Apologists for Hamas should repudiate lack of morality

[oneshooter]

Israel accepts an Egyptian-proposed Gaza cease-fire; Hamas keeps firing. Hamas deliberately aims rockets at civilians; Israel painstakingly tries to avoid them, actually telephoning civilians in the area and dropping warning charges, so-called roof knocking.

"Here's the difference between us," explains the Israeli prime minister. "We're using missile defense to protect our civilians, and they're using their civilians to protect their missiles."

http://www.chron.com/default/article/Krauthammer-Apologists-for-Hamas-should-5629050.php


Are the facts presented true? Or are they otherwise.

[Xipe Totec]

1. Are the facts presented true? Or are they otherwise.

Dunno.

Who's presenting these 'facts'?

That may give us a clue as to their unbiased veracity.

[BillZBubb]

2. Israeli propaganda alert! Geez--Krauthammer? You going that low?

Anyone on DU who cites neo-con, Israel firster Krauthammer should lose their membership.

[2naSalit]

106. +1!!!

[JaneyVee]

3. Who is bombing those children?

Talk about morality.

[bravenak]

5. Charles 'Fox News' Krauthammer?

He's never right about anything. Why are people posting so much stuff from rightwingers?

[RobertEarl]

7. They are pushing us

See just how much warmongering we can take.

I say enough. Make the warmongering end.

[bravenak]

12. Please!!

I cannot take anymore!!

[RobertEarl]

14. It is sickening

If we don't stand against war, we are useless.

Hang in their, bravenak. There really are few warmongers here. They are just drooling a bit more than normal these days.

[bravenak]

45. I hope people can stop thinking that killing people is reasonable.

The rightwingery has gotten to an extremely high level. I am pretty shocked at the easy acceptance of bombing homes and shooting children with missiles as long as we like the people pulling the trigger. My perceptions of the world are changing fast.

[RobertEarl]

49. It isn't looking too safe, is it?

Who knew there were so many just looking for excuses to cause death and destruction?

I grew up in the Vietnam era. There were some real bloodthirsty folks those days. Then came Iraq and the blood thirsty people came out of the woodworks again.

This latest exposition of blood thirsty tho is very shocking. Especially to see on the pages of DU. But they have always been here, just hiding waiting for the moment they could drool and get away with it.

Obama is not in their camp, tho, and I am sure he is looking at how to beat them down and drive a stake thru their hearts. In the meantime he is cognizant of how blood thirsty and deadly they are so he has to be careful or they will come after him, and really, any one of us. Be careful, is all I can say. Be careful, but fight back with peace.

[bravenak]

51. I'm hoping that stopping the flights will have some effect.

Maybe it will give some people a reason to speak out against the bombing campaign. We'll never make it off this planet if we keep fighting for every inch of land. I was hoping for a star trek world someday. Everybody together for a common goal, like the United colors of Benniton, without the capitalist component.

[MADem]

56. Flights have been resumed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/07/23/faa-u-s-flights-banned-from-flying-to-and-from-israel-for-another-day/

[bravenak]

57. I hope they don't have any issues with rockets.

I'd advise anyone i knew to avoid all warzones right now. After the Malaysian flight got blown out of the sky, i'd not want to risk it.

[MADem]

59. That's probably good advice any day of the week in any part of the globe... nt

[malaise]

53. Especially to see on the pages of DU

This

[BlancheSplanchnik]

116. it always feels good to have a boogeyman.

And yell about kicking or bombing that boogeyman's ass.

Really feels weird when I see it here, though.


The map showing the shrinkage of Gaza's territory over time that someone posted...that really hit me.

[snooper2]

85. I know right! Like the pro Rus-Si-A assholes pushing for civil war in Ukraine

thanks!

[leftynyc]

61. Awwww - how awful

it must be for you to sit behind a computer screen as opposed to those who have missiles raining from the skies. I'm not sure how you go on.

[bravenak]

62. I am so sure you've lived a life of danger.

Don't you have some make up to buy? I though you were ordering some Ahava products right now. You said so.


I'd rather be safe in my bomb shelter than in any home in Gaza. I do not support the killing of innocent children or civilians. At least i have that going for me, so I'll hold my head up and stand against war.

