This is Bullshit. Kansas Supreme court is a JOKE

[demtenjeep]

http://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/carr-brothers-appeal-decision-expected-friday/27130132


(img1)12.12.13 Carr brothers will try to overturn convictions



WICHITA, Kan. -
The Kansas Supreme Court has overturned the death sentences against Jonathan and Reginald Carr. The two were convicted of killing five people in Wichita in 2000.

We will post details on the ruling, which just came down this morning, shortly.




these boys went on a horrendous torture killing spree and got what they deserved. Now they may get new trials and put the one survivor (who they blessed with a permanent STD as a reminder) through this again. When they left her for dead after shooting her execution style along with 4 other people in the dead of winter she ran naked for miles to get help. That she will have to relive it all is bullshit

[kcr]

1. Reversing a death penalty sentence is not easy

I don't know anything about this particular case, but the mere fact it was overturned strongly suggests that there was good reason to do so.

[pipoman]

21. Should read about it...they are infamous. ..in Wichita second only to BTK

[kcr]

22. That would explain the outrage

It's a hard pill to swallow that everyone deserves a fair trial when it involves heinous crimes.

[randys1]

2. Eliminate the death penalty, like civilized human beings.

If this was overturned because they were getting death, then see how that resolves the problem.

[unblock]

3. i'm not seeing the reasoning in the article. did they find a procedural error in the original trial?

[demtenjeep]

5. breaking media says because they were not tried in different trials

we don't know all of the details yet

[Eric J in MN]

13. They should have gotten separate trials. NT

NT

[demtenjeep]

4. this is what they did

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita_Massacre

The Carr brothers, 22-year-old Reginald and 20-year-old Jonathan, already had lengthy criminal records when they began their spree.[4] On December 8, 2000, having recently arrived in Wichita, they committed armed robbery against 23-year-old assistant baseball coach, Andrew Schreiber. Three days later, they shot and mortally wounded 55-year-old cellist and librarian, Ann Walenta, as she tried to escape from them in her car; she died three days later.

Their crime spree culminated on December 14, when they invaded a home and subjected five young men and women to robbery, sexual abuse, and murder. The brothers broke into a house chosen nearly at random where Brad Heyka, Heather Muller, Aaron Sander, Jason Befort and his girlfriend, a young woman identified as 'H.G.', all in their twenties, were spending the night. They initially scoured the house for valuables. In a much-remarked point of tragedy, H.G. learned of Befort's intent to propose marriage when the Carrs, by chance, discovered the engagement ring hidden in a can of popcorn. After the search, the Carrs forced their hostages to strip naked, bound and detained them, and subjected them to various forms of sexual humiliation, including rape and oral sex.[4] They also forced the men to engage in sexual acts with the women, and the women with each other. They then drove the victims to ATMs to empty their bank accounts, before finally taking them to a snowy deserted soccer complex on the outskirts of town and shooting them execution-style in the backs of their heads, leaving them for dead. The Carr brothers then drove Befort's truck over the bodies.

They returned to the house to ransack it for more valuables, and in the process killed Nikki, H.G.'s muzzled dog. H.G. survived because her metal barrette deflected the bullet, and ran naked for more than a mile in freezing weather to report the attack and seek medical attention.

The Carr brothers, who took few precautions, were captured by the police the next day, and Reginald was identified by Schreiber and the dying Walenta. The District Attorney stated that the Carrs' motive was robbery.[5]

[tammywammy]

6. I hope you're not basing your declaration off this article

Which doesn't give any information on why they overturned it. Best to wait for facts instead of knee jerking.

I'm interested to see the reasoning. I mean would you call it a joke if it was overturned for prosecutorial misconduct?

[demtenjeep]

7. I am basing it off of my own outrage

I know some of the family

[tammywammy]

8. It is awful.

But at the same time all people deserve fair trials. I wouldn't think the Kansas Supreme Court is full justices just biting at the chance to over turn this.

[demtenjeep]

10. they already had one appeal in 2004 and their sentence was upheld

if they reduce the death sentence to life in prison, I am okay with that but if this causes a retrial, that I am not okay with.

I also know from sources that work at the prison they are at they have shown no remorse and are constantly in trouble for violations in prison.

[unblock]

9. well that's a good reason to jump to conclusions and do away with that whole fair trial thing.

the accusations are certainly heinous and i feel your pain and that of the family, but i would hope you would want the case to be handled thoroughly and properly. again, i don't know the reasoning, but it sounds like the trial was not handled properly.

if so, why wouldn't you direct your anger instead at the original trial court, or whoever was responsible for delivering a conviction that could be overturned?

[demtenjeep]

11. the only fact we have right now is that they are saying there should have been two different trials

the crime was committed in partnership?

[tammywammy]

14. If that's the only fact you have.

Maybe you should wait until you read the whole ruling.

