn that into some type of quick fling.

There are a few I know of that stand out, one was in college and was a friend of a friend, and he was just repulsive. Just shockingly offensive stuff would come out of his mouth, and for some reason there are women out there who were drawn to him like a magnet and I could never understand why, but he constantly had numerous women doing whatever he wanted and it seemed like the worse he treated them the harder they tried to please him. It was really strange and I never understood it.

Currently there is a guy here at work that isn't quite as bad, but he just seems to have this power over women and he could absolutely say something offensive and degrading to a woman out in public somewhere and then for some reason it works and he gets their number or they'll even just go off for awhile right then. He's pretty much known as the guy who can get almost any woman, and the rest of us are just standing around shrugging our shoulders as to "why?".

[seabeyond]

155. so, offending 50 women to get one fuck. who the fuck cares? really. who cares? they still offend

and invade the territory of 50 women who should not have to put up with the shit, so he gets one fuck.

you seem to miss the point with your stories. this is not about him getting that one fuck. it is about women, minding their own business, walking down the street, and their space invaded by a bottom feeder.

[cbdo2007]

156. I agree with you, not sure why you're so worked up.

[seabeyond]

157. no more worked up than you or anyone else. why project an emotion you are totally clueless

is there?

you told the stories of two men successful with harassing women. that is what i addressed. instead of seeing that periodically they would get a fuck, i focused on all the women they harassed.

[cbdo2007]

158. Yeah, I'm trying to have a discussion about this subject and why it happens...

and all you are wanting to do is yell at me about it. lol

Sorry, I'll try to be more irrationally upset in the future and just post short, mad posts in the future, rather than try to have an actual discussion on here.

[seabeyond]

159. i am yelling? ya,, i get the "irrational" was simply passive aggressive to get in a jab.

you might want to actually reflect who is having the conversation. who is doing the name calling and taking it to personal

a conversation about the issue. ok. gotcha. and again....

you address the couple of men getting a fuck. i address all the women tehy harass to get the one fuck.

why do you have issue with me addressing the actual subject of the OP

[Sheldon Cooper]

163. Why are you portraying seabeyond as upset and irrational?

She is anything but. I think it's hilariously ironic that you come into a thread about women getting catcalled and then call a woman who challenges you "upset" and "irrational".