Need help. I have a number of questions about the Israel/Gaza conflict.

[Viva_Daddy]

Israel has the Iron Dome anti-missile system, an army, a navy, an air force, and nukes. Hamas has none of these, yet Israel is TERRIFIED of Hamas. Why is that?

Israel is known to have dozens of nukes, but if even one neighboring Arab country tries to have even one nuke, Israel (and the West) go ballistic. Why is that?

Why aren’t Hamas tunnels dealt with as a police matter from inside Israel (like Egypt did) instead of as a reason to bomb whole neighborhoods in Gaza?

Israel says it doesn’t target civilians, but if it targets schools, hospitals and mosques where civilians are known to congregate, isn’t that targeting civilians?

How am I, as an American, supposed to feel about Israel bombing Palestinians who are calling out, “Give me liberty or give me death” like Patrick Henry did?

Thankfully, there have only been 3 Israeli civilian casualties so far. Most of the Israeli dead (45) are soldiers, and this only AFTER they invaded Gaza. On the Gaza side, however, there are hundreds of casualties, most of whom (75% according to Israel) were civilians.

Considering that, over the last 60 years, Israel has only GAINED land and Palestinians have only LOST land, who is the real aggressor here?

These questions haunt me, as an American and as a human being.

[morningfog]

1. You are asking the right questions. Israel is committing war crimes daily.

[BlindTiresias]

2. Religious fundamentalism and hard right politics

People like to talk about Israel being a secular democracy but it is far from it, even in terms of overall level of democracy it denies half the individuals franchise. Turkey, for example, is far more democratic than Israel and manages to reign in the religious fundamentalists much more effectively.

[PDJane]

6. theocracy and democracy are uneasy bedfellows, headed for divorce from "I do."

[PDJane]

5. That is a self-serving lie.

Last edited Tue Jul 29, 2014, 08:47 PM - Edit history (1)

"Hamas hadn't fired a single rocket since the 2012 Gaza conflict, and had largely suppressed fire by smaller jihadi groups. Rocket firings, averaging 240 per month in 2007, dropped to five per month in 2013."
http://forward.com/articles/201764/how-politics-and-lies-triggered-an-unintended-war/?p=all

"Fewer rockets were fired from Gaza in 2013 than in any year since 2001, and nearly all those that were fired between the November 2012 ceasefire and the current crisis were launched by groups other than Hamas; the Israeli security establishment testified to the aggressive anti-rocket efforts made by the new police force Hamas established specifically for that purpose.. As Israel (and Egypt) rolled back the 2012 understandings - some of which were implemented spottily at best - so too did Hamas roll back its anti rocket efforts."

http://www.crisisgroup.org/~/media/Files/Middle%20East%20North%20Africa/Israel%20Palestine/b039-gaza-and-israel-new-obstacles-new-solutions.pdf

[PDJane]

4. Ah, well...........

Israel isn't terrified of Hamas. If Hamas didn't exist, Israel would have to invent them. They are the excuse for ongoing hostilities; the reason is the Palestinian Unity government. Israel doesn't want that to happen, and that ....and the gas offshore...are the reason for the current hostilities.

Israel wants to hold the nuclear balance of power. BTW, Israel is not a signatory to the NNPT. Iran, on the other hand, is. Iran's Islamic council has stated, by the way, that a nuclear weapon is un-Islamic, and that they will not develop one.

Israel will take any excuse to bomb Gaza. The tunnels are Gaza's lifeline, the only way to get goods and services past the blockade. That Hamas uses them to get materials is neither here nor there.

Yes. Targeting civilian infrastructure is a war crime, and Israel has signed the Geneva convention. This is genocide.

Israel is the aggressor, and has been since the 1948 war. The Palestinians are an occupied people, and this is not war. It is a slow genocide, and it is wrong.

[econoclast]

7. The myth of 'Palestine'

First of all ...
There never was a "Palestine". Ever.

That portion of the world was part of one empire or another for 2000 years. Egypt Rome Byzantium Moslem. Most recently it was part of the Ottoman Empire and after WWI passed to the British as a Protectorate. The Brits re-established some of the old nation states Egypt. Syria etc. and created others out of whole cloth ...Iran, Iraq etc.

Lastly was the Jerusalem surroundings. Which was to become 2 States. Palestine and Israel. But the Palestinians gambled on the whole thing and LOST. Sad. But nobody to blame but themselves.

1). Under the Ottoman Empire it was illegal to sell land to Jews. Small wonder then that Jews only owned a small % of the land prior to 1947

2). Under the UN Partition all Palestinians had to do was sit down, shut up, and play nice and they would have had a legal, recognized State of their very own. But no. They wanted not half a loaf but the whole thing. In 1948, the Arab League attacked the nascent Israel on behalf of the Palestinians promising to destroy it completely. The Palestinians could have the whole loaf!!! But it didn't work out that way. The Arabs lost.

3). After the 1948/49 war. Jordanian forces were on land that was supposed to have been Palestine under the UN Partition. What we call the West Bank. Egyptian forces were also on land that was supposed to have been Palestine under the UN Partition. The Gaza Strip. Egypt and Jordan could have granted those landsto the Palestinians to become a state of Palestine. But no. Egypt and Jordan annexed those lands. They said, in effect ... Palestine? Never heard of it. This is now part of Jordan. This is now part of Egypt.

4). After the 1967 war when Arab countries again tried to wipe Israel off the map but instead got their asses kicked, Israeli forces controlled the West Bank and Gaza Strip .... Remember these lands were now part of Jordan and Egypt - not Palestine - and had been for almost 20 years.

5). Same in 1972 when for a third time an attempt was made to wipe Israel iff the map.

Hamas, the elected government of Gaza is a recognized terrorist organization! Their founding principle is the eradication of Israel. They got elected because a majority of Gazans AGREE with them. Fatah lost because they were not radical enough. Not enough dead Jews apparently.

Imagine .... The same people have tried in broad daylight to kill you and your family three times. They still freely and publicly say they want to kill you. But on one of their attempts to kill you one of them dropped their wallet. Now they want the wallet back. You giving it to them?

[frylock]

8. so fuck all those dead kids

FIFY

[treestar]

12. Hell with that excuse

People lived there. The British should have done a better job of dealing with that fact, rather than just telling them their home now belonged to "Israel."

[Karmadillo]

9. Kick

[Comrade Grumpy]

10. Good questions. I'd like to see our elected officials take a shot at answering them.

[Uncle Joe]

13. You ask good questions, Viva_Daddy.

Thanks for the thread.