[demtenjeep]

16. I am just outraged

as are a lot of others

we are allowed that.

[oldhippie]

33. And outrage trumps ...

... logic and reason.

[demtenjeep]

12. The survivor is once again terrified AND her husband

he was also a victim of this massacre. They high-jacked his vehicle the night before and almost murdered him.

He and the survivor grew close from the mess and a few years later ended up getting married. They did not know each other before the trial.


Now he says if they have a re-trial he will put a stop to it. They do not need this!!!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

26. Why are they terrified?

According to the linked article

Each still has one Capital Murder and a Felony Murder conviction against them, so they will still spend the rest of their lives in prison no matter what.

The Supreme Court made the ruling because jury instructions on the sex crime-based murder charges and the Capital Murder charges were duplicated.

They're going to spend their lives in prison no matter what.

I'd be mad, but if the torture/killers are already in prison with no chance of parole, what is there to be terrified of?

[Lancero]

27. Ever hear of PTSD?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

34. Sure.

And it doesn't make much sense that they would be 'once again terrified' by this decision. The decision isn't freeing the killers, so if they already had PTSD, I don't see anything here that would exacerbate it. If they were terrified, they would simply continue to be terrified, not 'once again be'.

[MoonRiver]

38. Well, PTSD does not elicit rational reactions.

For instance, who "in their right mind" would grab a gun and start randomly shooting at the sound of a car backfiring? Soldiers coming back from war, suffering from PTSD, is who.

[DiverDave]

36. Hard to see an error.

"sex crime-based murder charges and the Capital Murder charges were duplicated"

I understand the I's have to be dotted, and the t's crossed, but FFS this is just short of insane.

I'm glad these wastes of air are going to be in jail forever.

It's horrific, and gut wrenching what the familys have went through.

[TreasonousBastard]

15. Scumbags like these two test...

those of us who are against capital punishment. And it's much worse for those of you who know the victims, whichever side of that you're on.

But, the entire point of a legal system is to keep our emotions out of justice because when we become personally involved, justice can too easily become vengeance.

[unblock]

18. doesn't test my opposition to the death penalty in the slightest because

my opposition to death penalty has nothing to do with the victim or the severity of the crime.

my opposition has everything to do with not wanting to empower any government the right to kill its subjects.

[TreasonousBastard]

19. Nor mine, but...

it can raise interesting discussions about how human do you have to be to be considered human and not vermin for extermination.

Perhaps I should have been clearer that it doesn't necessarily test one's opposition to capital punishment, but can test one's defense of that position.

[bowens43]

17. death penalty should be abolished , state sanction murder is still murder

[DiverDave]

37. Yep, and

I dont want anyone killed in my name.

[CBGLuthier]

20. Are we not a nation of laws? The particulars of no case matter if the law is not followed

and justice secured.

All the desire for revenge in the world adds up to nothing if there are flaws in the procedure.

[Ilsa]

23. I hope they both get two-hour executions after

what they did to those victims.

Sure, go through the motions, find them guilty, and rid the planet of their existence before they murder someone in prison.

[demtenjeep]

24. I hear they are smug little shits in prison

constantly getting violations and never remorseful.

When it is cut and dried like this case is I say use the Death penalty. In this I will not apologize or be ashamed of.

[demtenjeep]

25. oh and you know how they killed the dog? They played GOLF with it as the golfball

these two pieces of flesh are disgusting

it all started when the older brother was mistakenly let out of prison early =another judicial mistake

[MoonRiver]

29. They are repulsive sociopaths, who should never again see the outside of a prison cell.

But, imho, exercising the dp is putting society on the level of the cold-blooded killers we abhor. I live in KS and am well aware of this horrendous case. I want those two fiends to be put away for life. KS has the dp, so if the next trial results in that same verdict so be it. But let's not behave like barbarians. If we going to execute people, it should be done humanely.

[Ilsa]

32. I am generally against it, but these two rapists/torturers/

Murderers make the exception. There is no question that they are guilty and cannot be rehabilitated. I see no reason for anyone to have to pay for their upkeep, even if in solitary. Send them to Hell where they belong.

[jberryhill]

28. So the manner in which people are tried and convicted is irrelevant?

I guess in situations where someone has committed a terrible crime, we should just dispense with the Constitutional protections against government power entirely.

[demtenjeep]

30. the reason they have given was the trial should have been separate

I don't agree. They did it together

[jberryhill]

31. Whether you agree or not is pretty irrelevant

What part of the reasoning of the decision, which you have not posted, do you disagree with in particular?

[REP]

35. Lock those fuckers in solitary forever

It's less humane than just bashing their brains in with a rock, which is all the dignity they deserve. Fuck the Carr brothers. I wish I believed in hell for contemptible shirt stains like them.