But i have to ask, are you dodging rockets right now, or are you safe behind your computer screen too. I bet you are safe comfortable in every way while downtalking me for hating death more than i hate people who are different than me..

It must be so hard for you to sit in your nice pad and find Bravenak being all anti war and shit. Oh, woe is meeeee!!! Bravenak hates children dying!!! Maybe she lost a child and see's her baby in every limp, dead child on her screen!!!! (She did, and she held that dead child until they came and took her away) I must be insensitive to women who lost children!!! Really. Be well.

[leftynyc]

63. I've already put in my order, thanks for asking

I'm not the one whining about not being able to take it anymore so I don't see what my being in danger or not has anything to do with anything.

[bravenak]

64. But you seemed soooo worried about me!

I can't take the dead bodies of babies and children blown apart by the IDF. That's what I'm whining about. I'm not the warmonger or the apologist for killing civilians, thanks for caring. I hope you got a striking palette with nice glosses and brushes. I love glimmer gloss.

[leftynyc]

66. I don't wear makeup

I just use the amazing moisturizers. If you don't think everyone here is disgusted by the images of the children being blown apart, you really don't understand anything at all.

[bravenak]

68. Some people seem to think they can just say 'it's hamas' in order to absolve Israel.

I don't. Both sides have become the 'bad guy'. There is no good guy, not now.

I liked the dead sea body scrub. You should try it if you're ordering. My legs looked so smooth and glowing.

[leftynyc]

69. But yet I only see you condemning one side

I think Bibi is an asshole and have said so on many occasions. But I understand how he got elected as Israeli's were sick of rockets raining down on them and nothing being done about it....so they elected a hawk. I don't try and absolve Israel by invoking hamas but to ignore that a terrorist organization was elected into power and has used the hundreds of millions of dollars sent to the Palestinians for no other purpose but to kill Israeli's rather than improving the life of its people is simply not honest.

Thanks for the tip on the body scrub - I have very dry skin so anything that will make it smooth gets a try from me.

[bravenak]

72. If Hamas was killing hundreds of civilians and i saw it.

I would be venting my spleen at them. I hate people who kill children, i cannot get past that. I want it to stop. I blame the right wing government for all of this shit. Not the citizens of Israel. Hamas is a pack of terrorists nd Likud is allowing them to bring Israel down to their level and lower. They are trading places with the monster due to the settler mentality and the Cheney like policies of Netanyahu. Maybe the outcry from our left will help their left get back in the game and establish peace.

Let the terrorists be the bad guys. Don't do their dirty work for them nd make them look more careful and sympathetic than you. Thats all i ask from Israel. Get the bad guy, leave the civilians alone.

[leftynyc]

75. It's not that easy

The "bad guys" are hiding among the civilians - and that's just the way they want it. They know how easy it is to play on people's emotions and they certainly don't give a shit about their own people or they would have spent some money trying to improve their lives. So Israel does what it can - but it will never be enough for some people. How can they get the rockets and punish hamas without civilian deaths or putting their own people into a meat grinder? Unfortunately, they can't and they're not going to do anything that will cause more Israeli deaths to even up the body count.

[bravenak]

78. I understand.

But i will always feel compelled to comdemn the death of civilians and accuse those with blood stained hands. It is time to negotiate. It is time to allow Palestinian statehood with all of the responsibilities that comes with it. It is time to allow self determination and end the collective punishment for Israel's own safety. Otherwise there will be a one state solution and the Palestinians will have the votes to collectively punish their former oppressors. Then the cycle will never end. Got to do it. No other way to keep a Jewish state. I am glad I'm an atheist and feel no pull towards that area in a religious way. We are the only nation that supports Israel in this. That is not good for the future.

[leftynyc]

86. You're wrong about us being

the only country that supports Israel in this. The EU sent out a press release earlier this week that was the most evenhanded document they've ever presented - plenty of people here were pretty pissed about it as were many on the far left like this group:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/07/24/euis-j24.html

I saw last week the PM of Italy doing a press thing with Bibi (it's Italy's "turn" to be head of the EU at the moment) that also spelled out support for Israel's right to defend itself. I know it's a popular thing to say around here - that the US is the only country that supports Israel but that simply is not the truth.

I share your frustration with the violence but I do have ties to Israel - I have family that lives there and they're lives have been touched much too closely by terrorists so I'm openly biased. I'm all for Palestinian statehood - I always have been. But it wont come from a gun being pointed at Israel's head.

[bravenak]

89. I figured you had close ties to the area.

It is time to bury old hatreds for our children. Gaza also has a gun to it's head, it's been there for years. Both sides deserve the same chance for self determination. Most of Gaza is young, much younger than in many parts of the world. They were not old enough to vote for Hamas. They weren't alive back in the day. We have multiple generations of Palestinians growing up under Israeli control. It is time to let go of Palestine. Otherwise Israel will not exist in 50 years. Not enough births. And too many young Palestinians growing up under a brutal occupation, getting bombed every few years.

[leftynyc]

90. Agree

but neither of us is living literally under the gun. I used to have such high hopes for a I/P peace - then a lunatic killed Rabin and nothing good has come since.

[bravenak]

93. They should let us negotiate for them.

We'd solve it in one night by..... Compromising.

[leftynyc]

95. The hardliners are in charge

of both parties now. The bloodshed wont stop until the electorate on both sides elect peacemakers. But yes, I suspect we could certainly pave the way.

[bravenak]

97. Another point of agreement.

Hardliners suck for peace related enterprise. Maybe after this both people will be too exhausted with the warmongering to keep them in place. Oh please! I wish we could just put Likud and Hamas on Fear Factor and make them battle it out for prizes while the grown ups negotiate. Or survivor. Or Wife Swap. Anything to keep them busy.

[leftynyc]

100. I just let my mind wander

into a Survivor type match....not a bad idea at all. I remember Bibi from way back - he used to be reasonable but then he got into bed with the settlers to get elected. He's been a lunatic ever since. I don't know what the answer is - Israel wont trust the UN (and neither do I) and Hamas wont trust anyone from the west so I don't even know who could put forth a proposal that both sides would look at.

[bravenak]

103. Feels so hopeless.

I was imagining him and Lieberman on 'Naked and Afraid'. Bet he'd get some act right.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_and_Afraid

[leftynyc]

107. Glad you included the link

because I've never heard of that particular show (not really a fan of reality tv - that's what the news is for). And yes, it's a very helpless feeling - especially when loved ones are in the line of fire.

[Aerows]

110. You both captured how I feel about this mess

Hardliners and idiots on both sides. You guys should be in charge of negotiation, because what they have now are fools in charge of both nations (not you guys - you actually are sensible folks!)

Totally frustrating. I'm not sure Gandhi could negotiate peace between the current governments both belligerents have.

[bravenak]

123. Both peoples gotta stop voting in the crazy.

Then we can get a deal. Rightwingers in both sides. Gahh!!!

[Capt. Obvious]

65. Look at these terrified Israelis

[leftynyc]

67. Hey, if you want to condemn

Israel for using their money to build things like Iron Dome to protect their citizens rather than spending it on missiles and tunnels to move weapons and sneak into Israel while their people starve, knock yourself out. Hamas has taken the hundreds of millions of dollars sent for the Palestinian people and used it to spread death and destruction - and you want to blame Israel for that. Whatever.

[Capt. Obvious]

71. You want to put words in my mouth to win an internet arguement

knock yourself out. Whatever.

[leftynyc]

74. Are you going to try

and say you weren't implying the Israeli's were.....actually I'm not sure what you were trying to say other than they weren't cowering in terror. Beats dancing in celebration and handing out candy.

[Violet_Crumble]

79. There's no implying required. They were celebrating the bombing of Gaza...

Israelis cheer and celebrate as missiles hit Gaza, live on CNN

A live CNN video of Israeli crowds cheering as missiles struck Gaza late on Thursday has emerged, causing outrage across the world.

Diana Magnay, an international correspondent for the American news network was in the midst of reporting live on an Israeli hilltop close to the Gaza border while crowds whistled, cheered and applauded as missiles hit the besieged Strip.

“Now the sound you are hearing here – we’re on the top of the hill and I think you can probably see there are lots of Israelis gathered around cheering when they see these kinds of Israeli strikes,” Magnay described during the report.

http://www.albawaba.com/editorchoice/diana-magnay-cnn-israel-591211

[DisgustipatedinCA]

84. Their money? I don't think so.

[leftynyc]

87. Both sides have benefitted

greatly from the US. One side decided to use the money to better the lives of their citizens and the other bought weapons and dug tunnels and let their people starve. I know the truth hurts.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

91. The truth hurts?

You don't know the first thing about appropriations from the United States Congress. This isn't window shopping. Children are being slaughtered by the score. Your celebration is unseemly, and that's a charitable assessment.

[flamingdem]

33. I tend to agree with you

and I feel sick seeing the spew on the nightly news.

[LittleBlue]

15. No kidding

Krauthammer in GD?

Inb4 the hide

[Electric Monk]

26. Notice his resemblence to The Ugly Duchess painted by the Flemish artist Quentin Matsys around 1513?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_Duchess



Krauthammer could've posed for it

[MFM008]

39. lol

[LittleBlue]

41. OMG

Clearly an ancestor of his

[delrem]

114. !!! uncanny!

So true to life I thought it was photoshopped!

[bravenak]

46. I have noticed lots of righty stuff in GD lately.

I wish we could not do Ck. My eyes burn and itch from reading him. Like i got an eye std.

[Marr]

37. Yeah, it's odd-- oppose NSA domestic spying and the same people will call you a Paulite, because

you agree on an issue.

But they can align with Charles f'ing Krauthammer on foreign policy, and it means nothing at all.

[bravenak]

47. That IS crazy.

I will never make fun of Greenwald again. He has been awesome through this.

[Bonobo]

6. Those facts are debatable but SHOULD be debated.

1) Israel accepts an Egyptian-proposed Gaza cease-fire; Hamas keeps firing.
This is a tough one to deny. I say true.

2) Hamas deliberately aims rockets at civilians; Israel painstakingly tries to avoid them, actually telephoning civilians in the area and dropping warning charges, so-called roof knocking.
This is a fact although there is undoubtedly some killing of civilians that may be a little less scrupulous than this. The NYT had an article on a bombing of a shelter where Palestinians were urged to go. Generally though I think they are trying hard not to kill civilians or the numbers would be much higher. For reference, see the number of civilians US killed in one week of their "war" with Iraq.

3) "We're using missile defense to protect our civilians, and they're using their civilians to protect their missiles."
This is the most unfair of all the statements. Israel has the high-tech underwritten in large part by the US. Palestinians have none. As for them using human shields, I think this is largely just the result of the fact that there is nowhere else to go combined with human nature. Of course you will try to hide and not be caught.

[RobertEarl]

8. Thanks Bonobo

You know what Israel reminds me of? The kid who used a shotgun to end an argument. "He hit me first, mommy, so i blew him away"

[killbotfactory]

10. If Iran and Hamas proposed a cease-fire would Isreal stop firing? nt

[Bonobo]

11. It would depend on the terms of the ceasefire. nt

[Puzzledtraveller]

25. It's no use Bonobo.

The feeling and sense of being morally superior is very hard to resist and the Israeli Palestinian conflict is a no brainer and veritable freebie for a great many, here and everywhere. What it requires is what troubles me the most, the ability to completely rewrite history in ones own mind, that is, if they know anything about it in the first place as a large portion I believe are only following the herd. Hating on Israel is all the rage afterall.

[Gravitycollapse]

28. It is extremely unlikely that Israeli would support a Hamas-Iran negotiated ceasefire.

"It would depend on the terms of the ceasefire." - Right, keep believing that.

[Bonobo]

30. Yeah, you're right. Negotiations have NOTHING to do with the terms of the agreement being discussed.

[Gravitycollapse]

31. Ceasefire negotiations logically must be between fighting factions.

If factions A and B are fighting, negotiating a deal between faction A and non-fighting faction C, both avowed enemies of faction B, makes almost no sense at all.

Hamas wants to be at the negotiating table. They don't want two avowed enemies making decisions for them.

That shouldn't be too difficult for anyone too understand, especially for you because I know you're not an idiot.

[Bonobo]

32. I misread your post. I thought it said Hamas-Israel negotiated ceasefire.

Sorry, it is 95 degrees here and I think I am having a mild heatstroke. I should take a shower before I die.

[Petrushka]

101. Re: Hamas' terms for a ten-year ceasefire (from an Egyptian's viewpoint) --->

[cpwm17]

17. Hamas already did offer a cease-fire and ten year truce

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/deafening-silence-proposal.html

The main demands of this proposal revolve around lifting the Israeli siege in Gaza through the opening of its borders with Israel to commerce and people, the establishment of an international seaport and airport under U.N. supervision, the expansion of the permitted fishing zone in the Gaza sea to 10 kilometers, and the revitalization of Gaza industrial zone. None of these demands is new. The United Nations among others have repeatedly demanded the lifting of the siege, which is illegal under international law, as a necessary condition to end the dire humanitarian situation in the Strip. The facilitation of movement of goods and people between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip had already been stipulated in the Agreement on Movement and Access (AMA) signed between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority in 2005. Even the construction of a port and the possibility of an airport in Gaza had already been stipulated in the AMA, though the actual implementation never followed. The requested increase of the permitted fishing zone is less than what envisaged in the 1994 Oslo Agreements and it was already part of the 2012 ceasefire understanding. Unhindered fishermen’s access to the sea, without fear of being shot or arrested and having boats and nets confiscated by Israeli patrols is essential to the 3000 Gaza fishermen struggling to survive today by fishing in a limited area which is overfished and heavily polluted. The revitalization of the Gaza industrial zone, which has progressively been dismantled since the 2005 disengagement and by continuous military operations, was already considered a crucial Palestinian interest at the time of the 2005 Disengagement.

Israel prefers to maintain the illegal siege.

[rateyes]

119. +1000

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

128. I don't think 2 is true.

Google up pictures of the rockets Hamas is shooting off.

'Aiming' means 'point in a general direction'. There really is no more 'aiming' than that. They can't target anything, just aim them towards Israel as a whole and set them off. So I have to put some Pinocchios on that one until Hamas actually is firing rockets that allow them to target anything. And they've killed what, one person? So the claim that they're 'targeting civilians' falls flat.

Israel, on the other hand, is firing far higher tech missiles that actually are able to be carefully targeted, and are still slaughtering Palestinian civilians by the hundreds. So, given that the only ones doing any 'targeting' are Israel, and the only one with lots of civilians dying is Palestine, the claim that Israel isn't 'targeting civilians' also falls flat.

'Painstakingly avoiding aiming rockets at civilians' is a joke. And what does 'roof-knocking do'? If there was some Hamas type firing rockets from a building, you can bet they fired their rocket and immediately left, long before the returning missiles arrive. The only ones still around to be killed or have their homes and property destroyed are civilians.

Now you can make the claim that Hamas does that to 'up the body count' by "forcing" the IDF to destroy that building. But again, that falls flat. Because that implies that you (and the IDF) know exactly what is going on and are in collusion with Hamas. If you know that they're trying to 'up the body count' and create more hatred, and you go ahead and do exactly what you want, then you're helping Hamas, even when you know in advance that's exactly what will happen.

So Hamas is working to stir up hatred, and Likud is working to stir up hatred. Because both gain more power the higher the hate gets.

[killbotfactory]

9. Why didn't the IDF destroy the tunnels from the Israeli side?

Why was invading Gaza necessary?

[Bonobo]

13. To collect the rockets, no? nt

[Purveyor]

16. K&R for exposure and poster comments alone. Good job!~ eom

[whatchamacallit]

18. Cool, foxnewsunderground! n/t

[Aerows]

19. I just wish people

would stop killing each other.

[hrmjustin]

20. Krauthammer! Really!

[Aerows]

23. I don't know, hrmjustin

what to say about this. It's disgusting. I just wish people would stop killing each other.

Is that too much to ask of this world? That people quit trying to get over on each other, to treat each other kindly, and quit trying to get revenge?

[defacto7]

34. You're a good person, Aerows.

The world needs more like you. It should be that simple but we know it's not.

[hrmjustin]

83. The whole thing is a mess and so sad.

[Aerows]

108. Indeed it is. n/t

[egduj]

21. K&R

Unfortunately, I can only do it once.

[Logical]

22. Nice hit and run! nt

[Bjorn Against]

24. Maybe you can tell us what Dick Cheney has to say next

Of course Cheney's views are pretty much identical to Krauthammer's so you pretty much already are providing us with the Cheney perspective.

What a shock that one of DU's gun enthusiasts would be a fan of Krauthammer.

[Aerows]

43. Cheney sickens normal people

He's so dead in his heart that even it gave out. I have no respect whatsoever for the man and any that support him. He's disgusting and will go to his grave a murderer.

[bravenak]

48. I agree.

He's probably loving this.

[Gravitycollapse]

27. Yes, the Israel-Egypt ceasefire constructed by two enemies of Hamas, without their consultation.

And anyone wonders why they rejected the conditions? They were never asked to participate.

If you want to negotiate a ceasefire, you should logically do it with the group you are fighting against. Even if that requires a mediator, the fighting factions must be at the negotiating table. Otherwise, what is drawn up becomes irrelevant. As can be seen in this conflict.

[Electric Monk]

29. Let's negotiate a ceasefire for oneshooter. I propose he not be let out of the Gungeon ever again.

Taking FAUX's Krauthammer seriously on any issue is a crime against rational people and should not be forgiven. Do you feel the same? Then let it be so, and if he shows his face again we'll both slap him with rotten trout, metaphorically of course. Deal?

[Liberal_Dog]

98. Most People Probably Think That Hamas And Egypt Are Buddies

Even thought that is nowhere close to being true.

[Marr]

35. Here's the real difference between them:

One is a heavily militarized, modern state. The other is a collection of dispossessed and marginalized civilians.

If you want to tell me the Palestinians aren't white hat-wearing good guys, fine-- I won't argue. But don't tell me the Israelis are.

[defacto7]

36. This is Israel vs. Hamas

not Israel vs. Palestinians. Before this crisis Hamas was a minority in power. I venture to say they are not the minority now and the extremists of Islam will multiply and Palestinians who desire peace will diminish.

Revenge and violence is a multiplier either way.

[sabrina 1]

38. 'Here's the difference between us, we're using missile defense to protect our civilians,

and their using their civilians to protect missiles'.

Do you really not know that NO ONE is buying this garbage anymore?

It looks like Hamas is better at NOT hitting civilians than they are.

It's like someone going into a house to rob it, being surprised by members of the family, killing them, then later stating that they had taken great care to avoid robbing the house while someone home but it wasn't there fault that someone was there. It boggles the mind trying to get around this nonsensical excuse they keep using for the killing of over 100 children.

Maybe the solution might be to stop the occupation of Gaza? Did they ever think of that, that when you imprison an entire population and collectively punish them, you should consider yourself lucky that all they are doing in response is to fire what appear to be some pretty ineffective rockets.

[Maedhros]

42. This conflict is the inevitable outcome of a political situation in which an entire sector of the

population has no effective recourse for the wrongs done against them. In a civilized society if the government bulldozed an entire neighborhood, forcibly evicted the inhabitants and then built brand new homes for settlers from another sector, then the aggrieved parties could make their case in court and likely win if their cause was indeed just.

The Palestinians have no such recourse. The Israeli Government ignores their claims. The U.S. vetoes any attempt by Palestine to gain recognition by the U.N. They have been denied the opportunity to win their case through diplomatic or legal channels, so they resort to asymmetric warfare. Taking someone's land is an exceptionally provocative action.

I'm not saying that Palestinian violence is justified, but that it is an expected outcome from the conditions created for them by the Israeli Government.

[freshwest]

44. While some points are worth arguing, Krauthammer, really? Unhinged Obama hater, totally twisted.

Has the credibility of Rush, Cheney or Cruz. No Rec.

[mwrguy]

50. Right-wing apologists for Israel should fuck off

How's that?

[KG]

52. piss on charles Krauthammer

[intaglio]

54. Right back at you

Israel should start by accepting UN res 194 and following it you know it is only 68 years of non-compliance. They might also start demonstrating good faith by allowing people out of the group of concentration camps that is Gaza.

[AngryOldDem]

55. Israel is now bombing hospitals to rubble?

True? Or otherwise?

[HooptieWagon]

99. 3 of them, so far.

And ambulances are being targeted. Not to mention the UN school that was just bombed.

[politicman]

58. israeli apologists show how morally bankrupt they are.

WOW, this place really is infested with Israeli apologists.

The thing with Israeli apologists is that they will discard their morals, discards their intelligent thinking and discard their fairness, all in the name of defending Israel no matter what it does.

In these apologists eyes, Israel can never do anything wrong.

When Israel blockades and lays siege to 1.8 million Palestinians, these apologists excuse it.
When Israel limits the amount of food and industrial material allowed in Gaza, these apologists excuse it.
When Israel demolishes Palestinian homes and orchids in acts of mass punishment, these apologists excuse it.
When Israel violates international law by building settlements on land that it confiscate, these apologists excuse it.
When Israeli ministers make outrageous comments after they blast Iran for making similar comments, these apologists excuse it.
When Israel deliberately targets hospitals and schools, these apologists excuse it.
When Israel targets reporters, these apologists excuse it.
When Israel shoots shells at 4 children playing soccer on a beach, these apologists excuse it.
When Israel kills 700 people in 2 weeks (80% of them civilians, women and children), these apologists excuse it.

Yet after excusing all of the above, these apologists act outraged that the Palestinians dare to defend themselves.
Yet after excusing the use of massive Israeli bombs on civilian population, these apologists want sympathy when Hamas launches small rudimentary rockets at Israel

These apologists are disgusting, and these conflict is now showing them for who they are, morally bankrupt individuals.

[sendero]

60. Every now and then...

.... there comes a conflict in which it is impossible to takes sides. They are both repugnant. A pox on both their houses.

[randome]

70. Anyone who can't see that is willfully blind.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

[hobbit709]

73. Personally, to quote Shakespeare "A plague on both your houses"

Neither side has clean hands.

[Violet_Crumble]

76. So Krauthammer thinks anyone who criticises Israel is a Hamas apologist...

The stupid runs deep in that one...

[bullwinkle428]

80. Same mentality that was used to call all of us opposed to

military action in Iraq "Saddam apologists". I'll never let those people forget that.

[Violet_Crumble]

81. It is a very similar mentality n/t

[Pholus]

127. Good observation.

Both seem to have read their Goering:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

[dembotoz]

77. updated total 738 palistinians dead--that is like 3 plan loads....

[G_j]

82. there is zero excuse for killing civilians by anyone, any time, anywhere.

end of story.

[HooptieWagon]

88. Horseshit.

Hamas has killed 3 Israeli civilians, and over 35 IDF. If they're targeting Israeli civilians, they're really bad at it.
OTOH, IDF has killed about 600 Palestinians, the majority are women and children. Only 75 confirmed militants, another 70 or so undetermined.
So, in summary, fewer than 10% of Israeli deaths are civilians. At least 75% of Palestinian deaths are civilians. Quite obvious who is targeting civilians, and who the war criminals are.

[TheKentuckian]

96. Dim. Your measuring stick is missing combined with good and expensive defense being effective

So, to be "fair" Israel must allow more of their civilians to be killed or injured to "justify" attempting to remove a constant threat? No sweat, just keep making the runs to the bomb shelters, maintain the missile defense, and when your people do get killed or hurt just write it off and hope the suicide bombers and kidnappers don't get through.

If you consistently miss, don't expect me to wait to shoot back until you hit me or to give the first thought that you are using a zip gun. I am going to do my best to end your threat.

Also, your numbers are false on both sides, this didn't just start. The current hard line government was elected as a response to some pretty severe terrorism. No population is going to just sit as they face such attacks, consider our own reactions to terrorism under much less constant threat. Hell, Iraq didn't even attack us and we unleashed Hell there, we have occupied and killed in Afghanistan for a decade plus, we are in Yemen, we helped destabilize Libya, we are in Pakistan daily, we have violated our own Constitution, we spy and collect the private data of the entire world.

I'd argue that Israel is more restrained than we'd be in anything like a similar situation and Hamas isn't peacefully firing warning shots but is rather taking indiscriminate shots with full intent to murder and kill civilians and poor marksmanship combined with good defense does not mitigate that relentless intent.

There is no moral requirement for people to just accept bombardment as a part of life. How many days a week are you okay with herding your children into bomb shelters? My answer is pretty much zero, yours may be some other number but I don't really buy it.

[Marrah_G]

92. They are otherwise

[LannyDeVaney]

94. They bombed a UN-run school for refugees ...

Is that what you call "painstakingly" trying to avoid them?

And I'm sorry but I'll need a bit better explanation than a quote from the Israeli prime minister. The difference between them is the US is funding the death on one side, while ignoring the death on the other.

[abelenkpe]

102. Krauthammer, really?

I'm sure a diatribe from him will sway many on DU to accept your point of view.

[oneshooter]

104. Over 100 replies................

and NOBODY has answered the only question asked.

AMAZING.

[Electric Monk]

109. It has been addressed. It's an ignorant RW biased question, not based in reality. nt

[LittleBlue]

117. No one cares what Charles Krauthammer thinks

If you were really seeking an answer, don't post questions by right wing shills.

[samsingh]

105. kick

[LWolf]

112. Is this still DU,

or did I actually log in to the Discussionist where it's expected and okay to see right wing posts?

"Moral Clarity" in the middle east? I don't think so.

And, for the record, I am not an "apologist for Hamas." I'm also not an apologist for nor a defender of Israel.

[kentuck]

113. Not working very well, is it??

"We're using missile defense to protect our civilians, and they're using their civilians to protect their missiles."

[DeSwiss]

115. What facts?

- When the hell did Charles Krauthammer ever learn about FACTS!?!?!

[oneshooter]

118. So if the facts presented in the article are wrong.....................

What is the truth?

[RobertEarl]

121. Try this for a fact.

A report issued by the authoritative the “Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center” (ITIC), a private Israeli think tank that “has close ties with the country’s military leadership,” unintentionally debunked the Senate resolution more than a week before its unanimous consent vote in the Senate. The weekly ITIC reports regarding rocket fire are frequently quoted on the Israeli government’s own web site.

The ITIC July 8, 2014 report,“News of Terrorism and the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (July 2 – 8, 2014),” states: “For the first time since Operation Pillar of Defense , Hamas participated in and claimed responsibility for rocket fire .”

The July 8 ITIC report also divulged why Hamas launched its first rocket fire at Israel in more than 19 months on July 7: On that night Israeli forces had bombed and killed 6 Hamas members in Gaza. The ITIC report includes a picture of the six Hamas members. Thus, a report from an authoritative Israeli source described the provocation for the resumption of rocket fire: Hamas rocket fire began only after Israeli forces had engaged in nearly a month of military operations in violation of the ceasefire agreement and had killed 6 Hamas members in Gaza.

*******************

DU link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025287123

[Spazito]

122. Well, for starters, shelling a school being used as a shelter or a hospital treating...

those wounded by Isreali shells is NOT defending Israeli citizens, it is killing innocent Palestinian civilians. If you equate defending Israeli citizens with killing Palestinian innocent civilians the argument put forth by Krauthammer and, it seems supported by you, is beyond obscene, imo.

[whereisjustice]

120. Krauthammer didn't defend Snowden, didn't slam privatization, didn't take social sec. off the table

didn't demand tax cuts for the rich, didn't rail against record low wages in a time with record corporate profits, didn't whine about torture, Bush or Cheney, didn't say anything negative about trade agreements killing millions of jobs, didn't demand action for global warming.

Poor man. All that negativity and he's just misunderstood, reaching out from the political center to defend one of our most defenseless allies.

So... do not call Krauthammer a flaming piece of self serving shit, a pompous, servile, parasitic bootlicker and apologist for the corrupt ruling class in America. Please, don't do that.

It might scare away regular columns from other like-minded moderates and independents such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.

"What exactly is the humanitarian crisis that the flotilla was actually addressing? There is none. There's no one starving in Gaza...." Charles (The Sour) Krauthammer

[LeftishBrit]

124. Fuck Hamas. Fuck Likud, and their even viler coalition partner Jewish Home. Fuck Krauthammer and all

RW journalists.

[Capt. Obvious]

125. The rec list is handy for updating ignore lists.

Now for the OP.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

126. Rocket firing Hamas militants are idiotic criminals who need to be arrested, tried, and

thrown in jail.

And ditto for Israelis firing missiles that kill Palestinian civilians who have nothing to do with Hamas.

The Israeli prime minister is not offering a 'fact', he's offering a self-serving piece opinion as demagoguery.